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308 win for 1 mile shot

Exactly every 14-15 ft you go into another wind gradient which increases the speed from the ground readings.
You can dope the wind at target, shooter, mid range, etc, but that is all ground level, as you increase above the line of sight the velocity goes up.

Higher up, less resistance from the ground, more velocity to contend with. Equals less predictability from shot to shot.
 
If it will make it more entertaining, I will stand at 1 mile and be your target. If you hit me with a .308, Warren Buffet will give you a billion dollars.

Sounds like a fun experiment but the downside is even if you did get a hit or two, it would be sheer luck. Sounds like you need a 338 Lapua!

Wow that's brave or ...

After shooting ELR with my toys designed for a bit more reach, I've played with my .308 on numerous occasions just for fun. Of course, I did so occasionally because the environments were perfect.

It is not the right choice or even close, I get that. And even with 25mils dialed, rat pulled out to get another 20mils (with 175's at 1,000 AD), aiming for 2,000 for me, needs a spot above the target I can hold the bottom of the rat. (Despite the calculators saying my system has enough) .. But after a couple of Kentucky windage adjustments, I still would not to be riding high saddle. A famous English commander made that deadly mistake in the ball and musket days.. Some crazy talented squirrel hunting American made him and the saying famous, but he dead.

Is a .308 the correct round? No. Can it get out there and still be of danger to a fragile skinned human- yep.. I am not saying the probability of a first round hit is high, just to high for me to stake my life on it.


Jt

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
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I know the 308 isn't a practical one-mile round, even with the best bullets.

I just can't resist flinging a couple or three out there, when I shoot, because the opportunity is right in front of me.
 
I know the 308 isn't a practical one-mile round, even with the best bullets.

I just can't resist flinging a couple or three out there, when I shoot, because the opportunity is right in front of me.

I don't blame you one bit. If I had a mile of usable shooting range in front of me, I'd be flinging 9mm rounds out there! lol
 
A box of 22 LR claims that it is dangerous to 1.5 miles.
 
A Toyota Tundra pickup truck pulled the space shuttle a few hundred yards over a freeway bridge, because the bridge couldn't support the combined weight of the normal shuttle towing vehicles and the shuttle.
Did the pickup truck do the required job, as narrowly defined by the weight restrictions and limited distance? Yes.
Was the pickup truck the optimal vehicle for the job? Hell no.
Was the pickup truck used for any other purpose during the remaining "normal" towing process? Hell no.

The .308 Win chambering will launch a bullet to a mile, and beyond. No questions about that.
Is it the optimal chambering for the distance? Hell no.

To me it makes sense to launch one $5 round (.338LM & others) that actually has the potential of reasonable precision at a mile, than to lob five $1 rounds (.308Win) into the general vicinity of the target with the hope that one round might get lucky.
 
LOWLIGHT

I would say that you may be getting a little bit harsh on the boys?? Just for arguments sake, When I done a lot of 22 Winchester shooting, I was about 10 years old and was sternly reminded
that my little 22 could kill my Brother, Sister or any body else that happened to be there when that bullet came down about a mile away...
It was also, printed on the cartrige box.. Remember, that 223, is a 22 first and I have witnessed a lot of damage from one of them while on "Uncle Sam's" field trips. I HATE the AR and feel
abject hatered for the whols AR platform!!
 
I'm dredging up my own Necropost because I though it would be fun to revisit the 308 at a mile six and a half years later.

This past year I did manage to get consecutive hits on an IPSC at 1715yds (w/magnetospeed t1000 target indicator). I don't remember how many, but it was more than 2 but less than 5. hic28 can vouch for me. Rifle was a GAP built 22" bartlein, ammo was lapua small primer brass, 175rdf's, and 43.5gr of varget. Took about 20 shots to walk it in. Drop was 98moa with 13-15moa dialed for left wind. (yes I'm still moa-tarded for some reason)

I shot this while messing around after testing loads with my 7 SAUM. If I had remembered this post I would have taken it more seriously and pushed the target back further. I might revisit this again with an FTR gun. We had light consistent winds and good visibility. Was this practical? hell no; but was it fun - definitely. AB Analytics gives you a shot simulation like this:

1585791737387.png


Even so, if this was my one rifle and loading, I could get more consistent at this range, maybe get impacts within 5 shots rather than 20, but it would still not be a practical shot to take with my setup for any reason but fun.

