223 Ackley Improved

NorCal Vu

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What kind of barrel life should I expect?

Bullets I should be looking at for long range shooting?

Will this caliber get me out to 600yards?

I am thinking of building one vs a regular 223. Just need more info.

NOBODY..if you are out there..HELP! I know you are a 223 AI fan.
 

FCS

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

About the same as a 223 for barrel life, powder charges are not changing that much.

LR shooting single shot or OTM?

Basic list would be:

80 Berger VLD
80 A-max
75 A-max
80 SMK

75 A-max you can make work easy enough from a Seekins but the others may go longer than 2.500" depending on how you set up the lead / free bore.

Bullets listed above will take you to 1K easy.
 

Criver600

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Vu
I have two 223AI one is a serious 600 yard prone rifle the other is my "hang on the front porch" varmint rifle. 1/8 5R barrels 27 inches, 80 grain SMK 3050 with all the N-150 you can get in Winchester brass Federal 205GM. Very very accurate and very very fun. It really freaks out service rifle shooters to find out I'm killing them with a 223....
 
S

sno-man

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

barrel life is top notch.... as long as you go with a good barrel of course

75 gr A-Max i think would have to talk to superseal

this is 3 shot at 800 i shot with his AI... and it makes 1k its bitch as long as you get the wind right

DSCI0430.jpg


and this is 700 yards (5 shot)
DSCI0432.jpg
 

7mmRM

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Bullet-

75AMAX all the way. IMO, it is a bullet worth building a rifle around.

600yrds-
NO PROBLEM.

BBL life-
About the same as a 223

223 vs 223AI
I have a load of 223s and one 223AI, as the majority of my 223s die, they will come back to life as 223AIs.
 

NorCal Vu

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Sorry for my ignorance but how long does a 223 live?

Thinking of building one because of the Stiller Group buy.

FSC,

I would like to feed from a magazine system.

Thanks guys for the help.

What twist should I be looking at?

8.5?
 

FCS

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

How fast (rounds per minute) are you running it? Fast n furious all the time is like anything else, wears the throat faster.

3500 to 5000 give or take a few depending on how hard/fast you want to shoot (velocity & rate of fire).

1:8 and run 80s but that is me. I really like the 75 A-max and the 75 gr VLDs but most of that has been from a 9 twist Win 70 factory barrel. When, or maybe if, that barrel dies then it will be an 8 twist set up around the 80 A-max.

Seekins bottom metal would be the way to fly unless you want to mod some AICS mags for 223 use. 7mmRM, IIRC, had some pictures of how he modded some mags for 223/223AI use.

 

montyb

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

dunno about life. i haven't worn one out yet.

but about the .223 AI; you'll want a 1-8 or 1-7 twist and chambered with a reamer with something like .040 freebore so you can seat the heavy bullets out to 2.45" ish. this will let you seat 55 grain bullets to the lands, and still not take up too much room with the 75 A-max.

the only DBM system right now is Glen's unless you modify AI .308 magazines to work with .223. then you can use BO M5 bottom metal or an AICS.

i have two .223 AI rifles, one with 8" twist Brux and one with 7" twist Hart. both shoot the light weight bullets fine and both shoot the heavy bullets very well. i'd go 7" twist if i were doing another.
 

Glen Seekins

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Hi Vu, I would do an 8 twist barrel and you can shoot whatever you want out of it. 75gr A-max is what i plan on shooting out of mine.

You get 2.6" oal with my mag box. if you want to try one to see if you like it let me know. I haven't gotten one back yet after someone plays with it a bit
wink.gif
 

NorCal Vu

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

haha...Glen you read my mind. I already have your BM down on my build spec.

5 Rounds per mag correct?
 

montyb

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

accuracy is usually pretty good with the fire forming loads, too, so you can use them for your usual stuff.
 

SDWhirlwind

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Only 223 that I have owned and shot alot was a VSSF. Thought the lands were starting to look a bit shallow(no bore scope though) at 4700ish but it still shot well under moa. I couldn't stand it so I tore it down. Cut 1.25" off the barrel and rethreaded it and chambered it to 221 for giggles. Well the damn thing has had a bit over 1800rds of Fireball and still shooting super. Unbelievable but when I changed scopes this spring to get ready for doggin I shot a couple of .4ish 3 shot groups. I thought I babied it as far as heat and cleaning as a 223. However, since being a Fireball I have shot that SOB hooot, dirty and that rotten prick just keeps on dumpin dogs!!!!!

