Sidearms & Scatterguns 1911 situation. Your opinions?

[5RWill]

Went to my local gunsmith today and we got to talking 1911s. He pointed out something i guess i was too impatient to see. I had planned on a DW valor lowest i've found that 1911 for is 1531$. My smith suggested just getting a standard SA mil-spec and building on it. So now i'm thinking hell i could find a Mil-spec for 500$ and then get front & back strap checkering, replace the MIM parts, buff the roll mark out except the SA insignia, add night sights, skeletonized hammer, Ed brown beaver tail grip safety, etc. Also refinish the gun in birdsong's black T or something similar.

I didn't get a quote from my smith because i'm nowhere near getting a 1911. By the time all that is said and done i imagine it will have a similar price as the DW, would it just been better to buy a DW and be done with it?

 

[Asiparks]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I'm sure he makes more money on smithing than he does in markup on a DW.
How's his skills ? does he have samples of his work ?

I bought a used Valor off the classifieds here for $1000, sent it to a smith with a good rep and had him do about $800 to get exactly what I wanted....

 

[clmayfield]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

It doesn't sound like you are a big 1911 guy. I would get the DW and be done with it. If there are any issues, you can send it back to DW for a new one or a refund. Issues with a heavily customized Springer? That is between you and the smith and he won't be giving you a new one. He will be reworking the same piece until it is right.

If you had something very specific in mind, go custom. Otherwise, it is not worth the wait and expense.

 

[jmb1911]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

You can find a really nice 1911 for that coin, but, it might not be exactly what you want.

Take your time. That being said. Research what you want before you go and buy. Like the fella above, I'm not a fan of front cocking serrations and the DW above is almost what I'd buy with a few mods. I'm a personal fan of straight fine cocking serrations in the rear of the gun only. I don't know if you need to go custom or not, but It depends on what level of detail you want to be in control of.

Be very picky of the details (consider ALL features, rail or not, color, front strap machining, etc.) you want if you only want to have one 1911. I say this because if you find you don't like something that is cut into your gun (of course all modular and removable parts you can switch out at your whim), it isn't going anywhere and it'll bug the hell out of you until you either buy another 1911 or learn to live with it...the former being much more expensive the latter being much harder to do.

I can tell you right now the only semi-custom 1911 that fits all of my criteria for the perfect 1911 for me is the Ed Brown Special Forces. Because I didn't know what I wanted at the time, I bought a gun that is awesome, but not exactly what I wanted.

I love my Les Baer TRS, but I settled. I'd personally like to have a tac rail on it because I am less of a "gotta stay true to history" kinda guy and more of a "tactical advantage" guy. I'd also like to only have had rear cocking serrations, but thats what you get when you're stupid.

What I'm trying to say is don't do what I did and not find out what I really wanted before I plopped down my $1500 for the gun (they're about $2k new now).

Good luck.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

That is why i'm still sold on DW for a production gun, no front slide cocking serrations (though a bit wide for my taste), no MIM, Front & back strap checkering, bevelled magwell, non skeletonized trigger but skeletonized hammer, heinie straight eights (though i would prefer Trijicon).

I'm not a rail guy there is room for one but for my first i don't want a rail, also as you said i like fine rear slide serrations, no front slide serrations.

Local smith is Tim Thompson son of Bill Thompson who owns Bill's Custom automatics. I'm not sure how to state his credentials. Friend of mine in the army unit who competes runs a race gun built by him, he does good machining work from what i've had done from him, there are a couple of guys on here that know of him. He gets guns from all over but i've only seen him some here and there on the forums. I trust him though, he's been doing it for quite some time and though pricey sometimes, he's never really steered me the wrong way.

Here's a image of shane just cause.

http://www.billscustomautomatics.com/shooter.html
I've had my 5R pillar/glass bedded into a McM A5 by him.
http://www.billscustomautomatics.com/

This is just a side thought, i've had the valor picked out for some time now. But price depending if i could get what i want out of overhauling a SA mil spec and not having to pay that 1531$ price tag, while having a great quality 1911 it's still a win IMO. Also i could have it earlier, i guess that is a bit too impatient.

