Oh ok my apologies…you would be correct.
- Thread starter Niles Coyote
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In my Defiance bolt action 223, I use Hornady 88 ELDMs and 90 grain Atips, Both at 2900 FPS.... Granted, the load is as hot as I would ever want it, but primers are not sloppy after 4 or 5 firings, so it can't be too bad.
The mags I use are Accurate Mags... the steel ones with plastic inserts, which I modified so the feed with rounds up to 2.650" OAL.
If I can do this with a 223, then you guys with the 224 Valk should beat that in your sleep.
No I do not have a 224 Valk, but I have seriously considered building one, and the feedback in this thread is throwing me off. I'm sure you guys can do better than I am, but I'm not seeing a significant performance spread to justify the effort of me building another rifle.
I really appreciate your thoughts and insights.
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Lol. Dude, probably 98% of the ppl with a 224Valkyrie are shooting from an AR and those mag restrictions. Even with the mag restrictions on an AR, it’s hanging right there with your 223 bolt gun. You know, kind of what it was designed to do.
If loaded from a bolt gun, there’s no doubt you could get even more performance. 2-3” extra barrel and probably another half grain of powder or more.
I thought the same when I had a 223 AI but I wanted that performance in a gas gun…sadly it just isn’t true. Even loaded long where the end of the boat tail begins to protrude into the powder column it still doesn’t get that level of performance. Now I also don’t have anything longer than 22” as that’s the longest length I’ll do suppressed. So the barrel length handicaps it slightly I’m sure but not 300 fps handicapped for only 4” of barrel difference. Better would have been to use the Grendel case instead of the 6.8 SPC case and I bet the 6mm ARC wouldn’t have even come to fruition. Or maybe it still may have who knows. For what it’s worth if you’re considering a 22 cal wildcat there are better options. Especially in a bolt gun. The only reason why I spun up a 224 Valkyrie barrel was because I had too much invested in it. As in Redding Type S bushing dies, 1000+ pieces of brass all sized, trimmed, annealed because I was doing load development for a gas gun manufacturer. I still like it enough to keep it around because I’ve finally settled on loads that work well and I routinely take it out on either doe culling, coyotes, and hogs without an issue using 88gr ELDM and 85.5gr Berger Hybrids getting roughly 2750ish fps is still a healthy velocity for such high BC .224 bullets. I’ve even developed a load using the 72gr Controlled Choas round at 2970 fps from 22” has taken quite a few bucks and doe. It’s still a step up from the 223 Rem for sure and that’s how I look at it. If pure high performance velocity is what you’re chasing get on the 22GT train that’s the game in town now or if you’re a purist get a fast twist 22-250.
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The 223 suffers from the same short sightedness as the 224 Valk. The cartridge itself is far more capable than the short mag, short action of an AR can cake advantage of. To my mind, running a 223 or 224 Valk in a longer action is all it takes for the round to challenge all other 22 cal options and do it without ridiculously short barrel life like the 22 Creed mentioned above.
I get it though, in its SAAMI spec version in an AR, it just is what it is and really cannot get off first base. Just work with what you have is all you can do. But, I'd really like to see a long throat long action AR version in 224 Valk... Unfortunately I'm Canadian and such things have been deemed unsuitable for us tax paying peasants by the liberal narcissist political elitists.
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Absolutely thanks! The 22 creed is a mainstay too.
I have the ability to have the free bore extended but I don’t know if the smith has the ability to extend it with a compound throat. As it sits I can already load out to 2.36+ with 90gr SMK and others but then not all of the case neck is being used if that matters or not I don’t know 100%. I think the only step up is to go from the .420” diameter case to the .440” or higher. Either way when this barrel degrades in accuracy I’ll rechamber to either a 22Grendel or 22GT depending on how I feel at the time but for now I think I’ll have a very long barrel life with the 224V and it satisfies my needs.
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All the most popular and long standing cartridges for long range shooting have a balance where the powder charge is one third of the heavy bullet weight, so take a 90 grain round, stuff it in front of 30 grains of powder, and you have a contender. It's for this reason that I've felt the 224 Valk is just about as ideal a round as you will find for 22 centerfire.
It's dimensional proportions do not create feed challenges like some of the other small 22 alternatives and the moderate powder charge is not hard on barrels. So I'm rooting for this round and hope you guys do great things with it.
It's dimensional proportions do not create feed challenges like some of the other small 22 alternatives and the moderate powder charge is not hard on barrels. So I'm rooting for this round and hope you guys do great things with it.
