It’s started....

[atomic41]

Thanks for posting that as I was typing my response, you actually reinforced my point. This could very well be an arm up in a defensive position. If that sequence started earlier it would show bear spray closing a lot of distance.
EDIT: Now that I look at the pics again, they were out of order so maybe there aren't pics of bear spray closing the distance? Not sure but if he did, that could be used for shooter's defense.

 

[Bender]

Where is this full video?

 

[jbuck88]

I think that is pieced together from a photo journalist. So no video.

Was the security guy reaching for victims gun when he got slapped?

 

[myronman3]

View attachment 7443574

what did the five fingers say to the face?

 

[Lapuapalooza]

Another thing. The victim was engaged with a verbal with the “black guns matter” t shirt guy. Then the victim disengaged to move over to the shooter and engage him. Now what on earth would private security say to someone in a verbal altercation with someone else whom he is not responsible for in order for this whole thing to erupt as quick as it did?

 

[DocRDS]

I think that is pieced together from a photo journalist. So no video.

Was the security guy reaching for victims gun when he got slapped?

Its on the Denver news website, but after 3 pics i get paywalled

 

[Sniperwannabee]

So the question is, is being slapped worthy of deadly force, not the bear spray like posted on the first page the gun was drawn before the bear spray was discharged

 

[DocRDS]

Ugh way harder than it should be--slowed down.

Seems to be a time jump between pics 9 and 10. (These are still images so...)

like my 10th edit: Anyway looks to me like shooter decided to shoot based on the slap, you can see him going for his gun in frames pics 7,8,9 pre spray.

 

[Zorrosdens]

Victim is veteran and custom cowboy hat maker (crossfire hats)

Military vet shot dead in front of son at Antifa rally

THE right-wing protester allegedly killed by a security guard during clashes with Antifa was shot dead in the head in front of his son. Military veteran and grandad Lee Keltner was shot after macin…

www.the-sun.com

Rest In Peace, Country Boy, Rest In Peace.

 

[atomic41]

I slowed the animated gif down cause it was giving me seizures.

There you go, looks like he is using his arm in a defensive move as I suggested.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Security guard put his hands on victim first, then gets slapped, then security guard draws weapon and fires , and victim discharges pepper spray, guy in the blue shirt is probably the instigator who is probably the reporter

 

[GordonFreeman]

Murder

 

[DuneBoer]

View attachment 7443218
I remain skeptical. Something isn't right here.


Slide in motion, casing appears to have an intact projectile there. Malfunction and clear?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Go use pepper spray on a police officer and see what happens. The most likely justification for the officer's use of deadly force will be some variation on the theme of concern over weapon retention (this was the exact justification for that officer-involved shooting in Atlanta this summer).

Then apply that same logic to an armed civilian, because if that logic applies to a police officer, then it applies to anyone who is legally armed.

Is there no difference between a uniformed police officer and some plain clothed provacature?

And not like there hasnt been like 3 months of riots full of pepper spray. So they could have been stacking bodies this whole time because "what would cops do"??

 

[vh20]

Go use pepper spray on a police officer and see what happens. The most likely justification for the officer's use of deadly force will be some variation on the theme of concern over weapon retention (this was the exact justification for that officer-involved shooting in Atlanta this summer).

Then apply that same logic to an armed civilian, because if that logic applies to a police officer, then it applies to anyone who is legally armed.

I think the gun came out before the spray came up (it was already out but held down), and I think the spray came up in reaction to the gun being drawn.

 

[Meety Peety]

As noted previously, pics 1 and 2 are out of order. Put in order.. the slap occurs, the decease immediately steps back, shooter advances. The draw begins before spray is raised, retaliatory response to the slap. In the image with the spent casing, the slide is returning to battery, not on its way back.

 

[SilentStalkr]

In any state, is pepper spray a justified reason to shoot someone?

Well, I have been sprayed by several skunks at arms length distance. They still alive.

Depends on who is getting sprayed?

Not saying this about SH members, but I think a lot of folk think only "right wing kooks" go to the range and train or have had "formal training." However, I'm willing to bet a higher percentage of the left than most think has also had training - formal (as in a recognized facility) or through former LE/Mil that do have a leftist view (it happens). Pretty sure, though my last training was a while ago, when I mention I've had some...there are some immediate "eye rolls" and then you get labeled - even by people who are not leftists.

