- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
I've been going through the weight thing, too, wanting to keep it under 10 lb 2oz. (162 ozs), in case I want to shoot .22 sillywet.
16.5 Spectre 72 oz. ( I really want the slightly heavier bbl than the ranch)
Bravo chassis 45 oz. ( I've been whittling on it)
Trigger 3 oz.
Base 3 oz.
Alum. Rings 4 oz.
S&B U Short 32 oz.
Magazine 3 oz.
Total 162 oz. I HOPE!!! I'll have to change scopes if I'm over, or more probably a lighter Manners stock.
16.5 Spectre 72 oz. ( I really want the slightly heavier bbl than the ranch)
Bravo chassis 45 oz. ( I've been whittling on it)
Trigger 3 oz.
Base 3 oz.
Alum. Rings 4 oz.
S&B U Short 32 oz.
Magazine 3 oz.
Total 162 oz. I HOPE!!! I'll have to change scopes if I'm over, or more probably a lighter Manners stock.
Is the base with these steel or aluminum??
How many ounces could you lose by fluting the barrel?
The very much thinner Ranch bbl only saves 1.6 oz (going off the 4.4 lb quoted above), so fluting wouldn't change much, and I wouldn't want to take a chance on adding some stress that may hurt accuracy.
I'm hoping the weights quoted include the Vudoo scope base, but I don't know.
I have a very heavy scope and that is what's killing me.....but I really like it, LOL!
I'm hoping the weights quoted include the Vudoo scope base, but I don't know.
I have a very heavy scope and that is what's killing me.....but I really like it, LOL!
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For years I was shooting heavy scopes (PMII, ATACR, Razor Gen II), I have recently switched to Leupold MK5’s both the 5-26 & the 3-18. I am so far very happy with both! The weight was the whole reason I sold my NF’s.
What's your scope weigh in at? My Athlon Ares ETR is 36.5oz, it was 9.6oz heavier than the SIG Tango 4 I'd borrowed while waiting for the Ares.
My S&B 3-20 Ultra Short weighs 32 oz. I had a March 3-24x52 ordered but the picky parallax and thick crosshair finally scared me off (it was also 8 weeks out on delivery).
jbell...is the Vudoo scope mount steel or aluminum? I also have a bunch of Leupolds, and love the light weight, but all the parallax is 50 yards min. and that's a deal killer on a .22 for me.
I sent a 6.5-20 to them one time and had the parallax changed to 25 yd., but it unfocused everything past 200 yards.
jbell...is the Vudoo scope mount steel or aluminum? I also have a bunch of Leupolds, and love the light weight, but all the parallax is 50 yards min. and that's a deal killer on a .22 for me.
I sent a 6.5-20 to them one time and had the parallax changed to 25 yd., but it unfocused everything past 200 yards.
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I am not sure about the scope base, I gave my last rifle to my father so it is at his house now. My new barreled action should be on the way now, so I can tell you when it arrives. But I am sure someone here can chime in. My MK5 correct parallax at 50 yards just fine but I have never tested it closer. I will give it a try this weekend.
Vudoo's scope bases are aluminum.
Hellbender:
For competitions in which there is a weight limit on the weapon system, is there a weight-in or is it a matter of trust? I presume the weight of the magazine is without ammunition.
Rick
Since the question of weight has arisen and scopes are a major component, I have several questions, as usual!
The first concerns determining the CTC precision of a weapon system at 50 yd shooting with bench-bipod-bag support. What is the maximum magnification needed so the dispersion created by not being able to point the weapon system at the same aimpoint for every shot is 0.1 MOA, 0.01 MOA, ...? The above assumes the scope has world-class optics. However, there is another component, being able to adjust the support to the same degree of precision as the scope. Beyond a certain point I presume you need a "gun carriage" with micrometer drives.
The second question is not as easily defined. Shooting long range, say 400 yd, what is the magnification needed to hit a 6" gong, =1.4 MOA . It is subjective but I presume the gong must appear larger than the center of the cross hairs or the illuminated dot. But how much, say twice?
Many factors determine weight of scope but magnification must be a major one.
