• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Balancing Constitutional Rights versus Public Health

Longshot231

Four Star General
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Mar 8, 2018
    10,711
    37,020
    In Florida, a Pastor has been arrested for holding church services despite a government order to stay at home. I believe that the articles in the link below are somewhat biased against the pastor.

    However, according to a radio broadcast on this matter, the church and it's members practiced social distancing with increased spacing in the seating. The church installed a special filtration system in the air conditioning system so the air would not be recirculated in the church. I regret to say that I cannot find a link to that information that I heard in the newscast. If I can find a link, I will post it later.

    Please keep in mind that I'm not attempting to violate the TOS by bringing up the subject of religion. I'm trying to bring up the subject of infringing on one of the bill of rights. The 2nd amendment is there should the government attempt to prevent citizens from exercising their rights in the other nine amendments.

    A few questions come to mind.

    1) The pastor was the only one arrested. Why weren't the other 1000 to 1200 other attendees arrested?

    2) The state of Florida, like other states are releasing criminals from incarceration. Yet this Pastor is arrested for exercising his 1st Amendment right and has not committed any crime other than defying an executive order. Is that a double standard?

    3) If the one man, the governor, is free to define what constitutes an "emergency" can that same governor then issue orders preventing individuals from exercise their constitutional rights, including the 2nd Amendment? What will happen in future "emergencies?"

    4) The state of Florida, like some other states, has deemed that gun stores are an "essential business" and can remain open. So they obviously recognize the 2nd Amendment, why aren't they recognizing the 1st?

    5) Is this a direct attack on Christians and/or other religion?

    https://thehill.com/regulation/cour...-pastor-arrested-for-holding-services-despite

    https://www.brproud.com/news/pastor...-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-order/

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article241531041.html

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...rus-covid-19-jails-prisons-mass-incarceration

    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200326-zochbxwc5fhjnhi2g5pft3x5ou-story.html
     
    Last edited:
    I’m not religious but if Walmart can have 500 people inside it I think all bets are off. Some people take their religion more serious than eating. If they were going to do it right all big box stores should be pickup only. Groceries only. It’s not fair to bankrupt the rest of the country while they flourish.
     
    Wielding power to scare people comes in many different forms. Like has been said if it's ok to gather over there why is it not here? Just some low level asshole making a statement, not the people on Fla as a whole. When all this shakes out one way or the other(an some soon) many are going to pay a price for their B/S, in forms they won't have an issue understanding,...
     
    If you allow the government to start down the path of: "Balancing Constitutional Rights versus Public Health"
    Then you DON'T actually have any constitutional RIGHTS, only the illusion of privileges that you get to enjoy as long as you are a good little sheep and as long as it's convenient for your masters to let you enjoy them.

    All the "King's Men" who participated in arresting that preacher should be put on notice that they are traitors to the constitution along with any and all who signed off on this blatant violation of the 1st amendment.

    The 1st Amendment does NOT say you can worship or not worship the deity of your choosing in the way you choose unless the government thinks for your own good you should stop. This is pretty much Communist level suppression just like the good old USSR and China today.

    Like the poster above said, if your local Chinamart can be packed with people, any argument about "for the public health" is totally BS.

    THIS is how the government gets to destroy civil rights brazenly and openly while all the good little stupid sheep bleat in approval.

    This also goes to show "The King's Men" should NOT be counted on to do the right thing or uphold the constitution. Their paychecks and their retirement packages are way more important. And of course don't expect any quick justice from the Courts, they will be happy to let your rights get violated and hope you go bankrupt before you force them to actually show their true communist colours from the bench.

    But just remember all through history, no Tyrant, Dictator, Monster or true villain ever gained power and kept power without a whole bunch of supporters and "Just Following Orders" type. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot didn't kill millions by themselves, a whole bunch of "Just Following Orders" types did while a bunch of sheeple cheered loudly and begged for more.

