The people who decided the 300 PRC was necessary.
- Thread starter DAVETOOLEY
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probably one of the best explanations I've read in a very long time, thank you, thank you.
makes me understand why I'm being nudged by friends in my 24" barrel to go H1000 and/or N565.
and why my friend with his Savage Elite Precision and the 30" barrel swears by Retumbo.
and why the wife better not become aware that I'm already looking at rebarreling to 28" ... simple reason for not longer... my gun safe won't hold a rifle longer, with a brake on it...
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Folding chassis. Don’t mention that to the wife either…
Thank you for the intel!
I have ordered the Berger 245's but no telling when they will get here.
I have also added H1000 to my store
What does your sizing dies measure at the base (mouth) dimension of the die? I know it is hard to measure with the radius at the bottom but if you can try to measure it at the tangency of the radius/body I would appreciate it.
I also have several friends with the savage elite and 30" bbl that were roasting me and my 26", which is why I went with a 30". My safes also wont allow it to stand up straight. But I run the Area 419 sidewinder self timer which is a tool-less removal to switch over to a can. They sell a protector cap for the muzzle adapter which is how I stow it. Suppressor and brake stay in the bag. JAT
Yeah, from what I understand, Berger does a production run about twice a year, maybe more depending on demand.
I also max load tested the H1000 with the Horny 250's (30" bbl)
75.7: 2853
76.0: 2870(published max)
76.5: 2830
I'll be loading a box up soon with the 76.0 and run them out to 1300 before I head out to the mile/2000 range.
wife knows what the rifle and the scope costed... not the rest of all the supporting gear, which was actually about 2x the rifle/scope cost...
even I"m surprised...
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I can see why to buy say 2000 bullets and enough powder to match... and #1, availability and fck cost just Tina... my piggy bank laughs at me.
but then we have some guys around that laugh at not doing it, they'd sommer do it for 2 years supply if they find stock.
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but then we have some guys around that laugh at not doing it, they'd sommer do it for 2 years supply if they find stock.
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Curious, was / is being nudged to N565... but looking at the numbers for N570, it looks better.
For now it will be either ELDM 225gr or 230 A-Tip's down a 24" barrel.
comments.
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... off topic, sort of, was surprised to see neither N565..N570 or any of the Vihtavuori powders listed in the Hornady reloading manual (10th edition).
For now it will be either ELDM 225gr or 230 A-Tip's down a 24" barrel.
comments.
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... off topic, sort of, was surprised to see neither N565..N570 or any of the Vihtavuori powders listed in the Hornady reloading manual (10th edition).
Did you check VVs website? They are obviously listed there for 300 prc. I am in the process of testing both n570 and n560 w Berger 220 LRHT. That said the number VV lists for 560 seem low to me…. GRT simulation shows pretty low pressures for the recommended max charge…. Anyone directly use this combo? I’m pushing the 220s from a 30” barrel…. Have yet to test the rounds too though.
from VV. PS: these numbers are by them stated as for a 26" barrel, you will notice N570 is quite a bit higher at all the loads.
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Sorry that’s not what I was asking…. The 560
Numbers from GRT show much lower than nominal pressures for the max charge shown above (VVs website). The simulations show that you could push the max charge much higher than VV is showing here…. I was wondering if anyone has tried to…
I'm guessing because Berger(competitor) is in bed with VV.
What kind of performance are these guys getting with the Savage 300 PRC? Action/bolt/chassis opinion or any their MVs I'd love to hear if you have please. Any chance to see the dif with 4" more barrel/mv at distance say 1mile +? Thanks
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Same as any other 300PRC with 30" barrel.
I apologize(again). That was with my 300WM vs their 300WM's. I own 3 RPR's and forget. However, owning 26", 28", and 30" barrels, I successfully predict 25-30fps per inch of pipe when reloading from published data using shorter test barrels. Hope this helps
The Savage Elite Precision, 30" is accurately repeatedly hitting target 1mile + consistently, similar on the 28" as they're pushing the 245 and 250 bullets, that keep speed and direction in wind over those distances, the 225 and 230's battle, you can't push much more than those out of the 24", 26 is like border line, from what I'm seeing from the other guys, past weekend competition results.