The first concerns determining the CTC precision of a weapon system at 50 yd shooting with bench-bipod-bag support. What is the maximum magnification needed so the dispersion created by not being able to point the weapon system at the same aimpoint for every shot is 0.1 MOA, 0.01 MOA, ...? The above assumes the scope has world-class optics. However, there is another component, being able to adjust the support to the same degree of precision as the scope. Beyond a certain point I presume you need a "gun carriage" with micrometer drives.
The second question is not as easily defined. Shooting long range, say 400 yd, what is the magnification needed to hit a 6" gong, =1.4 MOA . It is subjective but I presume the gong must appear larger than the center of the cross hairs or the illuminated dot. But how much, say twice?
Many factors determine weight of scope but magnification must be a major one.
When I was looking at Manners stocks for my V-22 Ranch, I'd decided their EH4 would look better with the short 18" bbl than the EH2 I wound up getting. The EH4 has a forearm 3.25" shorter than the EH2, which I thought would appear more proportionally correct than the EH2's longer forearm. However, the only EH4 they had listed on their flattop inventory had already been inletted for another action/bbl, while they had an EH2 in Elite GAP camo that was still a flattop, and so could be inletted for the V-22. I would think that the EH4's shorter forearm would come in a tad lighter than the EH2, so if you're looking to build a V-22 to come in under the 22RF silhouette weight limit, why not at least give them a call? I'd also go with a 1/2" pad instead of the 1" pad I got on my stock, or at least ask whether there's enough weight difference to matter. I might be wrong in assuming there'd be any weight difference, as the EH4's forearm looks a little bulkier than that of the EH2 in photos on Manners' website. Even if it's not lighter, the shorter forearm would look better with the 18" bbl IMHO.
Attachments
Silhouette rules state the weapon must be weighed in with an empty mag inserted in the configuration it is going to be shot in. For important matches like a state level comp, they will put the rifle on a digital scale (8.5 lbs max weight hunter class) and also test trigger weight with a 2 lb weight as that is the minimum weight for that class. Other rules to be met are a tapered barrel and a classic look stock (no straight vertical grip angle). Also, any adjustable stock features such as cheek weld or LOP must be fixed into place and not allowed to adjust after competition starts (they tape over the adj knobs with masking tape). IIRC stock cheek cannot be higher than bore centerline
I personally do not feel like I am leaving anything on the table shooting prone off a bipod with a bag in the rear or with a scope that has a good reticle and magnification of 16X or more.
I see no need for a rifle fixture, benchrest setup, and super high magnification scopes until you start shooting purpose built benchrest rifles.
Tiger...Seems you may be familiar with the rules more than I, as I've only been reading them...LOL!
I was planning on cutting down a mag to 5 or 6 rounds also, so it would be close to flush with the bottom of the stock. The rules state something about not being able to use an extended mag for a hand rest.
In the heavier weight class, the vertical grip will not be a problem, will it? I used to have a 54.18 MSR (always kicked myself for selling it) and the grip was vertical on it.
Thanks for the info.
I was planning on cutting down a mag to 5 or 6 rounds also, so it would be close to flush with the bottom of the stock. The rules state something about not being able to use an extended mag for a hand rest.
In the heavier weight class, the vertical grip will not be a problem, will it? I used to have a 54.18 MSR (always kicked myself for selling it) and the grip was vertical on it.
Thanks for the info.
Flatland....Thanks for the info on the base, that is good news!
My best friend/shooting buddy is now Manners PR man/sales rep and I've already talked to him about a custom stock, but I have to go up to KC to get it made, as I shoot right handed/left eye since I now have a small blind spot in my right eye from an old injury. So I shoot stocks with the adjustable cheek piece removed and my head laid over or AR's with a higher sight plane, sounds kinda weird, but it works for me, but I have to have the right stock to fit.
Must be nice to have access to Manners - it's gotten darned near impossible to get through to them via phone. Finally gave up on calling and ordered another PRS1 in scorched earth for my V-22 Kukri via e-mail. Got a confirmation back pronto, and just finished approving the order, so it's in the system. But need to talk with Robert about getting a stock for a Tikka T1x...
