Thank you! quickly ad can only
be used on a computer right, gotta buy the program? I know I have to get a Magnetospeed soon.
be used on a computer right, gotta buy the program? I know I have to get a Magnetospeed soon.
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
. Even with the crunching powder, the loads shot very well. 2540 av, es was 31 and sd’s was 16. Just about the best I’ve ever got out of .308. Accuracy was exceptional. Thanks for the info guys.
Yes.
And it's not downloadable from the website (except for a Demo version that one can get a feel for how it works, but not useful otherwise). It has typically come on a CD-ROM, but maybe these days they can make other accommodations . .. ???
Yes.
It's not particularly "cheap", but I find it well worth it when you account for the savings one can get in load development supplies used.
Here's a link: https://www.neconos.com/details3.htm
Hi guys, anyone of you have experience with the Lapua 175 gr Scenar L with Varget, CCI BR2 and Federal brass?
What was your most accurate load?
What was your most accurate load?
Where do most of y’all start for a COAL? Going to try 155 ELDMs today since I’ve been having trouble seating my 155 TMKs in my Foster seating die.
I figure 2.800” and go from there? I do not have one of those Hornady measuring tools.
I figure 2.800” and go from there? I do not have one of those Hornady measuring tools.
It depends what bullet you are using, but for 155's in general, I would load to mag length.
You don't need the Hornady tool. This works a lot better for finding max COAL:
Anyone have load data for the following:
150gr Berger Target (or similar 150-155gr).
~2.825" COAL.
PP 2000MR
Full length sized Lapua large primer brass.
24in DPMS AR10 with Rock Creek barrel 1:11 barrel.
Curious what the velocity might look like from that combo, thinking about trying the lighter 150-155gr's with 2000MR.
150gr Berger Target (or similar 150-155gr).
~2.825" COAL.
PP 2000MR
Full length sized Lapua large primer brass.
24in DPMS AR10 with Rock Creek barrel 1:11 barrel.
Curious what the velocity might look like from that combo, thinking about trying the lighter 150-155gr's with 2000MR.
Hey guys, from Australia.
I have a Remington Model 700 PCR
24" Barrel, 1 in 10" Twist 5R
Still need to find out and measure what my maximum C.O.L. can be.
Looking to be loading up some fireformed cases with a few of the following rounds for testing.
BRASS: Currently have 200 Hornady fire formed cases. Might try Lapua Brass at some stage.
POWDER: RL-17
PRIMERS: CCI Large Rifle
BULLETS:
Sierra 200GR BTHP MatchKing
Hornady 220GR ELD-X
Hornady 225GR ELD-Match (Concerned that I need a faster twist rate.)
Sierra 230GR BTHP MatchKing (Concerned that I need a faster twist rate.)
Has anyone tried some of the Sierra bullets with the "27 caliber elongated ogive"? Was wondering how well it works.
Reason I am looking at ELD-X rounds is because the 178GR ELD-X factory rounds are giving me 1/2 MOA. So I am looking at the heavier rounds for my twist rate and also for the High BC and Sectional Density.
Was just wondering if I could please get some advice on the subject as I am new to reloading. Looking to load develope an accurate round to eventually walk out to 1000 Yards.
I have a Remington Model 700 PCR
24" Barrel, 1 in 10" Twist 5R
Still need to find out and measure what my maximum C.O.L. can be.
Looking to be loading up some fireformed cases with a few of the following rounds for testing.
BRASS: Currently have 200 Hornady fire formed cases. Might try Lapua Brass at some stage.
POWDER: RL-17
PRIMERS: CCI Large Rifle
BULLETS:
Sierra 200GR BTHP MatchKing
Hornady 220GR ELD-X
Hornady 225GR ELD-Match (Concerned that I need a faster twist rate.)
Sierra 230GR BTHP MatchKing (Concerned that I need a faster twist rate.)
Has anyone tried some of the Sierra bullets with the "27 caliber elongated ogive"? Was wondering how well it works.
Reason I am looking at ELD-X rounds is because the 178GR ELD-X factory rounds are giving me 1/2 MOA. So I am looking at the heavier rounds for my twist rate and also for the High BC and Sectional Density.
Was just wondering if I could please get some advice on the subject as I am new to reloading. Looking to load develope an accurate round to eventually walk out to 1000 Yards.
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JBM Ballistics calculator indicates your twist should be OK.
http://www.jbmballistics.com
If hunting is part of the package, I'd lean towards the ELD-X. If you're only hunting paper and steel, whatever shoots the tightest.