Carter, i wouldn't necessarily say i'm not a 1911 guy, as it is my favorite handgun. I'm new to handguns in general though. I own a glock 21 and a M&P 40. Had planned on the valor this summer but due to summer school and a medical school preparatory seminar for a week i don't have enough time to generate 1600$.

 

[Ianski]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I've personally worked on a number of different 1911's and owned a few. I still love my SA Loaded more than anything else.. I'd say start with the SA and pay to make it exactly what you want. Instead of paying for something really expensive that you will still end up paying more to make it what you want.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Carter, i wouldn't necessarily say i'm not a 1911 guy, as it is my favorite handgun. I'm new to handguns in general though. I own a glock 21 and a M&P 40. Had planned on the valor this summer but due to summer school and a medical school preparatory seminar for a week i don't have enough time to generate 1600$.</div></div>

You sound like you've been shooting for less than two years, maybe even only six months. Take a while to smell the roses and figure out what really appeals to you before you contract for something from scratch or for a build-up from a retail 1911. In fact, silly question, but have you ever shot a well-done Browning Hi-Power? Sometimes we're buying into an illusion or an enhanced image of something that doesn't quite match up to expectations when we get to the other side of the investment. Just something to think about.

 

[thebolt]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I would purchase a high quality name brand pistol for that kind of money. I am partial to Les Baer myself and have great experiences with all I own. You will sell a used Les Baer pistol with ease and get a high percentage of you money back if the need ever comes up. You will never get a return on your money having a pistol built by an average and/or unknown gunsmith. The pistol might be great but it will not be a Les Baer that is known and respected.

Good luck on your decision!

 

[RoosterShooter]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

You'll get personal opinions no matter where you go. So, it's really up to you in the end.

For instance, I love Kimber and think they're the best production gun since John Browning produced the first 1911 in 1910. However, you will find guys that hate Kimbers and they have their reasons. I don't like Les Baer because they charge you extra for a plastic case. I know ... it's silly, but if I pay that much for a pistol then they'd better not nickel and dime me for a plastic case.

You will find opinions a dime a dozen. As an example ... look at the responses in this thread. You have several people, and they all have their own opinions and do not agree on one specific brand.

My opinion ... get a Kimber Gold Match II and do what you want with it out of the box. In my opinion, they are match ready out of the box, and need very little time to get used to.

On the other hand, you could get ahold of a Springfield MILpec and build off of it. Either way ... you're going to be out <span style="text-decoration: underline">at least</span> $1200 in the end. That's not including bench or machine time if you decide to build your own.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You sound like you've been shooting for less than two years, maybe even only six months. Take a while to smell the roses and figure out what really appeals to you before you contract for something from scratch or for a build-up from a retail 1911. In fact, silly question, but have you ever shot a well-done Browning Hi-Power? Sometimes we're buying into an illusion or an enhanced image of something that doesn't quite match up to expectations when we get to the other side of the investment. Just something to think about.</div></div>

I've been shooting handguns for about six months, shooting rifles for quite some time. I've never shot a high power frankly the aesthetics bother me though i'd have to see for myself i guess.

 

[CSS]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I'm in the same boat as Rooster Shooter, I love my Kimbers. I've owned half a dozen or more, Still have two. A CDP Pro and a custom classic. Both first gen guns. Never had a problem even from the gen II guns.
I've owned 2 springers, just did not like either one of them. I've also owned a Brown Kobra Carry, a Wilson Pro and a Baer LS 10mm, al of which went away for some reason or another. Wish I still had a few of the later.
With the little amount of hands on experience you have, I would say buy a RI or SA base gun, shoot it for awhile, find out exactly what you want after you spend some time with it. Sell it when you know what you want. Yea, you'll loose maybe a $100, but you will not be buying what you think you want and loosing a lot more later on.