Ex put 6000rds down a 222 Varmint Special that I had bought used and it was still shooting easy sub moa. Sold it 12/4 on Gunbroker for $400, the kid shot it till this summer and traded it to a MN dealer who resold it on Gunbroker for $676. Guessing it must be getting close to 10,000.

Bob Bell who was Editor of Gun Digest for several years came out and shot p dogs a couple of yrs with me in the late 80's. He had an old Sako Riimaki(sp?) that he claimed had 20,000rds down it before he punched it to 223. The friend of his shot the shit out of it both yrs at almost 1000rds a yr and still killed dogs in the 3ish range with little trouble. He had no idea how many 223's he or his friends had shot.

I think if you took reasonable care with the 223 or AI version that with todays steel and quality barrels that 10,000rds would not be unreasonable. That is just my worthless 2 cents worth though!!!!
 

SuperSeal110

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

Sno-man, yep we were running 75g Amax that day. They didn't shoot too bad that day, eh?

FF loads are damn accurate. This is Brad Arnett running 50g Vmax out of my .223ai @ 400yds, 5 shot group. This was in virgin win .223 brass.

100_2706.jpg

 
S

sno-man

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

man SS your gun is the local whore.... its been around the block lol
 

brdeano

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

That rifle of SS110's is so heavy he begs people to shoot it so he doesn't have to carry it anywhere....LOL. I thought mine was heavy, until I picked his up. It made me feel like a little girl when I was whining about how heavy mine was. Mine goes 13.5#'s with the NF, less with the loopy on it, and his is 17.5# if I remember correctly. Mine will be lighter when I ditch the heavy USMC return stock for the ligher A5 I have ordered, and swap out the Badger Steel rings/bases for Aluminum from Glen.

I have no idea on barrel life in the 223AI, mine has ~3200-3300 through it. I've really abused that rifle way more than it should have been...I shoot long strings of fire, shoot it waaaaay hotter than most guys do, I dont' clean it very often, and I moly coat my bullets. It's still shooting 5 5shot groups that'll agg in the .5's with me shooting it off a bipod laying on the ground, I'm not the best group shooter either. When the barrel does go (current one is a Broughton #6 contour), it'll be replaced with another 1-8" 223AI....might try a Bartlein the next go around.

My favorite part about the rifle is not trimming brass. My oldest brass has 18 firings on it and has never been trimmed (after the initial FF'ing I trimmed them all to the same lenght), and the pockets are still tight (R-P hulls). Also, that brass has only been neck sized, I haven't had to run it through through the FL die yet. SS110 did have to bump his brass back with an FL die after about 4 firings in his rifle.

I'm getting 3050 w/75Amax's in a 22" barrel. I'd really like to try the JLK 80gr VLD with its .510BC, but the cost deters me. I'm not shooting the rifle in matches and the 75 A-max's work just fine for our casual shooting to 1K, and it comes apart pretty quickly on critters. 28MOA to 1K w/a 200yd zero isn't hard to like, when your only burning 26gr of powder a pop. I also will never build another one with a barrel longer than 22", my next one will be a lightweight hunting 223AI and will be 20, or 21"s at most.

My rifle is throated to get the 75 A-max TTL at 2.485", that also allows me to get TTL with even a 50 V-max. It was a 10 minute tweak to the issued Rem magbox to not have to single feed them. Mine feeds well enough that I have no qualms carrying it deer hunting, and I do use it for that, but I know some guys do have feeding issues in the Rem's.

Does anyone know off hand if Glen's mag's are center feed, or staggered feed?
 

Grand

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Re: 223 Ackley Improved

FYI, Steve Timm (Dogzapper on 24hour) shot his .223AI Schneider tube more than 20,000 rounds before replacing, and that included alot of 500+ round days on PD shoots. Impressive to say the least.
 

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    Glenn,Im glad to hear 75gr A-Max is good to go in your system.I was going to give you a call about that but now i know.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Vu, I would do an 8 twist barrel and you can shoot whatever you want out of it. 75gr A-max is what i plan on shooting out of mine.