Depending on you're seating depth, it looks like in QuickLoad software that the MV for a 20" barrel you likely to be 2,800+. Fore example, with a COAL of 2.80 it's showing MV at 2807. BTW, it's also showing case being filled to 108.4% of capacity, yet the pressure is really not all to high (54,975 psi).
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Custom built .308 with a 28” 1:11.25 HV Bartlein, Stiller Tac 30 action in an AICS.
Load is 42.5 IMR 4064, Lapua brass, CCI BR2, 185 Berger Juggernaut at 2.212” to ogive (2.867” oal). 350 yards.
Load is 42.5 IMR 4064, Lapua brass, CCI BR2, 185 Berger Juggernaut at 2.212” to ogive (2.867” oal). 350 yards.
It is around 2.855 to 2.860”. My throat is VERY long in that particular rifle. I guess I was thinking about my 140 ELD M load in my 6.5 creedmor?? Don’t know what I was thinking honestly. Good call on that.
I loaded up some using 42.5 gr IMR 4064 for the first time to be fired in my new Krieger 24" barrel I installed on my RPR. Then I went out yesterday to see how they do and was very happy with the results as got a 5 round group measuring .326 MOA. After that I fired at a series of 1/2" dots (9 in total) and hit all but one at 100 yrds (wish I had taken a picture to share). I didn't chrono any as I didn't want to mount my Magnetospeed, so I guess I'll have to do that the next time out.
Info on cartridges:
175 SMK's seated at .020 off lands (COAL: 2.850); bearing surface length at .369 (yes, I sort by bearing surface length to get consistent seating depth
)2X fired Federal brass, neck sized, shoulder bumped .002, trimmed to 2.007, necks shaved to a uniform .0138, primer pockets uniformed to .013 and flash holes deburred.
QuickLoad app estimates MV to be around 2689 fps
Glass is a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 zeroed at 100 yds.
Thanks alot. I'm just under 2.80 at 2.7960. I figured around 2800 but then started thinking I was being optimistic. Makes sense because I was running 2750 the last few matches and most shots were high. Thanks again.
What app?
Ballistic AE
Anyone loading 168gr 308 with CFE223? If so I’d like to hear what loads worked best
Looks like your powder node is around 44.8. What did you decide to use to work up your seating depth?
I'm using 2.8" COAL. I haven't experimented yet with seating them out further since 44.8gr at the 2.8" has shot so well.
I was using 175 RDFs in my 26" 1:10 308. Had a few charges that produced under 0.3 MOA, but the current load is averaging 0.5 MOA ES of 19 (sample size was 50). I had problems with the 178 ELD-M as well for that barrel. Could not get anything under 0.75 MOA which had high ES's. Best ES's were 15-18 but could not get under MOA by adjusting seating depth. Ill be trying 195 ELD-Ms within the next 2 weeks. They seem promising in theory. Havent heard too much use in 308's, mainly 300WM.
Finally got out to the range today and it turned out to be a good trip. New rifle new magneto speed new brass and I think I've got a load! ?
Temp 81. Pressure 28.5 DA 3290 ELE 1978' Wind was 10-15 from 7 oclock
All shooting was prone of a concrete pad w/ Harris bi-pod and rear bag. With the Magneto speed mounted.
Bergara B14 HMR .308 20" 1:10 twist
Virgin Lapua brass
CCI BR2
44.1gr Varget
178gr ELDM
. 005 to the lands @ 2.835 COL
to feed reliably. Don't have my log in front of me but 2.213 BTO is stuck in my head.
HI 2716
LOW 2708
SD. 3
ES. 8
2708
2713
2716
2714
2711
No pressure signs and I had a shooter I trust look as well. Befor any one flames me I understand this load is over the Hornady book max and their was a very light crunch when seating. I'll get a drop tube befor I load up the next batch and see if that helps.
5 shot group was 1.02 outside to outside. -.308 = .71 moa. This puts the round count @ 130 on this rifle. And on an average day I'm capable of .6-.8 So this should work for me.
I've got another 25 rounds of virgin Lapua brass primed up ready to load , so I'll do those up @ 44.1 shoot 10 over the MS and 3 5rnd groups to verify. Over all no spontaneous rapid rifle disassembly all fingers and eyes intact and good #'s ... A good day!
Temp 81. Pressure 28.5 DA 3290 ELE 1978' Wind was 10-15 from 7 oclock
All shooting was prone of a concrete pad w/ Harris bi-pod and rear bag. With the Magneto speed mounted.
Bergara B14 HMR .308 20" 1:10 twist
Virgin Lapua brass
CCI BR2
44.1gr Varget
178gr ELDM
. 005 to the lands @ 2.835 COL
to feed reliably. Don't have my log in front of me but 2.213 BTO is stuck in my head.
HI 2716
LOW 2708
SD. 3
ES. 8
2708
2713
2716
2714
2711
No pressure signs and I had a shooter I trust look as well. Befor any one flames me I understand this load is over the Hornady book max and their was a very light crunch when seating. I'll get a drop tube befor I load up the next batch and see if that helps.
5 shot group was 1.02 outside to outside. -.308 = .71 moa. This puts the round count @ 130 on this rifle. And on an average day I'm capable of .6-.8 So this should work for me.
I've got another 25 rounds of virgin Lapua brass primed up ready to load , so I'll do those up @ 44.1 shoot 10 over the MS and 3 5rnd groups to verify. Over all no spontaneous rapid rifle disassembly all fingers and eyes intact and good #'s ... A good day!
Am still getting good results with 42.5 gr of IMR 4064. Yesterday I played with seating depth's running from .003 off at .003 increments to .015 off. None of them did as well or any better than being .003 off. The 42.5 grs gave me a 5 round group of .372". And with an average MV that I've measured with my MagnetoSpeed V3 of 2676 fps, I feel this is the 4064 load I'll be sticking with.
Though I have a jug of AR-Comp and ran a previous load that I developed for my old barrel, which was 39.6 grs set with the same specs, I tried it with this new barrel and got pretty good results (again) with it. 5 round group was at .263" and firing 10 rounds to get chrono numbers I got an ES of 26, an SD of 7.5. and the MV average was 2603 fps. These were loaded in full length sized Peterson brass. I tend to get better groupings with neck sized only brass than I do with FL, so I'm gong to see if that holds true with this load.
Decided to test a 10 year old can of Varget and used some Federal GM once fired cases...here’s the results at 200 yards
Could you provide us with these loads, please?
If you guys wanted to set a barrel and load up for Max velocity out of 168 ELD-M’s, what would be your reamer/powder/etc... choices?
ETA: would 2850 FPS be a realistic expectation from a 24” barrel?
I guess basically what I’m asking is would it be that easy to squeeze much more velocity out of a 168 by hand loading than this loaded ammo is getting?
ETA: would 2850 FPS be a realistic expectation from a 24” barrel?
I guess basically what I’m asking is would it be that easy to squeeze much more velocity out of a 168 by hand loading than this loaded ammo is getting?
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Loaded up 40 rounds yesterday with 43 grains of imr4064. Gun seems to like this load. The nosler brass on the other hand is junk, 3 firing on it and I’m getting loose primer pockets, time to switch to lapua.
Had trouble with inconsistency on the ogive of the hornady bthp also, will switch to 178 eldm once I’m out of them.
Nosler brass trimmed to 2.005
Hornady 178 bthp
43g imr4064
Seated 2.180 ogive
Wlr primer
Velocity 2520
Sd 14
Es 25
Target 262 yards
Had trouble with inconsistency on the ogive of the hornady bthp also, will switch to 178 eldm once I’m out of them.
Nosler brass trimmed to 2.005
Hornady 178 bthp
43g imr4064
Seated 2.180 ogive
Wlr primer
Velocity 2520
Sd 14
Es 25
Target 262 yards
CZ 557 Varmint, 26” heavy barrel
Federal Brass
Federal 210M
Hornady 178gr ELD-M
44.7gr Varget
AV: 2,760 FPS
SD: 3.7
ES: 8
NOTE: There is some very slight cratering on the primers with this load but they’re not overly flat. Bolt lift is normal.
I’ve seen some other guys using 44-45 gr of Varget with these 178s and I think where you run into pressure is largely dependent on which brass you’re using. 45.0 is just starting to compress powder with Federal cases, but I’ve heard of some other guys being compressed with 1-2gr less powder.
As always, start low and work up.
Federal Brass
Federal 210M
Hornady 178gr ELD-M
44.7gr Varget
AV: 2,760 FPS
SD: 3.7
ES: 8
NOTE: There is some very slight cratering on the primers with this load but they’re not overly flat. Bolt lift is normal.
I’ve seen some other guys using 44-45 gr of Varget with these 178s and I think where you run into pressure is largely dependent on which brass you’re using. 45.0 is just starting to compress powder with Federal cases, but I’ve heard of some other guys being compressed with 1-2gr less powder.
As always, start low and work up.
Pressure can be very dependent on your bullet seating depth to your lands...
Absolutely. All else being equal, longer OAL without touching the lands will better manage pressure.
Point is/was that internal case capacity can vary significantly depending on the brass you’re using, which also has an effect on pressure...
