- Thread starter DAVETOOLEY
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Reflections at 1 Mile...
Got the opportunity to shoot a mile the other day. well almost at 1730yds 4x3 steel tgt(big but not too big for a mile ish.
Barrett Mk22 - 26" 300 PRC CF barrel 1:8
76gr RL-26 - 2900 FPS
Lapua brass
GM215M
230gr A-Tip
Elevation 15.3 mils
Surprisingly I got 10/13 hits at that range.
Got the opportunity to shoot a mile the other day. well almost at 1730yds 4x3 steel tgt(big but not too big for a mile ish.
Barrett Mk22 - 26" 300 PRC CF barrel 1:8
76gr RL-26 - 2900 FPS
Lapua brass
GM215M
230gr A-Tip
Elevation 15.3 mils
Surprisingly I got 10/13 hits at that range.
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Lapua .300 PRC Brass
Lapua .300 PRC Brass The .300 PRC was designed for extreme long range shooting with heavy bullets featuring high ballistic coefficients. Its superior ballistics and beltless case configuration represent modern case design that supports the use of modern long and high BC bullets. With its...
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Question - can I convert a Remington 700 in 375 h&h / wby mag to a .300 PRC?? Found one local for a good deal. TYIA
Finally able to share some data on a West Texas Ordnance 300 PRC.
HS Precision M24 Stock
Impact 787R
Bix N Andy Trigger
Bartlein Carbon Fiber 24" 1-9 Twist
Insite Arms Heathen Brake
Rifle sits at 13 lbs with optics.
Played with N568, N570 and N565 and Berger 220 LRHT at .025 off the lands.
First powder tested was N568 which was accurate but had high ES numbers, like 25 fps
Next up was N570 which the rifle didn't like and neither did my shoulder. Definitely a different recoil pulse than the N568
Moved on to N565 and found the sweet spot, most likely due to a shorter barrel and faster powder. Very accurate, every group around the 78 gr mark shoots 3/8 or less but was still having an issue with high ES. Started playing with neck tension and could see the ES drop as the barrel broke in.
Seems to like the CCI 250 primers a little more than Fed 215's, at least in vertical spread at 100 yards but will be taking it out to 600 soon.
Current load is:
Berger 220 LRHT at .025 off
78.8 grs N565
CCI 250
.3055 Mandrel on Virgin Lapua Brass
Avg Velocity 2844 fps
ES 9 fps
HS Precision M24 Stock
Impact 787R
Bix N Andy Trigger
Bartlein Carbon Fiber 24" 1-9 Twist
Insite Arms Heathen Brake
Rifle sits at 13 lbs with optics.
Played with N568, N570 and N565 and Berger 220 LRHT at .025 off the lands.
First powder tested was N568 which was accurate but had high ES numbers, like 25 fps
Next up was N570 which the rifle didn't like and neither did my shoulder. Definitely a different recoil pulse than the N568
Moved on to N565 and found the sweet spot, most likely due to a shorter barrel and faster powder. Very accurate, every group around the 78 gr mark shoots 3/8 or less but was still having an issue with high ES. Started playing with neck tension and could see the ES drop as the barrel broke in.
Seems to like the CCI 250 primers a little more than Fed 215's, at least in vertical spread at 100 yards but will be taking it out to 600 soon.
Current load is:
Berger 220 LRHT at .025 off
78.8 grs N565
CCI 250
.3055 Mandrel on Virgin Lapua Brass
Avg Velocity 2844 fps
ES 9 fps
What was the speed on the n568 vs n565
N568 was 2800 at 83 grs up to 2900 at 84 grs and then I actually lost velocity from 84.2-84.6 to around 2870-2880 and 84.8 grs got back up to 2900. No heavy bolt lift or marks on the brass, accuracy was up and down and those charge weights really filled the case. High ES throughout except at 83 grs it was 3 but I discounted it because the speed was a little lower than I was hoping for, accuracy was just ok and being a very small sample size.
I'm guessing you just don't have the barrel length for the slower powders.
My back up load is 78.5gr of N565. Rifle prefers the 76.0 grains of RL-26....both shoot great though.
