Balancing Constitutional Rights versus Public Health

Dippy

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1) Brainwashed? More like I can think for myself.
2) You can ban large gatherings under special circumstances. Every level of the government has agreed to this.
3) Except when it meats exceptions. Which it does.
4) I don't need a master.

The government being able to restrict certain rights under extenuating circumstances has existed for ages in this country. If it truly were unrestricted rights, people would have done something by now.
My hand has been extended friend. You’re always welcome.

For someone who doesn’t need a master and can think for themselves, sure is tooting the horn of your master....
 
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Longshot231

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Then there's this:
Don't forget that the media and government sources also told us that wearing a mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. So why are some private industries stepping up to the plate to crank out masks as fast as AOC opens her mouth with a stupid comment?

To be honest, I don't know if I can trust what the medical experts are saying as much as the media. I take this stuff seriously and also practice social distancing and proper hygiene.

I am also an essential employee in my line of work but still practice all of the above when I go to work.

If this is such a big health emergency, then it probably makes more sense to IDENTIFY and QUARANTINE those individuals with the virus rather than confining healthy people WITHOUT the virus.
 

308pirate

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The Holy Roman Catholic Church does not say you have to gather in huge groups every Sunday. Says nothing about online mass. Stop trying to kill off humanity with ignorance.
You are the last person I would listen to about the Cathechism.

Quite honestly, anyone shutting down a congregation needs to be shot in the fucking face. If you feel so strongly about congregations being a public health danger, step the fuck up to the plate.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Arizona, good place for me...
Here in AZ, we go into 'stay at home' mode today at 5pm, according to the Governor's executive order. In essence, it's a modified/involuntary house arrest.

I might/could get annoyed at this except for one thing. As of today, our household voluntarily adopted precisely this same regimen 12 days ago. Our VFW decided to close for the good of its membership at that time, and just about all of us adopted this policy privately.

Why mention the VFW? I do because in our town, that's our central organization.

So, for us; there is effectively no change whatsoever.

Yesterday, the county's infected count incremented from 3 to 4. They're essentially at the Army Base, about 70 miles from our village.

I can see that folks are getting confused and annoyed over the changes in their lifestyles. It makes sense, folks are going through really scary times right now.

I look at the demands and the options, and I base my decisions on one question. What's best for my family?

It often makes better sense for me to back down and concede that right or wrong, sometimes my own preferences need to take a back seat.

We need to recognize that each of us can be, and sometimes are wrong. It's a crucial part of behaving with maturity.

Greg
 
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j-huskey

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As I read this, and look at the title, balancing.....

Balancing a new tire sometimes requires adding weight to one side, and that weight moves around.

As the tire wears, more or less weighting may be required.

In other endeavors, sometimes weights must be added in different places to maintain balance.

Sometimes weights must shift to maintain balance.

What causes the imbalance may sometimes be fixed and no weights are required.

Sometimes things spin out of control and become unbalanced. A reasonable spin 'stop' must occur without destroying the spinner, and sometimes weights restore balance, sometimes a repair restores balance, and sometimes a replacement is needed.

In a perfect world, no weights are needed to maintain balance.
Our world is imperfect. We need some weights. Human history has proved it, repeatedly.

The virus has unbalanced us. The restrictions are the weights to restore balance until the blemish is repaired, restored, or removed, and at such time, the restrictions (weights) should be removed.
Allowing them to stay creates a greater imbalance requiring more weights in a different place to offset the poorly placed weights.

Reasoned weights have a place.

Excessive weights are a burden, a problem, and can destroy the function.

Nuanced, we accept weights that assist us.

Further nuanced, all of us want the source of excessive weights that pull US down, we want that source to drown in shallow water while WE cheer them in their due.

The varied postings here are indicative of the effects of the weights previously carried by the posters.
One poster under harsher weight, will respond more strongly than one who either knows no weight or has only carried light loads.

My middle weight, to me, is equal to mrX light weight as is to him, and our weights are equal to us, as mrZ's heavy weight is to him.
All of us express our weights (different in reality) as equal, in our limited abilities to articulate to others ability to understand.

