- Thread starter Huckleberry75
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H4895 and n140 are great options. These are with 88s
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26" 1/7 barty.
Was between 2800-2900. The 24.1 h4895 was mid level pressure and 25.3 and over n140 was hot.
Lapua brass held up to the pressure, but I blew primers with LC quite often when I got over 25.6 of n140.
25.2 n140 with 90smks held 6-7 SD and I had minimal issues spotting impacts to 950 or so
XBR 8208 and varget are also excellent choices. XBR got me the most velocity with pretty good accuracy.
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I was not getting any bump with my redding fl type s in a coax either so I sent it back to redding with 5-1x fired cases. When I got it back there was a note in it stating that the die was very slightly out of spec and replaced but my fired cases were still smaller than the 223AI specs and that I should try to chamber them and see if they will chamber without resistance. If they do then I need to measure, reload, and fire them again and see if they continue to grow forming to the chamber. If they don't grow then I have an undersized chamber. I have not yet taken the time to do that yet.
What barrel length and twist?
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Tested more 223AI loads. Hornady 88 ELDM, CFE223, CCI450, LC Brass. 2.530” OAL. CFE223 - 25.4gr to 26.6gr.
26.3gr 5 shots. 2771fps es 19.3 sd 7.3 .5” group.
26.6gr 5 shots 2809fps es 37.2 Sd 13.3 .3” group
26.3gr 5 shots. 2771fps es 19.3 sd 7.3 .5” group.
26.6gr 5 shots 2809fps es 37.2 Sd 13.3 .3” group
Spreads aren’t great but hard to argue with the groups.
So interesting day at the range today with the .223 AI CDG build with a 22" Proof. I loaded a ladder test with Staball Match, Lapua brass, 80 Grain ELD, and CCI 450 and here are the results. All numbers were 5 shot groups.
Factory Berger 73 grain Avg 2837fps, ES 17.8, SD 7.0
26.0 Staball Match Avg 2863fps, ES 38.9, SD 15.4
26.2 Staball Match Avg 2894, ES 21.1, SD 8.1
26.4 Staball Match Avg 2903, ES 32.7, SD 13.0, .5" or less group (only load that grouped lol)
26.6 Staball Match Avg 2936, ES 12.4, SD 4.5
26.8 Staball Match Avg 2953, ES 17.8, SD 6.3
Then I ran 25 rounds of the 26.2 load for steel out to 900 yards. All targets were IPSC with chest flapper and they were stationed at 600,700, 800, and 900. The load was good enough for steel work and grouped well at range. Numbers ended up being AVG 2898, ES 42.2, SD 12.2.
All numbers were obtained from a Garmin mounted on the rifle. Surprisingly there were no pressure signs and I am starting to think you cannot put enough Staball Match into a .223 case to get pressure lol. I loaded the 26.0 load previously and it was only showing 2812 FPS so that's why I started where I did. Overall accuracy was not impressive, and I believe that I am loading in between nodes or something where I am over the middle node and not quite to the extreme fast node. Running 2950 out of a 22" barrel with an 80 ELD is cooking IMO. I planned on finding a load around 2850 but I overshot it. I will start at 25.0 next time and see what happens.
I am still having an issue resizing my brass as I cannot bump the shoulders but the fired brass chambers with light resistance. The Redding die will go back to them this week with fired brass to see what they say.
Factory Berger 73 grain Avg 2837fps, ES 17.8, SD 7.0
26.0 Staball Match Avg 2863fps, ES 38.9, SD 15.4
26.2 Staball Match Avg 2894, ES 21.1, SD 8.1
26.4 Staball Match Avg 2903, ES 32.7, SD 13.0, .5" or less group (only load that grouped lol)
26.6 Staball Match Avg 2936, ES 12.4, SD 4.5
26.8 Staball Match Avg 2953, ES 17.8, SD 6.3
Then I ran 25 rounds of the 26.2 load for steel out to 900 yards. All targets were IPSC with chest flapper and they were stationed at 600,700, 800, and 900. The load was good enough for steel work and grouped well at range. Numbers ended up being AVG 2898, ES 42.2, SD 12.2.
All numbers were obtained from a Garmin mounted on the rifle. Surprisingly there were no pressure signs and I am starting to think you cannot put enough Staball Match into a .223 case to get pressure lol. I loaded the 26.0 load previously and it was only showing 2812 FPS so that's why I started where I did. Overall accuracy was not impressive, and I believe that I am loading in between nodes or something where I am over the middle node and not quite to the extreme fast node. Running 2950 out of a 22" barrel with an 80 ELD is cooking IMO. I planned on finding a load around 2850 but I overshot it. I will start at 25.0 next time and see what happens.
I am still having an issue resizing my brass as I cannot bump the shoulders but the fired brass chambers with light resistance. The Redding die will go back to them this week with fired brass to see what they say.
That is exactly what I have done in my 223AI and it works fine
I'm glad I found this thread. I'm having the same problem with my Redding FL Bushing die when resizing 223 AI. It won't bump my shoulder on my fire-formed brass (Lapua brass on a Redding press). FL-sized brass will chamber just fine, but the die isn't move the shoulder back, even with some serious cam-over. @Kadams1563 let me know what you figure out. I'm excited to see how this Remage build will shoot, but I'd like to get the resizing die issue figured out. I'll be trying Berger 80.5, 80 ELDMs, and 88 ELDMs over Varget. I'll post results after my next trip to the ranch.
Sounds like Lee or custom are the way to go. Only issues I’ve seen are specific to the Reddings.
I bought Lees originally before I went custom and never had an issue.
I bought Lees originally before I went custom and never had an issue.
Have you done anything to the Lee FL die or just use it as is?
I'd usually try to use a bushing die to not over work the brass, but I guess 223 brass is plentiful/cheap enough I don't need to worr about brass life.