This is the kind of thing I use the app QuickLoad for in that it helps me get a good idea of just what's going on with a particular load. So, using the info from above where the 178 ELD-M is seated to a SAAMU cartridge length of 2.800, that 44.7 gr of Varget is producing around 66,300 psi (SAMMI max is at 62,000 psi). Federal Brass has about 55.5 gr capasity and 44.7 gr of Varget is filling it to 108.1%. For a 26" barrel, QuickLoad shows an MV at 2760 . . . right on the dot as to what's shown above.
45 gr of Varget bring the load to 108.9% of capacity with 67,774 psi of pressure. This is all at a temperature of 70°F. Move to 85°F and this 45 gr of Varget brings the pressure up to 69,400 psi.
If one loads this with a longer COAL, let's say to 2.850, that 44.7 gr of Varget brings the load down to 106.0% of volume and pressure down to 63,325 psi. Make the COAL 2.875 we're looking at 105% of volume and 61.983 psi with an MV of around 2727 fps (all this at 70°F).
If one uses brass with thinner walls, like Winchester brass, one can increase the volume also, thereby reducing pressure further.
I thought I'd throw this out there for some food for thought as one uses this hot of a load.
PS: One of the things I heard from what the pro's do, is that loading close to full capacity tends to produce more consistent results for ES's and SD's.
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Lapua brass
46 gr Varget
Federal large primer
175 gr SMKs
0.006” jump
5 shot cold bore group at 100 yards
GA Precision 308
Badger 2008 action
Bartlein 24” barrel 1300 rounds
11.25 twist
AIAW Chasis
Little Bastard Brake
NSX 5.5-22x56
Atlas Bi-pod
Went back out to range today to do a bullet seating depth test and found 0.017" Jump works best:
46 gr Varget
Federal large primer
175 gr SMKs
0.006” jump
5 shot cold bore group at 100 yards
GA Precision 308
Badger 2008 action
Bartlein 24” barrel 1300 rounds
11.25 twist
AIAW Chasis
Little Bastard Brake
NSX 5.5-22x56
Atlas Bi-pod
Went back out to range today to do a bullet seating depth test and found 0.017" Jump works best:
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208 ELD-M. 43.1 varget. Lapua 1x Brass neck sized with a .334 bushing and shoulder bumped 2/1000”s. 2615 FPS. Oal is 3.025” ( bearing surface is WAY back on these bullets). Fgm210m.
Rifle is a custom with a 28” HV Bartlein 1:11.25.
4 shots at 400 yards. 2.06 Mils dial up.
Rifle is a custom with a 28” HV Bartlein 1:11.25.
4 shots at 400 yards. 2.06 Mils dial up.
Are you running them mag length or single feed?
At one time wasn't there a section dedicated to loads for 308 "gas guns" ??
175 Berger OTM
VarGet 5 ea 42.9 @ 0.040" off and 43.3 @ 0.030" off.
CCI-34's in New 308 W lapua LRP brass
24" 1:12 7.62 NATO AI bbl
slow fire at 400 yards
43.5 Varget @ 0.020" = 2.900" COAL produced 2,676 fps 5 shot avg ES/8 SD/2
VarGet 5 ea 42.9 @ 0.040" off and 43.3 @ 0.030" off.
CCI-34's in New 308 W lapua LRP brass
24" 1:12 7.62 NATO AI bbl
slow fire at 400 yards
43.5 Varget @ 0.020" = 2.900" COAL produced 2,676 fps 5 shot avg ES/8 SD/2
VarGet with either the F210M primer or I like to use the CCI-34's with Varget in the 308 W, seat them 0.020" off and go from there. 2,600 fps in a 24" bbl has been GTG for me.
According to what I see in QL . . . nope. The barrel is just too short to get you there.
Fore example, using 48.0 gr of RL15 brings the pressure up to SAAMI max pressure of 62,000 psi with the cartridge at 105.2% full (and with a COIL of 2.850 to get more volume to keep down the pressure some), which shows a velocity at around 2678 fps. Ann 18" barrel would get you to your target velocity, but at this same pressure.
QL shows Varget producing a little less velocity.
I thought so. Thank you very much for running that for me. Time to call Craddock precision and have him spin me up a 18-inch barrel. By any chance did quick load tell you how many grains of reloader 15 or Varget out of an 18 inch barrel to get to 2750 roughly? Of course I will start low and work up. just curious to see what quick load has to say.
As I thought I was saying before . . . QL shows 48.0 gr of RL15 would get you too the 2750 fps with an 18" barrel, AND. . . at max pressure at 62000 psi. Note too, I ran this at 70°F. Change the temp to 90°F and the pressure on this goes up to 64400 psi and velocity to 2786 fps.
