i ran through the last few pages but does anyone have a pet load for 168ELDm and varget/h4895
if it matters 22" proof barrel federal brass till my I buy lapua
if it matters 22" proof barrel federal brass till my I buy lapua
- Thread starter Two Shoes
- Start date
I run them in BH brass at 44 of H4895 in my 22". Get 2800. QL has it above 62000 psi so work up. Not bad ballistics for a 168. Shot well.
I started at 10% below listed max of 45. And increased 2% for 3 rounds, after that I increased 1% every 3 rounds. At 44.9 I got these signs and stopped. Obviously incorrect? Without measuring the actual case capacity, how do you determine 43.5 is the max charge fort brass?
Not being argumentative just here to learn
D
Deleted member 113831
Guest
918V was being a little harsh, but what he said is true. Federal brass is really soft, and it has big primer pockets. Only use CCI or Federal primers in Federal brass. I load mine at 43.5 for the hot loads and still only get 3 firings out of them from a match chamber.
I mostly use Federal for my gas guns. I load them light (39.5 - 40.5 grains) with the slightly faster 4895's and still don't shoot them more than 4 times.
I know some of you may have programs that can make short work of these questions, including velocity, pressure, etc.
So I just wanna get you guy's feelings on this load of mine. It's a 175 SMK over 41.8gr. RE15 in new Lapua brass w/CCI 34's loaded to ~2.2" off the ogive for 2.8" or right about at mag length for an SR25 mag. Rifle is a 20" SR25, one of the new ones. When I worked the loads up the most accurate loads were at 41.8 and 42gr at about 2500-2550fps; the book says for the bullet 41.3 is max but other data went even higher, as high as 44gr. and velocities of 2700fps and up.
The M118LR load chasers tend to use 42.8-43. Should I consider trying hotter loads, since those are pretty much the exact components for the match ammo, would I get better results doing that? Or just wear out good brass faster?
I used to use Varget and knew it well, but when it got impossible to get a while back I got ten pounds of RE15 instead. So that's why the choice on it.
I decided on the 41.8 because it was the lower of the two most accurate I tested with this combination. I tested it in December and I have a couple hundred and planned on loading all of them with this load and a 168 load for the once fired cases, since they'll only ever be used in this SR25. Then I'll get more serious. Don't wanna prematurely wear out the brass, but should these be worked up closer to 43 and not 41.8?
ALSO, is there a good load for these components using 168 SMK's? I have some data on it but not much, the chrono wanted to stop working. Again, army load chasers call for 43 and 44gr.... 43 sounds manageable and I may have worked up to that one but I never found an accuracy node with the handful loaded and got little data other than visual inspection of the primers, brass, which looked fine.
My brass is extraordinarily filthy but I attribute that to use of the suppressor. The primers looked okay to me and the brass wasn't damaged by the loads tested.
Thanks.
So I just wanna get you guy's feelings on this load of mine. It's a 175 SMK over 41.8gr. RE15 in new Lapua brass w/CCI 34's loaded to ~2.2" off the ogive for 2.8" or right about at mag length for an SR25 mag. Rifle is a 20" SR25, one of the new ones. When I worked the loads up the most accurate loads were at 41.8 and 42gr at about 2500-2550fps; the book says for the bullet 41.3 is max but other data went even higher, as high as 44gr. and velocities of 2700fps and up.
The M118LR load chasers tend to use 42.8-43. Should I consider trying hotter loads, since those are pretty much the exact components for the match ammo, would I get better results doing that? Or just wear out good brass faster?
I used to use Varget and knew it well, but when it got impossible to get a while back I got ten pounds of RE15 instead. So that's why the choice on it.
I decided on the 41.8 because it was the lower of the two most accurate I tested with this combination. I tested it in December and I have a couple hundred and planned on loading all of them with this load and a 168 load for the once fired cases, since they'll only ever be used in this SR25. Then I'll get more serious. Don't wanna prematurely wear out the brass, but should these be worked up closer to 43 and not 41.8?
ALSO, is there a good load for these components using 168 SMK's? I have some data on it but not much, the chrono wanted to stop working. Again, army load chasers call for 43 and 44gr.... 43 sounds manageable and I may have worked up to that one but I never found an accuracy node with the handful loaded and got little data other than visual inspection of the primers, brass, which looked fine.