Its pretty funny and embarrassing to see where I was at when I first posted this (TIBOREX references!). Its been a very fun but expensive journey since then. Technology has come a long way - for example, the 308win Josh with PVA shoots has better ballistics that my 300 norma mag (15 mins in). The chambering you use (within reason) seems to be less important than what bullet you use these days. It would be really interesting to see the ballistics on heavy 30 cal solids in Sig Fury brass.

This June I am looking forward to attending my 4th NF ELR Steel Challenge, but not with my 308.
 
It's not an 800 yard cartridge, it's more like an 800m one,

but today, we have better equipment so it's about picking the right tool for the job. A 308 at 1000 yards is silly, it turns a rifle into a really bad 9mm at 100 yards. So why bother, because we are arrogant and we can, but it's carnival shot.

Herewith the right tools, in this case, Warner Tool 180s out of my 20" 308 AI AX,


 
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I'm running 208 ELD-M's over 45gr RL17 @ 3.043 COAL in my 700 5R 24". Groups ~0.5"@100. On a still day, I'm 80+% out to 1000, but introduce wind, and 800 starts to get hairy. However, I can definitely say that my groups @ 600 in wind are tighter than my groups running my 178 ELD-M load, which groups ~1/4" or less @ 100. So, BC beats outright accuracy for these 2 loads at longer range with wind.
 
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Lol
I remember this thread.
I’ve since shot a a mile plus numerous times but back then it was a giant goal.


Super impressive. I've been able to get to 1250 with M24 M118LR @1moa. I would like to have had a further range to try. Maybe someday, and thanks for the necro-update.
Lots of places to shoot further in our area.
Maybe we can get together after the plague subsides.
 
A 308 at 1000 yards is silly, it turns a rifle into a really bad 9mm at 100 yards. So why bother, because we are arrogant and we can, but it's carnival shot.

I'm fairly sure @sstacllc has used a similar 308 175 RDF load as mine to proof the NF ELR Steel Challenge targets. Not sure what his hit ratio was but I don't think he wasted a lot of ammo doing it.

For sure the energy is weak, but out to 1200yds - especially in higher elevation - I don't think its unreasonable to expect a decent hit ratio on 2moa targets.
 
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What was the hit ratio on that 2'x3' plate @ 1500ish during the 2018 King Of 2 Miles?
 
I've got a 12" round for my "Big" steel, then 6" down to 2". Planning on stretching the 208 ELD-M load on Sat, barring rain. I shoot down a valley, at hilltops that peak every 500 yards or so. Wish me luck @ ~1500!
 
198gr Warner Flatline loaded long makes mile very feasible with a 308. Last time was in MT back in October, I was banging away at 1 mile from STANDING on a RRS tripod.
My 308 is on a long action, with a 8.7 twist barrel, and 48.0gr 2000MR gets the 198gr going at 2775fps (in 60*F). 198gr Flatline G7 = 0.419ish.
 
198gr Warner Flatline loaded long makes mile very feasible with a 308. Last time was in MT back in October, I was banging away at 1 mile from STANDING on a RRS tripod.
My 308 is on a long action, with a 8.7 twist barrel, and 48.0gr 2000MR gets the 198gr going at 2775fps (in 60*F). 198gr Flatline G7 = 0.419ish.
I have that thread you started bookmarked, I go back from time to time and reread. Good stuff.
 
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I'm fairly sure @sstacllc has used a similar 308 175 RDF load as mine to proof the NF ELR Steel Challenge targets. Not sure what his hit ratio was but I don't think he wasted a lot of ammo doing it.

For sure the energy is weak, but out to 1200yds - especially in higher elevation - I don't think its unreasonable to expect a decent hit ratio on 2moa targets.
At 12,000 DA the 175 RDF Load I was shooting out at the Q Creek was still super sonic at 1600. The other bullet I have worked with on the 308 was the 208 ELDM, 210 RDFs and 215 bergers. With an XM action I could magazine feed rounds at 3.25" and could get those bullet going 2650. At those speed the 308 with that bullet has less wind than a 6.5 at extended ranges.
 