    Let me guess next comes arresting preachers who don't tell their flock to cower and hide and obey every word the tyrants say.

    I guess our local politicians are looking at the Communist control of official "allowed" religion in China and thinking this is a great time to try some of that too and see how far they can push it.
     
    Wielding power to scare people comes in many different forms. Like has been said if it's ok to gather over there why is it not here? Just some low level asshole making a statement, not the people on Fla as a whole. When all this shakes out one way or the other(an some soon) many are going to pay a price for their B/S, in forms they won't have an issue understanding,...

    Remember that the Mayor of New Orleans and the Chief of Police used hurricane Katrina to confiscate firearms, with the help of the National Guard. AFAIK, some people still have not had their guns returned.
     
    Let me guess next comes arresting preachers who don't tell their flock to cower and hide and obey every word the tyrants say.

    All good points. What would have happened if every member attending services was armed to the teeth, willing to oppose any effort to arrest the Pastor.

    Furthermore, AFAIK, this church made it clear to the entire public that they were going to hold services. This begs the question; if the cops were so wise and omniscient, why didn't they simply blockade the church entrances?

    I can partially answer that question. The photos and videos of a confrontation between the cops and parishioners would have looked very bad for the government and law enforcement. Remember that people don't like to be tried by the media. That goes the same for a police chief. By arresting the Pastor, after the fact, they can now control the media narrative.

    That's why Christ was arrested at night, even though he appeared in public on numerous occasions. He never hid what he did and his comments about the authorities of that day weren't complimentary. I'm not saying that to proselytize anyone but to point out that human nature never changes.
     
    Last edited:
    The Pastor should have known better! Dumb ass move! Have services in the parking lot an have them stay in their cars! Have services on line. I don’t want this shit an one infected person in that group would have infected 10! Think that group just went home after church, shit no!
     
    Remember that the Mayor of New Orleans and the Chief of Police used hurricane Katrina to confiscate firearms, with the help of the National Guard. AFAIK, some people still have not had their guns returned.
    That place was corrupt long before K hit. People had a chance to feet vote long before that. Anyone who thinks the COTUS stands in that kind of venue (any large liberial controlled A/O)is not thinking past their nose.
     
    The Pastor should have known better! Dumb ass move! Have services in the parking lot an have them stay in their cars! Have services on line. I don’t want this shit an one infected person in that group would have infected 10! Think that group just went home after church, shit no!

    Good point, but as one person has said, why is it okay to shutdown churches but let crowds pack the grocery stores, big box stores and places like Walmart?
     
    There is a balancing act (that's why you can't yell "Fire" in a movie theater). Same with speed limits. It's likely that the "stay at home"/separation is saving lives. I'm doubt that the church can/could/did install an effective filtration system. Large area, closed space.
    They aren't even sure how "airborne" this virus is (maybe a little transfer/maybe quite transferable)
     
    There is a balancing act (that's why you can't yell "Fire" in a movie theater). Same with speed limits. It's likely that the "stay at home"/separation is saving lives. I'm doubt that the church can/could/did install an effective filtration system. Large area, closed space.
    They aren't even sure how "airborne" this virus is (maybe a little transfer/maybe quite transferable)

    I'm just restating what I heard on the radio. I'd like to find a link to share but can't.
     
    I'm just restating what I heard on the radio. I'd like to find a link to share but can't.

    I appreciate your posting the thread. We will see where are this goes, one thing for sure, all these closures are affecting almost everybody, in terms of paying rents, personal wealth, plans, etc.
     
    The Pastor should have known better! Dumb ass move! Have services in the parking lot an have them stay in their cars! Have services on line. I don’t want this shit an one infected person in that group would have infected 10! Think that group just went home after church, shit no!

    :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

    But apparently the entire batch of them could have headed in to the local ChinaMart without any issue and nobody was going to arrest the local ChinaMart manager.....

    So apparently the state says you can all go worship Mammon together side by side. But it's illegal to worship The Almighty Creator side by side.