My brass is extraordinarily filthy but I attribute that to use of the suppressor. The primers looked okay to me and the brass wasn't damaged by the loads tested.
Thanks.
D
Deleted member 113831
Guest
You are in a good spot with that load. Velocity is right where you should be with that barrel length.
M118, in all it's variations throughout the years, has always been a hot load. It is not one that I would feel the need to duplicate. The military has always had some pretty unrealistic expectations from the 308. They want it supersonic to 1000m, at sea level, at 0 F, and not lock up bolts when it's 120F in the desert. I don't know of a powder that will do that with a 175 grain bullet.
The listed max is for Winchester commercial brass, not Federal. The former has less brass in it, hence more case volume, like 2grs of water more.
When you go to reload your FC cases you’ll find the primer pockets are loose.
FC cases are indeed "loose" compared to other's . . . especially compared to brass like Lapua or Peterson. Though FC cases are known to be "soft" and have "loose" primer pockets, I'm on my 8th firing of some I've had for some time now and the pockets seem to be maintaining their particular dimension as I swag the pockets after every firing to find any that are just so loose they shouldn't be used. On the 4th firing I found one that I had to throw away and on the 7th firing I found another "one" to throw away. I use FC cases mostly for my lighter charges (e.g. 40.5 - 41.5grs Varget). And I inspect the cases after firing and so far they look good. Because of their "softer" brass, I do notice that after firing the necks lengthen by around .002 after firing and after sizing (either neck or full), it tends to grow to where I feel I need to trim them every time to 2.005 to keep them consistent. And BTW, I have only neck bumped and next size this brass. . . no full length sizing for the most part.
Haven't had any that I can actually explain . . . except for shooter error (poor shooting mechanics). But addressing as many variables and uniforming the cartridges as much as possible has helped a great deal in removing unexplainable fliers (e.g. sorting bullets based on Bearing Surface Length, consistent neck tension, maintaining concentricity close to .001, seating depths within +/- .001, powder measurements within +/- .02 gr, etc). Cartridges with these kinds of specs, it's invariably shooter error causing the flier.
Good enough for me I think.
185 Juggernaut bullet
Lapua Palma brass, sized x 2
CCI SRMag primer
Varget 43.9gr, charges thrown on RCBS Chargemaster ( Use my load at your on risk!!!)
10 shots, 600yds 3.59"x 2.88", measured from outer edge of holes, greatest dimensions.
Rifle AI/AT 26" barrel
Avg velocity 2432fps, STD 8.2
(Patched holes are from shots with my hunting rifle checking scope settings) these Splash targets are expensive!, so I try to get max use and patch the heck out of them.
185 Juggernaut bullet
Lapua Palma brass, sized x 2
CCI SRMag primer
Varget 43.9gr, charges thrown on RCBS Chargemaster ( Use my load at your on risk!!!)
10 shots, 600yds 3.59"x 2.88", measured from outer edge of holes, greatest dimensions.
Rifle AI/AT 26" barrel
Avg velocity 2432fps, STD 8.2
(Patched holes are from shots with my hunting rifle checking scope settings) these Splash targets are expensive!, so I try to get max use and patch the heck out of them.
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Custom built .308. Stiller Tac 30 , 28” 1:11.25 Bartlein HV. SAS Arbiter suppressor.
Load is 43.8 varget. 1x Lapua brass bumped back 2/1000”’s with a .334 bushing. CCI br2, 178 ELD-M at 2.865” (2.242 to ogive ).
Running 2745 fps. Confirmed G1 of .531.
Zero at 111 yards. It was dead on at 2.15 mils at 426 yards.
Load is 43.8 varget. 1x Lapua brass bumped back 2/1000”’s with a .334 bushing. CCI br2, 178 ELD-M at 2.865” (2.242 to ogive ).
Running 2745 fps. Confirmed G1 of .531.
Zero at 111 yards. It was dead on at 2.15 mils at 426 yards.
Your information mirrors my testing. I keep records of all rounds tested or fired in notebooks that go back many years. An almost a universal finding is that loads under max give the best accuracy. With my 308 gas gun and 308 bolt gun they seem to favor a velocity of right around 2550-2625 fps with a 175-178 grain bullet. I'm currently using the Nosler 175 RDF and having really good success with it as it seems far less sensitive to jump to the lands for best accuracy. I like that because I don't have to load one lot of ammo for the gas gun, and another lot of ammo for the bolt gun. I can get to 2700 fps with the bolt gun, and 2650 with the gas gun (20" gas gun and 26" bolt gun barrel lengths) without pressure issues or signs.
My gas gun used to have a 24" barrel until I had it cut to 20", and even at 24", the gas gun developed higher velocities than the bolt gun that had a 26" barrel..I guess it was just a faster rifle.
With the 24" barrel, my gas gun liked to shoot the 175's at 2620 fps, now that it has a 20" barrel, velocity is around 2550-2570, which is fine with me. I prefer accuracy over velocity in any case. The only powder I have been using in both rifles for the past 3 years is Varget, mostly because I have plenty of it in stock. CCI BR2 primers, LC match cases. Right around 43.3-43.5 Varget.
Hey y’all. Currently running Hornady 168 bthp, Hornady brass, 42.5 grn varget, and cci primers out of a 20 inch Rpr. Velocity wise I am getting right at 2500 FPS. Groups seems to be reasonable. Most of my shooting is done sub 700 but on occasion we will stretch it out to 1000.
There seems to be so much load data around using what I am using but with 44 grn varget. My question is, is it worth it to bump up the 1.5 grn. Does anyone have similar success running these loads? Does anyone have velocities??? I appreciate all the advice.
There seems to be so much load data around using what I am using but with 44 grn varget. My question is, is it worth it to bump up the 1.5 grn. Does anyone have similar success running these loads? Does anyone have velocities??? I appreciate all the advice.
I personally don't shoot that combination, but my Hornady Reloading manual lists it as the max load for your combination. Since reloading manuals are typically on the safe side, I'd say that it will run safe in your rifle but I would still work up to it and watch for pressure carefully.
Hodgdon's Reloading website (I recommend it and use it a lot) lists 46gr as max load (but with Win. cases)
Hornady says 2600 fps (22" barrel) at max, and Hodgdon lists 2731 fps at max (24" barrel). From your 20", I'd say you'll get right under or at 2600 fps. Run the numbers through a ballistic calculator. Is 100 fps going to help you out? On one hand, the 308 can use every advantage you can give it. On the other, the 308 shoots rainbows pretty much no matter the velocity.
Hodgdon's Reloading website (I recommend it and use it a lot) lists 46gr as max load (but with Win. cases)
Hornady says 2600 fps (22" barrel) at max, and Hodgdon lists 2731 fps at max (24" barrel). From your 20", I'd say you'll get right under or at 2600 fps. Run the numbers through a ballistic calculator. Is 100 fps going to help you out? On one hand, the 308 can use every advantage you can give it. On the other, the 308 shoots rainbows pretty much no matter the velocity.
Did you work up this load? Seems awfully light. What’s the ES? I’m running 208’s at your speeds. That’s a 55% higher BC.
have to prove it with more groups but after OCW test this is what i got, i haven't seen much for this bullet so posting and will update after more groups.
168 Hornady ELD Match
43.7 gr Varget
Winchester twice fired brass
cases trimmed to 2.005
length to ogive: 2.245
chamber length to ogive: 2.308
Federal 210M primer
temp 73 F
Hum 87.79%
Pressure 101182 Pa
wind: none
Barrel 20" 1:12 remington sps tactical factory barrel
group size was just under .5" center to center (spotters are 1.5" spotters with .75" inner circle"
rounds were fired at target 1-5 then 5-1, let barrel cool and repeated. 5 shot groups. unlabeled groups were for unrelated testing. shot from bipod with rear bag (sock full of poly beads) Will update with velocities when i chronograph on next trip. hope this helps someone
could probably tweak it in more by searching around the 43.7 and playing with seating depth more
168 Hornady ELD Match
43.7 gr Varget
Winchester twice fired brass
cases trimmed to 2.005
length to ogive: 2.245
chamber length to ogive: 2.308
Federal 210M primer
temp 73 F
Hum 87.79%
Pressure 101182 Pa
wind: none
Barrel 20" 1:12 remington sps tactical factory barrel
group size was just under .5" center to center (spotters are 1.5" spotters with .75" inner circle"
rounds were fired at target 1-5 then 5-1, let barrel cool and repeated. 5 shot groups. unlabeled groups were for unrelated testing. shot from bipod with rear bag (sock full of poly beads) Will update with velocities when i chronograph on next trip. hope this helps someone
could probably tweak it in more by searching around the 43.7 and playing with seating depth more
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Looking to make a 16" 308AR friendly load with 168 Amax and 4064 set a 2.810. I have 95% LC brass and some mixed hornady. Plan is 41-43.5. All checks out on QL. I understand there is a sweet spot in the 42.5-42.8 area that comes up a ton. How does this plan sound?
Rifle is a Trued Remington 700 with a 24 inch Krieger barrel chambered by Northwest Action Works. FGMM .308 168 grain came in at 2710 FPS.
175
Lapua Brass
Federal 210M Primer
Berger 175 OTM Tactical
Varget 44 grains
Coal 2.830
Velocity 2720
SD was 12
168
Lapua Brass
Federal 210M Primer
Berger 168 Hybrid
Varget 45.5 grains
Coal 2.830
Velocity 2845
SD was 15
175
Lapua Brass
Federal 210M Primer
Berger 175 OTM Tactical
Varget 44 grains
Coal 2.830
Velocity 2720
SD was 12
168
Lapua Brass
Federal 210M Primer
Berger 168 Hybrid
Varget 45.5 grains
Coal 2.830
Velocity 2845
SD was 15
@Dschapp44 what's your elevation @ 1000 (in general)?
I was shooting in Eagle Wisconsin which is about 1000 feet above sea level. If you mean MOA to 1000 yards my calc is coming in at 34.5MOA.
I had them loaded at 2.80 COAL but started to get pressure signs.
I think that is 10.22 mils but I am sure someone that is better at this can give the right answer. The reason I asked was that I have a short 16.5 inch .308 using factory Fed GMM 175 SMKs that need 14 mils of elevation at sea-level to hit at 1000 yards.
Cheers
Cheers
I haven't had a chance to try them yet but I would expect the FGMM 175 to come in about 2600 FPS out of my rifle and if I remember right 308s lose about 25 FPS per inch of barrel length so that would put you in the 2400 FPS range which would make sense.
This rifle started life as a Remington 700 SD-AAC with an 18 inch barrel and ended up getting it rebarreled to get some more FPS out of it and haven't been happier
.308 Win, 178gr Hornady HPBT
LC12 Full Length Resize 1x Fired
2.0" Trim Length
CCI200
Varget 43-45.1 grain. (Hornady Book Max Load is 43.2)
2.806 COAL
24" M24 Profile K&P Barrel
LRI cleaned up Remington 700 SA
Slightly cratered primers from the start, but still rounded on the edges. Slightly stiffer bolt lift on the 45.1gr charge, noticeable but ever so slight.
Threw one shot on the 43 grain charge group when my neighbor popped off a braked 7mm RUM and rattled my fillings loose as I broke my shot.
LC12 Full Length Resize 1x Fired
2.0" Trim Length
CCI200
Varget 43-45.1 grain. (Hornady Book Max Load is 43.2)
2.806 COAL
24" M24 Profile K&P Barrel
LRI cleaned up Remington 700 SA
Slightly cratered primers from the start, but still rounded on the edges. Slightly stiffer bolt lift on the 45.1gr charge, noticeable but ever so slight.
Threw one shot on the 43 grain charge group when my neighbor popped off a braked 7mm RUM and rattled my fillings loose as I broke my shot.
Hornady book is so conservative it's unreal. My brothers 308 is almost done and i was curious to see what people were running with a 178gr ELD-X. To see their manual list 43.2gr of varget as max or something to that degree i was wondering wtf is going on. I ran to 45.5 with my 700 5R with 178gr BTHP, settled on 45gr.