Misunderstandings where one entity attempts to force their weight solution to solve my weight problem (lost balance)(Its reality unrecognizable by THEM), onto me, might result in an ugly end, to either of us, when the balance is destroyed by zealots who have the only answer.

The zealot who insists their absolute is the only answer to the balance, is the real problem.
The zealot hates us, we hate him, we will never agree. Enough of us may render him weightless and restore the balance. 100 years from now, no one will know or care that we or the zealot existed, only that balance was restored,
that allowed them to exist 100 years from now.

The weights will shift here, up down side to side and back and forth before the virus is handled and balance restored. The U.S. history backs this up.

This attempt to calm the frustration shown here is done, for now.
Go do something POSITIVE for yourselves. Then do something POSITIVE for another. Find a friend to help you through.
My Brother Hide FRIENDS !!!
 

Romeo458

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Our rights come with a thing called personal responsibility. The less liberty we have the more it becomes someone else's responsibility to look out for, and protect ourselves. Kind of like the parent child relationship.

The problem we face is we no longer have rights, and we have adults (children) looking for the government (mom n dad) to protect them, and tell them what to do because it is not their responsibility.

If our society had fully matured we wouldn't need the government locking us down, and restricting our yard time.
 

j-huskey

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Don't forget that the media and government sources also told us that wearing a mask doesn't prevent the spread of the virus. So why are some private industries stepping up to the plate to crank out masks as fast as AOC opens her mouth with a stupid comment?

To be honest, I don't know if I can trust what the medical experts are saying as much as the media. I take this stuff seriously and also practice social distancing and proper hygiene.

I am also an essential employee in my line of work but still practice all of the above when I go to work.

If this is such a big health emergency, then it probably makes more sense to IDENTIFY and QUARANTINE those individuals with the virus rather than confining healthy people WITHOUT the virus.

Mask doesn't prevent the spread.

But, it can restrict it long enough to decontaminate and remove the virus from the individual mask wearer.

Improper mask use and improper decontamination, enhance the spread.
Thus, medical professionals following established protocols benefit from the mask restricting the passage of virus allowing effective decontamination.

Works with NBC weapons, works with virus, bacteria, yada... proven tactic and technique.
 

Jmcmath

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My parents church has an aged population, the community at large is rural and pretty old. They have very little money, but everyone scraped together and did a drive in service. Everyone was proud, everyone rejoiced, everyone was safe.

It is my opinion that these mega churches are less about following Christ and more about making money, and that the only reason they did what they did is to continue lining their pockets.

I don’t know how you deal with people taking advantage and endangering good folk in the name of religion, it’s a difficult road to walk. In the end I think you mostly don’t, but then we get to play the what counts as a religion game and that’s even more fun.

I think this example is more about freedom of assembly and less about freedom of religion, none of those in the congregation were disciplined, only the leader who endangered them. I still don’t think it is warranted, and do not see it as a punishable offense but it’s not the war on Christ many want it to be.
 

j-huskey

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All fine and good with a tire. We are dealing with government and they have never given back what they take.
AAAANNNDDDD, that's our responsibility to put the weight pushing .gov back in their place, our citizens job, to restore the balance.

A number of citizens have abrogated that responsibility.

Tire or .gov, same shit, different medium, the peoples actions are required to fix it.

George Washington, wagon wheel, king George. Same shit, different century.
 
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wade2big

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Because it’s all apart of their plan to control us like fucking sheep. They’ve done scared us into hiding and got the churches shut down.

Fits perfectly into “only the state is to be worshiped, God didn’t save you from the Wuhan virus, the government did”

It’s all fucking creepy, including the people who always cried about having the 2A to protect their rights from the heavy hand of gov. They’re all hiding under protective the hand of government and supporting all this shit.

Government is not going to protect you. Only you can protect yourself. Wash your hands and keep on keeping on. All this shit has been blown out of control to advance the rape our rights agenda.
Dang @Dippy, when did you come to terms with the truth. This seems different than your earlier posts regarding this virus. I’m glad you said this.
 
