I thought initially that this would not be necessary. Taking a light short approach would be sufficient however that has turned out to not be the case. We have to many bull shitters and wind bags on this forum. The information that would help you is being cluttered by these idiots.
This will get progressively to where you will get present day information. Please take the time to stay with it to the end. I have tried to stay with firearms barrels as much as possible. When you get into general manufacturing things open up into another great world.
Being a Tool and die maker and Metrology Laboratories are both vastly different fields and require different skills. However, the Tool and Die Maker uses both in manufacturing industries. They are split into numerous different groups and we will not go into that here. I am just covering simple straight forward as I can be without all the clutter. These two groups work very heavily with all engineering departments as well.
First off, the “tooling is not cheap” and I have stated that in the past. The Deltronic pins are used to measure a hole that is straight through the material or straight into a material nothing more nothing less. If it is used to measure an angle it is not possible. That is not what it was designed for.
They normally have a green and a red end. Green has a specific dimension as well as red has. Green is normally the “go end” and red is normally the “no go” end. Therefore, they are known as “GO or NO GO gage in the trades. Only lets you know the hole is large enough or not large enough and what the size may be .250 in diameter or may not be .250 in diameter. Will tell you nothing about concentricity nor perpendicularity. Will not tell you anything about wear in a forcing cone area.
As I stated before it is for “Haggie from the east side”. They will not measure a bore land groove relationship nor the groove size. Further they cannot be ground nor made to do so. There way too many variations to even consider this possibility. Think about it. Further you will not be able to get them through a bore and know that the size is. They are only to say the bore is large enough for its passage. In the center it could be fifty thousand .050 to large. It passed the interior. Or it may be too tight it did not make it and it is to tight. But how tight? Give that a little thought.
It has been stated that they must be ground for that purpose. “Show ME” I will apologize.
Then there is the US Government Arsenal barrel gage or throat erosion gage. This wonderful piece of equipment was to help various units in the field determine when it was time to send in their weapons for a new barrel. Nothing more nothing less.
It is a rough gage from 0 to 10 that is all. It only checks the wear on the lands in the forcing cone area. When the wear on the lands was to a pre-determined depth the rifle was returned to the arsenal for a new barrel. It measures nothing in a .001 relationship. It is only saying it needs to be replaced or does not need to be replaced.
This gage does not check concentricity in any way shape or form. Concentricity and cylindricity is the checking of a hole for an out of round condition like an egg or a bad location. The tool does not check a specific dimension you cannot say it is X amount of thousands of wear. It is a “GAGE”. Just like the Deltronic pin.
These two tools the Deltronic Pin and the US Government Arsenal Barrel Gauge are both circa 1940’s and possibly before. Not necessarily under the same names but approximately aged in both cases.
Here is the next step up and it is a mechanical gage that will suffice in many cases to measure the interior of a barrel. If you are able to do this with this simple gage just think of what is possible with an air tester attached. Or a Fanuc control to the same tool rather than that simple gage head. it would measure within millionths. the Fanuc control unit is the control for a Computer Numerical Control machine of any type. There are others as well this is just one control type.
https://willrich.com/product/gun-barrel-diameter-gages/ Now on to the “Air Gauge”. My god dare I use these words. Someone here stated as a
fact that no one has ever used this to check gun barrels and it has been tried and never worked. Well let’s take a very short look at this. Pure bovine fecal material. How do you think they measured these barrels in the past? With a tree branch. How did they keep the barrels consistent prior to 1960. Come on.
Is everyone familiar with Dan Lilja? All who are please raise your hands. OK here we go short version. I have a web site here.
Articles: The Details of Accuracy http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/details_of_accuracy.htm Please scroll down to where you see the paragraph on
Rifling Dimensions. There in the very last sentence you will find this verbiage. “After Lilja or one of his workers judges the inside of a barrel is done, it is checked with the bore scope for blemishes and on a
Shefield air gauge for variations in diameter. The air gauge is set for a known diameter and passed down the barrel. More air passing through the gauge reveals wide spots in the barrel. Less air shows tight spots.