Also the magnitude of shows on TV about self-defense, shooting, 3-gun is staggering and I'm sure this isn't lost on people that choose to use their 2nd Amendment right to actually subvert The Constitution.

So highly likely this person had some type of training and wasn't just a "mall cop." Personally I don't want a RDS on my handgun (call me weird) but it does show a level of "technology" that is a bit more than I'd personally think some green-violet haired ANTIFA member would have.

ps...maybe if I had some time behind a RDS on a handgun I'd change my mind.

According to those I know in the industry, lots and lots of lefties have been training, taking classes and so on, for a long time. They are arguably better trained than a lot of their right wing counterparts. I’m also told they ain’t afraid to spend money and always have topnotch gear. ‍♂

Thanks for posting that as I was typing my response, you actually reinforced my point. This could very well be an arm up in a defensive position. If that sequence started earlier it would show bear spray closing a lot of distance.
EDIT: Now that I look at the pics again, they were out of order so maybe there aren't pics of bear spray closing the distance? Not sure but if he did, that could be used for shooter's defense.

Out of order but let’s assume for a moment that you were right. Why would pepper spray man leave one altercation and move towards and single this guy out? Doesn’t make any sense unless he was just mad and wanted to slap whoever he came across. But the frames seem to infer that the shooter grabbed him first, likely to get him to move back from blue shirt. Redneck didn’t like him placing his hand on him and therefore slapped homie. That in no way justifies deadly force. If that was the case plenty of people would be racking up bodies in high school. Funny how times have changed. Back in my day, people had a dispute, beat the shit out of each other then hugged it out and that was that. Now it seems nobody can take getting punched, insulted or whatever without someone pulling out a gun. There is no way in my mind that deadly force could be justified here. If that is the case, like I said earlier, Kyle R should be released immediately.

Another thing. The victim was engaged with a verbal with the “black guns matter” t shirt guy. Then the victim disengaged to move over to the shooter and engage him. Now what on earth would private security say to someone in a verbal altercation with someone else whom he is not responsible for in order for this whole thing to erupt as quick as it did?

Ding ding ding!

I think the gun came out before the spray came up (it was already out but held down), and I think the spray came up in reaction to the gun being drawn.

Certainly looks that way to me. my guess is the argument is going to be made that he was worried dude would take his gun and use it against him and therefore that is why he thought deadly force was required. looks like murder to me. Imo, there was not reason for deadly force here. Looks to me like he got slapped, didn’t like it and boom.

 

[DuneBoer]

As noted previously, pics 1 and 2 are out of order. Put in order.. the slap occurs, the decease immediately steps back, shooter advances. The draw begins before spray is raised, retaliatory response to the slap. In the image with the spent casing, the slide is returning to battery, not on its way back.

Doesn't look like a spent case to me. Looks like a loaded one.

 

[Meety Peety]

Doesn't look like a spent case to me. Looks like a loaded one.

I agree it does look that way. But given the location/position of the round in the air, and his grip, I'm thinking the image blur theory posted early makes more sense. Unless this guy has the world's fastest tap rack time and he managed to clear a malfunction and get back to a full shooting grip on target before the round got more than a foot away from the chamber (and before the gun returned to battery lol). Could be, but I'm thinking unlikely.

 

[TexPatriot]

That shooting was a pre planned hit. The loud mouth that was baiting the Patriot to 'mace me mf'r' knew there was a shooter a few feet away waiting to shoot the Patriot if he did. "Fuck around and find out" as he glanced to the shooter to check see if he was ready.

That shooter was good. I've trained for over a quarter a century doing one shot draws, timed against and beating a mouthy World Champion IPSC shooter to prove I was faster, and that shooter was as fast as either of us. And we were drawing from OC holsters.

 

[DuneBoer]

I agree it does look that way. But given the location/position of the round in the air, and his grip, I'm thinking the image blur theory posted early makes more sense. Unless this guy has the world's fastest tap rack time and he managed to clear a malfunction and get back to a full shooting grip on target before the round got more than a foot away from the chamber (and before the gun returned to battery lol). Could be, but I'm thinking unlikely.