 

[simmy952]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Look at a Sig 1911. I purchased a compact Sig 1911 when I was looking for a 1911 to carry. Was very impressed with what you get for the money. So impressed that I also got a TacOps carry. Sig makes a 1911 with a lot of features that you don't get with other manufacturers. In that time I also have had a couple of Springfields, a Les Baer, and have tried a few others. I still have my Sigs but have sold off the others with the exception of the Les Baer. The Les Baer was purchased in my younger days when I thought that the more you payed for a gun the better it was. Don't get me wrong, the LB is a very nice weapon but I would put my Sig up against it any day of the week and still have some coin in my pocket for other stuff or another Sig.

 

[Pappasniper]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

You could probably get a SA Pro or Nighthawk for what he might charge you. Get a great base gun and be done. You do that custom thing after you have 3 or 4 , not #1.

 

[5RWill]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PappaSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could probably get a SA Pro or Nighthawk for what he might charge you. Get a great base gun and be done. You do that custom thing after you have 3 or 4 , not #1. </div></div>

Wanted the professional since i laid eyes on it. Think he'd charge that much? Wouldn't be a all at once thing, I would get the SA mil spec shoot the hell out of it then in 6 months (when i get a break and have a chance to work again) start to put some cash into it. I do want to get it finished regardless in Black-T.

I would like to replace the MIM parts with quality parts, add Brown beavertail, Hammer, safety, trigger, MSH, etc. Add front strap checkering and have him add an extended magwell or bevel the current. Buff out the springfield roll mark but leave the insignia. Then finish it with Black-t. Think that would be around 3000+? I have a hard time seeing that but honestly don't know. If it is even near that i wouldn't consider it.

These are just thoughts nothing is set in stone yet.

 

[Asiparks]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

what is it about Black T that makes you want that finish specifically ?

 

[deadly0311]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Black T just looks mean on a pistol

 

[Asiparks]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I have a Pro too.

If by "mean" you mean "black" there are a few finishes that are less expensive and better performing...

 

[5RWill]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black T just looks mean on a pistol

</div></div>

This ^ it just looks absolutely beautiful. Some might frown upon me saying that but weapon aesthetics do matter to a certain degree for me.

 

[Jethro21]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Dan Wesson makes a very good gun, fit and finish are wonderful. They have really gone up in price over the last several years...I am still kicking myself for passing on a Razorback in 10mm 6 years ago when it was still around $800.

I have 2 thoughts on this- 1- get the Valor. It is a great gun and you will most likely be happy OR 2- buy a lower end good quality 1911, such as a Mil spec or RIA, shoot it awhile and decide what you really want on it. Then either sell that gun or build on it.

I would lean towards option 2 only because you are a relatively new handgun shooter, so take some time to figure out what you like/need. You may not need to sink quite as much money into the finished product as you think.

Just my thoughts, ymmv

Jethro

 

[DirtyRod]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to replace the MIM parts with quality parts, add Brown beavertail, Hammer, safety, trigger, MSH, etc. Add front strap checkering and have him add an extended magwell or bevel the current. Buff out the springfield roll mark but leave the insignia. Then finish it with Black-t. Think that would be around 3000+? I have a hard time seeing that but honestly don't know. If it is even near that i wouldn't consider it.</div></div>

SA Standard (Pre-Milspec) with most of the stuff you mentioned plus a match barrel and bushing. I didn't replace the internals because they just worked. The pic was just after I changed the barrel at 42k rounds. I estimate I have $2k into it. Not the $3k you mentioned but more than the Valor. I love the gun but if I was doing it again I would probably just buy a semi-custom (LB, EB, etc) and be done with it.

 

[lionsden]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I have a LB TRS and think its a great all around pistol. Tight and accurate as hell. If it were my choice I would look into the LB but the DW is a hell of a gun for the money and wouldnt feel outgunned (no pun) at all.

If you want to build your own then the Springfield is a great start or a Colt 70 series, however I think in the long run you will spend more and only come out even on features, reliability, and accuracy of the Valor. You will know the ins and outs of the weapon a lot more though.

All in all you have to weigh the 2 sides and decide for yourself but for me a semi custom or Valor would be the choice. Also the Valor for all intents and purposes is just about a semi custom.

Hopefully thats clear as mud! Good luck.

Steve

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

i have three customs, the one cool thing is nobody has a gun exactly like any of em. not why i did it but still cool to think about. there is something about a hand built pistol built for you, that a semi-custom and standard pistol just can't touch.

yes i am not saying a TRP or a DW have any faults they are great pistols but i LOVE my 1911's

 

[poison123]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have three customs, the one cool thing is nobody has a gun exactly like any of em. not why i did it but still cool to think about. there is something about a hand built pistol built for you, that a semi-custom and standard pistol just can't touch.

yes i am not saying a TRP or a DW have any faults they are great pistols but i LOVE my 1911's
</div></div>

Pretty sure I had a gun exactly like one of them

 

[Veer_G]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> yes i am not saying a TRP or a DW have any faults they are great pistols but i LOVE my 1911's
</div></div>

Pretty sure I had a gun exactly like one of them </div></div>

It'd still be in ATL if the Force were with you ...

 

[rplamann]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

At asiparks, cool 1911, was that done by Jeremy Reid? Looking forward to having him do a build for me.

 

[vinogeek]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

DW Valors are excellent guns. The small parts are of excellent quality. They upped their game in 2010. I would try to find a 2010+ model. They also changed the black version from a cerakote like finish to something called duty treat. Not a coating at all. Very durable.

I would also consider a Les Baer. They are slightly more expensive than the DW but have a whole different feel to them. Very solid and substantial. Tight as hell when new but after several 100 rounds, they are like glass. Hard fit...

Enjoy your search. 1911 ownership is really an addiction!

 

[Asiparks]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ryan a p</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At asiparks, cool 1911, was that done by Jeremy Reid? Looking forward to having him do a build for me. </div></div>

yes, he did and I couldn't be more pleased with his work...there's a thread on another forum of a build he did on a Wilson frame and slide kit that's absolutely beautiful....

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=370221

A Baer would be a great choice too, there's lots of gently used ones pop up in the $1250 to $1500 range.
I like mine, but I like my valor slightly more....

with my other Valor

As for finishes, Black T is good and it was top dog when the FBI spec'd the Pro, but it doesn't wear as well, nor offer as much protection as melonite, IonBond or Ceracoat. Some of those options are cheaper too...

Ceracoat :

 

[pickpick]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Blackops 2, I would go with SA 1911's first, that way you can buy 2 or 3 different models for the price of a sure enough custom. Doing this will also help you decide the things you like and don't like about the 1911. As for Tim and Bill they are topnotch guys. They are good people. It would be hard to find a smith better at building a 1911.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pickpick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Blackops 2, I would go with SA 1911's first, that way you can buy 2 or 3 different models for the price of a sure enough custom. Doing this will also help you decide the things you like and don't like about the 1911. As for Tim and Bill they are topnotch guys. They are good people. It would be hard to find a smith better at building a 1911. </div></div>

I'll take it a step further: you may discover that the SA more than fulfills your needs with regards to function and accuracy. I wouldn't take anything away from a custom 'smith, but unless your needs (wants, more like) extend to a personally unique and emblematic statement, SA, and perhaps DW, might be more than sufficient.

 

[ShakyDave]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Or shell out about $500 for a Rock Island. One of the best-kept secrets in the 1911 community.

 

[Pappasniper]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Now that you gone full circle from Pro to $500 base gun. I always suggest getting a good base gun. That way you can shoot it, be proud of it, admire the aesthetics like you said, and if you ever feel the need, upgrade it. Then your actually close to a Pro.

I suggest an MC Operator OR TRP. The fine line between those guns and $2,500 customs is pretty narrow. I own both of those guns, and 4 customs. IMHO, for all practical use and even aesthetics, those 1911's are a steal.

Another way to look at it, what you get for that extra thousand is not as near as much as you get from your first $1,000. BANG FOR BUCK

 

[kimberseries1]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thebolt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would purchase a high quality name brand pistol for that kind of money. I am partial to Les Baer myself and have great experiences with all I own. You will sell a used Les Baer pistol with ease and get a high percentage of you money back if the need ever comes up. You will never get a return on your money having a pistol built by an average and/or unknown gunsmith. The pistol might be great but it will not be a Les Baer that is known and respected.

Good luck on your decision! </div></div>

I'm a Kimber fanboy, but not at $1500-$1600. I like mine used between $600-$800.

I suggest a used Les Baer. I saw one here for sale for $1500 or $1400 with only 5,000 rds. For a Baer, that's just getting broken in, and you can see it has held its value. You may find other Baers in a little better condition with a lower round count for about the same price, I don't remember which model his was. Les makes all his own parts right here in America, and makes about the most accurate 1911, especially for the price.

At $1500, I'd definately take a used Baer over a DW, and I like DW as well......

 

[Chard]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Purchased this used for $1400. Shot very little. Not even close to being broken in.

 

[1911Combat45]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

If you can find a solid base gun for 500 or less, you will come out miles ahead. Assuming the work performed is worth it.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black T just looks mean on a pistol

</div></div>

those pro's just look bad ass

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in the same boat as Rooster Shooter, I love my Kimbers. I've owned half a dozen or more, Still have two. A CDP Pro and a custom classic. Both first gen guns. Never had a problem even from the gen II guns.
I've owned 2 springers, just did not like either one of them. I've also owned a Brown Kobra Carry, a Wilson Pro and a Baer LS 10mm, al of which went away for some reason or another. Wish I still had a few of the later.
With the little amount of hands on experience you have, I would say buy a RI or SA base gun, shoot it for awhile, find out exactly what you want after you spend some time with it. Sell it when you know what you want. Yea, you'll loose maybe a $100, but you will not be buying what you think you want and loosing a lot more later on. </div></div>

LISTEN.... this is the best advice I've heard on this thead.

Unless you have boatloads of disposable income, do this ^^^^^^^

 

[5RWill]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Just to update this thread I decided to shoot my M&P in USPSA a year or two before i step up to a different, more expensive platform Though i will still want a 1911, might pick up a mil spec some time down the road. For right now though my funds are going into finishing my rifle, and getting my reloading stuff set up so i can stop wasting money on factory handgun ammo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

those pro's just look bad ass
</div></div>

Agreed i think the Pro's are one of the most beautiful looking 1911s. Chris actually has a ProE package he does that virtually looks the same, though it would be missing some of the roll marks.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

oh i know, chris does great work. he will do a full size for me soon as well as the commander he has now. there is a lot of good places to send your 1911

 

[Tactical22]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

You shouldn't drop the money on a custom build until you know EXACTLY what you want and EXACTLY why you want it that way. There are quite a few good production guns in your price range. Buy one shoot it, shoot it some more, take some classes with it, shoot it some more, and then start to ask yourself what you would change and why. Once you have that list very well-developed you are ready to find a good smith and get on the waiting list. Otherwise, you are just wasting money. Now, it's your money, so...

 

[Vaughn]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

Have a couple of DW's and am more than pleased with them. I did get them several years ago though before they went price crazy...still happier with them than I am with an attempt with a custom job, but that probably had more to do with the smith! Anyway, IMHO, hard to go wrong with a DW!

 

[AznDragon533]

Re: 1911 situation. Your opinions?

I would still rather get a Les Baer or DW Valor. more value...and much easier to resell it in the future