I ran 78.5 with the Federal 215 primers and ended up trying the CCI 250's to see if I could calm the ES down. Bumped the charge to 78.8 and liked what I was seeing but I have yet to hit any distance with it. The groups at 100 with CCI are very flat though so I'm hoping to see more of the same at longer range.
I know you like the 245 Berger and I do as well but I keep them for my 300 Norma. This rifle is lighter and the barrel is shorter so I feel the 220 is a good match for it.
I can’t remember what your load was, is this with the 245 Bergers? Do you just shoot benchrest only with these or do you just do longer range shooting?
Yes...245 Bergers... 1mile bench rest and ELR out to 2500 yards with this load. I did have a 1 mile group record with this load until it got beat a few months ago. I've won a few ELR matches with this load and had great success with it.
For the 'short stuff' like 1000yds...I use the 6 Dasher.
Are you going to give the 245 LRHT a try if we ever see them?
I've already tried them....really good bullet...didn't seen any noticeable difference at 1 mile. Then again at 1 mile....is it the bullet?....or is it me? Load was the exact same.
What??!!!!!! How did you get them? Did you have to use less elevation at that distance?
They have been sold in retail for like 37 seconds...a few months ago...I got a tester batch from Capstone very early in the year. I got the same 15.5 mils at a mile as with my current load.
What’s the COAL for this load? I’m assuming you have a longer that standard throat. Both the 230 & 250 A-Tips that I’ve been using set well below the neck / shoulder junction.
Has anyone had any success with 230/240gr cutting edge solids, and if so what powders , or any other solids , the 230 and 250 atips are great just looking to see what I can squeeze outa the 300
Thanks
Thanks
They are lower BC than the 250 a-tips... PVA has a 30 cal bullet that I think has a G7 of .555
I finally finished off my ladder test with 245s and N568.
88F 49% RH
81.4 2798
81.6 2807 (tight group)
81.8 2829 (tight group)
82.0 2829 (tight group)
82.2 2867
82.4 2835
82.6 2848
82.8 2872
83.0 2885
83.2 2877
83.4 2879
I could have kept going but I felt it was getting hot with light ejector marks and slight increase in bolt lift.
Going to load a few at 78.3ish, 80.7ish, 81.9ish. Will report.
I'm headed back out to re-evaluate N568 as a possibility with the Berger 220's. I think I gave up on it a little too soon because of high SD's but it was the first 50 rds through the barrel. Almost 200 rds down the tube and the load with N565 opened up more than I would like st 300 yards so I'm going to dump everything at 100 and just work up a load with both powders at 300.
I was trying to rush a load together and should have realized anything before 200 rds and less than 300 yards is all just barrel break in period.
I was trying to rush a load together and should have realized anything before 200 rds and less than 300 yards is all just barrel break in period.
@LongRangeAggie you are getting me excited for my 30 Sherman Mag with that load Data. What is the COAL of your rounds with the 245's?
Yeah I probably should have waited on this barrel too, it's only at 100 rounds. Oh well.
You should be able to get 2900+ easily with that SM. My coal on these is just shy of mag length at 3.746".
I am hoping to run them in the mag also so that's about what I'll be looking at for COAL also. 32"barrel so I'm hoping for 3k ish, by your numbers I may even be in the 3100 range
N570 or RL33 should get you there. I run them anywhere from 2950-3025 with my 300 Norma with a 26" barrel and my buddy is hitting 3100 with a 30 SM and Berger 220's but a shorter barrel.
A couple of observations.
Using my technique you shouldn't be wasting ammo shooting groups when testing new powders. You simply run a single round across a MagnetoSpeed or Labradar and check the speed and then look for pressure signs. If the Speed isn't what you want and no signs of pressure, you go up a half grain. Keep doing this until you find the speed you are looking for or you find pressure signs that are unacceptable on a hot day.
If the powder is good for your particular set up, next we do seating depth testing to tighten up those groups. With the 245gr EOL or like bullets, we really shouldn't be trying to shove the bullet down into the powder column to fit the CIP magazines. We should be single feeding them. If you want to mag feed 300PRC then pick a more appropriate bullet in the 225 or less category.
You see where at 82.8 to 83.4 you have a so called 'velocity flat spot'....yea...all that is.....your powder burn isn't 100% any more, due to powder burn rate of the barrel versus the length of your barrel and the resistance of your bullet in said barrel. Thus, this is just a nice fireball at the end wasting powder.
