.308 Winchester

skyrep

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Any one loading 185gr Berger Juggernaut Target in .308?
i've great success with IMR 4064 (42.5gr) at 2.910 COAL. 2659fps with SD: 7.4. Work up the load. This what my barrel liked (Tikka .308 Match medium Palma Barrel).
 

Guns&WhiteWater

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Going to re-barrel my target .308win rifle. It will have a Krieger 1:9" 5R finished at 26". I was wondering if anyone has loaded any 200gr class bullets?

I am going to try the Berger Hybrid Target 215gr with Lapua brass and CCI BR2 primers. I will also be using Varget.

Anyone tried this combination? Most of the info on-line only shows bullets up to 208gr. I know the work up procedure. I'm just looking to see if anyone has experience with the heavies in the venerable .308win …(?).
I don't use Varget with heavies, but I do use RL-17. Pushing Berger 210 VLD Hunting bullets at a shade under 2700 with a 26" Mullerworks out of a CZ 550 action. Single loading, of course.
 

straightshooter1

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Max BTO with a 178 ELDM is 2.3085.
You just might be able to load all the way out to the lands as there'll be plenty of bearing surface inside the neck if your mag can hold them than long, otherwise, you'd need to single feed them. And there'll probably be an issue on ejecting a live round from a short action because of the very long cartridge length when one is loading that long. If you need to load them in a mag, the mag length is your limitation. I'd guess .020 off the lands would totally work, but you'll have to experiment with different lengths to see what kind of jump gives you the best results in your particular rifle.
 

winniedonkey

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Thinking about trying the Sierra 155 out. Going to run H4895. I run a 22" and would like to hit 2900. Most of the loads I've seen are for longer barrels. Is 2900 with a 22" doable?
 

straightshooter1

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Thinking about trying the Sierra 155 out. Going to run H4895. I run a 22" and would like to hit 2900. Most of the loads I've seen are for longer barrels. Is 2900 with a 22" doable?
I don't think so . . . not with a 22" barrel. But . . . you might get close as you're likely have to exceed the SAAMI max pressure a little.
 

Bantam1

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176 Hornady A-Tip
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25

2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group

This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
 

straightshooter1

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176 Hornady A-Tip
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25

2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group

This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
Yeah, that velocity is right in line with my calculations in the app QuickLoad at a temperature of 70°F for 44.3 gr of Varget. But note, the pressure is quite high at around 64,000+ psi. Bump the temperature up to something like 90°F and pressure is getting to 67,000 psi.
 

Bantam1

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I run the same powder and charge weight with the Hornady 178 HPBT and have zero issues. No ejector swipes or primer flattening. I have shot it from 20-100 degrees. It's been safe in my rifle.

I do appreciate the heads up.
 
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Smiglans

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I use 195 TMK and VARGET with great result. 1:10, 28"barrell, rem700 system. MV 2640fps.
Next months i will try berger 200.20x also using VARGET and maybe RS52.
 

6MT

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Here are 3 different loads for 3 different bullets. This rifle with this barrel will soon be replaced with basically the same barrel, but finished at 26" (not 24").

Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Lapua Scenar 155gr
Powder brand and weight: Varget 47.2gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length: 2.230" CBTO
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Distance to lands: .007"
Velocity (average): 3045fps ES=10 SD=3.2 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 683m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 48% RH, .002" shoulder bump

I chose the 155gr scenars because of the competition consensus about four years ago....faster and flatter. According to iSnipe, it transitions right around 1200m (a moderate to high load).
****************************************************************************************

Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 178gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 43.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.245"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2745fps ES=11 SD=3.1 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.0Kpa, 55% RH, .002" shoulder bump

It's a shame I won't be shooting this for long. It is a very accurate and consistent load for this rifle. But, I'll be re-barrelling the Coyote in the very near future and moving on to something different. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just under 1200m (a moderate load).
****************************************************************************************

Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote
Barrel length and twist: 24" 1:10" Krieger
Projectile brand, model and weight: Hornady 208gr ELD-M
Powder brand and weight: Varget 41.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: N/A (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.243"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.005"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2532fps ES=11 SD=3.7 (30 shot string)
Outside temperature: 24c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 1124m ASL, 100.9 KPA, 42% RH, .002" shoulder bump

Easy kilometre plinking load. It bucks the wind pretty fair too. According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1400m (a moderate to high load).
 