Ive just placed an order for a 22cal barrel blank for an AI build. Sounds like enough people having issues with Redding dies I'll just buy some Lee ones and save some money and a headache.
Just used as is… and my chamber ended up around 3 thou short.
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It's strange. I use Redding dies for 10 other cartridges and have always been pleased with their performance. Not sure what the deal is.
I’ve posted about it before, but you can grind/file/sand the top of the shell holder to make the Redding work (as long as you’re not running a co-ax press or something where there is no shell holder).
I had to do that with a Redding BR body die.
Good to know Lee makes a .223 AI die. I’m pretty well done screwing with Redding. I’ve tried 4 of their products. 2 work well, 1 worked with a modified shell holder, one doesn’t work at all. The bitch about Redding is, their stuff is awesome, when it works. And whatever doesn’t work, will be “within spec”.
I’ve not bought a set of Lees in quite a while, but I’ve got 7 sets (that I can think of) running around here and am still amazed at what I got for the money. Hope the quality is stilll there.
I thought RCBS built .223AI dies once upon a time. My RCBS SAAMI .223 sizer die is tits.
I had to do that with a Redding BR body die.
Good to know Lee makes a .223 AI die. I’m pretty well done screwing with Redding. I’ve tried 4 of their products. 2 work well, 1 worked with a modified shell holder, one doesn’t work at all. The bitch about Redding is, their stuff is awesome, when it works. And whatever doesn’t work, will be “within spec”.
I’ve not bought a set of Lees in quite a while, but I’ve got 7 sets (that I can think of) running around here and am still amazed at what I got for the money. Hope the quality is stilll there.
I thought RCBS built .223AI dies once upon a time. My RCBS SAAMI .223 sizer die is tits.
The Lees are surprisingly nice for the ~$30 you pay for the set. I tested case neck runout with the Lee and the custom I had made, and the difference was more or less negligible.
That said, it definitely overworks the brass a little in my experience, especially if using a mandrel to set neck tension. So I would still recommend having a custom one made to your reamer spec if you’re going to be serious about loading AI, but the Lee is more than serviceable if needed.
That said, it definitely overworks the brass a little in my experience, especially if using a mandrel to set neck tension. So I would still recommend having a custom one made to your reamer spec if you’re going to be serious about loading AI, but the Lee is more than serviceable if needed.
My Redding .22BR FL die was sizing the neck down around .018”.
Imagine what it was doing to my Lapua 6BR brass! But Redding told me it was within their “spec”, so, there’s that….
Imagine what it was doing to my Lapua 6BR brass! But Redding told me it was within their “spec”, so, there’s that….
I guess could always open up the lee so it doesn't touch the neck and use a standard 223 bushing die, or even a lee collect die.
Die is heading back to Redding so they can “fix” it or see what they say. I did read they had some .223 ai dies that were out of spec but don’t ask me where I read that.
It’s weird because 5 of us pretty much bought all the same equipment to shoot .223AI and I’m the only one having issues but I’m also the only one loading on a coax. Several of them said they had to grind the die down which I have done but DAMN does are hard as hell to cut in the lathe. That’s some tough ass steel they use lol.
It has been ground down but still not bumping the shoulders so I’m sending it back to the source just to see what they say before I keep chopping the bottom down.
When did you buy your die? Seems like my Redding FL 223AI die is a little tight in the body, losing about .5 gr of capacity with a case full of N133.
Edit: just measured a FL sized and a fired case. It’s sizing it down .003” at the shoulder. Should be fine I guess?
I honestly don’t know when these were purchased. I bought a set that was older and not a bushing set and my buddy had bought several sets of the bushing and competition seaters so he gave me a set that was new in box.
I’m pretty sure any ..223 micrometer seater will work. I’d just order a set of .223AI does and use that seater.
I use a Hornady 223 Rem micrometer seater for both 223 and 223AI. Works great.
Without reading through again to double-check, it seems it is the Redding FL bushing die that is not bumping the shoulders?
Kadams1563, I also use a Co-Ax with my Redding dies. FWIW, mine are the FL bushing sizer and micrometer seater. I bought mine second hand either on here or over on the Shooters' forum years back. They were either new or near new from the ad. The sizing issue may have been why but who knows.
I probably won't bother sending the sizer back as my current AI barrel will chamber the brass without any tightness that I can feel. It shoots very well even to 600 and has averaged well under 1/2" at 100.
Another interesting side to a 223AI (to me anyway) has to do with ES/SD. There are a plethora (needed to use that in a sentence today) of threads about how to get low sd's or not being able to get low sd's with a straight 223. My 223AI will typically give me sd's in high single digits or low teens. I load all ammo the same (OCD) so it isn't technique, tools, or components. Not very scientific but interesting just the same. Maybe that 40° shoulder and straight walls is good for something.
Kadams1563, I also use a Co-Ax with my Redding dies. FWIW, mine are the FL bushing sizer and micrometer seater. I bought mine second hand either on here or over on the Shooters' forum years back. They were either new or near new from the ad. The sizing issue may have been why but who knows.
I probably won't bother sending the sizer back as my current AI barrel will chamber the brass without any tightness that I can feel. It shoots very well even to 600 and has averaged well under 1/2" at 100.
Another interesting side to a 223AI (to me anyway) has to do with ES/SD. There are a plethora (needed to use that in a sentence today) of threads about how to get low sd's or not being able to get low sd's with a straight 223. My 223AI will typically give me sd's in high single digits or low teens. I load all ammo the same (OCD) so it isn't technique, tools, or components. Not very scientific but interesting just the same. Maybe that 40° shoulder and straight walls is good for something.
The 40* shoulder and case taper (lack thereof) is exactly why it’s generally more consistent.