    Essentially you are good with the government telling you what deity is allowed to be worshiped and how.
     
    My opinion. The pastor has an obligation to take care of his flock. I don’t believe he did in this case. There are ways to worship without being inside of a confined space. Walmart good point, but people are not as confined or close together as far as I can tell. You can easily stay 10 feet apart. Hell im at work and will be for the duration. Am I afraid? Not smart enough I guess. But we are being very careful as everyone should be. My biggest fear is transferring to someone else. Mitigated by going to and from work and sticking close to the house otherwise. My .02
     
    Maybe church security teams need to focus their attention on this new threat

    That would open up a whole new thing and I'm not sure people love their freedom enough to do that.

    However you know if they are coming to arrest your local religious leader, you can easily have some "security" in an over watch position to make them see the "cost" isn't worth it....

    But nobody is willing to go all out yet, because once you do that, it's game on till one side or both sides run out of bodies.
     
    I found the Facebook page of the church but there is nothing new there about the arrest. I provide it here for future reference.

    Also below is what I believe, is the governing body of the church/denomination. They make some really good points about the stay at home order. The takeway from the article that I get is:

    1) they feel the order is not applied equally as the same restrictions don't apply to other secular businesses.

    2) the restrictions (based on Florida Court precedence) that a quarantine is meant to restrict a sick person from infecting the public. The government's order is restricting healthy people and not the sick person.

    3) They cite a Florida statute: "Emergency management powers authorizes the Governor to act in a positive authority to keep essential businesses open. This statute only authorizes the power to 'Suspend or limit the sale, dispensing, or transportation of alcoholic beverages, firearms, explosives, and combustibles.' It does not authorize the Governor to negatively effect any other private business or churches."

    https://www.facebook.com/rivertampabay/

    https://www.revival.com/a/COVID19-Restrictions-and-Freedom-of-Religion
     
    Waco TX.
    That would open up a whole new thing and I'm not sure people love their freedom enough to do that.

    However you know if they are coming to arrest your local religious leader, you can easily have some "security" in an over watch position to make them see the "cost" isn't worth it....

    But nobody is willing to go all out yet, because once you do that, it's game on till one side or both sides run out of bodies.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Longshot231
    1) The pastor was the only one arrested. Why weren't the other 1000 to 1200 other attendees arrested?

    2) The state of Florida, like other states are releasing criminals from incarceration. Yet this Pastor is arrested for exercising his 1st Amendment right and has not committed any crime other than defying an executive order. Is that a double standard?

    3) If the one man, the governor, is free to define what constitutes an "emergency" can that same governor then issue orders preventing individuals from exercise their constitutional rights, including the 2nd Amendment? What will happen in future "emergencies?"

    4) The state of Florida, like some other states, has deemed that gun stores are an "essential business" and can remain open. So they obviously recognize the 2nd Amendment, why aren't they recognizing the 1st?
    1) Because he was in charge. The person in charge of a gather is the person held responsible for it.

    2) He's not being held in prison or jail. So just like other non-violent criminals who were freed, he's out in the free world.

    3) No one has said people aren't free to practice their religion. Just that they can't gather in large groups. Gathering in large groups is not a requirement of Christianity (the religion they are practicing). People can still pray. People can still read the bible. A church that has enough money to build a structure of such extravagance can afford to host something online.

    4) No one is being denied their first amendment rights.
     
    At least at Walmart you can get in, get out, with some real food.

    This guy is probably blathering on about some traditions of man and how they are going to roll fertility eggs in a couple weeks.

    A serious correction is upon us. This virus is just a small scratch of what's to come.

    Guaranteed.
    Whatever your beliefs/non beliefs are about religion. They should be filtered during a conversation about constitutional rights.
    What he preaches about has nothing to do with the topic.
     
    You really have been brainwashed. So what flavor of boot polish do you like better?
    1) Because he was in charge. The person in charge of a gather is the person held responsible for it.