Sorry to hear of your eye injury - I hope you can continue to enjoy shooting for as long as you're into it. I came very, very close to getting a serious injury to my right eye while in the pits during a KS State SR Champs match at DeSoto/Mill Creek several years ago, when the shooter on my point evidently forgot to put on his 500yd come-up and either made a really eff'd up wind call, or put the wrong wind on his M14's rear sight. His 1st sighter hit the target frame to the right of his target, right on the edge of the 2x4 frame, and sprayed bullet fragments & wood splinters all over me. A small piece of lead went just under the bill of my ball cap, just behind the frame/lens of my sunglasses, and entered my right eye. Was a bitch driving the 350+ miles home from the match on a Sunday afternoon-evening with an eye injury like that - every time I blinked, the irritation in my right eye flared-up again. Followed the advice of a doc who was shooting with us there that day, and called a semi-local eye surgeon located about 60mi from home. Got my folks to drive me down so he could remove the little chunk of lead. He put it into a plastic contact lens case so I could keep it as a souvenir.
Thanks T-S. For me there are only two types of competitions. One anything goes, like the America's Cup. May the team with the most money and best lawyers win. I do not know if there is anything like that in the shooting world. The other is all competitors have the same equipment and so winning depends on skill such as driving, sailing, marksmanship. From your description of the rules, the competition you describe is the second type. Everybody having more or less the same weapon system.
I took mine out yesterday and it was really liking the Prime ammo I picked up. Every time I shoot this thing I am more and more happy with my purchase.
Rick, that's good stuff, thanks! When mine gets here, I'll post all the weights before I put it together, too.
This will help guys needing to make weight for some comps, or just wondering.
My list might not look as pretty, though!
This will help guys needing to make weight for some comps, or just wondering.
My list might not look as pretty, though!
My latest, V22 20" Kukri Ace. This is how it arrived. I have to say the more I work with VGW the more I am impressed with everything about the company. Their customer service is the standard by which all others should be judged, awesome products and attention to detail as can be seen here in this first picture of how they packaged the barreled action and magazines. This is my 2nd rifle from them and my brother is picking his up tomorrow if the UPS gods are willing and so far the quality of work is superb. I am a customer for life!
This one is sitting in a Manners TF2A in GAP camo with the mini chassis. I am using the Tubb T7T for fire control duties, and a MK5 3-18 CCH in Vortex rings. As you see it with the Harris and an empty mag it is 13.2 pounds, the balance is nice. I am looking forward to seeing how it shoots...
This one is sitting in a Manners TF2A in GAP camo with the mini chassis. I am using the Tubb T7T for fire control duties, and a MK5 3-18 CCH in Vortex rings. As you see it with the Harris and an empty mag it is 13.2 pounds, the balance is nice. I am looking forward to seeing how it shoots...
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Thank you, I am happy with how it turned out. It feels good and the balance is about right. I need to play with the trigger some, it is a little light for my liking.
So y'all know I tried all 6 mags in the mini chassis and they all fit perfect. I have not cycled any rounds through it yet but if the fit is any indicator I am sure they will feed like the other Vudoo's I have shot.
So y'all know I tried all 6 mags in the mini chassis and they all fit perfect. I have not cycled any rounds through it yet but if the fit is any indicator I am sure they will feed like the other Vudoo's I have shot.
If you like I will send you the complete spreadsheet since could not attach it. DEFCON 1 at the Hide. Really nothing to it, just I am terrible at arithmetic. There are 100 rows for components. To find the weight of the rig you are running, just type 1 in Column F for each of the components including ammo if so desired. All weights are entered in lb.
Be aware ITAR does not permit exporting this product!!!
Rick
Rick, that would be great, I'll pm you my email address. I have a good digital scale.
Hellbender:
Will do. I tested my scale with calibrated weights and accuracy should be within 5 grams weights of several ounces up to 15 lb. Since good practice dictates weighing a common object, I have a brick of Tenex that weighs 4.22 lb. Lot number is 1016-06179 1042.
