I only loaded the 140 amax. I loaded 41.5 42.0 42.5 and 43 grains of h4350. The 42.5 shot the best with 42.0 being very close. 41.5 and 43 didnt do so well.
Range Report The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW
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I only loaded the 140 amax. I loaded 41.5 42.0 42.5 and 43 grains of h4350. The 42.5 shot the best with 42.0 being very close. 41.5 and 43 didnt do so well.
I am with you on this note..
Shooters and Hornady customers deserve to hear an explanation from
Hornady themself..
Pulled 2 bullets from lot # 3132829 today and measured the powder on them. They were both 41.6 , on the money, of hybrid 100v. That's exactly the same lot thar was shot in the original pic I posted at the start of this thread as the " crappy" group. Just thought I'd let you guys know.
I chrono'd the Hornady 140 grain that had 43.8 gr of "X" in them today. Averaged 2930fps out of a new Savage 12 LRP creedmoor. Not good groups. I found a decent node around 41 to 41.6 gr of H4350 at about 2775 average. Still not sure what powder is in the store bought.
X as in Reloader 19??
Shit, the more I think about it that very well could be Reloader 17. I just put it in QL and with that powder charge at 70 degrees with a 26" bbl and its 2932 fps but with upper 61,000 psi meaning Hornady is basically loading really really hot. No wonder primers are falling out!! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard when your selling to HUGE VOLUMES OF PEOPLE with rifles that can't take that kind of pressure. That's at only 70 degrees... Think about how high the psi levels will be at 90 to 100 degree days. I foresee some poor sole having a rifle get FUBARED in the months to come...
Anyone shooting these newer lots at distance or just at 100 yards? I had some nice groups thursday at distance during a new barrel break in. No pressure signs on any of the 60 I shot.
I have shot the factory stuff out to 1,000 yards MANY times. But that was with lots that began with 312... I hand load for the 140 Berger hybrid so I usually shoot them if I'm running low on Hand loads. Last summer it was nothing to shoot 3" dots at 1,000 yards with the factory 140. I got a ton of h4350 a ton of brass and 700 hybrids. Really didn't shoot them unless I wanted to foul my bbl after a good cleaning. I ran out of the 2012 stuff and bought a few boxes of the newer stuff and that's when I noticed the difference. I wouldn't even attempt to shoot long range with the lots I have. 1 moa at one hundred yards.... Ugh no thanks
All of the 4 boxes I bought are in the 313xxxx lot numbers also. I found it interesting that during an OCW test with the 140gr Amax bullets and H4350 yesterday, I started to get cratered primers at a certain charge and that is about the same time the OCW told me I had found a crappy node, or had passed the better one. With these store bought, I am cratering primers and have a few that leave ejector marks on the head stamp from the get go. The store bought had MV 100 fps higher than what my load work up had when it first cratered primers, measured with a magnetospeed. Glad I found this thread on SH.
I shot the factory load I have referenced at 435 yards on steel.
Bottom right group was 5 rounds of factory ammo. Upper group was 3 rounds of handloads. Third shot got away from me a little.
Bottom right group was 5 rounds of factory ammo. Upper group was 3 rounds of handloads. Third shot got away from me a little.
I had similar results. Two 3 shot groups at 500 yards shot during barrel break in. The bottom left group had a vertical of less than a half inch.
My plan was to reload the brass from lot 313xxxx after going through the empties I had about 40 pieces of brass that showed ejector marks on the case heads and some carbon in the letters on the case heads, I left them out and cleaned the rest 5 more case that I cleaned had scary loose primer pockets when I reprimed the brass so I tossed them as well.
Never had any issues like this before.
Never had any issues like this before.
I'm lot number 3133158. I shot 100 of these yesterday in brand new rock barrel. Shot like shit best group of day was close to 3/4. Worst was around 2 inches at 100 yards. Had flattened primers and a few with swipes. It was 66 degrees and sunny while shooting. Oh and it was nasty powder. My rig was completely fouled out after 100 rounds. If I wasn't just trying to burn the ammo for break in and brass I'd be super passed.
I have about 10 shells left in the last box so I broke one of these apart. I will break the rest up for bullets and brass. Or maybe just load 41.5 of H4350 and see how they do.
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That's because they are using R17 at a very dangerous pressure rate. Like the post just below this one... That's wayyy to much powder. If its 19, which I doubt bc people are reporting freaking highhh velocity ) then it would make sense. But you might as well pull all the bullets and resize. That shit is dirty, and a waste of range time and bbl life
I haven't pulled any of these yet to look inside, but I do have a box or two of the newer stuff. Aside from the font used for the word 'MATCH' on the box, the only other noticeable difference is the color of the brass, which I think was noted elsewhere in this thread.
The top 20 are from a 3122982 lot # and the bottom 20 are from lot # 3132438. This isn't a lighting trick or anything. The old ones are more "brassy" in color.
New (bottom) vs Old (top) fonts.