    2) He's not being held in prison or jail. So just like other non-violent criminals who were freed, he's out in the free world.

    3) No one has said people aren't free to practice their religion. Just that they can't gather in large groups. Gathering in large groups is not a requirement of Christianity (the religion they are practicing). People can still pray. People can still read the bible. A church that has enough money to build a structure of such extravagance can afford to host something online.

    4) No one is being denied their first amendment rights.
     
    1) Because he was in charge. The person in charge of a gather is the person held responsible for it.

    2) He's not being held in prison or jail. So just like other non-violent criminals who were freed, he's out in the free world.

    3) No one has said people aren't free to practice their religion. Just that they can't gather in large groups. Gathering in large groups is not a requirement of Christianity (the religion they are practicing). People can still pray. People can still read the bible. A church that has enough money to build a structure of such extravagance can afford to host something online.

    4) No one is being denied their first amendment rights.
    That sounds like a canned response.
     
    I believe in personal liberty and the Constitution, 100% of the time. No exceptions for pandemics, wars, national emergencies, etc. Unless I missed these in my copy of the Constitution.

    The government (federal and state) will keep limiting our rights to travel, assembly, speech, self protection, etc. "for our own good". And they know 99% of the sheep in this country won't utter a word questioning it. So what makes us so different from China? They ordered their people quarantined under penalty of jail and fines, just like us. At what point do we say enough is enough?
     
    1) Because he was in charge. The person in charge of a gather is the person held responsible for it.

    2) He's not being held in prison or jail. So just like other non-violent criminals who were freed, he's out in the free world.

    3) No one has said people aren't free to practice their religion. Just that they can't gather in large groups. Gathering in large groups is not a requirement of Christianity (the religion they are practicing). People can still pray. People can still read the bible. A church that has enough money to build a structure of such extravagance can afford to host something online.

    4) No one is being denied their first amendment rights.

    Amendment One: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    PS: Regarding your answer to (1); it's basically easier for the government to make an example of one person in order to frighten the others into compliance.
     
    That would open up a whole new thing and I'm not sure people love their freedom enough to do that.

    However you know if they are coming to arrest your local religious leader, you can easily have some "security" in an over watch position to make them see the "cost" isn't worth it....

    But nobody is willing to go all out yet, because once you do that, it's game on till one side or both sides run out of bodies.
    Yep, that would be a reset moment if there ever was one
     
    • Like
    Reactions: W54/XM-388
    Gathering in large groups is not a requirement of Christianity (the religion they are practicing).

    The very first precept of the Holy Roman Catholic Church is that you shall attend Mass every Sunday

    Now shut the fuck up and crawl back under your liberal rock, you ignorant dumbass
     
    • Like
    Reactions: camotoe
    That would open up a whole new thing and I'm not sure people love their freedom enough to do that.

    However you know if they are coming to arrest your local religious leader, you can easily have some "security" in an over watch position to make them see the "cost" isn't worth it....

    But nobody is willing to go all out yet, because once you do that, it's game on till one side or both sides run out of bodies.

    Perhaps another question is how many cops would be willing to face several hundred armed church members ready to keep one of the people (the Pastor) from getting arrested versus how many of them would call in sick for the day?

    Would the police chief be willing to be the on-site commander to lead the officers below him in attempting to serve a warrant?

    I could see the conversation now:

    Police Chief: "Arrest that man!"

    Officer: "You go first sir!"
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Dpp
    Amendment One: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    PS: Regarding your answer to (1); it's basically easier for the government to make an example of one person in order to frighten the others into compliance.
    Ah, yes, someone finally pointed out the one that actually has an argument. But your "rights" aren't unlimited. The government has to pass tests to ensure that the reason for restricting the right are good and right. Banning large gatherings for a pandemic qualifies.