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Randallk

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176 Hornady A-Tip
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25

2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group

This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
176 Hornady A-Tip
44.3 Varget
Lapua brass .002" neck tension
CCI BR-2
2.178" To ogive (.030" jump in my barrel)
GAP 22" 1:11.25

2673 fps
SD 2.6
ES 4
.38 MOA best group

This was found in my load development. I will confirm it at distance, but given the low SD and consistency of these I think they will be a winner. They kick ass in my 65CM rifle.
do you get a bunch of powder crunch with that load
 

straightshooter1

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I've got a 24" Krieger barrel on my .308 RPR now and thought I'd try out a Harrell tuner. So, though it's been 380 rounds since I cleaned the barrel, I went out yesterday to see if I could get the tuner to tighten up my groups some for the loads I've been recently firing and was pleased with the result . They're only 3 shot groups, but all under .4 MOA and tell me what I wanted to know. MV for the 4064 load on the left is at 2736 fps and 2607 fps for the AR Comp on the right.

168 and 175 SMK with 4064 and AR Comp - 2020-7-25.jpg
 

mercervillerental

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My current 308 load

* Starline Small Rifle Primer Brass
* 41.7gr IMR 4064
* 178gr Hornady ELD Match loaded to 2.810
* Fiocchi Lead Free Small Rifle Primer

Shooting out of my 16" Windham SRC AR10 I get a MV of 2339 and an SD of 9.2. I won't claim to be the best AR10 shooter out there but if I focus (much more so than on my AR15) I can squeeze just under MOA out of it.

Alternatively I also have a nice reduced load of 34gr H4895 with a 168gr SMK that shoots very well with manageable recoil for newbies.
 

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LAW-DOG

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I've got a 24" Krieger barrel on my .308 RPR now and thought I'd try out a Harrell tuner. So, though it's been 380 rounds since I cleaned the barrel, I went out yesterday to see if I could get the tuner to tighten up my groups some for the loads I've been recently firing and was pleased with the result . They're only 3 shot groups, but all under .4 MOA and tell me what I wanted to know. MV for the 4064 load on the left is at 2736 fps and 2607 fps for the AR Comp on the right.

View attachment 7384092
I’ve been running the 208 eldm lately. Last time out I tried lapua brass 3.055 oal, 46.7gr of rl17, .010 off the lands & it was the best group & sd I’ve had yet with the 208gr at 2630 FPS & 5 sd with under .5moa at 100 & just slightly over .5moa at 560. At 560 yards it only used 3.2 mils elevation & .5 mil windage with 10 mph winds 85* weather. At 900 yards used 7 mils elevation & 1 mil windage, group was 6 in. This is the best bullet I’ve tried yet, bucks the wind like no other 308 bullet. In the Winchester brass rl17 47.5gr made 2600 FPS & 46.5gr in lapua made 2600. If I go to 47.7gr in Winchester brass do you think it will go to 2630 FPS like the lapua? What about the pressure in lapua 46.5-46.7gr & Winchester 47.5-47.7gr RL17? Only 1 or 2 cases out of 100 had a slight swipe mark with no other signs.
 

LAW-DOG

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Anyone loading the 178 eldm to Mag. length ?
I load up mag length 178 eldm for my friends repr LWRC. Some I load 2.80in & some 2.86in for his ASC steel mags. I find 42.5-43gr varget does very well. If you are using a semi auto try the asc steel mags, larue ar10, or kac mags & load at 2.86in. I’ve found most of my friends ar10 have shot tighter groups when loaded to 2.86in. I’m going to try h4895 for the 178gr & 168gr Eldm to see how it does around 2.86in in my friends 308 semi autos. Anyone have any h4895 loads for the 168 or 178 eldm?
 

straightshooter1

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I’ve been running the 208 eldm lately. Last time out I tried lapua brass 3.055 oal, 46.7gr of rl17, .010 off the lands & it was the best group & sd I’ve had yet with the 208gr at 2630 FPS & 5 sd with under .5moa at 100 & just slightly over .5moa at 560. At 560 yards it only used 3.2 mils elevation & .5 mil windage with 10 mph winds 85* weather. At 900 yards used 7 mils elevation & 1 mil windage, group was 6 in. This is the best bullet I’ve tried yet, bucks the wind like no other 308 bullet. In the Winchester brass rl17 47.5gr made 2600 FPS & 46.5gr in lapua made 2600. If I go to 47.7gr in Winchester brass do you think it will go to 2630 FPS like the lapua? What about the pressure in lapua 46.5-46.7gr & Winchester 47.5-47.7gr RL17? Only 1 or 2 cases out of 100 had a slight swipe mark with no other signs.
According to QuickLoad, it looks pretty very close, and yes, pressure is high. Take a look at what I'm seeing:

208 ELD Lapua 46.7  RE-17.jpg208 ELD Winchester 47.5  RE-17.jpg
 

LAW-DOG

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According to QuickLoad, it looks pretty very close, and yes, pressure is high. Take a look at what I'm seeing:

View attachment 7393929View attachment 7393930
Looks like rl17 46.7 & 47.7 are little over pressure but not too bad. I might try 46.5 & 47.5 again & see how they compare with sd/es & group size to 46.7 & 47.7. A couple thousand psi over sammi is not too bad & I’m not seeing any signs brass wise so I will see how many reloads I get & how the brass holds up. I felt like I was near max but not too far past what’s acceptable. My rock creek 24in 5r is grouping well with the rl17 & 208eldm. This combo is bucking the wind better than 178 eldm or 185 jug that I’ve tried. I’m going to have to try it out around 1200-1500 yards. I wish my range went past 900 because I have to travel farther to good blm land to shoot at longer distances. Tks for the help with the quickload, I wish I could use it but I only have the iPad & iPhone now. I might have to get a windows laptop just for quickload
 

rockchalk06

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I'm going to be working up a load for my Savage FCP 10 soon and had some questions. Barrel is 24" 10 twist.

I want to start with 175 grain and Varget. Interested to see if anyone has use the RDF's in this length/twist rate with success. SMK's in Federal Match have done very well and I will be working these as well.
 
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6MT

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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote "2.0"
Barrel length and twist: 28" 1:9" Krieger (+.170" free bore)
Projectile brand, model and weight: Berger Juggernaught 185gr
Powder brand and weight: D4064SSC 44.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No pressure signs
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: Not Applicable (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.360"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.007"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2662fps ES 9 SD 3.4 (5 shots)
Outside temperature: 15c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.3 KPA, 40% RH



According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1250m. My load development started at 40.5gr. It seems that the faster the Juggernaught is pushed, the more accurate it gets (with my rifle). The best result was with the 44.0gr charge (.375moa at 186m/204 yards). There is lots of "space" left in the case because of how far out the bullet is seated. So the load above is far from a compressed load. I will see how it performs at a kilometre and beyond. And then I might up the charge to see if I can reach my goal of 2700fps. And because this is a brand new barrel, it should get faster after a few hundred rounds or so. We'll see just how accurate it is too.
 
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straightshooter1

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Caliber: .308win
Rifle brand: PGWdti
Rifle Model: Coyote "2.0"
Barrel length and twist: 28" 1:9" Krieger (+.170" free bore)
Projectile brand, model and weight: Berger Juggernaught 185gr
Powder brand and weight: D4064SSC 44.0gr
LOAD CONSIDERED HOT OR CLOSE TO MAX: No pressure signs
Primers: CCI BR-2
Coal: Not Applicable (too long to mag feed)
Ogive length (CBTO): 2.360"
Brass: Lapua
Brass trim length: 2.007"
Ogive distance to lands: .010"
Velocity (average): 2662fps ES 9 SD 3.4 (5 shots)
Outside temperature: 15c
Wind and direction: N/A
Barometric pressure and other relevant data: 792m ASL, 101.3 KPA, 40% RH



According to iSnipe, this load transitions just over 1250m. My load development started at 40.5gr. It seems that the faster the Juggernaught is pushed, the more accurate it gets (with my rifle). The best result was with the 44.0gr charge (.375moa at 186m/204 yards). There is lots of "space" left in the case because of how far out the bullet is seated. So the load above is far from a compressed load. I will see how it performs at a kilometre and beyond. And then I might up the charge to see if I can reach my goal of 2700fps. And because this is a brand new barrel, it should get faster after a few hundred rounds or so. We'll see just how accurate it is too.
Am curious, which comparator tool do you use to measure your CBTO?

I ask as I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Body and when I measure my Berger 185 Jugs I get a CBTO of 2.303 . . . ~.057" less than you. So, though your cartridges don't fit your mag, what is your COAL?