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Aries256

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Good point, but as one person has said, why is it okay to shutdown churches but let crowds pack the grocery stores, big box stores and places like Walmart?
Church isnt essential, getting groceries and supplies are. They can do video church from home.
 

wade2big

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Here are direct quotes from Judge Nate McDonald (Democrat) from neighboring Matagorda County TX. Disgusting.

“…Let me explain to you what that means. Voluntary is giving you all the credit to make good decisions. I can tell you if in a couple of days some of our bad actors are still making bad decisions, we’re going to make it a little bit tougher for everybody to get around, and we’re going to place you under mandatory shelter-in-place.”

“This isn’t something that is a suggestion, ladies and gentlemen. The governor’s executive order is state law in the state of Texas until further notice,” McDonald said. “…So, ladies and gentlemen, what I am telling you this afternoon is that we are going to ask the sheriff of Matagorda County to double down. To start arresting people and start issuing citations for those of you who refuse to follow the governor’s emergency order … We’ve had enough. We’re done with coddling you. We’re about to bring the force of law to Matagorda County.”
 
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Dippy

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Dang @Dippy, when did you come to terms with the truth. This seems different than your earlier posts regarding this virus. I’m glad you said this.
In the beginning, I thought this is BS.

As it advanced and the panic set in I thought, well shucks we might have a problem on our hands. Not that I was panicked.

Now, Im disgusted with all of the abuse of power in the name of false security I’m witnessing with my eyes. I see all kinds of guys who I’ve thought stood for liberty, hiding under the guise “protection”.

Dippy don’t like being told no church unless you want to face jail and fine. Sunday morning around my Christian brothers and sisters is what keeps my calm cool and collective nature going.

My Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing alarm is going off
 

W54/XM-388

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Here are direct quotes from Judge Nate McDonald (Democrat) from neighboring Matagorda County TX. Disgusting.

“…Let me explain to you what that means. Voluntary is giving you all the credit to make good decisions. I can tell you if in a couple of days some of our bad actors are still making bad decisions, we’re going to make it a little bit tougher for everybody to get around, and we’re going to place you under mandatory shelter-in-place.”

“This isn’t something that is a suggestion, ladies and gentlemen. The governor’s executive order is state law in the state of Texas until further notice,” McDonald said. “…So, ladies and gentlemen, what I am telling you this afternoon is that we are going to ask the sheriff of Matagorda County to double down. To start arresting people and start issuing citations for those of you who refuse to follow the governor’s emergency order … We’ve had enough. We’re done with coddling you. We’re about to bring the force of law to Matagorda County.”
Typical government types, instead of actually just talking to the folks doing wrong, they can't pass up the opportunity to put the boots to the good citizens instead.
 

Seed tick

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“Washington choir rehearsal linked to Coronavirus outbreak after dozens of members fall ill, 2 die”.
A choir rehearsal in Washington state earlier this month is likely the catalyst for a Coronavirus “is spur-spreading event” after dozens of members fell ill and two died from the infectious disease. Goggle the above. This is what can happen to your brothers and sisters.
 

W54/XM-388

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Church isnt essential, getting groceries and supplies are. They can do video church from home.
Walking around in the store to get groceries and supplies is not "Essential" if you are already at the point of destroying the constitution.

I mean you could just wait in your car for a store employee to set your stuff by your parking spot right?
 
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W54/XM-388

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AAAANNNDDDD, that's our responsibility to put the weight pushing .gov back in their place, our citizens job, to restore the balance.

A number of citizens have abrogated that responsibility.

Tire or .gov, same shit, different medium, the peoples actions are required to fix it.

George Washington, wagon wheel, king George. Same shit, different century.
I'm going to have to seriously disagree with you on your entire idea.

The constitution and our bill of rights was founded on the principles of inalienable rights that could NOT be taken away or modified just because it suited someone at the time. ANY attempt to change that destroys the entire premise.