    1: God is in charge
    2: Doesn’t matter he still persecuted for exercising his rights
    3: shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise. Read the constitution man
    4: yes, they are. See answer 3
    1) No god is my boss
    2) Which is legal in this situation
    3) Which can be restricted for good reason
    4) See answer 3

    The very first precept of the Holy Roman Catholic Church is that you shall attend Mass every Sunday

    Now shut the fuck up and crawl back under your liberal rock, you ignorant dumbass
    The Holy Roman Catholic Church does not say you have to gather in huge groups every Sunday. Says nothing about online mass. Stop trying to kill off humanity with ignorance.
     
    Perhaps another question is how many cops would be willing to face several hundred armed church members ready to keep one of the people (the Pastor) from getting arrested versus how many of them would call in sick for the day?

    That's why to paraphrase a Bible verse, they will come like thieves in the night hoping to pick off the leaders one at a time when all the good peaceful folk are at home or bed.
     
    Mayor DeBlasio has threatened to close down house of worship permanently. He stated;

    "The NYPD, Fire Department, Buildings Department, and everyone has been instructed that if they see worship services going on, they will go to the officials of that congregation, they'll inform them they need to stop the services and disperse..."

    "If that does not happen, they will take additional action up to the point of fines and potentially closing the building permanently,..."


    On the other hand, it's okay for the subways to operate as before.

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/nyc-m...ynagogues-if-they-dont-comply-with-govt-order
     
    Ah, yes, someone finally pointed out the one that actually has an argument. But your "rights" aren't unlimited. The government has to pass tests to ensure that the reason for restricting the right are good and right. Banning large gatherings for a pandemic qualifies.


    1) No god is my boss
    2) Which is legal in this situation
    3) Which can be restricted for good reason
    4) See answer 3


    The Holy Roman Catholic Church does not say you have to gather in huge groups every Sunday. Says nothing about online mass. Stop trying to kill off humanity with ignorance.

    So basically you pretty much clearly staked your position that the constitution does NOT grant any "Inalienable rights".

    You also seem to be justifying your argument based on if "The Holy Roman Catholic Church agrees with the state well by all means that means it's God's will and you should obey the state without question". You'll find this country was founded by many specifically rejecting that argument.

    Because according to you all the rights can be abridged or voided or put on hold "for a good reason".

    There is NOTHING in the constitution which is the ultimate law in the land which allows for it.

    If you think otherwise, show us where it says so IN the Constitution.

    The rest of us REFUSE to give up our inalienable rights to the government because of some stupid panic.
     
    If people were a little more responsible and gave a fuck about their fellow man we would never have to come to a fork in the road such as this. But most people suck and aren’t considerate of anyone but themselves so here we are in a situation where there really is no right answer.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Supersubes
    If people were a little more responsible and gave a fuck about their fellow man we would never have to come to a fork in the road such as this. But most people suck and aren’t considerate of anyone but themselves so here we are in a situation where there really is no right answer.

    Government officials are not immune to that character flaw.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: W54/XM-388
    1: god is not your boss because your a brainwashed slave to the government
    2: only in the eyes of big government slaves. Any law that violates the Law, is not a law but a rule. Thus not legal.
    3: your restrictions violate the Law which again is unlawful.
    4:when your ready to defect from your master, I will be willing to help you learn who is the True Master.
    1) Brainwashed? More like I can think for myself.
    2) You can ban large gatherings under special circumstances. Every level of the government has agreed to this.
    3) Except when it meats exceptions. Which it does.
    4) I don't need a master.

    The government being able to restrict certain rights under extenuating circumstances has existed for ages in this country. If it truly were unrestricted rights, people would have done something by now.
     
    Mayor DeBlasio has threatened to close down house of worship permanently. He stated;

    "The NYPD, Fire Department, Buildings Department, and everyone has been instructed that if they see worship services going on, they will go to the officials of that congregation, they'll inform them they need to stop the services and disperse..."

    "If that does not happen, they will take additional action up to the point of fines and potentially closing the building permanently,..."