This is the air gauge that Lilja used at this time. They have highly likely moved on to far better equipment at this time. I say this because we are going up to date this measuring method before we come to the end.
Please read through this and open the PDF files at the bottom of the page.
http://dmetool.com/products/rifle-buttons-mandrels/ https://www.pgtgage.com/products-and-services/air-to-electronic-and-sheffield-gages/ This company will make any gauge you wish for any barrel you wish. All you have to do is send them the dimensions you wish and they will of have made it in the past.
http://www.dmetool.com/wp-includes/images/pdf/rifle/RIFLE_gage Model.pdf Some will say these do not measure anything. Well here we are right in the middle. I will not get into this but what would you think of you attached this to an air tool to send into the bore of a rifle barrel. Believe me this happens. And this is only one company. There may be many others out here that manufacture air gage heads that are jeweled and work in the same manner. They are able to run this probe either as an electrical, mechanical or laser product into a barrel and measure the interior within .00001.
http://www.mechatronics.co.th/product-detail.php?id=97956 Yes we have the feeble that will try to pick this apart as well. Here is a head that would be possibly attached that will do the groove as well as the top of the lands for the bore.
Cost? Expensive for the average person. If you are in the business, not so. If you are in the business or thinking about it and can’t afford it you are in the wrong business, period. Run a “trash collection business” it is less expensive to get into and more lucrative.
All of this information is out of the 1950 to 2000 era and not to take a large jump and make this as short as possible and still make the point.
Today 2021, we have these types of measuring devices for barrel interior and measuring. Not only in inspection departments but on the machining equipment itself or not far away from the machine tool. I would have to say almost everything that is in
production is CNC “Computer Numerical Controlled”. For the Tool and Die Makers it is a different story. Some tools are CNC and others are not.
Today due to this CNC Control we have X, Y, and Z axis that is worked with. Known as 3 axis machines and we also have 5 axis equipment. This also applies to the Metrology Laboratory and the Metrologist employee must know these as well. This is one of those pieces of equipment today.
https://machines4sale.com/it/News/46/609 “I believe I am getting to long here so I will even shorten it from original plans”.
Today we also have the inspection equipment that is along the lines of this.
These are some of the latest and to date the best. This does not say there are not more methods because there are many more being developed as we see this.
Yes, these are applicable to rifle barrels due to the 5 axis measuring and machining methods we have present day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate-measuring_machine#:~:text=A coordinate measuring machine (CMM,, laser, and white light.
I have given you access to some of the today equipment necessary. All you really need is someone to give you a direction to the information. You can keep up with it yourself and learn. Just take the time.
This unit is about as good as it gets. Presented here by
Justin Amateur. He is spot on for present day. Not saying something else may not come up that is better just saying today this is one of the best. Things change.
https://www.novacam.com/barrel-inspection-and-3d-measurement/ Another you may be able to relate to is here with H-S Precision.
https://hsprecision.com/resources/3dlc/ These units will give you interior profile graph along with the dimensions from one end to the other within .0001 in the case of the newer units.
What
Justin Amature is doing and his way of measurement the bore scope is perfect for his application. He certainly does not need to purchase a 1.5M piece of equipment to prove anything to the people on this web site because they want to know, or any other. You want that get your ass in gear.
There are many items out here that have not even been mentioned here. So far, I have kept this quite simple and short. Remember I did not say this was cheap or inexpensive from the start and never have said that. Machine and Metrology tools are expensive and require clean and stable environments.
Many of the newer pieces of equipment are laser and there are newer methods as well.
Have I put everything in here that should be? No certainly not however it should give you a slight idea of what is available. Should you add in here "True Position Tolerancing" along with the normal math and CNC control codes it becomes real confusing. Some people make it into these fields, most do not.
Any gunsmith out here putting together a firearm with the cave man tools of yester year is to be avoided completely.
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Now back to the original posters and how many cases on a pallet.