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Does an AR-15's accuracy depend on the shooter?

The_New_Sniper

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 6, 2014
46
0
NJ
I got into an argument with a range buddy, and I'm here to ask you guys a question.

I said that any non-custom precision AR-15 (colt, LWRC m6a2, rock river ar-15, PSA ar-15) with the same accessories (rail system, trigger, stock, etc) with different barrels (each to one's brand, lwrc, colt, psa etc) will shoot almost the same (we're not talking about sub-MOA, just 12 inch plates).

He disagreed and told me colt is better (I had to laugh). I told him people with the same training and different brand guns will shoot practically the same (excluding human error with some shots).

Can anyone settle this stupid argument?

________

Another question, is it possible to build a precision piston ar-15?
 
I want the number 4 please. 1 large popcorn and super sized soft drink.
You will understand soon enough

Direct impingement vs piston right? We're not shooting sub-moa or precision, so it won't matter. We're just talking about shooting steel targets, and not talking about reliability. Just hitting some targets at 300-400 yards.
 
Any good shooter with a mediocre rifle can out perform a mediocre shooter with even a GREAT rifle. This is true, no mater what kind or rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc.

A 12 inch plate placed at 600 yards is 2 MOA. Just about every high power rifle from the factory will hold 2 MOA assuming its a caliber that will go that far.

The AR is one of the simplest rifles to accurize, a good barrel, a free float hanguard, and an eraser stuck in the back so it doesnt rattle and you are done.
(before anyone comments on this, I made distinguished with an AR back when M14s were still king. The first year I went to Camp Perry, there were a total of 10 ARs and 2990 M14s)

Rails, stock, and even trigger, do NOT make the rifle shoot better, they make it easier for the SHOOTER to shoot better.

Now I am going to go get my rain coat for when the pop corn starts flying... ;)
 
Sigh...Speak...please pass the butter and salt when you have a second.


Can anyone settle this stupid argument?

________

Another question, is it possible to build a precision piston ar-15?

BARFCOM is your real friend...plenty of folks over there who'll gladly take up this argument and run with it for you ad nauseum. Just be sure you ask about the "Chart" and be sure to explain that you think it is shite and anyone who buys into that crap should be run through and their entrails used as grease for tank treads! ;)

I have to agree with you 100%...it is, in fact, A STUPID ARGUMENT!! ;)

Look...you are attempting an apples to hand grenades comparison. You are BOTH attempting to interject multiple variables into a situation and attempting to reach some pretty wild conclusions therefrom. Just because you are saying that x-rifle similarly equipped to y-rifle is automatically the same or comparable in terms of its performance (accuracy or otherwise) just on those "features" alone is poor logic. The "except the barrel" bit in your post in the most laughable. Barrels, along with quality FF tubes and triggers, are the very foundation for any ARs accuracy potential. Leaving that one variable open for "any old barrel from various mfgs will do" is just plain silly. Now, if you are just talking about any old AR-15 with any old ammo and any random 12" plate at 100, 200, 300yds...then you are at least somewhat correct in your premise that both rifles, if fired by competent semi-auto shooters, will be able to repeatably keep roughly the same percentage of rounds on said target (i.e. - they are "shooting the same" in that narrow sense).

For example, and not to "side" with anyone in your argument, but I have a rock-stock factory Colt 6920MP and a likewise equipped RRA CAR A4 (different twist barrel, but otherwise, at least from your viewpoint, nearly identical in configuration with the exception of the small parts like different mfg mil-spec triggers, pins, springs, buffers, etc.). The Colt will easily and repeatably hold ~1.5MOA with your basic ball ammo and not a whole lot better than that with most Match fodder. The RRA on the other hand doesn't shoot ball worth beans (>2MOA) but with match fodder up to 69gr, will get down into the sub-MOA range (doesn't like the 75gr and 77gr stuff one bit). Now...does that make the RRA a "better" rifle? Well...depends on your definition of "better" and what all you are asking the rifle to do and how long you expect it to do it before something goes tits up.

As for piston vs. DI and whether you can build a "precision piston AR-15"...yes, it can be done. That said, I wouldn't expect you to be able to "build" one in your basement from a piston upper/parts kit, but there are factory production piston operated ARs in existence today capable of predictable, repeatable levels of sub-MOA accuracy, including large-frame ARs as well. Your basic bolt-on kits from any number of different mfgs, well, not so much in my experience with various options over the last 6-7yrs.
 