    On the other hand, it's okay for the subways to operate as before.

    https://www.theblaze.com/news/nyc-m...ynagogues-if-they-dont-comply-with-govt-order

    It just goes to show, they want to firmly shred the constitution and establish the religion of state worship as supreme above all others.
    EXACTLY like the Communists always do.

    I'm not sure how many freedom loving types are left in NYC, my guess is not enough to stand up to this tyrany, and in NYC "The King's Men" have a near perfect record of "Just following orders", Constitution be damned. (Oh and really enjoying trampling on the constitution when they can).

    Interesting that they are getting the Fire Department in on the government oppression and using the Fire Department as the next line of attack.

    I guess the fire departments are going to have to decide if they want to join the local oppressor squad and help trample the constitution.

    I unfortunately won't hold my breath for them to do the right thing, Their paycheck and their retirement packages and the allure of being able to join the ranks of the heel clickers is probably too strong of a draw.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: gigamortis
    Then there's this:

    Don't forget that the media and government sources also told us that wearing a mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. So why are some private industries stepping up to the plate to crank out masks as fast as AOC opens her mouth with a stupid comment?

    To be honest, I don't know if I can trust what the medical experts are saying as much as the media. I take this stuff seriously and also practice social distancing and proper hygiene.

    I am also an essential employee in my line of work but still practice all of the above when I go to work.

    If this is such a big health emergency, then it probably makes more sense to IDENTIFY and QUARANTINE those individuals with the virus rather than confining healthy people WITHOUT the virus.
     
    The Holy Roman Catholic Church does not say you have to gather in huge groups every Sunday. Says nothing about online mass. Stop trying to kill off humanity with ignorance.
    You are the last person I would listen to about the Cathechism.

    Quite honestly, anyone shutting down a congregation needs to be shot in the fucking face. If you feel so strongly about congregations being a public health danger, step the fuck up to the plate.
     
    Here in AZ, we go into 'stay at home' mode today at 5pm, according to the Governor's executive order. In essence, it's a modified/involuntary house arrest.

    I might/could get annoyed at this except for one thing. As of today, our household voluntarily adopted precisely this same regimen 12 days ago. Our VFW decided to close for the good of its membership at that time, and just about all of us adopted this policy privately.

    Why mention the VFW? I do because in our town, that's our central organization.

    So, for us; there is effectively no change whatsoever.

    Yesterday, the county's infected count incremented from 3 to 4. They're essentially at the Army Base, about 70 miles from our village.

    I can see that folks are getting confused and annoyed over the changes in their lifestyles. It makes sense, folks are going through really scary times right now.

    I look at the demands and the options, and I base my decisions on one question. What's best for my family?

    It often makes better sense for me to back down and concede that right or wrong, sometimes my own preferences need to take a back seat.

    We need to recognize that each of us can be, and sometimes are wrong. It's a crucial part of behaving with maturity.

    Greg
     
    • Love
    Reactions: supercorndogs
    As I read this, and look at the title, balancing.....

    Balancing a new tire sometimes requires adding weight to one side, and that weight moves around.

    As the tire wears, more or less weighting may be required.

    In other endeavors, sometimes weights must be added in different places to maintain balance.

    Sometimes weights must shift to maintain balance.

    What causes the imbalance may sometimes be fixed and no weights are required.

    Sometimes things spin out of control and become unbalanced. A reasonable spin 'stop' must occur without destroying the spinner, and sometimes weights restore balance, sometimes a repair restores balance, and sometimes a replacement is needed.

    In a perfect world, no weights are needed to maintain balance.
    Our world is imperfect. We need some weights. Human history has proved it, repeatedly.

    The virus has unbalanced us. The restrictions are the weights to restore balance until the blemish is repaired, restored, or removed, and at such time, the restrictions (weights) should be removed.
    Allowing them to stay creates a greater imbalance requiring more weights in a different place to offset the poorly placed weights.

    Reasoned weights have a place.

