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Hunting & Fishing .308 v. Elk ?

High Binder

Resident Tribologist
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2008
495
24
Occupied Colorado
So what's the deal here. I run my dopes and see that I am still supersonic at 1100yrds so that's point blank .44 mag Lb force past 1100yrds. Now provided that info why is it that everybody I talk to says I'm going to need a 300wm or the like for elk or other similar sized game? I get that a heavier bullet has higher inertia but wouldn't the real key be placement?

FYI. I'm not talking about shooting elk at 1100 yds I'm just wondering why people are so down on .308s for elk at any range...
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I figure they are down on it because they cant always put the bullet where it belongs and figure that with a bigger gun they have a larger margin of error.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I wouldn't hesitate to use a 308 on an elk. I'll be using a 260 this year. Shot placement is most important.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWILLIAMS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figure they are down on it because they cant always put the bullet where it belongs and figure that with a bigger gun they have a larger margin of error. </div></div>
Most everyone I have met who make the same stupid claim have one thing in common, they think a five inch group is worth bragging about. "If I can hit a paper plate at 100 yards I have a sniper rifle" quoted by a dumb shit. .308 has plenty of knockdown with the right shot. If you send your bullets where you want then I don't see anything wrong with hunting with it for any size game.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

Placement is the most important thing. If you fail that a good bullet might help create a long enough wound channel to cause enough injury to kill or slow it down enough you can send in some follow up rounds.

A gut shot elk is a gut shot elk whether you did it with a .308 or .378. I've seen several and not one of them wound up in the back of the truck no matter what it was shot in the guts with.

That said I've killed elk with a .308, no big deal, 165gr Partitions in the boiler room. I wouldn't shoot one at 1,100 yards with a .308 though, especially with a Partfailition.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

There not armor plated yet. Your GTG : ) I used a .264 Win Mag. The two guys fom camp rode me about my too small of a caliber - both shot repeatidly at one a 600 yards - then ran around the mountain to shoot it at 100 yards - yep the 300WM and 300UM made a great crack while it wizzed by that Elk : )

I later took mine a 645. Shot placement and pracitice.

JamieD
Wolf Precision
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

10-4 guys, thanks for the reality check. I figured it was simple lack of skill on the nay-sayers part so thanks guys!!!!
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> simple lack of skill on the nay-sayers part</div></div>

exactly!
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

IMG_2347.jpg


Here is the exit hole on a red stag I shot just a few days ago with my .308 and a 155gr Lapua scenar. He was 208 meters, standing broadside. I would guess a stag is about the size of a raghorn bull elk....about 450 to 500 pounds.

Confidence......build it. Then take it to the field with you. Good things will happen.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

cbm, Yes....its as good or better than any elk I've ever eaten....really, really good!!
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

.308 will do fine. The only reason mine doesn't get taken to hunt elk is that my .375 H&H weighs half as much.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....Confidence......build it. Then take it to the field with you. Good things will happen. </div></div>

Very true, works in things other than shooting as well.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

FYI. I'm not talking about shooting elk at 1100 yds I'm just wondering why people are so down on .308s for elk at any range


Here is the reason...... This website deals with a level of shooter that does not exsist in the general hunting group.

The average guy is able to shoot a paper plate" somewhere" at 100 yards and it gets worse from there. Many of these same folks realize that they are better off to shoot an elk through the front shoulders as they A) They have a better chance of hitting it and B) if they are hunting on public ground they don't want the elk to run and cross a road, field, park, meadow ETC ETC. So.. They try and break them down by taking out the wings. This is why so many people believe that a .308 is not enough gun. I fall in this camp of people as well.

I don't care how many elk Jack oconner shot with a .270 I don't think it's an elk round either.

Two things are needed in order for either of those rounds to be effective. restraint is number 1 and number 2 is skill.

If you posess the above mentioned traits a .270 and a .308 are fine choices for Elk. If you are going to shoot them at 500 yards through the shoulders then a get a .300 winmag or a .338 winchester mag or my personal favorite a .375HH. I used mine to kill 7 or 8 bulls over the years.