I have been kicking around the idea of a bigger 22 cal bolt gun build. I really like the idea of either a 22 Creed or a 22-250 AI (using a fast twist barrel). with the supply issues I see that 22 Creed supplies are very thin. I think the 22-250 will still fire standard ammo(and Fireform) and I have seen 22-250 on the shelf locally. I read somewhere that over spinning (some) 22 projos will cause them to grenade?
I see you guys have all the info ....So what's the lowdown? I know there is usually tradeoffs on any selection ?
I see you guys have all the info ....So what's the lowdown? I know there is usually tradeoffs on any selection ?
High BC has a bigger payoff than the quest for higher velocity.
What you are suggesting will have real low barrel life, so if its for hunting with low round count expectations, it wont matter much. But if you intend to use it for practice and competition, you better spin your barrels up 3 at a time.
You also loose efficiency with large powder charges especially with a small caliber. The powder burn rate has to be slow and slow powder just does not burn as clean as faster powder. That invariably causes accuracy to degrade as the barrel fouls, so you may get good accuracy for a few shots from a clean barrel, but 50 rounds later... not so good,
Personally I would not consider any 22 cal center fire cartridge that requires more than about 30 grains of powder, but that's just my opinion after 25 years of shooting F Class.
What you are suggesting will have real low barrel life, so if its for hunting with low round count expectations, it wont matter much. But if you intend to use it for practice and competition, you better spin your barrels up 3 at a time.
You also loose efficiency with large powder charges especially with a small caliber. The powder burn rate has to be slow and slow powder just does not burn as clean as faster powder. That invariably causes accuracy to degrade as the barrel fouls, so you may get good accuracy for a few shots from a clean barrel, but 50 rounds later... not so good,
Personally I would not consider any 22 cal center fire cartridge that requires more than about 30 grains of powder, but that's just my opinion after 25 years of shooting F Class.
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That’s
I believe you’re right on barrel life with the
I had a 22-250 AI and I did have these issues with the 90gr and 95gr SMK and I also realized that I really didn’t need that much more speed so I went to a 22-250 standard and was much happier there. It was easier to tune, Hybrid 100V is good on the barrel and I found lots of load data that supported the 22-250 fast twist over the 22-250 AI. I also used 4831SC if I’m not mistaking. I had too good of an offer and sold it to a friend that really wanted it more than I did so I let it go but I always think back to it from time to time whenever I’m frustrated with the Valkyrie lol. The Hornady seater die with a Microjust and ELD stem was what I had and just standard 22-250 sizing dies. Lapua brass was also great just wished they made small rifle primer Lapua brass for the 22-250.
Yes I mean…for me maybe and the hand loader.
I have both…I prefer the 6arc for hunting and 224 for target and varminting. The 224 has the edge right now because it’s a 22” bolt gun but the 6ARC is a gas gun…for now.Yup. I have one. Going to shoot it to death then switch to 6 ARC.
Still alive and well. I got mine before 6 Arc was a thing, but after seeing some results at gas gun pressure limits I have no reason to switch. If I could hunt deer or similar with an ar-15, I would go 6.5 Grendel. For just plinking, 224 valk does everything 6 arc does. There are cases that 6 arc makes sense, but not for me.
I agree with the above assessment…I’m starting to see the issues with 6arc on the gas gun platform hindering its performance. Here’s what I’ve got on pressure with a 95gr VLD hunting load I worked up on an 18” Bartlein I’m barely passing 2650 fps with sub moa accuracy at node 6 before the pressure limit. The OBT calculator has really helped with finding nodes but maybe a 22” would do better and I might explore doing a Proof Research Bighorn Origin prefit to load to the higher pressures but then again I ask myself why when I have a 6GT that pushes a 103gr ELDX 2950 from my 22”? In my Bighorn 224V I’m getting 2750 fps from an 88gr ELDM so at this point it surpasses the 6ARC in that configuration and bullets are easy to find in the heavy .224 selection. I prefer the 6ARC in a gas gun with 90 to 95’s just fine and hasn’t showed much better out of a 26 (approx 2655 fps w 108gr ELD) demo gas gun I’ve been testing for a manufacturer.
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I see 6 arc as a compromise cartridge in a gas gun. Ballistics are close to 224 call for longer distance stuff, with energy closer to 6.5 grendel. They are all different enough to have their place.
Couldn’t have said it better. I have a 20” 7.5t 6.5G that I shoot 108gr Lapua Scenars and 107gr TMK at around 2650 fps with SD in the 5 range. Haven’t gotten on a hunt yet but I’m willing to bet it’ll do fine for medium sized game.
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I think the .224 has a place for sure. I’ve been shooting it in both a gas gun and 24” bolt gun since it was released. Currently pushing 88eld’s at 2815fps, but according to quickload I’m over pressure. I have seen some really interesting results lately with guys running custom chambered .223’s and if I was doing it all over again, that maybe the route I go. The .223 SAAMI specs rate it for a higher pressure than the .224. So if you have the ability to load the long heavy bullets far enough out to get enough case capacity with a .223 then there isn’t a a lot of advantage to the .224 in a bolt gun.