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That's great thanks. I'm just dreaming.....all over the place with various 7mm flavors, 300NM/PRC it goes on and on....
so many options, what are we to doooooo
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curious... I've seen a couple of people mention they working out the pressure... comparing they load/pressure against the SAAMI numbers, comparing it to numbers as per attached.
how do you work out the pressure?
I've got a friend that has a spread sheet, where he calculates the burn rate/time, and compare that against the projected speed of the bullet, determining that against the time that the bullet is in the barrel, and relating that to the burn rate, determine how much unburned power goes out the front (aka wastage).
other than quickload and GRT, does anyone have a spread sheet that does this...
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how do you work out the pressure?
I've got a friend that has a spread sheet, where he calculates the burn rate/time, and compare that against the projected speed of the bullet, determining that against the time that the bullet is in the barrel, and relating that to the burn rate, determine how much unburned power goes out the front (aka wastage).
other than quickload and GRT, does anyone have a spread sheet that does this...
G
Attachments
Hey i dont know if this is in the right place.
Two questions
First does the bergara rifles being based on the rem700. L/A fit in a acis ax foldable chassis?
Also, does the 300 win and 300 prc interchange ? Like a 357 will shoot a .38 special?
Thanks
Two questions
First does the bergara rifles being based on the rem700. L/A fit in a acis ax foldable chassis?
Also, does the 300 win and 300 prc interchange ? Like a 357 will shoot a .38 special?
Thanks
WINMAG AND PRC ABSOLUTLEY NOT INTERCHANGABLE.
I have a buddy who is a reloading genius and he's put maybe half a dozen potential candidates up for consideration for our range which taps out at 2k/sea level. Going to let him simmer on that for a bit and will follow his lead at some point.
hi b2lee
2 questions.
1. get the idea this might be something you can assist me with, please cast your eyes over:
Math about pressures, bullet speed/time in the barrel etc
Cross posting, sorry, thinking this deserves a more generic chat/thread. curious... I've seen a couple of people mention they working out the pressure... comparing they load/pressure against the SAAMI numbers, comparing it to numbers as per attached. how do you work out the pressure? I've got...
www.snipershide.com 2. on my powder choice, I'm between N565 and H1000, and being more nudged towards N565... but low and behold, my poor eyes saw the cousins called N570... and seeing the numbers... wondering why not... might it be that N570 would give these numbers in a 26" barrel, but not in my little (I'm to short... 24") exhaust.
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Attachments
@georgelza @8pointer it has nothing to do with the name on the cartrdge it's about the ability to launch a heavy high BC bullet at high velocity. A 300 PRC and 300 RUM or 300 NM shooting the same bullet at the same velocity have the same trajectory, simple. You may be able to get a bit more velocity out of one or the other.
Yes I would run N570 in a 300PRC,
Yes I would run N570 in a 300PRC,
as much as I agree, think this is actually one of those subjects that falls under a it depends, its not just the caliber, it's depending on the bullet weight and the barrel length, which then define the powder used and how much.
as said, get the idea in a 24" for a 230 gr N564 would be good option (not discounting H1K) while a 230 or 250gr in a 26" would suit N570 and for 245/250gr in a 28"+ barrel Retumbo would be the go to.
G
Sounds like you need to buy a bunch of different powders and shoot your rifle with as many combinations as possible. Please report back with your findings. I’m sure someone else will eventually order a 24” barrel by accident.
This...
You will find that in a 24 inch barrel....you won't be able to get the speed you are looking for...and will see a large fireball at your muzzle because the burn rate for N570 is slow enough to where you aren't getting close to a full powder burn in that short of a barrel. I personally wouldn't run anything slow like N570 or even Retumbo until after 30 inches..and I found Retumbo to be horrid in my personal testing.
N565 in that 26-28" barrels....you will most likely find that in the 22-24" barrels that H1000 is a nice burn rate that offers you a better speed with lower pressure than other powders. I personally run RL-26 in a 29.5" barrel. I've had several barrels on this thing and 28-30 inches...RL-26 has been the go to powder for me. I don't give one flying whatever for what a book says....or what GRT says....you have to know why those numbers are what they are. Each rifle is a unique biosphere and you have to feed it what it likes. You have to shoot AT DISTANCE and not some 100yd group. You have to understand everything that is involved to make that bullet/cartridge....cause that peak pressure, retain that inertial pressure.....that burn rate to a certain length in your barrel....achieve that bullet speed.....cause that harmonic.....