This year i will be shooting a .260 remington with Hornady 140 interlock's or maybe Nosler partitions. I will exercise restraint as to distance and I will use skill to place my shots properly at modertate ranges or I will not shoot!

That is the diffrence as I see it. The ability to pass up a chance at an animal that could be cleanly killed when shot through the shoulders with a larger caliber. Any cartridge will work up to an including a .22 long rifle when you shoot the animal in the burr of the ear. Reality ,is that shot seldom presents itself in Western public hunting and as such, many people use larger calibers. I have been there, done that, got the Tee-shirt and followed up on the messes of others who should have used restraint and did not. Trust me.. The average guy is better off with a little more gun since I already know that becoming a better shot is something most guys are just not devoted to doing. Jeff

This is the reality as it applys to the .308. A fine choice in the right hands and not so good a choice as a general rule.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I agree with your views on both the general hunting population and the skill/restraint discussion. That said, I find myself part of the general hunting pop. and I shoot a .308, and have taken many big game animals well beyond 500 yds, including Elk. Like i said, I agree with your theories, and would not suggest it to others, but I think the .308 has plenty-poop for Elk. as long as your not taking 1100 yds shots, as you said.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I shoot deer and feral hogs with a 270win, with no problems. My cousin, when he goes out west for elk, he uses the same 270win to hunt elk with, that he hunts with deer. He just moves up from 130 grain to 140, and gets within 300 yards.

So If a 270 will do the job, I'm sure a 308 is plenty sufficient given good shot placement and appropriate range.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

and gets within 300 yards.

So If a 270 will do the job, I'm sure a 308 is plenty sufficient given good shot placement and appropriate range.


This is what is required. Restraint as to range and shot placement. a 308 will not shoot through both front shoulders of an elk at 500 yards. I have seen proof of that first hand on several occasions. At 300 yards a 270 or a 308 still have enough poop to break both front shoulders as well as the accuracy to cleanly shoot behind the shoulders into the vitals.

If a guy would limit his range to 300 or less I think both choices are excellent as neither has horrible recoil and as such many people can shoot them with more accuracy then harder recoiling guns.

I have not seen that restraint in over 25 plus years of public hunting elk in Oregon, wWshington and Idaho. Jeff
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

Its a good thing we didn't have all the Gun Shows and Hunting Rags telling us we couldn't kill an Elk with some Uber-Magnum rifle when I was starting to hunt . We shot them with 30-30's and open sights and they frigging died . We thought my cousin was cool because he had a bolt action 25-06 with a Weaver K4 scope mounted on it and he killed an Elk every frigging year with it . The only thing I can figure is that we must have been too stupid to know better so the laws of physics didn't apply to us
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Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I think superx was just saying a .308 is'nt enough gun at longer ranges, it's clear that it is more than enough gun for short range (300 or less), theres no need to drive that home, its the longer shots that need be discussed here.Op was about being down on .308 for elk.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwanajcj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is one taken with a .308, rifle in foreground

LAR8-15.jpg
</div></div>

Nice rack! What range? Do you ever get questioned about capacity of your AR-10?
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwanajcj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is one taken with a .308, rifle in foreground

LAR8-15.jpg
</div></div>
Nice lookin bull......SmokeRolls
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

That Elk was taken in Texas, it was less than 150 yds. The .308 is a great round but not my top pick for a shot at over 300 yds. I would definitely step up to a magnum round.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

Coming from my limited perspective, I had the same worries when I took my first elk with a .308 after taking them with my .338WM for years.

.308 works on elk, period.

If there are folks saying you absolutely need a magnum for elk, they're trying to sell you something.

As others have mentioned, with the correct bullet choice and practice, don't doubt the .308's ability on elk, it'll bring them down.

As usual, the limiting factor is the user's ability to maximize the tool's effectiveness. The .308 is much softer shooting than a .300 or .338 WM (for example). I've found the short action to be much easier in follow up shots ('cuz I've needed them). I've actually hunted with a LR-308 carbine, which was pretty neat (and something I couldn't do with a Mag cartridge).

So there are advantages, but don't let people get you down on the .308, it'll work on elk just fine, as others have posted harvested pics of their animals here as proof.

Good luck.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwanajcj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That Elk was taken in Texas, it was less than 150 yds. The .308 is a great round but not my top pick for a shot at over 300 yds. I would definitely step up to a magnum round. </div></div>

From 150 yds it could of been taken with less than a .308, I've shot them with a 25-06 from that range.

a heavy bullet from a .308 will work, probably farther than we are willing to shoot, its up to every individual to draw that line in his head. for some its 300, for others its 1000, for me I'd call it about 700, with a .308.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

IMO, barrel length, cartridge, and load are all compromises. Being able to place a bullet properly constructed for the animal in an effective place on the animal are high in priority. A bullet in .308 designed for thin skinned light boned deer is not going to work as well on elk through the shoulders as a 308 bullet designed for a heavier larger boned animal. It is great the bullets that are available these days. I say that, having shot my first deer with a 30-30 150 gr flat nosed bullet over fifty years ago.

And, knowing the anatomy of your target, i.e., where the heart and lungs are located inside the body help in knowing where to place the shot. And where they are located with the animal upright on its four legs as opposed to with the animal on it's side on the ground or hung up for cleaning.

I personally like to knock them down so that I don't have to track them. So, I usually try to go through the shoulders on Texas Hill Country deer with my 308 with 150 grain Sierra soft point boat tails. An Axis deer (more plentiful than we like) can go 125 pounds field dressed. A shot on a broadside deer through the lungs will result in a dead deer, but one which may run some distance. That's how I got my first deer with the 30-30. Although, I am going to start shooting more carefully and see what I can learn. For better or worse.

I hadn't thought about the utility in knocking down an elk in a public hunting situation until mentioned above. I can just see someone slipping a bullet into the boiler room with an angling entry behind the shoulder. Elk runs into the trees, followed by a boom from a 338 Mag. And the first hunter comes up to find the second hunter exulting over his trophy. Whose trophy? Beats me.

I am a believer in the idea of shooting for a specific square inch on the animal's exterior as opposed to center mass. But, I expect that is the orientation of most of the people on here.

IMO and FWIW and YMMV.
smile.gif
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

It can't be done... Especially with a match bullet ...

Much less at a distance more than 50 yards...

It just cant...
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

thanks to everyone that posted the pics
laugh.gif
just to show my buddy that it can be done
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i just want to rub it in there face...... hahahahahahaha i live in Cali and right now i can afford to go hunt elk out of state and never really knew anyone that shot an elk with .308

i hate this debate though but to me i know i can do my part and if the rifle is good then shot placment is all good for me
laugh.gif
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

2007063.jpg


447 meters with a .308 shooting 155gr Lapua Scenar...maybe Montana bull elk are just easy to kill.....laffin!!

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Another one .308'ed at quite a bit farther than the one above with the same bullet....make a good shot, bring your knive's, dead is dead.

NZtrip2010016.jpg


155 scenar didnt bounce off of this red stag at 208 meters either.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">maybe Montana bull elk are just easy to kill</div></div>

No elk is easy to kill, or is there a better place to shoot them then in the lungs and heart? Maybe i'm doing something wrong.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NZtrip2010016.jpg
</div></div>

Thats a awesome stag! Congrats.



 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

that red stag is a beauty - anymore pics

( a arrow will kill an elk, same arrow may or may not pass through a bale of hay at 20 yards, an 7.62 x 39 will sure as hell will pass through a hay bale = SHOT PLACEMENT IS A HUGE FACTOR)
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkhuntinguide</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It can't be done... Especially with a match bullet ...

Much less at a distance more than 50 yards...