    You get 2.6" oal with my mag box. if you want to try one to see if you like it let me know. I haven't gotten one back yet after someone plays with it a bit
    wink.gif
    </div></div>
     

    brdeano

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FYI, Steve Timm (Dogzapper on 24hour) shot his .223AI Schneider tube more than 20,000 rounds before replacing, and that included alot of 500+ round days on PD shoots. Impressive to say the least. </div></div>

    It is impressive, I know I hit him up for some info a few years back when I was building mine.....I asked him about the round count in his "Blue Meanie" and he said, "you wouldn't believe me if I told you", then he told me it was 20K+....That's alot dead critters.
     

    wksinatl

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad Arnett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That rifle of SS110's is so heavy he begs people to shoot it so he doesn't have to carry it anywhere....LOL. I thought mine was heavy, until I picked his up. It made me feel like a little girl when I was whining about how heavy mine was. Mine goes 13.5#'s with the NF, less with the loopy on it, and his is 17.5# if I remember correctly. Mine will be lighter when I ditch the heavy USMC return stock for the ligher A5 I have ordered, and swap out the Badger Steel rings/bases for Aluminum from Glen.

    I have no idea on barrel life in the 223AI, mine has ~3200-3300 through it. I've really abused that rifle way more than it should have been...I shoot long strings of fire, shoot it waaaaay hotter than most guys do, I dont' clean it very often, and I moly coat my bullets. It's still shooting 5 5shot groups that'll agg in the .5's with me shooting it off a bipod laying on the ground, I'm not the best group shooter either. When the barrel does go (current one is a Broughton #6 contour), it'll be replaced with another 1-8" 223AI....might try a Bartlein the next go around.

    My favorite part about the rifle is not trimming brass. My oldest brass has 18 firings on it and has never been trimmed (after the initial FF'ing I trimmed them all to the same lenght), and the pockets are still tight (R-P hulls). Also, that brass has only been neck sized, I haven't had to run it through through the FL die yet. SS110 did have to bump his brass back with an FL die after about 4 firings in his rifle.

    I'm getting 3050 w/75Amax's in a 22" barrel. I'd really like to try the JLK 80gr VLD with its .510BC, but the cost deters me. I'm not shooting the rifle in matches and the 75 A-max's work just fine for our casual shooting to 1K, and it comes apart pretty quickly on critters. 28MOA to 1K w/a 200yd zero isn't hard to like, when your only burning 26gr of powder a pop. I also will never build another one with a barrel longer than 22", my next one will be a lightweight hunting 223AI and will be 20, or 21"s at most.

    My rifle is throated to get the 75 A-max TTL at 2.485", that also allows me to get TTL with even a 50 V-max. It was a 10 minute tweak to the issued Rem magbox to not have to single feed them. Mine feeds well enough that I have no qualms carrying it deer hunting, and I do use it for that, but I know some guys do have feeding issues in the Rem's.

    Does anyone know off hand if Glen's mag's are center feed, or staggered feed? </div></div>

    Brad,
    Glen's mags are center fed. I talked to Glen the other day and he has sent me his metal to try. UPS says it will be here tomorrow. He told me to bolt it up the the b/a without the stock and see how it feeds. As you know mine has had feeding issues. Hopefully Glen's metal will be a good fix. 5rd mags only available now but he hopes to crank out some 10rd'ers next year.

    I shot 52gr Amax's/h335 to fireform only because I had so many of them. This rd is just stupid accurate even when fireforming. Mine has a 22" Krieger, 1-8", finished at .93". It was throated to shoot the 75 amax's. My loads and performance are pretty much the same as Brad's. He had a pretty big influence in my deciding to go with the 223ai. My load is Lapua brass/75amax/re15/7.5's.

    No brass trimming was also a big bonus for me.

    After shooting mine and seeing how much I enjoy it my shooting pard is dropping off his action tomorrow to get a 223ai barrel screwed on.

    good luck,
    Keith
     

    NorCal Vu

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    I can't wait.

    Could you guys start posting your load data. I want to start gathering components ASAP.

    Thanks.

    75gn AMAX
    F205M
    Any particular brand of brass? Winchester? Lapua? RP?

    Think I can mag feed 80gn SMKs? I am going to go with Glen's mag system.
     

    FCS

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    2.600" OAL for Seekins magazine....there is no reason you shouldn't be able to mag feed 80 SMK. Just spec reamer / chamber to your needs, worse case you spend $175 for your own reamer with desired lead/free bore.

    Lapua, Win, RP all are good.

    N-140, RL-15, N-540, or Varget.
     

    7mmRM

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    Lapua Brass(formed)
    75AMAX kissing the lands
    26.2 RL15
    Fed205M

    3110FPS via 26" PacNor.
     

