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other anglo saxon troops and snipers

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mosin46

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#1
i just keep wondering why troops and esp snipers from aus,nz and england are so proficient. their shooting skills and effectiveness. goes back to before ww1,eg creedmoor matches,sniping in trenches etc. these countries have been progressing to pretty much totalitarian communist dictatorships. esp true of australia. they gave up their guns with no fight and now are in a stalinist nightmare re CCP virus. england is as bad. got a bud over there (ex foreign legion) who had his demilled AKs taken had to go to collecting demilled lugers and accessories. nz is really no better and we are rapidly going down that drain ourselves. BTW this is in NO WAY a dig on the skill,courage or effectiveness of american troops,pilots,snipers etc. just wondering why those guys have been so talented. russian snipers were very lethal in ww2,mostly via field skills not nec shooting skills IMHO. they didn't know what liberty was. anglo societies should at least have social memories of what real freedom that they have lost is or was. i just don't get it.
www.gunsamerica.com

Sniper Who Broke World Record Reveals Exactly How He Landed Multiple 1.5-Mile Shots

British sniper Craig Harrison revealed this week additional details about his famous 1.5-mile double kill, including his position when he took the shot and how many seconds his bullet was in the air.
www.gunsamerica.com www.gunsamerica.com
 
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#2
When you put a ton of training time into a guy it shows. They take their shooting seriously by all accounts. You also hear about more guys from those countries because their language is English so we naturally hear more stories.
 
#3
The main difference is press coverage , UK yellow press = MSM always eager to report ,and when there is nothing to report they make some shit up like the Royal Marines fucked up USMC so bad that USMC asked if they can suck some RM cock :ROFLMAO:

At present, you can bet your money that most proficient snipers are very likely Ukrainians and their Russian counterparts . Really the only ones that face peer opponents on any major scale on the two-way range in past 2 decades. But those stories never make it into news.
 
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#5
agree hobo. BR what do you think about russia/germany ww2? i believe that a lot of their accounts are propaganda driven tall tales. results of kursk outcome,sniper "kills",heros of socialist labor origins and design of the AK etc. current ukraine vs russia thought makes good sense.
 
#6
Hobo Hilton said:
A lot of that skill comes from the "gene pool"..... All the way back to the Vikings.... They would be just as good with a long bow.... The gene pool of America needs to be back flushed with a good shot of acid and chlorine......
Click to expand...


An Anglo-Saxon archer firing from a substantial distance during the Battle of Stamford Bridge in 1066 nailed the Viking king Harald Hardrada right through the neck, killing him instantly and causing the surviving Norsemen to flee in disarray. During the First Crusade, the main reason why Duke Godfrey and Bohemund de Hauteville were able to get their siege towers right up against Jerusalem's walls so quickly was because Norman archers had effectively wiped the Seljuk and Fatimid defenders off of the ramparts and defensive pigeonholes built into the wall. As soon as a Muslim defender showed himself, BLAM, he is shot dead before he could even draw his own bow because the Crusaders were already aiming at these ports with arrows ready. Bowmen from Normandy, Flanders, and Sicily were key components of the Crusader and Holy Alliance armies for the next several hundred years right into the Ottoman conquests in Eastern and Central Europe.
 
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#9
mosin46 said:
agree hobo. BR what do you think about russia/germany ww2? i believe that a lot of their accounts are propaganda driven tall tales. results of kursk outcome,sniper "kills",heros of socialist labor origins and design of the AK etc. current ukraine vs russia thought makes good sense.
Click to expand...
Soviet lore is practically unknown in the west except for a couple of poster men/women, history books are literally written on German account of the war in the east which was embellished to a considerable degree to a stage where folks really think it was German army vs endless human wave , in reality, considerable numerical disadvantage opens up only in late '44 as a number of axis allies get kicked out of the fight while for much of 1941 Germany actually have the numerical advantage of up to 1:7.1 and Soviet numerical advantage was rarely above 2:1 before end of 1943 (note also that snipers make their mark in defense so once things turn around

*note that the soviet poster men/women you know in the west are all caucasian ethnicity , as these folks served for propaganda in the west as well , but many of their deadliest snipers were soviet far eastern folk these are practically unknown in the west.