Yeah I agree especially with the availability of Lapua brass or even cheaper LC virgin brass. But I dove head first into this cartridge and I ended up with so much stuff for it that I’m kinda stuck. Now as far as pressure goes I can go above SAAMI in a bolt gun just fine and the Valkyrie loaded out long like I have it will have a slight edge on the 223. Case capacity my friend…case capacity.
I’m on the same boat as you. I have a lot invested into the Valk. I get really good performance out of mine. 0.3moa at 600 yards today with a combination of h4895/FGGM primers/88eldms. Reliable hits out to 1000k in probably 8-15mph switchy headwind. The cartridge is great. My wind reading is suspect! I had about 0.4 more wind at 1K than my buddy shooting his 6gt.
I wish they would relaunch the Valkyrie from Federal with a new bullet and just call it Valk 2.0
The misfire during the initial launch broke the idea this is a viable cartridge, and it is, just needs people who shoot to actually help out.
If Federal relaunched the caliber with a 77gr bullet this thing would work, then they need to get with Berger and do the 85.5gr along with the Hornady 88gr, and you have a nice little round.
I still enjoy shooting it
The misfire during the initial launch broke the idea this is a viable cartridge, and it is, just needs people who shoot to actually help out.
If Federal relaunched the caliber with a 77gr bullet this thing would work, then they need to get with Berger and do the 85.5gr along with the Hornady 88gr, and you have a nice little round.
I still enjoy shooting it
Yes…for me it’s here to stay. I prefer the federal brass as it gets more case capacity and I load it with Berger 85.5gr and 88gr ELDM and put of a 22” in around 2780 fps or so.
A lot of guys have had good success with the 80.5 Berger’s, but I haven’t been able to find any in quite some time so I can’t do any testing. Your videos with Brian W. We’re a big part of why I stuck with it when I was having trouble putting together my bolt gun before many people had them. Brian even reached out and spend his own time trying to talk me through some issues. I agree that the sweet spot is somewhere in the 77-85grn range and it makes perfect sense for a cartridge that helps keep me shooting and filling up those mid pack seats on the roster that you always support. Thanks.
I kinda agree. But I think the Valk has been plagued with bad components on the rifle end of accuracy. Most people out there are expecting the cheapest barrels to shoot like their PSA 6.5 creed barrel.
But yeah I'm glad you talked me into my Valk.
I know they are 3 shot groups but there is no cherry picking here. This is a 10 round mag. Shot the first two groups then made a slight adjustment to zero before the third groups and round number 10 is the single in the black dot to confirm my adjustment to zero. The cartridge will shoot, it just got fumbled in the first quarter unfortunately.
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I like my Valkyrie semi. I used a quality barrel by a smith that knew them, Craddock, and it’s a blast to shoot. It’s probably the best intro long range rifle I have. Kids and women like it and flock to me to bask in its’ presence.
Okay, so that last sentence may not be true.
I need to see if there’s a decent BC varmint hunting bullet in the 75-80gr range. I think it would be a decent option for an afternoon of critter gittin’.
Okay, so that last sentence may not be true.
I need to see if there’s a decent BC varmint hunting bullet in the 75-80gr range. I think it would be a decent option for an afternoon of critter gittin’.
Have you tried the federal varmint offering? My semi auto barrel was done by Craddock and it shoots them quite well. Maybe hard to find currently.
Could it be because the Valkyrie’s saami spec is based on the ar15 platform……pretty sure that has an influence……some time soon I want to go through my bolt gun to see how far I can go to hit pressure. .223 saami is probably rated in a bolt gun platform.
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I can tell you that I have no signs of pressure in my bolt gun and mine are above pressure. I’m not advocating others do the same, but I definitely think I could go further. I’ve only been reloading for a few years on a few precision cartridges, so I get uneasy pushing much past published data.
No, I have not. I’ll look into them if they’re available.
Mid south and SGAmmo both have them in stock. $1.15 per. Might be worth a try.
Yes, I am too, I’m shooting 80elds 3000+.
What I meant in my post was that saami pressure spec that is also used in quickload, which is what, 52,000…..unless you change that number. So, in my thoughts, because saami for this cartridge is based off an ar15 it’ll be lower than if it was saami approved for a bolt gun which would be higher. If your running those velocities in an ar15, yes your over, but there is no standardized saami spec for a bolt gun, see what I mean. I was having trouble with ppl on the fuckbook Valkyrie group telling me I’m over pressure but I was not having pressure problems, no issues with primer pockets until like the 4-5 reloading. All I was saying is that the .223 has a saami spec for bolt guns whilst the Valkyrie don’t.