Nice but dang that comb is high
Rick,
Why don't you send me that brick of Tenex so I can check mine, I'll send you my brick of Thunderbolts ( Lot # is 1982remjunk ) that weighs 4.29 lbs (HV has more powder, you know), that way we can double check everything.....
LOL, Brad
Brad:
Fair enough. I do not actually shoot Tenex. Just take it to the range so as not to embarrass my Vudoo with the low rent ammo I actually use, Geco 22LR.
A brick of that is 4.15 lb, LOT 43RL8. $0.07/round and statistically cannot tell difference in accuracy between Geco and Tenex . Another of the many joys of shooting standing- offhand with less than world-class marksmanship. My V-22 bolt with large bolt knob weighs 0.660 lb as another point of reference.
Since you are cognizant of metrology, do the CTC measurements of groups to 0.001" cause wonderment? Noble credulity.
Rick
Rick, I think a microscope would be required to get it that close, at least on a paper target, but no-one ever argues!
The new light triggered shooting systems may make it possible, IDK.
I've ordered a small knob on my V22, so we'll have 1 more item on the list.
My pic rail is also 30 MOA instead of your 20, but that may be a wash, as they may remove material on the front, instead of just add to the back, or maybe a little of both....LOL...about as much difference as that last .001" group measurement makes!
I have my reloading setup tuned to where I can quickly resolve to one individual kernel of about any extruded powder. Don't know if it makes a difference, but my OCD side feels better!
Brad
The new light triggered shooting systems may make it possible, IDK.
I've ordered a small knob on my V22, so we'll have 1 more item on the list.
My pic rail is also 30 MOA instead of your 20, but that may be a wash, as they may remove material on the front, instead of just add to the back, or maybe a little of both....LOL...about as much difference as that last .001" group measurement makes!
I have my reloading setup tuned to where I can quickly resolve to one individual kernel of about any extruded powder. Don't know if it makes a difference, but my OCD side feels better!
Brad
Were there any issues fitting the T7T in the mini chassis? I have a Manners on order for my Vudoo with T7T and want to make sure.
The V22 with the T7T fit the mini chassis just fine, however the T7T isn't the best fit in the V22. The trigger housing cut out in the action is rounded on the ends, the radius in the rear makes slight contact with the triggers side plates. You will see that your pin holes don't line up, they will be just slightly forward of being aligned. You will also see that the rear of the trigger is jammed into the radius in the rear preventing alignment. It was a very simple fix: use a Dremel and hack out the rear of the trigger cut in the action. Problem solved
**KIDDING** I used a needle file and put a slight bevel on the side plates of the trigger. It does not take much, go light and easy testing often.
The only other issue with the T7T and the V22 is the safety. The T7T is a true firing pin block safety (which is great) but in doing so it slightly compresses the firing pin spring just a little more than when cocked. The safety is hard to put on in the V22 I guess maybe because the spring is heavier than most R700 actions / clones. But it works, just takes a bit. Doesn't bother me as I don't use a safety any way...
The T7T is an excellent trigger IMO and pairs nicely with such a nice action. You will enjoy both for sure!
Just received my Manners stocks to put together my boys Christmas presents.. Got one S&B mounted and one to go. Going to have two happy campers on Christmas morning.
I was able to justify 4 ways:
1) PRS trainer for my Foundation/Impact set up
2) I shoot a rimfire comp once a month
3) I have a Bighorn action that I might move to this stock one day (cut for the Bighorn and only needed slight modifications to fit the V22 action)
4) Why not have the best? (in my mind anyway)...
YMMV
Are you repling to me? The comb is the checkrest. Have you shot it yet?
Btw love my Vudoo it has been the secret to every top finish in the NRL22 i’ve shoot.... but don’t tell anyone
My mistake. Thought you were saying the combo (Foundation and V22) was high in cost... Long day out in the sun. I have high cheekbones, setting my rifles to this Zoolander Blue Steel mug keeps my fat faced friends off my guns. I have about 500 rounds through it so far. Super impressed and haven't ran the good stuff through it yet, just whatever I had around the shop. Plan to send it to Lapua for some lot testing soon. I have focused on the ELR stuff with a little PRS mixed in these last few years but this is my first serious rimfire. I still have a lot to learn. Had been borrowing a buddy's rifle to shoot the local match each month. Finally got off my ass and got my own. I'll post some more pics and targets when I figure my shit out. Having poor luck past 100 yards atm.