That is exactly why we no longer for practical purposes have a RIGHT as enshrined by the 2A, too many good folks, agreed that "It just needs a bit of balancing here and there".....

To suggest we should LET the government destroy freedom and liberty over some stupid panic because.... well we should have somebody fight an die later on to get it back... is downright stupid. Your rights can be given away without even doing anything, just your silent consent to say nothing, whereas to get them back requires large amounts of bloodshed in just about all cases.

A lot of people better be really careful how many compromises they make right now, as we are about to set the precedent for a full on police state and people are sleepwalking into it.
 
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Gunfighter14e2

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Church isnt essential, getting groceries and supplies are. They can do video church from home.
I will be the one who decides what is, an is not, essential to me an mine. Not any asshole within or part of the gov. The fucking gov has never once done for me, but damn sure Had/has no issue asking or forcing me to do for it. People who made their own bed are about to lay in same. Same goes for larger groups as well. You can't jail all you want, w/o unintended consequences I can assure you of that.
 
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MTN

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The constitution and our bill of rights was founded on the principles of inalienable rights that could NOT be taken away or modified just because it suited someone at the time. ANY attempt to change that destroys the entire premise.
Attempt? The constitutional tulip bed is being actively trampled and there are only a few whimpers about it on the Internet. Eventually the 1st may be brought into complete control and all premise of anonymity on boards like these may be removed. Most likely it will happen in "your best interests" for peace and safety.

What I do know is we will see the over reaching global government in place for a couple months before people realize being taxed for exhaling C02 is too much and move to shake it off. And even then there is larger trap (solution) planned when that reaction finally kicks into gear. While many are crying about "my constitution" there are those that are 8 steps ahead unless you've read tomorrows newspaper today.
 
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j-huskey

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I'm going to have to seriously disagree with you on your entire idea.

The constitution and our bill of rights was founded on the principles of inalienable rights that could NOT be taken away or modified just because it suited someone at the time. ANY attempt to change that destroys the entire premise.

That is exactly why we no longer for practical purposes have a RIGHT as enshrined by the 2A, too many good folks, agreed that "It just needs a bit of balancing here and there".....

To suggest we should LET the government destroy freedom and liberty over some stupid panic because.... well we should have somebody fight an die later on to get it back... is downright stupid. Your rights can be given away without even doing anything, just your silent consent to say nothing, whereas to get them back requires large amounts of bloodshed in just about all cases.

A lot of people better be really careful how many compromises they make right now, as we are about to set the precedent for a full on police state and people are sleepwalking into it.
Disagree all you want.

You are saying the exact same thing I'm saying, just in your manner of articulating.

People LET the government have that power. People LET the government have that power to fix a problem they as individuals could not.
People did NOT say no when it was time to stop.
And then became dependent, because it got too easy to let the government do it.
People started giving away their unalienable rights the minutes the paper was signed.
That much was clear then, based on the multitude of papers penned by the signers and ratifiers with each arguing their fears of the result.
And it looks like all those fears have happened 200 years later.

If you think I'm suggesting letting them have more power, then perhaps something got lost in translation or your understanding. I am not suggesting that at all.

On the balance thing, sometimes is is absolutely neccessary. Otherwise my black brother would still be a slave, or you might be speaking German or Japanese instead of fractured English.

It is very clear on this board, that a number of people say the exact same thing, a different way, and are attacked when a reader cannot see the other person said the same thing but in their words.
Educational instruction has shown some people can learn by reading, some by seeing, and some by instructed doing.
And the person who learns by seeing or instructional doing may never get the lesson by reading.
10 of us could write the lesson, in their ten different styles, and the result with the visual and doer, would be the same.
And 5 of the 10 writers would find some fault with the other writers.
That is seen on the board every day.

It doesnt bother me that you disagree. We know the same thing. We voice it differently, and that's not a problem with me. I'm not going to let it be, because I have learned different ways to express things reading your writings. Sometimes I steal them bc u said it better and clearer. Sometimes.

It's just if u start acting like centy, I will no longer be stealing your writings. ?
 