The secret sauce of course is 76.0gr of RL-26 or 78.5gr of N565 in an appropriate length barrel...28"+ with annealed and mandreled brass with a slight hint of carbon in the necks for lube reaching my target speed of 2900fps. Bullet seated to where the bullets boat tail junction is directly in line with the brass neck/shoulder junction. Drop powder using a magnetic scale that can do down to the individual kernel and you wont be missing because of the ammo.
Just an observation.....
B2
@b2lee there is a million ways to skin a cat.
I didn't take his process as saying he shot groups I took as those 3 rounds went into a group. Do you have any evidence to support your claim of "unburnt powder"? that doesn't seem to correlate to the fact that typically you will see 2 or more "flat spots" in a powder test.
I understand the idea of seating the bullets out but it's not always conducive to the application and who really cares if you are getting the performance you want.
also secret sauce recipes aren't universal. it may be a starting point but you always need to fine tune to rifle.
I didn't take his process as saying he shot groups I took as those 3 rounds went into a group. Do you have any evidence to support your claim of "unburnt powder"? that doesn't seem to correlate to the fact that typically you will see 2 or more "flat spots" in a powder test.
I understand the idea of seating the bullets out but it's not always conducive to the application and who really cares if you are getting the performance you want.
also secret sauce recipes aren't universal. it may be a starting point but you always need to fine tune to rifle.
I wasn't shooting groups, just a single round at each charge. Like @Taylorbok mentioned, those 3 charges (81.6, 81.8, & 82.0) landed with .25" of each other, that tells me there might be a node there.
I will do seating test after I find a powder charge to further accurize the load.
I don't think I'll have an issue running the 245 at a 0.050" jump (some Bergers actually like more jump), but time will tell. Using a drop tube funnel, I didn't get compressed loads until ~83.6grs.
Thanks for the input.
And I'm here to tell you guys...there is no such thing as a powder node....just inaccuracies in how we measure powder....difference in pressure of one bullet to the next due to a half thou in bullet dimensions, difference in bearing surface....bullet weight...and many other issues...including neck tension, lube...whatever.
Using slow powders....you can only burn so much powder in a given length of barrel. Anything left over will flash when it hits the oxygen outside the barrel.
The best your barrel will ever shoot is between round 200 and maybe up to 600....That is the sweet spot for setting records...whether personal best or world records. Load development with quality components and custom actions/chambers should no longer take more than 20 rounds. We've made all the mistakes and misguided testing for you guys for the last 30+ years. Learn from our mistakes and do it the simple way.
Using slow powders....you can only burn so much powder in a given length of barrel. Anything left over will flash when it hits the oxygen outside the barrel.
The best your barrel will ever shoot is between round 200 and maybe up to 600....That is the sweet spot for setting records...whether personal best or world records. Load development with quality components and custom actions/chambers should no longer take more than 20 rounds. We've made all the mistakes and misguided testing for you guys for the last 30+ years. Learn from our mistakes and do it the simple way.
Do you wait til there's 200 rounds on the barrel before load work up?
@b2lee I've chosen a powder charge based on velocity/ pressure and it works also, no doubt about that. I've had good luck with both ways.
I do sort of feel the flat spots in the powder test are just random dispersion of ES and errors because I can't get them to repeat consistently.
You do have me curious how you are doing seating depth in under 10 rounds?
I do sort of feel the flat spots in the powder test are just random dispersion of ES and errors because I can't get them to repeat consistently.
You do have me curious how you are doing seating depth in under 10 rounds?
How am I supposed to find the charge limit where 100% of the powder is burned?
Depends...is it a new to me caliber?...I'll get close with just loading a few up for checking velocity knowing it will speed up. Bullet seating for me is to load at the boat tail/shoulder junction and working out up to 6 thou...
For rebarreling twice a year on my 300PRC....I run the SAME EXACT load from barrel to barrel...because my gunsmith (Bugholes) makes my chamber exact...a round fired from one will measure the same exact shoulder measurement as brass fired from the other...as long as I process my brass right.
So...load development is pre-done really from barrel to barrel. I probably average 2.5 barrels a year.