The top 20 are from a 3122982 lot # and the bottom 20 are from lot # 3132438. This isn't a lighting trick or anything. The old ones are more "brassy" in color.
New (bottom) vs Old (top) fonts.
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Has anyone here contacted Hornady and told them that people are upset and that number is growing? They better do done damage control fast if they want to keep this round thriving.
So, are we basically saying the change occured when they went to 313 lots??
That's not 100%, but my thought is about the same time the box changed design .... The ammo did as well. I've never shot an older looking box that didn't shoot lights out.
I would, but don't have one yet, thinking of switching from .260 BECAUSE of "quality" 140 Amax factory ammo. Someone with actual experience with both should definitely check in with Hornady and update here. I would be happy to o/r them with my concerns but don't have specifics or experience with lot numbers causing problems. Are the 6.5 .com guys in touch with Hornady?
I checked Today to get a phone number to call customer service about their ammunition department. For some odd reason they were not accepting calls regarding their ammunition or reloading components. Along with a few other things. Email with your name telephone number and all that crap. That the only way to get them...only by email
I am shooting lot #3132922, and the boxes appear to have the larger "Match". So far, 200 out of 400 rounds have been good. Accuracy is close to 1/2 MOA.
I'll be going to the plant in-person in March. Not sure who I could visit with to discuss the specifics on the alleged changes but it's worth a try.
You have any chrono numbers? Even if it is accurate, I'm hearing the new stuff is substantially slower
I have trued the velocity to 2760 fps based on dope out to 1000 yards using G7 and 26" Brux 1:8. During various range trips the temps varies from low 30's to low 50's. This lot is holding at least 1 MOA out to 1k.
I was breaking in my new Savage12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor with three boxes of 140 gr A-Max all lot number 3133158 ordered from MidwayUSA a couple weeks ago. Out of the 50 rounds I shot I had 3 blown primers and many had ejector marks.
26" factory barrel
Temp estimated: 70 F
MV in fps
Mean 2868
SD 18.37
Min 2817
Max 2898
So glad I found this page. I couldn't figure out what was going on.
26" factory barrel
Temp estimated: 70 F
MV in fps
Mean 2868
SD 18.37
Min 2817
Max 2898
So glad I found this page. I couldn't figure out what was going on.
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This is very disappointing from Hornady. The only reason I chose 6.5 CM was affordable match ammo. Looks like I should have gone 308.
I haven't shot any of the 313 lots but shot 3 different lots before the box change and they were all very accurate. Out of a 26" Savage 12 LRP 140 Amax chrono'd mid 2700's. I don't have a chrono so I only checked one lot when I was shooting with someone who did.
Edit: Going back and looking at my notes it looks like avg. MV was 2763 and it was summer in AL.
I haven't shot any of the 313 lots but shot 3 different lots before the box change and they were all very accurate. Out of a 26" Savage 12 LRP 140 Amax chrono'd mid 2700's. I don't have a chrono so I only checked one lot when I was shooting with someone who did.
Edit: Going back and looking at my notes it looks like avg. MV was 2763 and it was summer in AL.
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I chrono'd one lot of 313xxxx at 2930 avg. I loaded up my own and found a nice spot at 41.4 gr of H4350, 140 gr amax, mv of 2800. This out of my 12 LRP in 6.5. It shot under 2 in groups at 500. I still have some tweaking to do as I think it can do better, but still happy as this was the first time out past 100 yards.
anyone seeing anything similar out of the 120's??? Is this really isolated to the 140's?
As I mentioned, I have a 6.5 build in the works. I went with 6.5CM for the SOLE reason that there was quality factory match ammo available. I'm obviously now looking to squirrel away some older ammo until they get this issue sorted out.
From what I've gathered, I need to be looking for 312xxxxx lot #s and avoid the 313 stuff? Also, as to box design, the smaller "Match" is the old stuff, and the big outlined "Match" is the new stuff with the issues, correct?
Thanks guys
From what I've gathered, I need to be looking for 312xxxxx lot #s and avoid the 313 stuff? Also, as to box design, the smaller "Match" is the old stuff, and the big outlined "Match" is the new stuff with the issues, correct?
Thanks guys
I wasted 400 bullets in load development with H4350 140 amax and lapua brass in my custom built 260, could not get them to shoot for sht, switched to 140 smk's they are in one oblong hole in 5 shot groups . never will I use a 6.5 amax again. The 308 178's AMAX and HPBT's work perfect.
That seems to be pretty accurate. Although some fellows are reporting 313xxxx is shooting for them. Maybe earlier lots of the 313 stuff. May be alot of things. But my boss has a surgeon Scalpal .... Won't shoot the new stuff. My GA Crusader won't shoot it. Hell , just look at the first post in this thread. That bughole group was how ALL the 312 lots shot....
Thanks, shopping online it's not always possible to get a lot #, but if the box is an accurate gauge of what to look for and avoid, that helps. Here's a pic of some ammo I'm looking at currently that appears to be the older (good) stuff, right?