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MTN

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I will be the one who decides what is, an is not, essential to me an mine. Not any asshole within or part of the gov. The fucking gov has never once done for me, but damn sure Had/has no issue asking or forcing me to do for it. People who made their own bed are about to lay in same. Same goes for larger groups as well. You can't jail all you want, w/o unintended consequences I can assure you of that.
Securing freedom.

The options are blowing soap bubbles at the hurricane, doing nothing, or bending like a reed to strike truth into your adversary on God’s timeline.

Everyone gets to pick one option. We are going to lose a lot of bubble blowers in the storm.
 

Longshot231

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This is Nancy Mussolini last month before she found out that she could make use of the panic to gain more control and to take down Trump.


This is Commissar De Blasio before he found out that he could shutdown the churches by capitalizing on the panic. Pay close attention to his opening comments.


This Comrade Cuomo before declaring a state of emergency in order to put himself in the limelight to become the democratic party's rising new star. Pay close attention to what he is saying at about the two minute mark. He repeats his assertion that the lethality rate is low about halfway through the video.

At about 6:30 he talks about how great the state government of New York is working to contain the virus. At about the 10:30 mark the Speaker of the Assembly reassures everyone that the government is ready. At 12:00 Comrade Cuomo tells everyone that the state has the resources to deal with the virus.

The takeaway that I have from this entire video is that he is downplaying any severity with the virus.

 

JMGlasgow

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I'm not religious and detest most religions. However the one thing I'll defend is a persons right to worship however they want, when they want. Throwing aside rights in the name of safety is what has gotten us to this point where everyone lives in fear and gives the government more control and power. How many people died when polio, small pox, malaria, tuberculosis, etc. ran rampant around the world with no known cure? Did we all hibernate in our homes, collapse the economy, ask the government for a handout, or live in fear? Fear is driving this virus, as well as driving people apart. The media and our own government aren't helping either.
 

Aries256

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I will be the one who decides what is, an is not, essential to me an mine. Not any asshole within or part of the gov. The fucking gov has never once done for me, but damn sure Had/has no issue asking or forcing me to do for it. People who made their own bed are about to lay in same. Same goes for larger groups as well. You can't jail all you want, w/o unintended consequences I can assure you of that.
My point is be smart about it, and go video. A 200$ laptop or a phone is all that is needed to do telechurch. No need in risking your family or others for what can be done at home. Tons of churches are doing video broadcast. No one is stopping other methods of doing church (something I would rant against) just stopping mass gatherings. Which given how this virus spreads is wise. No one is stopping one from their religion, they’re trying to contain the virus and keeping it from spreading.
 

W54/XM-388

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Disagree all you want.

You are saying the exact same thing I'm saying, just in your manner of articulating.

People LET the government have that power. People LET the government have that power to fix a problem they as individuals could not.
People did NOT say no when it was time to stop.
And then became dependent, because it got too easy to let the government do it.
People started giving away their unalienable rights the minutes the paper was signed.
That much was clear then, based on the multitude of papers penned by the signers and ratifiers with each arguing their fears of the result.
And it looks like all those fears have happened 200 years later.

If you think I'm suggesting letting them have more power, then perhaps something got lost in translation or your understanding. I am not suggesting that at all.

On the balance thing, sometimes is is absolutely neccessary. Otherwise my black brother would still be a slave, or you might be speaking German or Japanese instead of fractured English.

It is very clear on this board, that a number of people say the exact same thing, a different way, and are attacked when a reader cannot see the other person said the same thing but in their words.
Educational instruction has shown some people can learn by reading, some by seeing, and some by instructed doing.
And the person who learns by seeing or instructional doing may never get the lesson by reading.
10 of us could write the lesson, in their ten different styles, and the result with the visual and doer, would be the same.
And 5 of the 10 writers would find some fault with the other writers.
That is seen on the board every day.

It doesnt bother me that you disagree. We know the same thing. We voice it differently, and that's not a problem with me. I'm not going to let it be, because I have learned different ways to express things reading your writings. Sometimes I steal them bc u said it better and clearer. Sometimes.