Anyway i'm looking to hit 2650 or so. My go to is going to be varget and i have some 2000mr but am unsure on how temp stable it is. Should i try some RL17? This will be a 20" 308 off a bighorn Origin.
Anyway i'm looking to hit 2650 or so. My go to is going to be varget and i have some 2000mr but am unsure on how temp stable it is. Should i try some RL17? This will be a 20" 308 off a bighorn Origin.
Hmmmm??? Don't know if this'll be much help as I fire 175gr SMKs and Nosler CCs out of my factory RPR. With the powder's that work best for me, I typically get 1/2 MOA or a little better. Varget is my go to powder too and I've also tried Pro 2000-MR and RL-17. The 2000-MR actually did quite well for me at 45 to 46 grs (82°F), but as you are apparently aware, it is temp sensitive. But having the right load for which ever temp you're firing at, it works great and I really like how it meters. When I tried RL-17, I just couldn't find any load that worked well or well enough not to use Varget, 4064, 2000-MR or . . . AR Comp. For me, the AR Comp was second to Varget for getting good consistent metering and results on paper. RL-17 was a big disappointment or me. Then again, I'm not firing ELD-Xs in my 308.
I have tested 2000mr in a rudimentary way by “cooking” some loaded rounds in a thermos with a jar of hot water in there as well. No signs of massive temp sensitivity. Now that I have a chrono I need to repeat the test again with some actual numbers. But it is my go to powder and our yearly temp variance can be over 100 deg.
In my RPR this load has shot a 3” group at 700m repeatedly. Disclaimer: this was on my best day ever and I normally do not shoot this well but I was able to repeat this enough that day to know that the rifle can.
Load
LC LR brass
S&B large rifle primer
47.7 gr pp 2000mr
178 Hornady HPBT
OAL IDK off the top of my head but it is just within mag length
2650 FPS out of my 20” barrel
Standard disclaimer. Work up in your gun first.
In my RPR this load has shot a 3” group at 700m repeatedly. Disclaimer: this was on my best day ever and I normally do not shoot this well but I was able to repeat this enough that day to know that the rifle can.
Load
LC LR brass
S&B large rifle primer
47.7 gr pp 2000mr
178 Hornady HPBT
OAL IDK off the top of my head but it is just within mag length
2650 FPS out of my 20” barrel
Standard disclaimer. Work up in your gun first.
Below is the data I have for the 178gr ELDx, Varget, Lapua brass and a 28” barrel. Never really saw any pressure signs. Slight cratering on the primes but that started at ~43.0gr.
Has anyone used Alliant 2000-MR for a 155 grain class bullet? Looking to buy some Varget and would like to compare it to 2000-MR. Any suggestion for min/max loads?
Will be shot out of a 20" AIAT factory barrel at sea level between 25* - 100* F (Alabama).
Also, any issues y'all see in starting at 43.0 grains of Varget and working up to 48.0 in .5 grain increments? Again, will start off buy using some leftover 155TMKs, CCI LR primers, once fired Federal brass (through my AIAT barrel).
Thank you.
Will be shot out of a 20" AIAT factory barrel at sea level between 25* - 100* F (Alabama).
Also, any issues y'all see in starting at 43.0 grains of Varget and working up to 48.0 in .5 grain increments? Again, will start off buy using some leftover 155TMKs, CCI LR primers, once fired Federal brass (through my AIAT barrel).
Thank you.
"Also, any issues y'all see in starting at 43.0 grains of Varget and working up to 48.0 in .5 grain increments? Again, will start off buy using some leftover 155TMKs, CCI LR primers, once fired Federal brass (through my AIAT barrel). "
A 5 grain increase from low to high in 1/2 grain increments is a pretty wide test. If you chrono the results you'll see significant velocity increases, so significant you might blow by an accuracy node. Pick a starting point on either end of the powder charge and go up/down in .2 gr increments. The velocity spread should be flatter which will make the nodes easier to spot.
I've no experience using 155's in a .308 but 48 grs. seems a tad warm. Be safe, have fun.