Several of us have great success with different answers to that question...because each rifle is different....and different combinations can get you to where you want to go. We must understand the HOW and the WHY things do what they do....and feed the gun exactly what it wants.
For me...that is 76.0gr of RL-26....Lapua brass with a 2thou shoulder bump....trimmed .003" less than the start of the throat.....with a 245gr Berger EOL going about 2900fps in a 29.5" barrel....seated to a depth of where the bullets boat tail junction is .003" longer than where the Neck/Shoulder junction is...with a certain neck bushing.....with the brass annealed to a certain AMP Code.......with a certain mandrel opening the mouth....and the gun just smiles everytime I pull the trigger.
N565 in that 26-28" barrels....you will most likely find that in the 22-24" barrels that H1000 is a nice burn rate that offers you a better speed with lower pressure than other powders. I personally run RL-26 in a 29.5" barrel. I've had several barrels on this thing and 28-30 inches...RL-26 has been the go to powder for me. I don't give one flying whatever for what a book says....or what GRT says....you have to know why those numbers are what they are. Each rifle is a unique biosphere and you have to feed it what it likes. You have to shoot AT DISTANCE and not some 100yd group. You have to understand everything that is involved to make that bullet/cartridge....cause that peak pressure, retain that inertial pressure.....that burn rate to a certain length in your barrel....achieve that bullet speed.....cause that harmonic.....
Several of us have great success with different answers to that question...because each rifle is different....and different combinations can get you to where you want to go. We must understand the HOW and the WHY things do what they do....and feed the gun exactly what it wants.
For me...that is 76.0gr of RL-26....Lapua brass with a 2thou shoulder bump....trimmed .003" less than the start of the throat.....with a 245gr Berger EOL going about 2900fps in a 29.5" barrel....seated to a depth of where the bullets boat tail junction is .003" longer than where the Neck/Shoulder junction is...with a certain neck bushing.....with the brass annealed to a certain AMP Code.......with a certain mandrel opening the mouth....and the gun just smiles everytime I pull the trigger.
Hi @b2lee, thanks. as hinted, was thinking that maybe the 24" was too short for N570, so my "guess" at this time was correct. I'm interested to get to know not just the answers, but the math etc behind the answer, understand how to work out the pressure and the pressure curve and timing, for the various powders and then see how that fits into the rifle.
interesting comment on N565, got the impression from allot of people that it might be perfect for my 24", but now your nudge to rather stick to H1k. As you say, I will have to find out what my rifle like, so many as per triumphs semi sarcastic comment above, buy one point of each and see what it prefers, performs best with.
to what extend would the bullet weight impact the powder selection, thinking a heavier bullet might utilise more powder/pressure to get going.
aka a N565 in 24" and a R215 would be a fire blowing monster, but that same powder with a 250gr bullet (no i;m not planning to in 24") but that combination might have more kickback at the pressure, slow this down that nano second, thus reducong the flame blower.
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Have you fired your rifle yet? I'm looking for your post with original question and cant find it. Not sure if all of this is in theory only? B2lee pretty much spelled it out several times. Can you share where your at with what you have and where you want to go? I by no means am trying to be rude, just lost in the War and Peace.
Lol, at some point you have to stop fantasizing and stick it in the hole...let the magic happen.
btuse/abn31c
I actually clearly stated before no, waiting for my license, components are just crazy expensive/impossible to get. So we can’t just try 5 different loads, I need to do as much homework before hand and try and end with 2 most probable’s.
And ye I’d love to be able to send it myself… but not yet. So mean time… as everyone here normally also say… do your home work… so now that’s what I’m dying to do.
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I actually clearly stated before no, waiting for my license, components are just crazy expensive/impossible to get. So we can’t just try 5 different loads, I need to do as much homework before hand and try and end with 2 most probable’s.
And ye I’d love to be able to send it myself… but not yet. So mean time… as everyone here normally also say… do your home work… so now that’s what I’m dying to do.
G
The magic for me was the ignore option. i was starting to question my sanity. I wish him the best.Lol, at some point you have to stop fantasizing and stick it in the hole...let the magic happen.
will, as soon as I get my license and allowed to collect my rifle.Lol, at some point you have to stop fantasizing and stick it in the hole...let the magic happen.