Theatrical blanks.

.40 ACP Brass Blank Ammunition

.40 S&W Brass Blank Ammunition (For use in Real Automatics) Bag of 50 Our .40 S&Ws are for use in any .40 S&W automatic firearm. These cartridges will not cycle automatically without the use of an adapter of blank barrel.

www.westernstageprops.com

 

[Sniperwannabee]

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Well, I have been sprayed by several skunks at arms length distance. They still alive.


According to those I know in the industry, lots and lots of lefties have been training, taking classes and so on, for a long time. They are arguably better trained than a lot of their right wing counterparts. I’m also told they ain’t afraid to spend money and always have topnotch gear. ‍♂



Out of order but let’s assume for a moment that you were right. Why would pepper spray man leave one altercation and move towards and single this guy out? Doesn’t make any sense unless he was just mad and wanted to slap whoever he came across. But the frames seem to infer that the shooter grabbed him first, likely to get him to move back from blue shirt. Redneck didn’t like him placing his hand on him and therefore slapped homie. That in no way justifies deadly force. If that was the case plenty of people would be racking up bodies in high school. Funny how times have changed. Back in my day, people had a dispute, beat the shit out of each other then hugged it out and that was that. Now it seems nobody can take getting punched, insulted or whatever without someone pulling out a gun. There is no way in my mind that deadly force could be justified here. If that is the case, like I said earlier, Kyle R should be released immediately.



Ding ding ding!



Certainly looks that way to me. my guess is the argument is going to be made that he was worried dude would take his gun and use it against him and therefore that is why he thought deadly force was required. looks like murder to me. Imo, there was not reason for deadly force here. Looks to me like he got slapped, didn’t like it and boom.

Even if it’s true lately, that more leftists are getting firearms training than “conservatives”(which I don’t really think it is), they’d still be playing catch up by a huge amount. One of the core beliefs of the left is banning firearms, yet they’ve supposedly completely taken over the 2A community and training world now?
I’ll just say that while yes there has been a few leftists, that definitely ain’t what I’ve observed.

Who knows, maybe Chase Stroud and Frank Galli are actually Bernie bro’s..! And John Whidden voted Hillary! LOL

 

[jakelly]

Well, I don’t know how well trained the leftists are. I don’t know their capabilities when they’re just f—king around, but I certainly know their capabilities when they’re not f—king around...

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Well, I don’t know how well trained the leftists are. I don’t know their capabilities when they’re just f—king around, but I certainly know their capabilities when they’re not f—king around...

They've been not fckn around for quite a while IMO. Full on media assault on Trump, attempted impeachment of Trump, etc. If Trump loses, bet your ass they're gonna prosecute him on any and every BS charge they can think of. Guaranteed, we will see Trumo behind bars if he loses the election. Trump voters will likely be doxxed and harassed by the mob if we lose.
Thats kinda my point. While the left has control of the media and big tech, along with the leadership of the FBI and much if not most of the military leadership, theres more gun owners, trained shooters, and combat vets on the right. Thats pretty much our only advantage, and our most important advantage IMO. Most everything else is stacked against us. Id also say theres quite a bit more police on the right than the left, but they've shown they will stand down and barely ever do whats right when ordered to make a politically motivated arrest at the behest of leftist DA or mayor. The cops in Portland have been deputized as feds tho, and they're doing God's work hitting Antifa hard.

I suppose I should qualify, when I say leftist, I dont mean every single Biden voter. Im specifically talking about politically active hardcore socialists, the ones who are actively taking part in the insurrection and would wholly support complete elimination of the entire constitution. They need to be snuffed like a candle. As retarded as it is, and completely against their own self interests for a gun owner to vote for Biden, that dont mean they should be arrested or possibly killed for it. Its important to have both a left and right. If there wasnt leftists constantly attacking 2A, our conservative politicians would get lazy protecting said 2A and likely take it away from us completely(yes theyve done a shit job protecting it, but at least its mostly still there).

 

[jakelly]

Yeah, I agree with you. I’ve been aware of the anti-American conspiracy for many years now (read The creature from Jekyll Island almost 15 years ago).