A 5 grain increase from low to high in 1/2 grain increments is a pretty wide test. If you chrono the results you'll see significant velocity increases, so significant you might blow by an accuracy node. Pick a starting point on either end of the powder charge and go up/down in .2 gr increments. The velocity spread should be flatter which will make the nodes easier to spot.
I've no experience using 155's in a .308 but 48 grs. seems a tad warm. Be safe, have fun.
Oh I wrote point 5 (.5) grain haha, 5 grain change is my whole test!
I’ve read folks using 175+ grainers, but I’d like to push 155s fast to get a flatter load for unknown distance while still having a 4 MPH rifle (Trying to get 2800fps+). Right now I’m going to go with Varget, but have heard 2000-MR is a bit faster, though less temperature stable.
^^^I've had excellent results with 8208 XBR in the 308 with lighter bullets. Also H4895. Food for thought.
I started at 44 gr Varget with 155 gr ELD-M's. Saw pressure at 48, 48.2 gr. Little bit of ejector swipe and sticky bolt. Went down to a node at 46 gr, got right around 2800 fps from a 24" barrel. I also saw a higher node around 47-47.5 gr that would do just over 2900 fps.
I usually use .5 gr charges to test for max load and then I go back to spots that look interesting and do .3 gr increments to look for the node.
EDIT: after reading the following post about high pressure, I should caveat this load with the fact that it is a LONG Remington throat, so I am jumping them a mile
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I've used 2000-MR some last year with my RPR, 20" factory barrel and the same brass you'll be using (Federal previously fired brass that's been precision tuned). It definitely provides more velocity and I was actually happy with my experience using it as I tested it in pretty much the same climate. I found an accuracy node that gave me some good groups using 168 SMK's at 100 yrds, though ES's were not great for any of the loads. Using 175 SMK's, I did use up to 49 grs where that was the only load that did well with them having velocities at 2660, ES's in the low 30's and single digit SDs. All together, I used loads from 43.8 to 49.0 gr.
Like for so many other people, Varget is my go to powder as get great all around numbers and really good consistency with it. The load of it I did best with it using the factory barrel was 43.6 grs pushing the 175 SMKs and getting 2630 fps with single digit SD's and ES's in the low 20's. Having swapped the factory barrel out for a 24" Krieger barrel where the best load is now 43 gr. of Varget giving me 2650 fps with single digit ES's and SD's (oh, and in this case am using Lapua brass and bullets seated .010 off lands).
I use the QuickLOAD software to help me save some time in load development, especially when trying a new powder. Though I don't shoot 155's, I think I can give you some numbers that might give you some ideas to work with. . .??? The program doesn't list the Pro 2000-MR, so i can't do anything there. But for Varget, firing 155 gr TMK's with a cartridge length at SAAMI spec of 2.800" out of a 20" barrel, you're looking at 46.7 grs that would get you right at that 2800 fps. That is at really high pressure and the program calculates the pressure to be 65,885 psi (compare that to the recommended max pressure of 62,000 psi). Note too, that with that kind of pressure, the Federal brass is not going to last long. . . . so be aware of primer pocket expansion with them). And if you are full length sizing the brass and not just neck sizing, it takes only 46.1 grs to do the same.
PS: 48 grs of Varget could be a 16.4% compressed charge that would get you just over 2900 fps with the 155 TMKs and chamber pressure calculated at 76,550 psi.
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Yeah, seating that round out much further would help with that pressure. For example if the cartridge length is moved to 2.900", the software calculates an MV for a 155 TMK of about 2930 fps using 48.0 grs of Varget with pressure down to 65,880 psi. And for 46.0 grs, it's showing MV at 2815 fps and a somewhat mild pressure of 57,350 psi. (those MVs are for the 24" barrel; for a 20" barrel that MV for the latter would be at 2710 fps)
Thank y’all that really does help me. Trying to do it right this time as my last foray into reloading lead to much frustration and inconsistent results.
Sounds like I may need to look at the Quickload software. Plan on running the mentioned Varget ladder test @ 2.900 OAL to find the powder charge, then fine tune my seating depth.
*Hope* to find a load within 50 rounds.
Sounds like I may need to look at the Quickload software. Plan on running the mentioned Varget ladder test @ 2.900 OAL to find the powder charge, then fine tune my seating depth.
