So @Birddog6424 's insistence on the .22s has me pondering a .22BRA. Any reason not to run than versus a .22BR. I have a ton of twice fired BRA brass laying around and it'd be an easy neck/shoulder bushing swap in my SAC 6BRA modular die.
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
I’ve been shooting a 22BRA this year. You’ll be able to run a wider range of powders. I’m currently running 32.0 of H4350 with 90 A tips at about 3010fps. We have a .130 freebore and to tell the truth I wouldn’t be afraid to run .150 or more. It’ll make good use of your brass
I'm loaded deep with Varget and H4895
I’ve also been using Imr 4166. That varget will work
Haha, I insist damnit!!
I think the 22BRA would be brilliant. I tried to build one a couple of years ago. Manson was going to cut me a reamer, but I couldn't find a 22BRA specific die. I didn't want to sink custom die money into it, so I kept the BR. But if dies are available and you have the brass, hell yeh. I insist.
A simple swap out of the bushing in my SAC die is all it will take. I'd just have to find a smith that has access to a reamer set up for 90gr A tipsHaha, I insist damnit!!
I think the 22BRA would be brilliant. I tried to build one a couple of years ago. Manson was going to cut me a reamer, but I couldn't find a 22BRA specific die. I didn't want to sink custom die money into it, so I kept the BR. But if dies are available and you have the brass, hell yeh. I insist.
In hindsight I should have went with a bushing die. I had it in my head at the time that I needed it to be for the 22. No idea why.
Those 90gr Atips are killer in these BR variants. Most guys are running those around a .305 confirmed G7. Crunching the numbers on that at 3050 to 3080fps makes for a pretty high performance round.
I have quite a few rounds down the pipe now with the 22 Dasher. It's really nothing earth shaking but it mirrors the 22BR in its consistency.
In my 22BR I run a .255 neck and .130" freebore. I've done the same thing with the Dasher. I've ran 7" twists in my BR, but went a 7.5" twist with the Dasher in case I decided I really wanted to scream them out of there. These are Hawk Hill barrels with a .219 bore.
In load development with the Dasher running 85.5gr Berger LRHTs I loaded up to 32.8grs of Varget, which put me at 3300fps, and I was just starting to see a little added stiffness to the bolt lift. I suspect it'll hit close to 3400fps at pressure signs. At 31grs of Varget at .040 jump I get 3130fps with the Berger, and 3080fps with the 88gr ELDM. Which I found interesting, because my 22BR with 29grs of Varget gets 3040fps with the Berger, and 2990fps with the Hornady. A 50fps separation with both.
I'm thinking the Dasher is a nice round. I don't know if I would necessarily choose it over my BR. It seems to me that if a guy really wanted a fast moving round for varmints, the Dasher or GT would fit that bill nicely. I think the 22 Creedmoor becomes somewhat obsolete compared to these cartridges running less powder with lower recoil at similar speeds. But for PRS I think that BR is a solid performer.
I'm going to have some fun with this Dasher. Going to zip it out there at 3130fps with the Berger Hybrid and see how well it performs for the life of the barrel. 31grs of Varget is a pretty light load. It may just surprise me on how well it holds together.
In my 22BR I run a .255 neck and .130" freebore. I've done the same thing with the Dasher. I've ran 7" twists in my BR, but went a 7.5" twist with the Dasher in case I decided I really wanted to scream them out of there. These are Hawk Hill barrels with a .219 bore.
In load development with the Dasher running 85.5gr Berger LRHTs I loaded up to 32.8grs of Varget, which put me at 3300fps, and I was just starting to see a little added stiffness to the bolt lift. I suspect it'll hit close to 3400fps at pressure signs. At 31grs of Varget at .040 jump I get 3130fps with the Berger, and 3080fps with the 88gr ELDM. Which I found interesting, because my 22BR with 29grs of Varget gets 3040fps with the Berger, and 2990fps with the Hornady. A 50fps separation with both.
I'm thinking the Dasher is a nice round. I don't know if I would necessarily choose it over my BR. It seems to me that if a guy really wanted a fast moving round for varmints, the Dasher or GT would fit that bill nicely. I think the 22 Creedmoor becomes somewhat obsolete compared to these cartridges running less powder with lower recoil at similar speeds. But for PRS I think that BR is a solid performer.
I'm going to have some fun with this Dasher. Going to zip it out there at 3130fps with the Berger Hybrid and see how well it performs for the life of the barrel. 31grs of Varget is a pretty light load. It may just surprise me on how well it holds together.
Hmm.. I have a 224 1:7.5 Bartlein 5R laying in the safe Im trying to decide what to chamber it in.... Was thinking 22 Dasher, 22x47L since Im all setup with dies and tons of brass for 6.5x47L or 22GT... Still havent decided. Really love my 22BR with these 90smk right now....I gotta get a final number now that I have over 200rd down the barrel but looks like 3030 Im running these 90smk with 4166...
What are you using for a G7 on that 90gr SMK? AB lists that at a .259 for the tipped version. That seems low..
So my shooting partner is on his second season with the 22GT. For PRS I honestly believe there is no reason to go to the GT. Within the confines of the velocity limit, the 22 Dasher can do anything the GT can with less powder. That GT would make a hell of a coyote gun though.
Oddly enough, just like with the BR, nodes seem similar. He ran his at 3130fps last year with 88s and Atips.
The Dasher and BR are similar enough that it doesn't really make sense to own both.
I'll probably tinker a little more with a heavier bullet again this summer. I think that's where the Dasher will seperate itself from the BR, is the ability to run a 90gr Berger or SMK or 95gr SMK at 3100fps or better. If a guy was looking for that kind of performance. A 95gr SMK at 3130fps is like shooting a fast moving 6 Creedmoor with 25% less recoil and better barrel life..
I have a 7 twist Bartlein 5r blank that I was going to use for my next 223 barrel. This has me wanting to try a 22 Dasher.
Im using AB Custom Curve in my Kestrel for the 90smk and its been spot on. Before Kestrel had the Custom Curve for the 90smk I was using 0.563 G1 for a while with the new pointed in my 220TB and that was dead on. First shots at 1000yd I took dope was dead center impact 5 shots... Didnt use a G7 back then because G1 0.563 was all I could find on Sierra website...
I bought 200pc of SS tumbled 1xLapua 6BR for cheap and just converted them over to 22BR. I annealed them, ran them through the SAC sizer with 260 bushing then 247 bushing then trimmed/chamfer/debur on the Henderson... Loaded them up with 29.3gr 4166 and 88ELD 0.02 off to fireform today. Same load as my final 4166/90smk load. See how they shoot today.
After reading your last post, I said screw another cartridge and decided Im just gonna do another 22BR barrel with this Bartlein blank.... Just ordered a 22BR reamer from manson with 0.255 neck and 0.130 freebore. Fuck it, Im all in.
Pretty hard to go wrong with the 22BR. Its just a solid performer. And easy peasy to load and shoot.
I should get back to playing with the Custom Curve. I started using everything G7 a couple years ago when I had a barrel that just wouldn't play nice with the Curve. But I've found since then that curve really gains effectiveness when you start stretching a round down range.
Last year we stopped at a buddies range in northern Utah to grab zero and check dope before driving down a couple more hours to the Hornady PRC. I was smacking everything at <1000 yards with my 6GT, doing ok at 1200 and 1300, dropping way low at 1700 yards (the PRC has a 1600+ yard target every year). I was like .8 low. My buddy running the CC was still dead nuts at that distance. I clicked mine over to CC and it was within .1 of my actual hold.
I think I need to revisit that..
Yea I use AB CC for everything it's available for.....its been spot on as far as I have shot.
Just got back from fireforming another 100pc of brass with 88eld and 29.3gr 4166... 3016 and damn these 88 fireformung loads were hammering... wind as fuck and 35F....1.5mil wind hold and was hammering at 700. Idk why the hell I mess with any other bullet as well as these 88 have shot with zero load development to date with 88 eld....
The 88s are great value for the money.
Our first year running 22BRs, my buddy and I shot Defy the Distance in Montana running those 88s. It was windy as hell all weekend.
My buddy was sitting in first place on the Friday side match on a 1500 and 1200 yard plate. Some dude cracked out a 300 PRC to beat him. And I had the highest score of day on Sunday in a 12 to 15mph wind.
We got a lot of raised eyebrows when folks realized what we were shooting. Them rounds perform..
Our first year running 22BRs, my buddy and I shot Defy the Distance in Montana running those 88s. It was windy as hell all weekend.
My buddy was sitting in first place on the Friday side match on a 1500 and 1200 yard plate. Some dude cracked out a 300 PRC to beat him. And I had the highest score of day on Sunday in a 12 to 15mph wind.
We got a lot of raised eyebrows when folks realized what we were shooting. Them rounds perform..
Anyone playing with 22bra? Be a simple neck down with alpha brass, simple forming. Curios if it'd be worth it? The lack of case trimming would be a nice trait.
Post 573 up above is what I’m running. I fireformed my brass from necked down 6br. A buddy of mine is using bra necked down. I did neck down one piece of alpha just experiment. It wasn’t an issue. Should be simple. Neck one down, shove a bullet in it and measure the neck do you know if you’ll need to turn or not
Was there more velocity available and you chose that node or was that close to pressure? I'm running 88gr ELDs at 3086fps with 30.2gr of Varget in a 28" 22br.
... Ordered a reamer today.
Something else to mess with.
I’m sure there’s more to be had but I’m not trying to hot rod it. I’m wanting to keep my brass in good shape. It’s been cool out so I’m not sure how much more pressure it’ll get when it warms up. I’m about 500 rounds into it. I did shoot some 88’s and 90 smk with 4166 at 3050fps no issues also in cool weather
What's your 4166 88 ELD/90SMK load?? I'm running 29.3gr 4166 with 90smk 2996 and 88 ELD 3016... no pressure, and I didn't go any higher than 29.6
30.0 so not a lot gained if anything with that particular powder, but I think the gain is with some of the slower powders. Possibly maintain 22br barrel life with a little extra velocity. Too early to tell.
Which slower powders are you playing with?
So far H4350 is it. I'm going to try some 6.5 Staball when I can get some, it should be as good as 4350 and be able to drop it from Lee powder measure pretty quickly. With today's powder situations if I needed to I'd probably try anything I had on hand within reason
Just finished putting 200 rounds through my barrel (speeding up and fire forming) so I ran a pressure test with Varget and 88gr ELDMs (shots 196-200).
Virgin Brass firing...
27.0 - 2,758
27.5 - 2,792
28.0 - 2,835
28.5 - 2,874
29.0 - 2,928
This is significantly slower than I would have thought after reading this thread.
Virgin Brass firing...
27.0 - 2,758
27.5 - 2,792
28.0 - 2,835
28.5 - 2,874
29.0 - 2,928
This is significantly slower than I would have thought after reading this thread.
I don't have any experience with .22BR, but some barrels are just awfully slow when compared to others.
My .300NM which has a benchmark barrel is awfully slow compared to other .300NM's. I push 230 Bergers slower than most .300 PRC's.
What barrel?? Length? .218 or .219 bore? Twist?
28.5gr Varget virgin brass during 1st firing with with 88 ELD I was at 2966....
29.1gr Varget with 90smk I'm at 2999
28" Mullerworks 4gr 1:7
PVA OWB, .219, 1:7tw, 26", 6groove
219 bore drops pressure a LOT vs a 218. Put more powder in that case and you'll get the speed you desire.
What brand brass?
Lapua
I wonder how high (grains) I should go or just run around 2,900.
I run the same barrel on my 22bra. It shoots great 90 smk at 3040 with 30.0 of 4166. I’d say your barrel is running on about the same curve as mine considering the difference in the two cartridges.
28” Brux 22BRA
30.0gr Varget with 85.5 LRHTs gives me around 3050fps. Same charge with the 88s was averaging about 25-30fps slower.
30.5gr with the 85s was around 3105fps. No pressure but didn’t bother to go up any further.
Again not a 1:1 comparison, but close enough to say the 29-30gr charge weight range is a pretty safe bet.
30.0gr Varget with 85.5 LRHTs gives me around 3050fps. Same charge with the 88s was averaging about 25-30fps slower.
30.5gr with the 85s was around 3105fps. No pressure but didn’t bother to go up any further.
Again not a 1:1 comparison, but close enough to say the 29-30gr charge weight range is a pretty safe bet.
Anyone tested XBR 8208 in the 22 BR or GT?
My 223 Ackley is pushing the 88 ELD-M at 2800 FPS with 24.5 grs of 8208. Great practice load.
With 6mm bergers being so expensive and hard to find I’m considering building a 22BR or GT for local matches.
My 223 Ackley is pushing the 88 ELD-M at 2800 FPS with 24.5 grs of 8208. Great practice load.
With 6mm bergers being so expensive and hard to find I’m considering building a 22BR or GT for local matches.
What is everyone bumping? 1.0660" here; fireformed is 1.0680" (curious on chamber differences)
Those number are not exact...they are reference point numbers only so they won't be comparable from person to person....
While I don't have a BR and my case is less over-all capacity, seating the bullet out further gives me close to same as loaded capacity...... as I shoot same charge weights as guys on here with pretty much same velocities.
My new barrel I chambered in 22 GI is also a .219 bore like the previous barrel. And shoots in the high 1's and 2's with my old barrels 29 gr varget load but at 50- 60 fps less even though new barrel 3" longer.
I bumped charge up 6 tenths to get back on the 2990 node and is much more consistent
And shoots smaller.
As long as you don't see pressure I would pour the powder to it to get the 2990 node....
Got out today to play with some 80's over H4895. IDK why I didnt test H4895 first, its my go to 6BR powder with super low SD's, higher velocity per charge weight than Varget and is super accurate.
Loaded up 28.0-30.5gr in 0.5gr increments with both Berger 80 VLD and newer pointed 80 SMK. The 80SMK shot awesome, just like they did in my 220TB with Varget. No pressure at 30.5gr primers looks great, bolt feels great so not sure how much higher I can go but over 3230 @ 30.5gr.... SD's were all 5 or less across all the charge weights. Really like this H4895 / 80 SMK combo...
The VLD didnt shoot so great but not terrible. Because I have 0.100" freebore, the 80 SMK were jumping 0.060" and that still only had half the neck engaging the bullet bearing surface. 80 VLD also had half the neck engaging the bullet bearing surface but that was 0.008" off the lands...
80 SMK - H4895 OCW @ 200yd
80 VLD - H4895 OCW @ 200yd
Loaded up 28.0-30.5gr in 0.5gr increments with both Berger 80 VLD and newer pointed 80 SMK. The 80SMK shot awesome, just like they did in my 220TB with Varget. No pressure at 30.5gr primers looks great, bolt feels great so not sure how much higher I can go but over 3230 @ 30.5gr.... SD's were all 5 or less across all the charge weights. Really like this H4895 / 80 SMK combo...
The VLD didnt shoot so great but not terrible. Because I have 0.100" freebore, the 80 SMK were jumping 0.060" and that still only had half the neck engaging the bullet bearing surface. 80 VLD also had half the neck engaging the bullet bearing surface but that was 0.008" off the lands...
80 SMK - H4895 OCW @ 200yd
80 VLD - H4895 OCW @ 200yd
Okay, here is more data on my PVA OBW 22BR...
Lapua 6BR brass; 88gr ELDM
In the last update, I spoke about 29.0gr of Varget producinging 2,928fps (one shot in a pressure test; 29.0 being the highest). With 200 rounds on the barrel, I cleaned it as best as I could with no borescope.
First, 5 shots were 29.0gr Varget jumping 0.040" - avg. 2,885fps w/ SD of 24 and ES of 63
(could this be due to the barrel being clean? not really concerned)
The next 5 shots were a pressure test from 29.2-30.0:
29.2- 2,918
29.4- 2,932
29.6- 2,950
29.8- 2,966
30.0- 2,990
Then I followed up with 5x shots with 29.2, 29.4, and 29.6 as I thought these would have put me around 2,950-3,000. I did not Magnetospeed these; that will be next. All 5x groupings were between .3-.5 moa. I will likely do a greater test here as I started to have bolt face smear at 30.0.
Lapua 6BR brass; 88gr ELDM
In the last update, I spoke about 29.0gr of Varget producinging 2,928fps (one shot in a pressure test; 29.0 being the highest). With 200 rounds on the barrel, I cleaned it as best as I could with no borescope.
First, 5 shots were 29.0gr Varget jumping 0.040" - avg. 2,885fps w/ SD of 24 and ES of 63
(could this be due to the barrel being clean? not really concerned)The next 5 shots were a pressure test from 29.2-30.0:
29.2- 2,918
29.4- 2,932
29.6- 2,950
29.8- 2,966
30.0- 2,990
Then I followed up with 5x shots with 29.2, 29.4, and 29.6 as I thought these would have put me around 2,950-3,000. I did not Magnetospeed these; that will be next. All 5x groupings were between .3-.5 moa. I will likely do a greater test here as I started to have bolt face smear at 30.0.
My chrono data over many years on clean barrels tells me the complete opposite..... 80fps swing because of a clean bore? High SD's?? Not in my experience.
The 7 twist on my rifle now with 29 gr Varget /88ELDM will be 2880-90's on first clean cold bore shot by 3 or 4th will be high 2930's low 2940's until I clean again....
Each barrel is different but the 1st shot on a completely clean barrel almost always is lower velocity maybe not 80 which is upper end I have seen....
Each barrel is different but the 1st shot on a completely clean barrel almost always is lower velocity maybe not 80 which is upper end I have seen....
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