THEIS could probably elaborate as he also interacts with some of them but from my experience with them i think that at present few come close to the proficiency of Ukrainians and Russians . In the past they were limited by the gear they had but now both to a degree upgraded with modern western gear.
 
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#10
BR your point about successful russian military people's ethnicity is very interesting. have never seen that discussed before. very likely true. i just have no prev exposure or literature on that issue. also interesting is your reference to the fact that many highly touted russian heroes were white slavs as opposed to eastern peoples for western consumption is also interesting and likely true. again no reading exposure to that but worth some thought and searching. as to who had the "best" army-the russians won,so there you go. best doesn't always win eg US in afganistan,vietnam,korea. the politicians have lost us many armed conflicts. the casualty numbers from my memory are about 8 mil russain and 3.5 mil german. i recall about 70% of germans died in the east. i have no doubt that russia would have been beaten at some point if not for lend/lease and german (not just hitler's) mistakes. glanz and house use newer released russian scources. they don't take sides at all but the outcomes they see do naturally lean russian. nipe,on the other hand,takes a contrarian view from theirs and comes to conclusions that would be labeled revisionist. the earlier stuff-carrel,zemke et al had little access to soviet scources. so,IMHO the "newer" works would have more accuracy.
 
#11
Hi,

As @Mr.BR mentioned....The Russian and Ukrainians are at the moment (like it or not) pretty much leading the world in terms of effective sniper skill and utilization of said skill against worthy enemies.

It really just goes back to the differences of training vs real world experience of being hunted in real life and hunting other people in real life.

At 2010 SHOT Show the Georgian's sent their lead Sniper Instructor over to test different weapon systems for potential procurement. A highly highly regarded USMC Sniper whom has been on pretty much every Discovery and Military Channel show on snipers told this early 30s age Georgian that he would be more than happy to come over and conduct train the trainer courses.
The Georgian looked straight at him and said:
"I have been hunting and hunted by Russians since I was 14 years old, what are you going to teach me?"
"How many years have you been in a pure sniper war campaign without air support, QRF, or unable to rotate back home because the battle is your home?"

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#14
And in Bosnia.
There were some talented snipers there.
Seemed like every family had at least one family member with shooting awards from school.
The amount of pristine Mausers collected were huge.
They were fucken cruel though, both sides played the wound and wait game.
 
#15
kinda O my T but when in C&R had several yugo mauser post war rebuilds very fine work. always thought yugo stuff was top of e.block. applies to their sks,ak,mauser refurbs. they did invent the xd and 1 other nice 9mm that clinton bombed the factory of. did see a few "snipers" but likely fakes done here. zrak scopes almost impossible to find. correct mount? forget it.
 
#16
GrumpyOleFart said:
And in Bosnia.
There were some talented snipers there.
Seemed like every family had at least one family member with shooting awards from school.
The amount of pristine Mausers collected were huge.
They were fucken cruel though, both sides played the wound and wait game.
Click to expand...
Thats what we don't offer, a marksmen class in High School.
 
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#17
mosin46 said:
BR your point about successful russian military people's ethnicity is very interesting. have never seen that discussed before. very likely true. i just have no prev exposure or literature on that issue. also interesting is your reference to the fact that many highly touted russian heroes were white slavs as opposed to eastern peoples for western consumption is also interesting and likely true.
Click to expand...
Far east snipers as some of the most acclaimed in Soviet service is not that surprising as many came from generations of hunters, Russian expansion including into Alaska pre-industrial age was fueled by fur trade and Russians successfully assimilated the indigenous tribes living in these lands. Its quite interesting when you google these they often have Slavic-sounding names so till you see the bio and or the picture can't really tell.

Ever heard of any of these ? Not likely , but i think you can find most of them on wiki ,some have kill counts higher than Zaytsev .
Mikhail Ilyich Surkov
Semyon Danilovich Nomokonov
Fyodor Matveyevich Okhlopkov
Maksim Aleksandrovich Passar
Tsyrendashi Rinchinovich Dorzhiev
Zhambyl Tulaev
 
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#18
heard of pavlichenko & zaytsev only. will research others and their origins.and of course,on the opposite side-winter war only,simo hayha the record holder of all time. sort of the eric hartmann of snipers.
 
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