Range Report .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

hexades1

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Does anyone have any info how the following .284 bullets behave at transsonic speeds and below ?

Berger 180 VLD
Berger 180 "Hybrid"
Berger 168 VLD
Sierra 175 Match King
Hornady 162 A-MAX

I have a .284 Win that can send the regular Berger 180 VLD at 2990 fps (58,0 grein N560 does it) but I will proably throttle it down a little. The rifle has a measured 9.2" twist. I would like to reload a round that would continue to fly well even after it´s speed has dropped to subsonic speeds.

For example Lapua .338 250 Scenar is not bothered by going transsonic and then subsonic which I have witnessed many times. If I could duplicate this behaviour in .284 that would be great.
 

bohem

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

I've shot the 162's and 180 Hybrids through the sound barrier without a problem. It takes a LONG way to get those 180's to go subsonic. I had the load dialed back to 2780 fps from my 7/270 and it still took about 1650yd. With close to 3k you're looking at around an 1850yd shot before you have to worry.
 

Wild_Bill

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

The 175gr Sierra MatchKings are realy good for going transonic either of the 168 or 180gr Berger VLD's dont work well going throught he transonic speed but the newer Hybrids are supposed to but they have a BC lower than the 175gr MatchKings and that is why i chose them i am running them over 3100 and they are awsome through a 30" 7mm Rem SAUM 30" 9 twist barrel.

Hope that helps
 

bohem

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the newer Hybrids are supposed to but they have a BC lower than the 175gr MatchKings
</div></div>

The 175 SMK is higher than .674/.345 BC? Or is that a typo?
 

Jeffvn

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

if you are talking about the Sierra 175 smk 7mm pills that is a typo. They run approximately .640 at least that is the way they respond in my 7WSM at 2,940 fps.

The BErger 180s, pointed up run at .675 at the same velocity. for me in my 7WSM. I recently shot to 1,760 with my BERger 180s and they wree definietly still running abouve the sound barrier on impact with teh steel plate. My brother ran them in his .284 Winchester, to teh same target.. it had lighter hits but still hits on the white steel plate.

JeffVN
 

bohem

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

JeffVN, when you say "pointed up" are you talking about the Hybrid or the VLD?

The Hybrids I'm getting them to .674 right from the box, Bryan gave me the data point and I confirmed it.

A few more points on a Hybrid would push it awfully close to .7, I might have buy/make a pointing die for myself.
 

300sniper

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

my .284 175 smks were tumbling at 1460 yards in 25° out of a 9 twist barrel with a muzzle velocity of around 2850. at 1340 yards in mid 60° weather in the same location, my bullets were still stable and very accurate. i am going to order an 8.5 barrel to replace this one with when it is done.
 

hexades1

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

300sniper: Thanks for the good info. I have actually 9.2 twist so 175 MKs might tumble too far out but I will have to test them too.

WildBill: I had a hunch that 175 MKs might fly nicely through transsonic but I have to test them to know for sure.

Next weekend I will get a chance to test my .284 Win for 300-1400m and possibly get a shot at 1600m and 2000m. We´ll see what happens. Will be shooting Berger 180 VLDs only this time.
 

300sniper

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

sierra recommends an 8.5 twist of faster for the 7mm 175 smks. i am running a 9 and have a suspicion that is why they tumbled after going transonic. the 9 twist seems to be stabilizing them just fine out to 1300 yards, maybe further in nice weather.

edit: once i fit an 8.5 twist barrel i will try shooting beyond the transonic range again to see if the twist was indeed the issue.
 

Jeffvn

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

Bohem... When I say pointed up, I mean a bullet tipping die to close the meplats and give a sharper point on the bullet.

Here look at these they are pointed up... 7WSM is second from the left; 284 Winchester is third from left. Both are using Berger 180s, that have been tipped / pointed up. call it what you want; the meplat is roughly 1/2 its original size. The BC is noticably higher from adding the points. .

IMG_1159med.jpg
 

bohem

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

That's what I figured. You're running them into a bullet pointing die. I noticed that the 180 hybrids I have could use a tighter meplat but didn't know how much it would make a difference. You're getting. 675 from the 180 VLD or the hybrid? That would put the hybrids around .69x if its the VLDs.

Please excuse the piss poor spelling, grammar, etc. I'm stuck with my phone for now since the IT guys are dealing wih a virus epidemic that ripped through the office, no real keyboard.
 

hexades1

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

Got to shoot the Berger 180 VLDs out of my .284 Win last weekend but only between 300m and 1060 meters. They flew just fine.

I got with 58,0 greins of VV N560 905m/s whis is around 3018 fps or so at +25C. No overpressure. No need for a muzzle brake either.

Next I have to test some loads and other bullets just to make sure which one fits my rifle the best.

Anyway getting 900mps/3000 fps with Berger 180 VLD is possible from .284 Win with N560 safely when the round is loaded long i.e. 80,0mm or so. Barrel is a 700mm long 5R from Border Barrel which might explain the fast speeds a little.
Next I will test the 162 Amax, 175 MK and Berger 168 VLD.
 

300sniper

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

ta, that's some pretty impressive velocities. how was the accuracy?
 

hexades1

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

I did not shoot for groups but for reactive targets similar to Larue. I suspect I will get better accuracy with a little tamed loads but that remains to be seen.
 

hexades1

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

I got to shoot 180 VLD, 168 VLD, 162 AMax and 175 Match King at 100 meters for some groups. Loads were maxed out and overalal lengths so that that no bullet was touching the lands.

Results
180 VLD, 900m/s, 5 rounds best group 25mm c-to-c, best 3 rd group 15mm. Solid performance and a keeper.

168 VLD, 922m/s, 45mm and 65mm 5 round groups, seems to be a bit finicky bullet. I will drop this bullet as I do not get enough speed/trajoectory or accuracy to beat the 180 VLD.

162 Amax 943m/s, 40 and 12 mm groups, a pain to reload as 60,1 greins of N560 barely fit into to the case. I will tune it a little with lighter 58-59 grein loads aand look where it leads. Cost is 36% less than with Berger 180 VLDs.

175 Match King 906m/s, 35 and 23mm 5 round groups. Easy to load and looks really promising. Costwise here the same as Berger. Trajectorywise looks very promising too.

All loads with Fed 210 primers and N560 powder. In my rifle I really cannot overload it with N560 and these bullets in summer time i.e. +30C or less.
 

hexades1

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Re: .284 heavies at transsonic/subsonic speeds ?

Got to shoot some more. Unfortunately my barrel started to get copper clad inside pretty fast. Speeds and pressures went up even though I hand lengthened the COL and lessened the powder charges. Groups worsened too.

Anyway I got my best ever group with the Berger 180 VLD. 5 shots at 18mm/100m (c-to-c). This is THE bullet for my rifle. I have not shot a bad group with it so far and I can get it to leave the rifle 900m/s AND stay accurate.

This rilfe just plain likes Berger 180 VLDs (target).