    Excessive weights are a burden, a problem, and can destroy the function.

    Nuanced, we accept weights that assist us.

    Further nuanced, all of us want the source of excessive weights that pull US down, we want that source to drown in shallow water while WE cheer them in their due.

    The varied postings here are indicative of the effects of the weights previously carried by the posters.
    One poster under harsher weight, will respond more strongly than one who either knows no weight or has only carried light loads.

    My middle weight, to me, is equal to mrX light weight as is to him, and our weights are equal to us, as mrZ's heavy weight is to him.
    All of us express our weights (different in reality) as equal, in our limited abilities to articulate to others ability to understand.

    Misunderstandings where one entity attempts to force their weight solution to solve my weight problem (lost balance)(Its reality unrecognizable by THEM), onto me, might result in an ugly end, to either of us, when the balance is destroyed by zealots who have the only answer.

    The zealot who insists their absolute is the only answer to the balance, is the real problem.
    The zealot hates us, we hate him, we will never agree. Enough of us may render him weightless and restore the balance. 100 years from now, no one will know or care that we or the zealot existed, only that balance was restored,
    that allowed them to exist 100 years from now.

    The weights will shift here, up down side to side and back and forth before the virus is handled and balance restored. The U.S. history backs this up.

    This attempt to calm the frustration shown here is done, for now.
    Go do something POSITIVE for yourselves. Then do something POSITIVE for another. Find a friend to help you through.
    My Brother Hide FRIENDS !!!
     
    Our rights come with a thing called personal responsibility. The less liberty we have the more it becomes someone else's responsibility to look out for, and protect ourselves. Kind of like the parent child relationship.

    The problem we face is we no longer have rights, and we have adults (children) looking for the government (mom n dad) to protect them, and tell them what to do because it is not their responsibility.

    If our society had fully matured we wouldn't need the government locking us down, and restricting our yard time.
     
    Don't forget that the media and government sources also told us that wearing a mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. So why are some private industries stepping up to the plate to crank out masks as fast as AOC opens her mouth with a stupid comment?

    To be honest, I don't know if I can trust what the medical experts are saying as much as the media. I take this stuff seriously and also practice social distancing and proper hygiene.

    I am also an essential employee in my line of work but still practice all of the above when I go to work.

    If this is such a big health emergency, then it probably makes more sense to IDENTIFY and QUARANTINE those individuals with the virus rather than confining healthy people WITHOUT the virus.


    Mask doesn't prevent the spread.

    But, it can restrict it long enough to decontaminate and remove the virus from the individual mask wearer.

    Improper mask use and improper decontamination, enhance the spread.
    Thus, medical professionals following established protocols benefit from the mask restricting the passage of virus allowing effective decontamination.

    Works with NBC weapons, works with virus, bacteria, yada... proven tactic and technique.
     
    My parents church has an aged population, the community at large is rural and pretty old. They have very little money, but everyone scraped together and did a drive in service. Everyone was proud, everyone rejoiced, everyone was safe.

    It is my opinion that these mega churches are less about following Christ and more about making money, and that the only reason they did what they did is to continue lining their pockets.

    I don’t know how you deal with people taking advantage and endangering good folk in the name of religion, it’s a difficult road to walk. In the end I think you mostly don’t, but then we get to play the what counts as a religion game and that’s even more fun.

    I think this example is more about freedom of assembly and less about freedom of religion, none of those in the congregation were disciplined, only the leader who endangered them. I still don’t think it is warranted, and do not see it as a punishable offense but it’s not the war on Christ many want it to be.
     
    All fine and good with a tire. We are dealing with government and they have never given back what they take.

    AAAANNNDDDD, that's our responsibility to put the weight pushing .gov back in their place, our citizens job, to restore the balance.

    A number of citizens have abrogated that responsibility.

    Tire or .gov, same shit, different medium, the peoples actions are required to fix it.

    George Washington, wagon wheel, king George. Same shit, different century.
     
    Last edited: