.308 can and load question

[forrest2906]

I have a new can that just arrived ( proswat ) and was wondering if anyone else had one like this. I curently have it on a DPMS lr308 (tac20 model) and was going to work on some reduced loads for it. I live in an area where this would work well for coyotes and such. I also have a 700PSS that I was going to have threaded for this can and was looking for advice on loads, and or guidance for a can newbie.
Thanks for your time. Forrest

 

[bohem]

Re: .308 can and load question

What kind of goals do you have for the reduced loads?

Chasing subonics from centerfire rifles like the 308 is somewhat of an art form as much as a science. I've done a fair amount of it, it's like a black hobby for my dad. He loves that kind of stuff.

Best thing you can do for getting ideas about how your can works and how to best employ it's potental is to get this book and read it cover to cover. The one you want is Vol 2, Vol 1 is mostly history and not much data or building information.

Also, beware of shooting too light a round for the detonation effect that you can get. This is incredibly dangerous if you have it happen.



To get "silent" shooting you're going to need to shoot subsonic, if you just want to reduce muzzle signature and blast shoot whatever you want through it.

For a close coyote round I'd suggest you get some heavy cast bullets with a gas check, like a 220grain round nose and use Unique in a reduced capacity case from the bolt gun, the semi auto most likely won't cycle with the reduced volume of gas from that round.

There's literally books of information written on this forum about them, search for "subsonic loads" in the reloading depot. I think that there's a thread dedicated to it.

Personally, i don't shoot jacketed bullets subsonic, it's too much like flirting with disaster and the round nose lead behave better for both my dad and myself.

Unique, Red Dot and Trail Boss are awesome powders for this endeavor.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: .308 can and load question

subsonic?
I use 10grn of trail boss with 175SMK in 11.27twist barrel. Bolt gun.

 

[malaga2]

Re: .308 can and load question

10.1 grains of Trailboss behind a 180 grain round nose....I would not shoot cast bullets through a suppressor!!

 

[bohem]

Re: .308 can and load question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Malaga2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10.1 grains of Trailboss behind a 180 grain round nose....I would not shoot cast bullets through a suppressor!! </div></div>

Why not, have you ever tried it?

I have more gas checked cast through my dad's 45 cal suppressor than I do jacketed bullets, when I say we've shot everything we can think of with it, I'm talking a range of 180-460 grain cast lead with and without gas checks. Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Trail Boss, and even micro-charges of Blue Dot (but it's kind iffy results and dirty)

I've ripped a can apart only 1 time and it was with a jacketed bullet. We were using a cotton ball to help take up case capacity on top of the charge, a wad was left in the can and the second shot caused a baffle strike.

We don't shoot cotton ball ammo anymore, just reduce the case capacity with a dedicated set of brass and some JB weld. It works about as long as a regular piece of brass survives full power loads (20ish loads).

Almost all of his shooting is done with cast bullets in everything because his yard only gets him to 175yd and my mom gets annoyed after a couple rounds of super sonic ammo. Therefore, each thing he shoots a lot of has been turned, threaded and a cast bullet subsonic round developed for it.

 

[Savage_Fan]

Re: .308 can and load question

I use the same load with the can as I do without it.

Subsonic from a rifle cartridge like 308 seems silly to me...

 

[forrest2906]

Re: .308 can and load question

Thanks for all the info. I have some speer 180rn, and some trailboss that I was going to use. I had been doing some reading for the last couple of weeks about this and was coming up with some stuff very close to what was mentioned here. I may get to work on a few loads this evening, and will borrow a chrono from a buddy. I was thinking somewhere in the 11-10 grain range with the trailboss and work with that. I know each gun is different, and it is getting warmer here today ( about 90 ) and that will effect things also. appreciate the help. I do not care about the gun cycling, that is not the design with this type of round. If I can get something that is accurate in the 100-150 meter range that would be great. Then I will work on the 700pss after working with the dpms. Once again, thanks, and i will keep you posted on how it goes. Great site with great info.

 

[bohem]

Re: .308 can and load question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Savage_Fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the same load with the can as I do without it.

Subsonic from a rifle cartridge like 308 seems silly to me... </div></div>

It has it's time and place. Backyard plinking without neighbors or spouses getting annoyed is one of them, nuisance animal termination at night, etc.

Anything where quiet is a major concern is where I use reduced, subsonic loads in the 308 class rifle cartridges. That's one of the major reasons I use a 220grn cast bullet in the 30cals. Then I've got basically a 22LR ballistic table (close range appx) but it's got about 6 times the mass, so 6 times the instantaneous hit the 22 would create.

I wouldn't consider SS ammo to have a place on the 600y line under anything but the most extreme circumstances.

 

[Ranb]

Re: .308 can and load question

I shoot cast bullets in 300, 338, 510 whispers, 458 socom, 9mm and 22lr. I get extra gunk in the can especially when shooting wet, but it is easy to clean when the can is taken apart. I have not tried cast in 308 or 223, and I do not intend to as the subsonic listed above will perform better than anything subsonic in my 308 (1-12 twist) or 223 (1-9 twist).

If you really want to try the subsonics in your 308, then a fast burning pistol powder will probably be your best bet. I use surplus WC820 (like H110) for all of my subsonic cartridges except 45 acp and 9mm, it even worked well with 7 grains loaded behind a .224 speer 70 grain soft point. Even when the case is less than half full I get lower stdev's. The only time I got a bullet stuck in the barrel was when I was trying to find the line between a subsonic load and a stuck bullet. 5 grains of WC820 gave about 600 fps, 4 got stuck.

Ranb

 

[usma89]

Re: .308 can and load question

8.5g of Clays 170g Flat Nose Lee factory crimp.
I used to use flash cotton as a filler but it was too expensive.

 

[bohem]

Re: .308 can and load question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usma89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">8.5g of Clays 170g Flat Nose Lee factory crimp.
I used to use flash cotton as a filler but it was too expensive.

</div></div>

I hadn't thought to try gun cotton in them, that's a good idea.

 

[Grump]

Re: .308 can and load question

Whatever happened to using Dacron pillow fuzz to hold the powder in place.

My sources indicated that it burns completely in the barrel and leaves no noticeable residue in cases smaller than .500 Nitro Express.

 

[forrest2906]

Re: .308 can and load question

Guys, thanks for all the help so far. Did not get a chance to go out and chrono anything yet, and have not put anything on paper to see about keyholing or not. It looks like anything in the 11.0-12.0 range of trailboss is still not making hardly any noise at all. It seems that below 11.0 grains and I was starting to get bullets that stuck just at the end of the barrel. When I unscrewed the can, you could see half of the bullet. Easy fix. Bumped up the load a couple of tenths.
ran a rag down the barrel and ran an oiled rag down the barrel. i may have forgotten to run an oiled rag between too many shots and that could possibly account for the sticking issue. ( any thoughts or knowledge here would be appreciated) The rifle being used is a DPMS
LR-308. This is the TAC-20, 4 railed model. None of the loads would cycle the chamber, but that was not the goal here. The only time a round would eject was when a bullet stuck at the end of the barrel, my theory was then there was enough back pressure to cycle and eject the round. Shooting this from inside a shop (garage) out to a railroad tie
about 50-70 yards ( I live in the country ) and all you hear is the slight crack at the rifle, then the whack at the railroad tie. I will measure later for more distance accuracy.

 

[bohem]

Re: .308 can and load question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: forrest2906</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, thanks for all the help so far. Did not get a chance to go out and chrono anything yet, and have not put anything on paper to see about keyholing or not. It looks like anything in the 11.0-12.0 range of trailboss is still not making hardly any noise at all. It seems that below 11.0 grains and I was starting to get bullets that stuck just at the end of the barrel. When I unscrewed the can, you could see half of the bullet. Easy fix. Bumped up the load a couple of tenths.
ran a rag down the barrel and ran an oiled rag down the barrel. i may have forgotten to run an oiled rag between too many shots and that could possibly account for the sticking issue. ( any thoughts or knowledge here would be appreciated) The rifle being used is a DPMS
LR-308. This is the TAC-20, 4 railed model. None of the loads would cycle the chamber, but that was not the goal here. The only time a round would eject was when a bullet stuck at the end of the barrel, my theory was then there was enough back pressure to cycle and eject the round. Shooting this from inside a shop (garage) out to a railroad tie
about 50-70 yards ( I live in the country ) and all you hear is the slight crack at the rifle, then the whack at the railroad tie. I will measure later for more distance accuracy. </div></div>

I would take the can off to do "min load limit" development so that in the case of a BARELY released projectile it doesn't rattle through the can and cause damage. If sticks you can easily figure that out without a can on it.

Also, I've generally seen that my lead loads are a couple grains more than minimum "stick point" for a just barely subsonic load.

I'm not sure I understand the point of looking to see how slow you can shoot a projectile other than looking for a "don't go below" level.

My philosophy is to shoot the heaviest bullet the closest I possibly can to the sonic limit so that I minimize drop and retain the highest level of energy to deposit in the target.

Sounds like you're having fun with it, if I could shoot out of my garage into a railroad tie I'd probably do little else than shoot, reload and play with subsonic loads.

 

[forrest2906]

Re: .308 can and load question

This comment you made hits it right on the head for me.

------------------------------------------------------------
My philosophy is to shoot the heaviest bullet the closest I possibly can to the sonic limit so that I minimize drop and retain the highest level of energy to deposit in the target.-----------------------

I am just trying to find a load that is stable, reliable, and works well on a coyote, badger, or bear sized animal. This is the only gun that I have threaded for a can, so I started working on a load for it with items I already had and formulas I found here.
this is meant to be a maybe 100 yard max for a coyote load...
Or practice in the barnyard without spooking all the critters when the weather sucks outside.
I also have a 2245 that has an integrated can. A guy I know locally here in Idaho made it and I just got it about 2 months ago. Great to be able to use for rat/gopher control around the place...less noise than a pellet gun with standard loads. Once again, thanks for all the info. Great resource here.