Yep, I never had one accuracy issue with the ammo in those boxes. The SMALL "Match"
Thanks Buddy,
Sorry for all the questions. This is my first foray into 6.5 and this thread just saved me a TON of heartache since Mile High is running a pretty nice price on a ton of ammo, but you can see in the pictures of the cases that it's 313 lot#s. I would have picked up 5-10 cases to have on hand for when the rifle was completed and would have been pulling my hair out when it didn't shoot.
Hopefully by the time the rifle is done the ammo situation will be sorted.
The reason I asked was because I know this thread is about the ammo and problems with it etc...but if that is the only lot you tried? Try a different lot also besides the handloads. Why? I've seen barrels even factory ones where the bores/grooves were really undersize and caused pressure problems regardless of which ammo was run thru it.
I won't say who the gun manufacturer was but one of the guys here 7mm-08 factory barrel the bore and grooves were so undersize that it was blowing most of the primers out of factory rounds. He had to reduce the handloads so much it wasn't funny just so he could shoot the gun (silhouette rifle). He had the gun before he started working here. Needless to say we made a new barrel for the rifle.
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
No problem !! This is why I initiated this thread.... To make folks aware that its not their rifle that is the problem. Hopefully it has saved alot of people alot of time money and frustration. And also given answers as to why their guns are not shooting like they should!!
I definitely appreciate it.
Did I miss it, or is there still no feedback from [MENTION=70]Rob01[/MENTION] or Hornady other than to send them an email and they'd get back to you?
It seems to me that as an ammo manufacturer you'd be kind of concerned that you were loading factory ammo well beyond safe specs and simultaneously destroying the reputation of one of your flagship offerings, but as I said, that's just me.
Looks like wrhunter, jeff1383 and myself are having decent results with the newer factory 313 lots.
Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. I'm hesitant to buy any more Hornady factory ammo. Don't want to waste my money on a bad batch.
Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. I'm hesitant to buy any more Hornady factory ammo. Don't want to waste my money on a bad batch.
This thread inspired me to shoot some groups at 100 yards for the hell of it. These are rounds 60-71 on a freshly chambered bartlien bbl. The 2nd group was shot suppressed in a prone position with a bag and bipod. The 1st group same position with 4 shots then I broke my cheek weld and hand fed 2 additional rounds for a total of 6. Both groups are different lots. One lot being purchased from mile high and the other somewhere online. It sucks that people are having such problems with these factory loadings. Although I do remember seeing posts a while back of popped primers with older lots as well. 
Thanks Frank, I'll give it a try before I blame the ammo.
This thread inspired me to shoot some groups at 100 yards for the hell of it. These are rounds 60-71 on a freshly chambered bartlien bbl. The 2nd group was shot suppressed in a prone position with a bag and bipod. The 1st group same position with 4 shots then I broke my cheek weld and hand fed 2 additional rounds for a total of 6. Both groups are different lots. One lot being purchased from mile high and the other somewhere online. It sucks that people are having such problems with these factory loadings. Although I do remember seeing posts a while back of popped primers with older lots as well.
That's really good to see...Nice shooting !
Okay, so I tracked down some of the "older" stuff for sale but here's the dilemma: It appears to be Lot# 3131512 is partially in the old box and partially in the new box. I think I'm going to take the gamble on a couple of cases of it just to have it on hand in the event that Hornady drags its ass on getting this problem fixed. Am I screwing up by grabbing it?
ETA: I was misinformed. The gentleman with the ammo got back in touch with me to say it was actually 2 different lot#s.
I'd already done the purchase, and he went out of his way to be honest about it, so I just told him to let the order stand so it looks like I'm going to end up with about 8 boxes of the old stuff (old box) and a full case plus 2 boxes of 3131512. I'm taking the gamble that that early into the 313 lot#s the ammo may still be okay. If not, then I have a ready excuse for shitty performance "It's not me, it's the ammo, honest."
ETA: I was misinformed. The gentleman with the ammo got back in touch with me to say it was actually 2 different lot#s.
I'd already done the purchase, and he went out of his way to be honest about it, so I just told him to let the order stand so it looks like I'm going to end up with about 8 boxes of the old stuff (old box) and a full case plus 2 boxes of 3131512. I'm taking the gamble that that early into the 313 lot#s the ammo may still be okay. If not, then I have a ready excuse for shitty performance "It's not me, it's the ammo, honest."
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It is so shitty right now with the stuff I got, last night I pulled 160 bullets out of the same lot of manufactured hornady 140 amaxs. Going to stuff them with h4350 and a 140 hybrid
I have been shooting Lot# 3131672 and have been very very happy. Hey if you don't want that 3131512 lot let me know. I will take a few boxes of that ammo off your hands!
The guy I got it from wasn't sure if he was going to sell what he had left once I explained the "issue" and why I was being such a PITA about lot#s. I just sent him an email to see what he's thinking. If he says he'll sell the rest, then I'll shoot you a PM with his info if that works for you?
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