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let me ask,
so my understanding... powder burn speed implies it takes longer to build pressure, implying you need a longer barrel for it to be effective,
powder volume just defines the volume of pressure build, not the speed on the curve ramps.
thinking how pressure works, volume A in a large space would take longer to reach a pressure point to push a projectile out at speed X vs volume B in a smaller space.
Other way round is a larger volume of powder in a large space vs a smaller volume of powder in a smaller space, Initial pressure before the bullet pops might be the same, the difference here being after the initial pop, the larger volume would continue longer up that pressure curve, especially useful in a longer barrel, with a higher weight projectile.
how far of the base would I be?
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so my understanding... powder burn speed implies it takes longer to build pressure, implying you need a longer barrel for it to be effective,
powder volume just defines the volume of pressure build, not the speed on the curve ramps.
thinking how pressure works, volume A in a large space would take longer to reach a pressure point to push a projectile out at speed X vs volume B in a smaller space.
Other way round is a larger volume of powder in a large space vs a smaller volume of powder in a smaller space, Initial pressure before the bullet pops might be the same, the difference here being after the initial pop, the larger volume would continue longer up that pressure curve, especially useful in a longer barrel, with a higher weight projectile.
how far of the base would I be?
G
Pic/attachment isn’t down loading so this might be repetitive.
There is also the volume of gas after the burn.
In theory you can make the case/pressure vessel so small that one grain of powder creates a immense pressure.
But the amount/volume of gas created would not be enough to move the bullet out of the barrel as it’s a burn not a explosion.
pic/attachment is the powder burn speed pdf of 2020, sure everyone has it.
100% on your amount/volume addition/comment.
Larger caliber/longer barrel require more powder to keep pressure long enough on projectile's ass, without it being a pure flame thrower out the front of unburned powder..
aka pressure curve with a spike far enough time wise down barrel to build up maximum speed generating enough force to accelerate projectile
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100% on your amount/volume addition/comment.
Larger caliber/longer barrel require more powder to keep pressure long enough on projectile's ass, without it being a pure flame thrower out the front of unburned powder..
aka pressure curve with a spike far enough time wise down barrel to build up maximum speed generating enough force to accelerate projectile
G
Update. Shot my first buck with 300 PRC
212gr ELD-X at 2850 FPS
160yds broadside shot
Result was devastating double lung pass through with a giant exit wound approximately 3.00” wide.
Also loaded up some 200gr Partitions over 79.0gr MagPro. Will try them next.
This thing hits hard.
212gr ELD-X at 2850 FPS
160yds broadside shot
Result was devastating double lung pass through with a giant exit wound approximately 3.00” wide.
Also loaded up some 200gr Partitions over 79.0gr MagPro. Will try them next.
This thing hits hard.
Chalk up one more deer for the 300 PRC. About 100 yards with a 208gr. Berger LRHT at 2,900 ft/s. Quartering towards me, entrance just in front of the near side shoulder and exit in the ribs behind the far side front shoulder. Fist size hole in the near side ribs, but the shoulder itself was fine. Took out the top of the heart and lungs and then the exit was only 1-1.5". The bullet must have pretty much exploded inside the rib cage, so that worked about perfectly.
Hello everyone.
I have a Bergara hmr 300 prc with the bolt click problem.
Buy the 300 prc Aw2 reamer.
The other day I came home. I sent the rifle to Bergara along with the reamer and they did the job for me.
Today I have been testing and I still have the problem, although much less.
Brass fired in their 4 firing .534" at the .200 line
Brass full with wilson die .532.5" in the .200 line
-should I be seeing .535" on the .200 line after reaming?
-Do I have the problem with the wilson die that does not recalibrate enough?
-It seems that people can continue using the same brass after the bolt click problem or should I buy new brass?
Thank you all
I have a Bergara hmr 300 prc with the bolt click problem.
Buy the 300 prc Aw2 reamer.
The other day I came home. I sent the rifle to Bergara along with the reamer and they did the job for me.
Today I have been testing and I still have the problem, although much less.
Brass fired in their 4 firing .534" at the .200 line
Brass full with wilson die .532.5" in the .200 line
-should I be seeing .535" on the .200 line after reaming?
-Do I have the problem with the wilson die that does not recalibrate enough?
-It seems that people can continue using the same brass after the bolt click problem or should I buy new brass?
Thank you all
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