It just cant... </div></div>

Crickets....lol......
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

One of my favorite quotes is that "alot of uninformed Swedish elk hunters shoot them with the 6.5x55. The elk, being equally uninformed, promply die." This would actually be what we would call moose. About the size of our elk. Shoot them, just do not let them see the ammo headstamp. They will likely think it was a 30-06 and be DRT.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

Since we're talking about Scandinavia:

308 is the dominant caliber in Finnish moose hunting. 30-06 would be next, after that I'm not sure. I'd say that currently 7.62x54R is holding third place.

After that, I'm not sure. There's 6.5x55, 300WM and other 30cal mags, 338WM, occasional 458WM. 45-70 and 9.3x62 have boomed in popularity last 10-15 years, so they may be holding fourth and fifth place.

Previously calibers based on 7.62x54R were quite popular, like 8.2x53R and 9.3x53R (53R is the Finnish marking for 54R). Also 9.3x74R has some success, mostly in Valmet over-under double rifles (barrels interchangable with Valmet shotgun).
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

I love going to my local range the weekend before hunting season and seeing all the local yahoo's shooting their super whiz bang ultra magnums they have to hunt Whitetail deer. In general they shoot about 2 or 3 shots and call it a day because its all their shoulder can handle. Meanwhile they can barely hold those 3 shots within a paper plate off a solid bench at 100 yards let alone hold them to that group in a hunting scenario. I suppose the general line of thinking is "If the bullet is big enough and fast enough it doesn't matter where you hit them" My point being is that it doesn't take a 50 bmg to bring down a critter, just an accurate shot.

Give me a hunter with a .243 Win that has put hundreds or thousands of rounds down the tube over someone that has the latest Super mag with 5 rounds down the tube.
Personally I'd feel comfortable hunting any North American game with the exception of maybe grizzlys at close range with my 308. I have never hunted Elk myself but I know plenty of people take elk every year with calibers as small as 6mm.
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bucksquirelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I love going to my local range the weekend before hunting season and seeing all the local yahoo's shooting their super whiz bang ultra magnums they have to hunt Whitetail deer. In general they shoot about 2 or 3 shots and call it a day because its all their shoulder can handle. Meanwhile they can barely hold those 3 shots within a paper plate off a solid bench at 100 yards let alone hold them to that group in a hunting scenario. I suppose the general line of thinking is "If the bullet is big enough and fast enough it doesn't matter where you hit them" My point being is that it doesn't take a 50 bmg to bring down a critter, just an accurate shot.

Give me a hunter with a .243 Win that has put hundreds or thousands of rounds down the tube over someone that has the latest Super mag with 5 rounds down the tube.
Personally I'd feel comfortable hunting any North American game with the exception of maybe grizzlys at close range with my 308. I have never hunted Elk myself but I know plenty of people take elk every year with calibers as small as 6mm.
</div></div>


well spoken ^^^
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

Look; folks take deer with .22LR's, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a great idea.

I've got this concept in the back of my mind that when a hunter embarks on taking game, that hunter has a responsibility toward that game to effect its dispatch in a manner which minimizes that animal's suffering, as well as the likelihood that it may escape with a crippling and/or excruciating injury. I've encountered such animals, and it's enough to make one's blood boil.

If there's any reasonable doubt about that, consider using more gun.

It is for this specific reason that I prefer to use a .30-'06 on North American Big Game. IMHO, there is no doubt that for all but the largest and most dangerous game, it's enough gun. But that does not in any way absolve me from using that firearm responsibly. Adequate shot placement is still the most important factor.

I own five rifles that use the .30'06 or another chambering (.280 Rem) based on that parent case. I can only shoot one rifle at a time; but members of my family also hunt, and now that centerfire rifles are permitted locally for the taking of deer, very often they are doing it with one of my rifles. I'm glad I can provide the capability, and do it in what I consider to be a more responsible manner.

Greg
 
Re: .308 v. Elk ?

do it ! the 308 will work well as long as you do your part . i'll be taking my 260 this year . bugs a## hole to 300 grapefruit to 1000. energy ..... well thats gonna stop me at about 700 but it's still more than i'll need.