And also keep in mind that these number I've run are with a COIL at 2.850. Shorten that COAL down to 2.800 and you're compressing that load and spiking that pressure up.So, yea . . . I'd say definitely start working up low on your loads and work up slowly watching for pressure signs.
Now of course, if you were to go with a 20" barrel, then it all easier and safer where you've got some room for anything that might cause a spike in pressure. ?
Good Luck.
Thank you very much sir! I will heed your advice closely and just forget a shorter Barrel and go with 20"As I thought I was saying before . . . QL shows 48.0 gr of RL15 would get you too the 2750 fps with an 18" barrel, AND. . . at max pressure at 62000 psi. Note too, I ran this at 70°F. Change the temp to 90°F and the pressure on this goes up to 64400 psi and velocity to 2786 fps.
So, yea . . . I'd say definitely start working up low on your loads and work up slowly watching for pressure signs.
Now of course, if you were to go with a 20" barrel, then it all easier and safer where you've got some room for anything that might cause a spike in pressure. ?
Good Luck.
Any one played with the new horn A tIp 176 gr bullet? looking for a load to play with.
175gr nosler custom competition
42.0gr IMR 4064
FED 210 primer
Lapua brass full length sized
2.850 COAL
2661 avg..
168 speer hpbt
39.9 AR COMP
FED 210M primer
Lapua brass neck sized
2.800 COAL
2600 avg...
New caliber to me, so not much down the tube. Both combo's 1/2 moa at 100y.
Small sample size. Still doin OCW's on several powders and bullet combo's.
Savage 10FCP-SR 24" barrel, 4 port brake
Bushnell engage 4-16x44
Sinclair F-Class front bipod
Precision underground rear bag.
42.0gr IMR 4064
FED 210 primer
Lapua brass full length sized
2.850 COAL
2661 avg..
168 speer hpbt
39.9 AR COMP
FED 210M primer
Lapua brass neck sized
2.800 COAL
2600 avg...
New caliber to me, so not much down the tube. Both combo's 1/2 moa at 100y.
Small sample size. Still doin OCW's on several powders and bullet combo's.
Savage 10FCP-SR 24" barrel, 4 port brake
Bushnell engage 4-16x44
Sinclair F-Class front bipod
Precision underground rear bag.
Rl 15 43.1 weighed after Lock and load drop. +/- 2 kernels of powder
CCI 200
Lapua once fired fl sized with RCBS die neck honed for .002 neck tension(worth it)
168 smk COAL 2.820 .135 off the lands
2643fps SD 2 es 7 over 10 shots
First group is cold clean bore. First shot middle right then the next 4 are high as it shoots in. Adjusted .1 mil down and drilled the hole
Second was a target at 200 that had no holes near the bullseyes. I did a five shot dot drill using my splits app in 18 seconds and some change from a loaded chamber finger on the bang switch. Add 1-2 seconds for inserting a mag is my good day run
Third is a 5 shot 300yd had some issues with mirage. This is from a heated shoot house and I sit right next to it because it is the 300yd lane. I don't turn it on because of the mirage but others do
The other 2 are Fgmm I pulled the high shot in the bottom and The 2nd from bottom I went up.2 and right instead of left. Moved .4 left then down.1 and right .1 for the 3.
This rifle shoots box ammo really well. I have faster 175grn loads that shoot tighter than the FGMM. The smk and eldm use the same 0 so in a pinch or letting someone shoot it/class etc the box ammo is not the cuprit of a poor group.
CCI 200
Lapua once fired fl sized with RCBS die neck honed for .002 neck tension(worth it)
168 smk COAL 2.820 .135 off the lands
2643fps SD 2 es 7 over 10 shots
First group is cold clean bore. First shot middle right then the next 4 are high as it shoots in. Adjusted .1 mil down and drilled the hole
Second was a target at 200 that had no holes near the bullseyes. I did a five shot dot drill using my splits app in 18 seconds and some change from a loaded chamber finger on the bang switch. Add 1-2 seconds for inserting a mag is my good day run
Third is a 5 shot 300yd had some issues with mirage. This is from a heated shoot house and I sit right next to it because it is the 300yd lane. I don't turn it on because of the mirage but others do
The other 2 are Fgmm I pulled the high shot in the bottom and The 2nd from bottom I went up.2 and right instead of left. Moved .4 left then down.1 and right .1 for the 3.
This rifle shoots box ammo really well. I have faster 175grn loads that shoot tighter than the FGMM. The smk and eldm use the same 0 so in a pinch or letting someone shoot it/class etc the box ammo is not the cuprit of a poor group.
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