My Vudoo runs an MPA Hybrid Chassis. The MPA beat a Grayboe Ridgeback for ergonomics. Yesterday replaced the MPA vertical grip with new adjustable vertical grip from MDT. Sweet is not the word. Can have both proper trigger finger placement and a firm grip with other fingers. All components of ergonomics now in place. Purchased MPA Hybrid for weight compensation and balance system. Do not need more weight, if fact a a pound or pound and a half less might be better. Next Vudoo will achieve that. Entire barreled action plus trigger to lose a pound. Expensive weight loss regime. Perhaps should just pump more iron but what fun is that. Balance superb without any additional weights.
The ultimate support for your Vudoo. Harold Vaughn in his research on causes of rifle inaccuracy constructed a support that turned a rifle into a rail gun. Ideal present for the Vudoo owner who has everything. 
What's the weight on that?
Quick trip to test out the Vudoo today, it functioned perfect with all 6 mags. I love the T7T trigger, and the manners stock feels nice. The temp was cool in the low 30's but the wind was low. I was not doing any serious shooting mainly trying some different ammo and getting the scope zeroed. The top target is the 1st 10 rounds of Center X @ 50 yards. The bottom is 5 rounds of Center X (all the low shots out of the bull) scope adjustment and 5 more of Center X then 10 rounds of Lapua Polar (which is the hole in the top right of the target, with maybe a few stragglers that dropped low) Basically the cluster of impacts (from what I can count) is 9 or 10 rounds forming the hole with a few more just touching the cluster. I will be testing this ammo more. Oh this bottom target was shot at 100 yards, and the target is a 1" circle not too shabby...
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Sweet Vudoo...I like what you have sitting in the back-ground also ; )
DW
DW
A friend gifted me a box of Lapua Polar (he refers to it as Bi Polar...lol) that he came across when a local store was disposing of their remaining stock of Lapua ammo IIRC. I left it sitting on the table in my game room for more than a year, then another friend who has a Jelrod-converted 40X repeater with a 22" Krieger in hvy Palma told me how good the box of the same lot of Bi Polar had shot in his rifle. I finally took my box of this stuff down to my range & shot some of it through my Jelrod 40XB's Krieger at 200 - at the time, it was by far the best ammo at 200yds that I'd tried. I called Grafs to see what they had of it, and was told they only had two lots in stock - one of which consisted of only 6 boxes. I bought those six 50rd boxes, plus four bricks of the other lot, and as luck would have it, the six box lot shot quite a bit better than the 2000rds of the other lot. Bummer - but even the less accurate stuff shoots a bit better at 200-300yds than anything else I had at the time. Grafs told me the Bi Polar flies off the shelves as fast as they get it in, so there's obviously pretty fair demand for it.
I’m gonna test it more for sure along with some X-Act.
I recently sold my AIAT to get back into a TRG, I couldn’t be happier! Ultimately it will become a 6.5X47 but I wanted to work up a load with the Lapua D46. So far RL15 @ 2620fps (43.5 grains) is looking good. Hope to try it out at 1150 yards in a week or so. Oh, I also sold all my ATACR F1 scopes and got a few MK5’s with the CCH I’m very happy with that decision too. Not knocking the NF, I love them! But the MK5 is excellent and quite a bit lighter!
I recently sold my AIAT to get back into a TRG, I couldn’t be happier! Ultimately it will become a 6.5X47 but I wanted to work up a load with the Lapua D46. So far RL15 @ 2620fps (43.5 grains) is looking good. Hope to try it out at 1150 yards in a week or so. Oh, I also sold all my ATACR F1 scopes and got a few MK5’s with the CCH I’m very happy with that decision too. Not knocking the NF, I love them! But the MK5 is excellent and quite a bit lighter!
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