44 grs of 4064 fills the .308 case to 103% of capacity with a COAL measuring ~ 2.957" (bullet OAL average ~1.354"). Yeah, it looks like this powder load is putting you right at SAAMI max pressure and it appears you should be able to hit that 2700 fps . . . especially in warmer climates. :cool:

At 40.9 gr of 4064 I was able to get a good accuracy node with MV at 2560 fps from my 24" 1:10 Krieger barrel that has just over 3700 rounds fired in it . I've thought about going to the next higher node and it looks like that 44.0 gr is about right.
 
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6MT

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Am curious, which comparator tool do you use to measure your CBTO?

I ask as I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Body and when I measure my Berger 185 Jugs I get a CBTO of 2.303 . . . ~.057" less than you. So, though your cartridges don't fit your mag, what is your COAL?

44 grs of 4064 fills the .308 case to 103% of capacity with a COAL measuring ~ 2.957" (bullet OAL average ~1.354"). Yeah, it looks like this powder load is putting you right at SAAMI max pressure and it appears you should be able to hit that 2700 fps . . . especially in warmer climates. :cool:

At 40.9 gr of 4064 I was able to get a good accuracy node with MV at 2560 fps from my 24" 1:10 Krieger barrel that has just over 3700 rounds fired in it . I've thought about going to the next higher node and it looks like that 44.0 gr is about right.
Yeah, the magazine is useless to load from. This rifle is definitely a single loader. I use the Hornady comparator. I really don't know or care what the COAL is. The important measurement is the CBTO. I know that this load is on the long side. Since I had the chamber throated +.170", there's lots of room in the case for extra powder. One of the main things that the .308win round is lacking is case capacity. To push that 185gr bullet fast enough, you need that extra bit of capacity.
 

straightshooter1

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Yeah, the magazine is useless to load from. This rifle is definitely a single loader. I use the Hornady comparator. I really don't know or care what the COAL is. The important measurement is the CBTO. I know that this load is on the long side. Since I had the chamber throated +.170", there's lots of room in the case for extra powder. One of the main things that the .308win round is lacking is case capacity. To push that 185gr bullet fast enough, you need that extra bit of capacity.
Yes, agree that the important measurement is the CBTO. But because that measurement is a comparative measurement given variations in tools that people use, I was asking about your COAL as that just helps with getting a better idea relatively with respects to your case dimensions compared to mine. That you also use a Hordady comparator, I'm really puzzled why I my CBTO measurement is .057 different than yours for a Berger 185 Jug. 🤷‍♂️ That's a huge difference. :eek: I know bullets can have significant variation in their BTO's, particularly from lot to lot, but haven't seen that in any Berger products.

I also load on the long side to help with that increasing case capacity, and I single load mine as well. Though I do have a mag that'll accommodate a cartridge out to a COAL of 2.96
 

6MT

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Yes, agree that the important measurement is the CBTO. But because that measurement is a comparative measurement given variations in tools that people use, I was asking about your COAL as that just helps with getting a better idea relatively with respects to your case dimensions compared to mine. That you also use a Hordady comparator, I'm really puzzled why I my CBTO measurement is .057 different than yours for a Berger 185 Jug. 🤷‍♂️ That's a huge difference. :eek: I know bullets can have significant variation in their BTO's, particularly from lot to lot, but haven't seen that in any Berger products.

I also load on the long side to help with that increasing case capacity, and I single load mine as well. Though I do have a mag that'll accommodate a cartridge out to a COAL of 2.96
Fair enough. I'll measure the COAL when I get home tonight. I'll post it here. One of the reasons that my CBTO measurement is longer then yours is probably due to the +.170" throat. I also had a great slow node. During barrel break-in I used a 39.0gr charge which showed 1/3moa accuracy. Unfortunately, it was only 2330fps. That won't get you too far down range (at least where I want it to go).
 
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straightshooter1

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Fair enough. I'll measure the COAL when I get home tonight. I'll post it here. One of the reasons that my CBTO measurement is longer then yours is probably due to the +.170" throat. I also had a great slow node. During barrel break-in I used a 39.0gr charge which showed 1/3moa accuracy. Unfortunately, it was only 2330fps. That won't get you too far down range (at least where I want it to go).
My Krieger drop in barrel for my RPR has a free bore at .220 (chamber measures 2.050). And my CBTO is 2.270 with the Berger 185 touching (COAL = 2.975).