*Hope* to find a load within 50 rounds.
Yeah, I think my COAL was 2.850" for those and I was like 200 thou from the lands (yeah, that's .200"!). ~2930 fps @ 48.2 gr.
Quickload really seems like it's spot on...I should probably spend the money on it...
M1A full length (22" barrel), 168-gr bullets (probably the Hornady ELD since they finally fixed that boat tail problem), GI brass.
Varget or good old reliable IMR 4064???
Wondering where the collective experiences and wisdom are on this these days. I'm in the midst of load development once I get a warmer Saturday, have six test loads to run, and just looked at the different powders I have around. Would like to reduce the number of different ones used. IF I get the same peak accuracy from them (That's how I wound up with them both when I was shooting 178 A-Maxes...and Varget was Unobtanium for so long...), is the greater temperature stability worth the slight price premium for Varget?
QuickLOAD puts the port pressures as nearly identical for these two, when the velocities are the same.
Please chime in, especially if your experiences are specific to the M14 platform with the regular barrel. This one is an SAI medium heavy, bedded and all that jazz.
Thanks!
Varget or good old reliable IMR 4064???
Wondering where the collective experiences and wisdom are on this these days. I'm in the midst of load development once I get a warmer Saturday, have six test loads to run, and just looked at the different powders I have around. Would like to reduce the number of different ones used. IF I get the same peak accuracy from them (That's how I wound up with them both when I was shooting 178 A-Maxes...and Varget was Unobtanium for so long...), is the greater temperature stability worth the slight price premium for Varget?
QuickLOAD puts the port pressures as nearly identical for these two, when the velocities are the same.
Please chime in, especially if your experiences are specific to the M14 platform with the regular barrel. This one is an SAI medium heavy, bedded and all that jazz.
Thanks!
I find I get significantly more consistency out of Varget than 4064 no matter which bullet I use. And from what I can tell from my own data for my 308, it's not much to do with temp sensitivity, but it's that I find that Varget meters better than 4064, which in turn tens to give me more consistent loads. I just find it hard to get really accurate loads of 4064 powder due it the size of its granules.
Can someone help ballpark my fps?
20" howa
155 eld
Cci large rifle 450s I think
Fed brass
45.2gr varget
COAL 2.790
I'm thinking around 2750-2800?
20" howa
155 eld
Cci large rifle 450s I think
Fed brass
45.2gr varget
COAL 2.790
I'm thinking around 2750-2800?
Well the Hornady 178 A-Max crunches with that load in USGI brass. Has IMR 4064 had burn rate variations lately? Worked up that load a few years ago, and this year I’m getting signs of max pressure using it with 168 ELDs.
Bearing length on the ELD is noticeably shorter than on the 178 A-Max. Lines are from the calipers at 0.300.
Top to bottom is 1980s 190 SMK,
178 A-Max
168 ELD-M
168 SMK
Attachments
Sps Tactical 20” 1:12 with a Bell and Carlson bedded.
175 smk at 2.235 to ogive. 2.825” coal
1x Lapua brass neck sized with a .334 bushing and shoulder bumped 2/1000”.
42.5 imr 4064
2500 fps.
14.00 IPHY on Zeiss MC CONQUEST 4.5x14x50 at 506 yards with a 110 yard zero.
10 or 11 shots at 506 yards.
175 smk at 2.235 to ogive. 2.825” coal
1x Lapua brass neck sized with a .334 bushing and shoulder bumped 2/1000”.
42.5 imr 4064
2500 fps.
14.00 IPHY on Zeiss MC CONQUEST 4.5x14x50 at 506 yards with a 110 yard zero.
10 or 11 shots at 506 yards.
Hmmm??? Interesting as I compare one of my good loads at 41.5 gr of IMR 4064 out of a 20" 1:10 Ruger precision barrel getting around 2540 fps at temp running 85°- 95°F (using same brass configuration).
But a couple numbers jumped out at me and don't seem quite right for your measurements to ogive relative to COAL when the length of the 175 SMK bullet runs 1.234 to 1.266. It seems if your BTO is 2.235, your COAL should be something around 2.840 or more???