This is a luxury of being able to find powder in bulk, frick I can barely run same charge from weekend to weekend due to lot changes, powder shortage is much worse up here in Canada.
still wanna know about 10 round seating depth
You looking for a charge limit?...or a speed you desire with pressure you can live with? I just load up a few in half grain increments and find that spot.
I used to absolutely despise this statement....but..."You should always buy enough components to last atleast one barrel"..there...yuck...expensive..but geez it is soooo true and makes life easier.
10 Round seating depth. I've posted it several times in this very thread...but here it goes.
Load up 3 rounds at each length.
Start by holding the brass in your left hand...the bullet in your right hand....bring them together in front of your eyes... See where the boat tail meets the bearing surface? See where the shoulder of the brass meets the neck? Align those two points with your seating die.
Load three
Load 3 that are 0.003 longer
Load 3 that are 0.003 longer than that
Repeat this a few times.
Now...take the LONGEST ones and shoot two at 100 yards. If you are happy you did your part...trigger pull was great....no parallax in the scope....everything felt right. IF the two holes aren't touching....DON'T shoot the third...set it aside.
Go down through the progression. When you find two touching....shoot a 3rd...this confirms the group.
Call it a day...take the long ones that didn't shoot one hole...and re-seat them down to your measurement.
Go shoot a match.
After your barrel speeds up...you will have to tweak these loads 3 to 6 thou. People don't really realize how tiny a seating depth window is. They will go in 10 thou increments and unluckily never hit in a window that they would like.
Using Lapua Brass, Berger Bullets, quality powder, LE Wilson Dies, NO SIZING BALL...but use a Mandrel instead, AMP annealer... Autotrickler V3/V4.....trimming EVERY TIME but rarely actually skimming the mouths...2 thou shoulder bump.....this stuff gets very easy.
I agree with the components thing but straight up has not been an option in the last 2 years here. I'm lucky to find 2 lbs at a time it's either deal with that or quit shooting.
Your seating depth is essentially the same as mine but I almost always shoot 10 different depths just to be sure, I've never thought about saving the third round that's a good tip
I've been real lucky with finding what I need. I have friends that will pick up anything I need...or atleast call me and tell me where it is. I'm on reloading discords and buy in the 30 seconds that someone has something in stock.
I bought 16lbs of RL-26 at one time in 2x8lb jugs this year. I've bought 5k primers at a time several times...and 1000 Bergers or more at one time. It's all about finding stuff and buying all you can. I don't buy from shops that limit me to 1 lb...whether a local store or online. I will buy stuff that I know someone else needs and do trades...or simply buy because I know they are in need.
I had a friend buy 4x8lb jugs of RL-26 this year and sell me one of those. I sold 500 225ELD-M's that I bought just because I knew someone would need them. The good news is.....lots and lots of stuff coming back on line now. After the first of the year, before next years season, you should see prices fall and inventories rise.
Never get caught again thinking you can simply buy what you need when you want. When the prices drop and over shoot because of a temporary over supply...buy enough for YEARS of shooting.
I bought 16lbs of RL-26 at one time in 2x8lb jugs this year. I've bought 5k primers at a time several times...and 1000 Bergers or more at one time. It's all about finding stuff and buying all you can. I don't buy from shops that limit me to 1 lb...whether a local store or online. I will buy stuff that I know someone else needs and do trades...or simply buy because I know they are in need.
I had a friend buy 4x8lb jugs of RL-26 this year and sell me one of those. I sold 500 225ELD-M's that I bought just because I knew someone would need them. The good news is.....lots and lots of stuff coming back on line now. After the first of the year, before next years season, you should see prices fall and inventories rise.
Never get caught again thinking you can simply buy what you need when you want. When the prices drop and over shoot because of a temporary over supply...buy enough for YEARS of shooting.
Ya I've found powder I need in stock lots online in the states and they won't ship to Canada. Primers I haven't been able to get for 2 years also but I had a decent supply. Im starting to get down tho.
Ah...didn't notice you were in Canada....my condolences. I do however support your economy by buying MDT ACC's and Trigger Tech triggers.
Bugholes is awesome I'm actually waiting on a new barrel from them right now shipped today. That is really nice and makes life super easy. So after the barrel speed up you just adjust load back down to sweet spot?
You do very fine tune seating to get back. I usually lower the charge and keep the seating the same but that makes sense and prolly easier