Looking forward to seeing what that COAL is. :)
 
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LAW-DOG

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I noticed shooting the 208gr eldm at 2600fps 24in Rock creek 1:11.25 5r 3.055 .010 off with RL17 that they shoot better groups with the Winchester brass vs lapua. With 47.5gr of RL17 in Winchester brass it shoots sub .5 moa 100yd site in but 46.5gr in lapua just won’t group well with both loads at 2600 FPS. When the wind gets bad this 208gr beats every other 308 bullet I have tried. One thing I’m still working on is the bc out of a 24in 1:11.25 at 2600. Berger twist calculator shows that the .690 bc drops to .653 bc with 1.33 stability. JBM calculator shows 1.55 with no BC loss. Where I’m shooting with all the wind shifts it’s not easy to figure out which is correct.
 

straightshooter1

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I noticed shooting the 208gr eldm at 2600fps 24in Rock creek 1:11.25 5r 3.055 .010 off with RL17 that they shoot better groups with the Winchester brass vs lapua. With 47.5gr of RL17 in Winchester brass it shoots sub .5 moa 100yd site in but 46.5gr in lapua just won’t group well with both loads at 2600 FPS. When the wind gets bad this 208gr beats every other 308 bullet I have tried. One thing I’m still working on is the bc out of a 24in 1:11.25 at 2600. Berger twist calculator shows that the .690 bc drops to .653 bc with 1.33 stability. JBM calculator shows 1.55 with no BC loss. Where I’m shooting with all the wind shifts it’s not easy to figure out which is correct.
While MV and other numbers can be virtually the same (like barrel time and pressure), you might have a completely different harmonic. This could be due to a difference in how the bullet is being gripped as Winchester brass has thinner walls than Lapua, which one can compensate for to some degree in adjusting the neck tension accordingly. . .

. . . just gotta realize the Winchester brass and Lapua brass are apples and oranges. ;)
 

LAW-DOG

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While MV and other numbers can be virtually the same (like barrel time and pressure), you might have a completely different harmonic. This could be due to a difference in how the bullet is being gripped as Winchester brass has thinner walls than Lapua, which one can compensate for to some degree in adjusting the neck tension accordingly. . .

. . . just gotta realize the Winchester brass and Lapua brass are apples and oranges. ;)
I have different sizing dies honed for Winchester brass & lapua then use a mandrel so the neck tension is perfect. If you use a Forster die on Winchester brass a lot of times it won’t even push the necks in, that’s how thin the Winchester brass necks are. Luckily my Redding sizing die pushes the Winchester necks to .304 then I use a mandrel for to make them .306. My Forster die was honed to push lapua necks to .304 & use the same mandrel to get .306. I think it might be the case capacity that might make the pressure up in the lapua with rl17 208gr eld that just doesn’t work as well as the Winchester for this combo. Shooting cfe 46gr with 168gr eld in lapua gets me better results than the Winchester. I’m getting really good results with the Winchester rl17 208gr eldm so I’m not worried about trying to get the lapua too work. I’m more worried the what the bc is out of my 24in 1:11.25 barrel. JBM calculator says it’s 1.55 & that means no BC loss but Berger calculator says I’m 1.33 at .653bc down from .690. So I think I might have to try shooting groups at 600 & 900 yards using .653 bc & .690bc & see which is best
 

straightshooter1

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89
AZ
I have different sizing dies honed for Winchester brass & lapua then use a mandrel so the neck tension is perfect. If you use a Forster die on Winchester brass a lot of times it won’t even push the necks in, that’s how thin the Winchester brass necks are. Luckily my Redding sizing die pushes the Winchester necks to .304 then I use a mandrel for to make them .306. My Forster die was honed to push lapua necks to .304 & use the same mandrel to get .306. I think it might be the case capacity that might make the pressure up in the lapua with rl17 208gr eld that just doesn’t work as well as the Winchester for this combo. Shooting cfe 46gr with 168gr eld in lapua gets me better results than the Winchester. I’m getting really good results with the Winchester rl17 208gr eldm so I’m not worried about trying to get the lapua too work. I’m more worried the what the bc is out of my 24in 1:11.25 barrel. JBM calculator says it’s 1.55 & that means no BC loss but Berger calculator says I’m 1.33 at .653bc down from .690. So I think I might have to try shooting groups at 600 & 900 yards using .653 bc & .690bc & see which is best
Yeah, there's only so much you can do with calculations, then one needs to get the see what real world results produce. :cool:
 
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