    Criver600

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    2.5 OAL with a 80 SMK is fine. Getting your own reamer is a plus. Your going to re-barrel/have more than one, all your brass and dies will work.
     

    Far Frontier

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    Big 223AI reloading day today,with everyone gearing up for the pending Buck Tournament.

    I remain a fan of 26grs '335 in R/P hulls,with a moly 75A-Max,for punishing shit. 28grs with the moly 62TSX,for tags.

    Glen's mags rule.

     

    paraman1

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    Tag to this thread . My .223 AI is done and should be on its way home to me soon . If I am still here when it gets here I will come back and give you all a range report . This is one of those rifles that everytime I had the parts or cash to build something came up so I am pretty stoked . It looks like my 9 month wait for a stock is gonna come in right at the same time as well so hopefully the patience gods smile on me and reward me with a tack driving hammer .
     

    Far Frontier

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    We all shoot the same loads,in a myriad of specimens,all but two of which are Remmie based(S/S MK II and Sako A1,the exceptions.

    Assuming R/P hulls,moly and a kiss it's:

    31grs '335 for 40's
    30grs '335 for 50's
    29.5grs '335 for 53X
    28grs for 62X
    26grs for 75A-Max(I gun .3grs less for the long bearing surface Scirocco II of like weight).

    As a baseline for something throated to kiss the 75A-Max at 2.450-2.500" COAL.

     

    Far Frontier

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    My LTR punched 223AI,gives a good accounting of itself,though it's initial(and subsequent) throat length would preclude use in all DBM's excepting your's.

    No thing to alter the issued box and feed it in that manner,wearing Marty's M4 bottom.

    Easy to get spoiled on a DBM that works however and your mag confines shine brightly in the application.

     

    Far Frontier

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    What was/is funny,was Yo dispensing 223AI "info".

    Much enjoyed that.
     

    NorCal Vu

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vu - given your pedigree, I can't believe you asked this question. Is this some type of a joke? </div></div>

    LOL..I am just a rookie. Gotta ask the questions to learn right? FSC is helping me spec a reamer out. I have 0 knowledge on reamers and all that stuff.

    Vu
     

    brdeano

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    Jason Bainey (jb1000br) has a good reamer spec'd, his reamer is what was used in my rifle.
     

    Far Frontier

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    In retrospect,I've yet to see a 223AI build that didn't impress me in it's inherent abilities. Though of course,I don't know many turd polishers.

    Have a 700 VS 223 barreled action setting here,that will be a 223AI control vehicle,for the fucking naysayers who muse the "pitfalls" of punching an OEM tube to 223AI. Despite their having ever seen or shot such a thing.

    Just need a little weather break,which is currently a rather tall order.
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Come on Vu, you have been around KD ranges enough to know how well a standard 223 shoots out of a 20" barrel at 600 yards I would think. I thought you were the "dude" out west in that area that had everyone all excited about LR shooting? You never seen a Service Rifle shooter busting the crap out of the 10/X ring at 600 yards with an AR15?
     

    wksinatl

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    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brad Arnett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jason Bainey (jb1000br) has a good reamer spec'd, his reamer is what was used in my rifle. </div></div>

    I also used the same reamer specs as Jason.

    I just got Glen's metal today. This is how his looks with the OAL of 2.51" and STILL lots of room. I don't shoot them this long but it was where the die was set and I just wanted to show a reference. This magazine is built like a freakin' tank. Look how thick the feed lips are. I'll post more when I get it installed. Right now I am VERY impressed with his setup. Can't wait to get it inletted. Glen has been a big help.

    SeekinsDBMand75amax-1.jpg
     

    jb1000br

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey...I havent seen him here in ages?! I he still around on the Hide? </div></div>

    Yep, still around...just not as much as I used to be...too many forums, too little time
    smile.gif


    I just really started playing with my AI this past week. Haven't done anything with it in the past year.

    Doesn't seem to love the 75's in the lands...may have to try off...

    Several 3-shot test groups with 50V-maxes and benchmark at 300yds were encouraging though...3 of the 5 groups were right at about 1" at 300yds from a bipod/beanbag...surprised me!

    Hoping to nail down something with the 75's before snow flies...

    JB
     

    Far Frontier

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    Re: 223 Ackley Improved

    Kiss,increase pressure(charge weight) and rock on.

    Assuming neck tension,case length and headspace are in order.