I was poking fun at the NFAC (Not F—cking Around Coalition) for shooting three or four of themselves at a rally. Given the state of their equipment, that actually seemed like a low number.

 

[Longshot231]

The leftist want to point out that the so-called security guard (aka ANTIF) had a right to defend himself. So did Kyle Rittenhouse.

More analysis of the shooting that the media is ignoring...

 

[FS1]

Not a security guard...The plot thickens.

Suspect in Denver shooting not a licensed security guard: report

Matthew Robert Dolloff was reportedly working as a contracted security guard for 9News

www.foxnews.com

 

[Bender]

Theatrical blanks.

.40 ACP Brass Blank Ammunition

.40 S&W Brass Blank Ammunition (For use in Real Automatics) Bag of 50 Our .40 S&Ws are for use in any .40 S&W automatic firearm. These cartridges will not cycle automatically without the use of an adapter of blank barrel.

www.westernstageprops.com

View attachment 7443921

Oh shit. Here comes the tinfoil!!!!

 

[OldSalty2]

Not a security guard...The plot thickens.

Suspect in Denver shooting not a licensed security guard: report

Matthew Robert Dolloff was reportedly working as a contracted security guard for 9News

www.foxnews.com

Me thinks reporter and security guy are bros. Reporter been expensing security costs and hiring his bro. The news agency maybe didnt completely vet who reporter was hiring. Either because reporter lied about it, or because the news agency was complicit and never demanded "proof" that security was properly licensed etc.

 

[Fig]

I can’t believe ANYONE on here would be defending this commie, filth, murderer. “Well, I don’t support what the Nazis are doing to the Jews, but not all Nazis are bad.” With months of insurrection, and 40 people confirmed murdered by ANTIFA it’s a little late to be able to say some stupid shit like that.

I get playing Devils Advocate, but this shit is a ridiculous reach. There is NOTHING there that in any way that resembles life or death till the murder.

That commentary reminds me of the Rodney King trial where the cops lawyers slowed down the beating and tried to claim that every time a pr24 fell that King moved and that constituted resisting arrest. Bullshit.

When I was a junior in HS a kid slapped me. He was flat on his back with a bloody nose before before either of us knew what happened. I just swung without thinking. I was already pissed, and did not expect to be slapped. Punched? Maybe, but the slap was more shocking. You only slap someone who is not a threat. This reminded me of that.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Me thinks reporter and security guy are bros. Reporter been expensing security costs and hiring his bro. The news agency maybe didnt completely vet who reporter was hiring. Either because reporter lied about it, or because the news agency was complicit and never demanded "proof" that security was properly licensed etc.

Probably right.. What a idiot. Hope the Bernie bro is proud of himself, he’s gonna be with the big boys now. Can’t imagine the AB has much sympathy or patience for BLM supporting race traitors LOL. If that dumbass thought Trump supporters were racist, just wait for the treat he’s in for upon entering the mega racist prison world.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I can’t believe ANYONE on here would be defending this commie, filth, murderer. “Well, I don’t support what the Nazis are doing to the Jews, but not all Nazis are bad.” With months of insurrection, and 40 people confirmed murdered by ANTIFA it’s a little late to be able to say some stupid shit like that.

I get playing Devils Advocate, but this shit is a ridiculous reach. There is NOTHING there that in any way that resembles life or death till the murder.

That commentary reminds me of the Rodney King trial where the cops lawyers slowed down the beating and tried to claim that every time a pr24 fell that King moved and that constituted resisting arrest. Bullshit.

When I was a junior in HS a kid slapped me. He was flat on his back with a bloody nose before before either of us knew what happened. I just swung without thinking. I was already pissed, and did not expect to be slapped. Punched? Maybe, but the slap was more shocking. You only slap someone who is not a threat. This reminded me of that.

Exactly. Put his head on a fckn spike. Along with every other commie trying to overthrow the government

 

[jakelly]

It’s truly shocking to me that the news station isn’t trying to distance themselves from the shooter. It’s like they’re saying, “No, we’re liable here.”
Uhhmmm ok.

 

[OldSalty2]

There you go, looks like he is using his arm in a defensive move as I suggested.