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At 12,000 DA the 175 RDF Load I was shooting out at the Q Creek was still super sonic at 1600. The other bullet I have worked with on the 308 was the 208 ELDM, 210 RDFs and 215 bergers. With an XM action I could magazine feed rounds at 3.25" and could get those bullet going 2650. At those speed the 308 with that bullet has less wind than a 6.5 at extended ranges.
At that DA a red Ryder could probably be viable at a mile.
 
I couldn't get to 1500 today. Wind gave me 4 hits out of 15 at ~925 yds. Vertical was spot on, but horizontal was approx 3ft depending on wind. My come up at that range was 6.95 MRads, which means I'm @ 2750ish FPS on the 208? Seems fast, even with 45 grains RL17. I need to buy a chrono... Question, if my barrel (11.25 twist) wasn't stabilizing the 208's effectively, shouldn't I have seen it in the vertical as well as the horizontal? I'm tentatively pleased, but want to get out to range when wind is nil or at least constant. Last time in the same spot, I could score multiple hits in a row with my 178 ELD-M load. Have to believe this one shoots inside that, unless stability is becoming a factor.
 
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I couldn't get to 1500 today. Wind gave me 4 hits out of 15 at ~925 yds. Vertical was spot on, but horizontal was approx 3ft depending on wind. My come up at that range was 6.95 MRads, which means I'm @ 2750ish FPS on the 208? Seems fast, even with 45 grains RL17. I need to buy a chrono... Question, if my barrel (11.25 twist) wasn't stabilizing the 208's effectively, shouldn't I have seen it in the vertical as well as the horizontal? I'm tentatively pleased, but want to get out to range when wind is nil or at least constant. Last time in the same spot, I could score multiple hits in a row with my 178 ELD-M load. Have to believe this one shoots inside that, unless stability is becoming a factor.

@MontanaMarine did a lot of work with 208s in a 12 twist.


I had no issues stabilizing 208s in my 11.25 308.
 
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^Thanks! Also, a correction: I'm not shooting @ 2750 fps - shooting down into a valley, and there is an elevation change in my favor. Perhaps 100 feet or more, so my come up is less than it would be on flat ground.
 
Here in the UK there is a discipline called Match Rifle. The rules are .308W only, scopes allowed with a rest but no back bags and the rifle cant touch the rest - it lays on the hand which is supported by the rest. A bit like sling shooting but with a rest instead of a sling - although some shooters use both. The target is a 24in bull with 14.4in x ring and the ranges shot are generally 1000, 1100 and 1200 yards. Where ranges permit upto 1500 yards. Course of fire generally 2 sighters and 15 or 20 to count. So max score 75.15. Plenty of possible at 1200 have been recorded with say 13x - although a good score at 1200 considered 2 be perhaps iro 73 with 10x or so, dependent on the conditions. Load wise, 215 Bergers are popular, mollied, seated long with circa 49 grains Reloder 17 or similar. Velocities with 215 grainers (32 or 34 in bores, 9 or 10 twist) run north of 2700 fps and many iro 2750fps. The 200.20x Bergers regularly pushed 2800fps out of suitably chambered rifles. Case life with Lapua cases about 5 before the pockets loosen. That's with about 50 to 100 thou of bullet in the case neck, mollied, full .308 bore (not tight palma type bore) and 32 to 34 in barrel. I would think such loads would make it to 1800 yards though at Sea Level, +15 Deg C and standard pressure, they fall through sonic at 1500 yards or so and are trans sonic 1300 or so but comfortably above M1.2 at 1200. All the above just for interest sake from the UK.
 
Make sure you have a lot of adjustment in your scope. I got to 1600 with a 30-06 using the 208 Amax at 1000 feet above sea level before I ran out on scope adjustment.
 