Haven't you learned anything from the Hide? Anything but GAP and JP are shit and will cost you your life. If you read about anyone having lesser brand ARs and they are still alive, it's only due to luck and religion.
 
Haven't you learned anything from the Hide? Anything but GAP and JP are shit and will cost you your life. If you read about anyone having lesser brand ARs and they are still alive, it's only due to luck and religion.

I've found that even among the "best" manufacturers, the degree of quality of a particular gun can vary wildly. I wouldn't trust any gun from any manufacturer unless I looked it over myself and shot it plenty.
 
Sigh...Speak...please pass the butter and salt when you have a second.




BARFCOM is your real friend...plenty of folks over there who'll gladly take up this argument and run with it for you ad nauseum. Just be sure you ask about the "Chart" and be sure to explain that you think it is shite and anyone who buys into that crap should be run through and their entrails used as grease for tank treads! ;)

I have to agree with you 100%...it is, in fact, A STUPID ARGUMENT!! ;)

Look...you are attempting an apples to hand grenades comparison. You are BOTH attempting to interject multiple variables into a situation and attempting to reach some pretty wild conclusions therefrom. Just because you are saying that x-rifle similarly equipped to y-rifle is automatically the same or comparable in terms of its performance (accuracy or otherwise) just on those "features" alone is poor logic. The "except the barrel" bit in your post in the most laughable. Barrels, along with quality FF tubes and triggers, are the very foundation for any ARs accuracy potential. Leaving that one variable open for "any old barrel from various mfgs will do" is just plain silly. Now, if you are just talking about any old AR-15 with any old ammo and any random 12" plate at 100, 200, 300yds...then you are at least somewhat correct in your premise that both rifles, if fired by competent semi-auto shooters, will be able to repeatably keep roughly the same percentage of rounds on said target (i.e. - they are "shooting the same" in that narrow sense).

For example, and not to "side" with anyone in your argument, but I have a rock-stock factory Colt 6920MP and a likewise equipped RRA CAR A4 (different twist barrel, but otherwise, at least from your viewpoint, nearly identical in configuration with the exception of the small parts like different mfg mil-spec triggers, pins, springs, buffers, etc.). The Colt will easily and repeatably hold ~1.5MOA with your basic ball ammo and not a whole lot better than that with most Match fodder. The RRA on the other hand doesn't shoot ball worth beans (>2MOA) but with match fodder up to 69gr, will get down into the sub-MOA range (doesn't like the 75gr and 77gr stuff one bit). Now...does that make the RRA a "better" rifle? Well...depends on your definition of "better" and what all you are asking the rifle to do and how long you expect it to do it before something goes tits up.

As for piston vs. DI and whether you can build a "precision piston AR-15"...yes, it can be done. That said, I wouldn't expect you to be able to "build" one in your basement from a piston upper/parts kit, but there are factory production piston operated ARs in existence today capable of predictable, repeatable levels of sub-MOA accuracy, including large-frame ARs as well. Your basic bolt-on kits from any number of different mfgs, well, not so much in my experience with various options over the last 6-7yrs.

What I meant about the barrel is that each manufacturer's barrel is the limited to their AR, and all the accessories (M6A2 comes with different accessories than the LE 6920 like the troy buis sights, DMR trigger, and better stock) will be the same.

But thank you for the input! I very much appreciate your comment.
 
I got into an argument with a range buddy, and I'm here to ask you guys a question.

I said that any non-custom precision AR-15 (colt, LWRC m6a2, rock river ar-15, PSA ar-15) with the same accessories (rail system, trigger, stock, etc) with different barrels (each to one's brand, lwrc, colt, psa etc) will shoot almost the same (we're not talking about sub-MOA, just 12 inch plates).

He disagreed and told me colt is better (I had to laugh). I told him people with the same training and different brand guns will shoot practically the same (excluding human error with some shots).

Can anyone settle this stupid argument?

________

Another question, is it possible to build a precision piston ar-15?

Really dude!!!!! Is the speed of a pickup truck dependent on the driver? Pass the popcorn!!! I really try not being a smart a-- to people but jeez oh pete. To many variables, trigger, barrel, ff tube, ammo, optics, etc. etc. etc.

Sent from my Motorola Electrify using Tapatalk 2
 
I'm really surprised this type of thread is on the Hyde. I'll be back I need to mix another Jim an coke