If thats what you see.


Defensive or not, he put his hands on victim FIRST before victim pimp handed him. The slap was basically to say do not touch me.

Shooter was shocked that he got slapped. Probably humiliated in front of his bros and was pissed off. Being slapped like that you can see his manhood escaping his body. Shooters reaction rage.

He drew and fired although victim has already taken several steps back after creating separation with slap. Victim saw the drawn gun and tried to spray. Shooter head shot victim.

Look at shooters eyes. He was so out of it with rage, but he then realized what the fuck he just did. He also at that time probably realized he just really, really fucked up.

 

[jakelly]

Me thinks reporter and security guy are bros. Reporter been expensing security costs and hiring his bro. The news agency maybe didnt completely vet who reporter was hiring. Either because reporter lied about it, or because the news agency was complicit and never demanded "proof" that security was properly licensed etc.

The more that comes out, the more this seems like the case. I would be willing to bet pics, texts, etc will emerge showing these two weren’t just professionally linked.

 

[Fig]

It’s truly shocking to me that the news station isn’t trying to distance themselves from the shooter. It’s like their saying, “No, we’re liable here.”
Uhhmmm ok.

They’re totally fucked. That family just acquired a Denver News station.

 

[FS1]

If that were a Trump supporter with the pistol...The DA would argue that RMR is proof he was a premeditated assassin.

 

[Dunraven]

I fear no action will be taken by the DA in this too-blue state; that it will be ruled self defense.

 

[Dunraven]

You want to win the day? Get out and vote. Get two friends to vote. Have them get two friends and so on.

too late for voting. it just keeps the masses thinking that it actually matters.

 

[TexPatriot]

Military vet shot dead in front of son at Antifa rally

THE right-wing protester allegedly killed by a security guard during clashes with Antifa was shot dead in the head in front of his son. Military veteran and grandad Lee Keltner was shot after macin…

www.the-sun.com

[/QUOTE]
Aw, damn. RIP Brother.

Thats two Patriots the communists owe us.

Leave the bear spray at home, boys. It'll tie up your hands and get you killed. Antifa has designated shooters in the crowds. Consider everyone as armed and wearing soft armor.

If you have to bitch slap a commie, expect it to be the start of a gunfight and act accordingly..

 

[atomic41]

If thats what you see.


Defensive or not, he put his hands on victim FIRST before victim pimp handed him. The slap was basically to say do not touch me.

Shooter was shocked that he got slapped. Probably humiliated in front of his bros and was pissed off. Being slapped like that you can see his manhood escaping his body. Shooters reaction rage.

He drew and fired although victim has already taken several steps back after creating separation with slap. Victim saw the drawn gun and tried to spray. Shooter head shot victim.

Look at shooters eyes. He was so out of it with rage, but he then realized what the fuck he just did. He also at that time probably realized he just really, really fucked up.

Yeah maybe and this case could go either way. I'm not arguing against you, and as I stated before I have no dog in this fight. I'm providing an objective couch-level detective analysis that will be used by the defense. This shooter is in friendly territory and will have big money backing him and buying the best legal defense that money can acquire. That defense team will likely argue -

- "hired security" guard doing the Lord's work of protecting the truth tellers (lying communist news hacks), was charged by angry 280 lb biker with bear spray and gun. The mean biker was already challenging people to fights.
- Security guard puts hand up in a defensive posture to stop the charging bull
- Giant aggressive biker hits security guard, then steps back to spray
- Security guard is shaken and now "fears for his life", draws gun and defends his life and the truth teller warriors he's hired to protect

Dude, this is just how the defense will likely roll and the photos can support that story (true or not). Remember, as soon as the incident is over it gets turned over to the circus. This is entertainment, I'm not arguing that he wasn't reaching nor am I defending him I hope that's clear.