It's just if u start acting like centy, I will no longer be stealing your writings. ?
Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

Slavery was one of those things that people didn't take a stand against when it was easy and so it had to be paid for in blood later and we still pay for it in discord to this day. It would have been so much easier to get it done right after the revolutionary war when most understood it was an evil forced on them by the British that really had no place in the country. But a few rich folks really liked their "property", Including unfortunately many of the leaders of the revolution against British tyranny.
 

acudaowner

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when you could choose to help your community or harm it that priest is a stupid gathering many people and exposing them to possible harm when he could for no money hold online services protecting his flock he choose to potentially harm his congregation sounds like an aoc idea Its just stupid , people are stupid if they attend they risk much more than there own lives .
 
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DarnYankeeUSMC

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Yeah I bet it was like Jim Jones there on Sunday.
People still have free will to do what they want.
The greatest part of this country is that you have the right to be stoooopid. Whether you agree with that or not doesn't matter.
Did you know that there's still snake handling churches?
when you could choose to help your community or harm it that priest is a stupid gathering many people and exposing them to possible harm when he could for no money hold online services protecting his flock he choose to potentially harm his congregation sounds like an aoc idea Its just stupid , people are stupid if they attend they risk much more than there own lives .
 

MK20

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For those who say that cops will follow their paycheck and not the Constitution, take a look at this from the U.SC.
CCEC3B49-8C1B-4847-B5B6-255AEA074C60.png
 

myronman3

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I put my faith/fate in the Almighty’s hand’s a long time ago.

Who the fuck am i to say.....this corona virus might just end up saving the republic. If it works it’s way into the halls of congress and the senate, through the corridors of the state capitols and local governments, striking down those who think themselves as untouchable, i wont be sitting by crying.

^ kinda reminds me of the plagues God sent to egypt. Those who had power and were firmly entrenched, weren’t so untouchable after all.

Laugh all you want, because i know there are plenty who will. I’m going to sit back, do what i can to help my neighbor, and try to follow God’s will as best as i can (most times i fail-i am far from a graceful person). And should i be struck down as well, so be it......it’s not like i dont deserve it.
 

Dippy

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People be persecuted for what they are doing. From the bottom to the top.

God bless that Pastor! I called to thank him for standing for liberty.

I’m just plumb tired of this. WAKE UP AMERICA even if your not religious, they are treating us like communist peasants and dictating what rights we have! Welcome to the police state man has suspended our rights. What are we going to sell our rights for next, the threat of 1000 dead, 100 dead, 10 dead or just 1 dead.
 
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MTN

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Could the church problem be that some are elevating their "rights" above wisdom from God?

This aint the place quote the bible and argue, so I won't.

But there is wisdom in that book to consume pertinent to this situation.
 

Dippy

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Could the church problem be that some are elevating their "rights" above wisdom from God?

This aint the place quote the bible and argue, so I won't.

But there is wisdom in that book to consume pertinent to this situation.
It's not “that book” where this is stated.

It’s directly from the DOI. Do you not support this?

We hold these Truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain on unalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
 

Snuby642

Old Salt
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Feb 11, 2017
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It's all about dominance and controll.
A show of power and examples made from serfs.

A common practice, even a sport to some .

People tolerate it till they won't.
 
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MTN

Online Training Member
Online Training Access
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Feb 21, 2018
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Out Fish'n
It's not “that book” where this is stated.

It’s directly from the DOI. Do you not support this?

We hold these Truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their Creator with certain on unalienable rights that among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
God, family, neighbor, then country my friend.

All things in perspective.
 
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Dippy

nope
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God, family, neighbor, then country my friend.

All things in perspective.
Oh, from everything that has been going on I thought it was:

State, there is no god, only the state.

I’m not against keeping people safe, but I am 100% against any government regulation of religion, regardless if times are good or bad.

I was brought up loving America and freedom. I am a patriot. But America and Freedom no longer go together. This isnt liberty