Here in the UK there is a discipline called Match Rifle. The rules are .308W only, scopes allowed with a rest but no back bags and the rifle cant touch the rest - it lays on the hand which is supported by the rest. A bit like sling shooting but with a rest instead of a sling - although some shooters use both. The target is a 24in bull with 14.4in x ring and the ranges shot are generally 1000, 1100 and 1200 yards. Where ranges permit upto 1500 yards. Course of fire generally 2 sighters and 15 or 20 to count. So max score 75.15. Plenty of possible at 1200 have been recorded with say 13x - although a good score at 1200 considered 2 be perhaps iro 73 with 10x or so, dependent on the conditions. Load wise, 215 Bergers are popular, mollied, seated long with circa 49 grains Reloder 17 or similar. Velocities with 215 grainers (32 or 34 in bores, 9 or 10 twist) run north of 2700 fps and many iro 2750fps. The 200.20x Bergers regularly pushed 2800fps out of suitably chambered rifles. Case life with Lapua cases about 5 before the pockets loosen. That's with about 50 to 100 thou of bullet in the case neck, mollied, full .308 bore (not tight palma type bore) and 32 to 34 in barrel. I would think such loads would make it to 1800 yards though at Sea Level, +15 Deg C and standard pressure, they fall through sonic at 1500 yards or so and are trans sonic 1300 or so but comfortably above M1.2 at 1200. All the above just for interest sake from the UK.
Exactly, Maximizing the potential of the cartrdige
 
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Made it out again today - interesting - 43 grains N150 with a 175 TMK had the same drop at 940 yds as the 208 ELD-M running 45 grains RL-17. 44.5 grains N540 with a 178 ELD-M was .4 mils less drop. Wind performance was as expected - 208 ELD-M >> 178 ELD-M > 175 TMK.
 
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I just want to do it for fun too. As I've posted before they did it with 45/70 trapdoors (large targets)& regularly hit steel at 1000 yds with iron sighted 45/70s so I think it's doable with a 308.
Enjoy this thread. As for 45/70 shooting 1K yards this is regularly done in competition. I have completed many times at 800, 900 and 1K with one. Those big 500 plus grain bullets do a nice job on the LR target. The problem is keeping track of the wind. Yes with iron sights but nice MVA vernier sights.
 


And he recently hit the mile with same rig.


Lame. 0 wind, and he's shooting approx ~3ft group, just rolling the dice until he gets a 7. If I can't make 5 hits in a row, I find it pointless. Low wind for me yesterday, and 308 could put 5 in a row on the 6" steel at 940 yds. Also put 5 in a row on 12" steel with my 223 and a 75 eld-m at same range. Got 2 in a row on 6" with the 223 followed by a miss.

Guess I'm finding the wind/no wind limits of my rifles/loads/marskmanship with my constraints. If I can't put 5 in a row on the 12" steel, I'm too far. If I can, I'll try shooting smaller targets rather than getting further away. Introducing chance beyond the limits of the cartridge doesn't make a better marksman. It just wastes ammo and leads to confirmation bias when the improbable roll of the dice occurs - like cheering a lottery win.
 
Here's some 1800 yard shots with the 215 Berger out of a 1/12 twist 308. MV around 2600 fps.

Warning, video quality is poor. Kind of painful to watch, but thankfully not very long...….grin




This is the rifle. Rem 700 vamint 308 LH, cut to 22". McMillan A5 stock. Badger Ord bottom metal, brake, 45 moa rail, rings, bolt knob. Timney trigger. SWFA 12X MQuad scope.

SwDxFT3.jpg







This is the target. Different rifle though, I was carrying this 223 the day I hiked out to set up this target.

8SLwMHU.jpg
 
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This is what my ballistic table looks like. At 1800 yards, the 215 Berger is retaining 1062 fps, 538 ft-lbs.

The table suggests 23.2 mils, but I was at 22.8 mils. Granted the erector on my scope hasn't been tested for correctness.

As Frank says, there are better tools...….I just don't happen to have any of those.....grin. Well my heavy 30-06 is incrementally better, but not really a game-changer. For me it's all about enjoying what I do have.

whVlOFa.jpg
 
What's the definition of fun?
I enjoy playing around with my 308. I don't have a range to shoot long range at so we might just pick a hillside to shoot at rocks. I definitely don't take stuff as seriously as some.
 