 

[OldSalty2]

Yeah maybe and this case could go either way. I'm not arguing against you, and as I stated before I have no dog in this fight. I'm providing an objective couch-level detective analysis that will be used by the defense. This shooter is in friendly territory and will have big money backing him and buying the best legal defense that money can acquire. That defense team will likely argue -

- "hired security" guard doing the Lord's work of protecting the truth tellers (lying communist news hacks), was charged by angry 280 lb biker with bear spray and gun.
- Security guard puts hand up in a defensive posture to stop the charging bull
- Giant aggressive biker hits security guard, then steps back to spray
- Security guard is shaken and now "fears for his life", draws gun and defends his life and the truth teller warriors he's hired to protect

Dude, this is just how the defense will likely roll and the photos can support that story (true or not). Remember, as soon as the incident is over it gets turned over to the circus. This is entertainment, I'm not arguing that he wasn't reaching nor am I defending him I hope that's clear.

Dont really see victim "charging". He may have been approaching but charging sorta implies things, yeah?

Interesting prospect if he walks (especially in colorado). Takes things to level-3.

 

[TexPatriot]

In one frame it appears the shooter's gun has a Polymer80 frame by the looks of the trigger guard.

 

[powdahound76]

Beth McCann is the Denver DA

I dont agree with everything she does, and she seems to follow the LAW a fair amount of the time.
Not always. But better than most Democrat DA’s.

Have even seen her refuse to charge a guy in a self defense shooting. Said it was justified

 

[atomic41]

Dont really see victim "charging". He may have been approaching but charging sorta implies things, yeah?

Interesting prospect if he walks (especially in colorado). Takes things to level-3.

We don't see him charging you are correct, that's the point. There is a gap in the evidence (so far) from him stepping away from video and the slap. The defense will use that gap to say he charged and attacked. As I stated, it's all a circus going forward and how hard lawyers can spin. Witnesses will be key in this. Maybe there is more video or pics to fill that gap. It's all a circus show now!

 

[TexPatriot]

We don't see him charging you are correct, that's the point. There is a gap in the evidence (so far) from him stepping away from video and the slap. The defense will use that gap to say he charged and attacked. As I stated, it's all a circus going forward and how hard lawyers can spin. Witnesses will be key in this. Maybe there is more video or pics to fill that gap. It's all a circus show now!

The fact he approached the shooter and he himself was armed will help the shooter's defense.

 

[Fig]

I checked her out too, and she does not seem like a fanatic. I don't think she's a Soros-backed, ANTIFA DA. She seems to have some allegiance to the law and ACTUAL justice. She is a Democrat machine politician though, and probably will cave if the pressure gets strong enough.

We don't see him charging you are correct, that's the point. There is a gap in the evidence (so far) from him stepping away from video and the slap. The defense will use that gap to say he charged and attacked. As I stated, it's all a circus going forward and how hard lawyers can spin. Witnesses will be key in this. Maybe there is more video or pics to fill that gap. It's all a circus show now!

The photographer was ten feet from both of them. That series of stills shows definitively that Keltner was retreating when Dolloff murdered him.

 

[Mr.BR]

Dont really see victim "charging". He may have been approaching but charging sorta implies things, yeah?

Interesting prospect if he walks (especially in colorado). Takes things to level-3.

In vids prior to this shooting, it seems the 'darwin award winner' is bitching at other folks with that mace in his hand itching for a fight . Even as the shooter will likely do jail time for murder , the victim still falls into play stupid games win stupid prizes category.

These days you have to assume folks in these rallies/protests/lootings are batshit crazy and guns are not exclusive to any group. Why is anyone surprised guns get used in such altercations is beyond me. Do you think anyone is thinking rationally? fuzes are getting shorter, folks will in the heat of the moment use anything including guns.

Gullible folks at these events are just expendable cannon fodder rallied up by the politicians and the media to their bidding, but the mess was cooking up for well over a decade.

usually takes enough bodybags before folks can talk it out.

 

[1500varmint]

I checked her out too, and she does not seem like a fanatic. I don't think she's a Soros-backed, ANTIFA DA. She seems to have some allegiance to the law and ACTUAL justice. She is a Democrat machine politician though, and probably will cave if the pressure gets strong enough.


The photographer was ten feet from both of them. That series of stills shows definitively that Keltner was retreating when Dolloff murdered him.

That's how it appears to me from the stills as well.

- Shooter tries to grab mace from victim
- Victim bitch-slaps shooter
- Shooter draws pistol
- Victim deploys spray
- Shooter shoots