I also have a craddock upper and it’s fantastic. Accuracy and consistency is there.
Ran into some issues hand loading the Hornady 88gr. I pushed them right to max mag length and I was shearing off the plastic tips. I’m thinking that was my issue loading, as I didn’t have that issue with factor ammo.
Other than that it’s been great
Ran into some issues hand loading the Hornady 88gr. I pushed them right to max mag length and I was shearing off the plastic tips. I’m thinking that was my issue loading, as I didn’t have that issue with factor ammo.
Other than that it’s been great
What are you running that you’re getting 3000+ FPS? Not trying to be condescending I’m curious…also is it accurate? I found that pushing 80gr ELDM fast throws it out of the accuracy window. Are you running a really long barrel?
Power pro 2000 or cfe223 will get you above 3000 with 80s. I haven't found a loss in accuracy with berger 80.5s at that speed. The 85s definitely have a ceiling for me though. 2750-ish if I remember
What length barrel are you running. I’ve tried for the better part of 2 years to get the 80gr ELDM to shoot well and can’t get it shooting.
26 in barrel. I haven't shot the 80 eldms though. Just the berger 80.5s.
Oh ok makes sense. The 80.5 was easy to develop a load for but the 80gr ELDM has been a pain but the 75gr ELDM has been easier. From a 22” I’m at 2895 fps.
This makes complete sense, that it could be true. Curious if that’s how it actually went down. I think the SAAMI spec max pressure for Valk is 55k psi and 62k psi for .223 respectively. I’m not really sure of all the variables involved when they come up with that number. I shot 50 rounds of this load through my bolt and gas gun yesterday without any signs of pressure except some swipes on the case head from the gasser. These are no worse then what I get with factory 75grn federal stuff. I’m about out of usable brass as I’m on my 5th firing in federal. So I figured if I trashed my primer pockets, so be it. I was hoping to switch to starline but it’s out of stock everywhere. There are some decent guys in the Valkyrie ascending FB group, it also where I was told I was over pressure.
I had the same issue with the 88’s and even sometimes with factory 88’s until I switched to the modified PRI mags that CBB sells. I can load up to mag well length and they run great with no broken tips. I’m actually using the same load in my bolt gun and my gasser. It’s loaded well last AR mag length.
The 80eld-m seems to be very jump sensitive in my experience. If you haven’t tried a lot of seating depth testing, the window that worked well for me was .035”-.045” jump. Difficult to do in a gas gun due to mag length, but you can do it with the cut out mags that cavity back bullets sells. By contrast the 88 eldms aren’t jump sensitive in my experience and will shoot well from about 30 thou off the lands to well over 100 thou off. They aren’t nearly as finicky as the 80 eldms, but you don’t get the velocity.
A remage 700 with a criterion 24” 1-6.5 LT varmint.
Accurate enough lol, in all honesty, I got my 6.5prc custom and I haven’t messed with the Valkyrie much since. I have my old load on my phone right know but I’m pretty sure I’ve changed it…..grains and bto measurement. My 100 yard groups are idk, around .5” or so, been awhile since sighting in the Arken and I don’t think I took a picture. But here is my most recent longer range targets.
Basically, everything I point it at and I have my corrections correct, it hits it, regardless if it’s vermin or something to see if I can hit it. I’ll get the most recent load after work and post.
Heres a bit of my 85.5’s, groups ok for a 3 shot but…..now with this bullet, I never finished or really came up with a good load but. With this, this is where I’m thinking that I’m higher than I think on my 80’s load. Right now I’m in the process of building my new reloading room so I have crap everywhere……
I loaded my 80gr ELDs and 80.5gr Bergers to 2.2850” with 24.8gr of H4895. Could’ve gone a tad higher but the accuracy was great and no need to go (even) harder on the brass for zero return.
Edit: 20” barrel
Edit: 20” barrel
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Every great load I've had was in the 23-23.5gr range with h4895. I've got a 26" barrel that just loves to run slow. 2750 is super mild, easy on brass and the loads are all sub 1/4" and thats with both the 88gr eld and 80.5gr berger. I've seen some promise with h4350 and varget but I didnt explore it all that far.
Kinda want to see what the 95gr smk and maybe some solids would do. But in all reality I'll probably just keep my 88gr load. Depending on primer it's 23.1-23.4gr of h4895 at .060" off.
Kinda want to see what the 95gr smk and maybe some solids would do. But in all reality I'll probably just keep my 88gr load. Depending on primer it's 23.1-23.4gr of h4895 at .060" off.
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