What's the definition of fun?
I enjoy playing around with my 308. I don't have a range to shoot long range at so we might just pick a hillside to shoot at rocks. I definitely don't take stuff as seriously as some.
I personally enjoy pushing cartridges further than they’re commonly thought of be comfortable at.

Its kinda cool when you see some of the wonky stuff that happens or when they just straight kick ass.

My 308 and short barrel 6.5cm friends are always wanting closer targets and I'm always pushing them further.

At some point I’d like to get a 308 barrel and single load 185’s pushed hard and lob some shots.
 
My son and I did the 308WIN at a mile thing last month. Were the super 6s getting out there? Yes. They were much more successful than we were. We were the only 308 on the line that day. We got on the target, but not like the 6CM and 6.5CMs were. My elevation correction was 75 MOA and holding up another 10 mils. My wind correction that day varied from holding L 2 to 5 mils.
We were shooting 175 SMK @ 2760. This is as hard as I can push that barrel. This particular rifle was built by George Gardner back in the day right after he got his first shop and moved out of the back of Denny's in KC. Rem700, McMA4, Rock barrel measuring 23" from the front of the recoil lug, Badger bottom metal, NF 40 MOA base, Leupold 6.5x20 Premier installed GenII reticle in even older LOD rings.

My son connected on his 3rd shot.

Was it a waste of ammo?...Nah (kind of subjective, waste to me may or may not be waste to you...and that is fine). I can sling as many rounds down there as my wallet and patience allow.
Are there calibers more suited to this...yes.
Was it fun?....Hell yes.
That is all it was...fun.

Main take away...I can remember after learning enough to connect reliably at 1k, 500 felt much less intimidating. I can't connect reliably at a mile with my 308 (and frankly, don't expect to be able to), but now the 1k line feels like a chip shot. So it did help inspire some confidence at the longer distances typically/traditionally viewed as practical limits for 308.

It was a nice day on the range with my son. No more, no less.
 
So... I got another 308, full custom, tight neck, 28" lilja, chambered for 168/175's. At the lands, my coal for the 208 ELD-M's is 2.99. That puts the bottom of the bullet into the powder column - by almost the entire tapered portion. Given the ballistic advantage of the 208's is ~2 feet @ 1000 yards, I really want to try this projectile. Should I try jamming it, and how far can I safely jam, or should I try to find a load with the bullet protruding into the column? Uncharted territory for me. Rifle shoots 00's and .1's with the 168's and 175's, so I don't want to re-chamber.
 
As a follow up to a previous mile shoot report (post #143 above), we did it again over the weekend. Same 308 rifle. The wind ate our lunch. Not. one. single. hit. at the mile - we got skunked. Some days are better than others.

The super 6s and the 3xx mags won the day.

The bright spot was my daughter connecting with a first round hit at 1000. That was the best part of the day. ;)
 
I want to get out to a mile with my M24r. Looking for 3-5 consecutive hits on an IPSC sized target. I have the optics problem solved (thanks nightforce), but there looks to be 2 methods for getting out to 1 mile accurately: the first would be a transonically stable bullet like a 185 Juggernaut, and dealing with massive wind drift. The other is trying to launch a 230 berger at 2500+. I'm not sure which path I should start down. Is a 208 amax the middle road? Advice welcome.

I've shot the factory Federal 185 Juggernauts a mile. I was good for 2 out of 5 hits with my 24" barrel bolt gun. So, as long as you have the scope turret elevation, you can do it. Just make sure you pick a calm day LOL! With something like the 230 Berger, I would be concerned that my rifling rate of twist wouldn't like it.
 
A few people die every year from stray bullets miles away, especially on 4th of july.
When I was a kid, we lived a few years in the Houston area, and I worked on a roofing crew. I used to find all kinds of bullets - pistol and rifle. Some stuck into the shingles, some struck the roof and rolled into the gutters. But, none of them as I recall hit hard enough to deform the bullet. Still, I bet that would hurt.
 
don't see why you could not shoot a mile with a 308 not sure about the accuracy you would end up with but if others can do you so can you .

I believe in you lol.