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.308 Winchester

2.928 COAL ? Will they work in a mag. What Mag. and what weapon ??
Thank you
Works in my Alpha mag (good up to 2.975) for my RPR. Am not sure they're made anymore, but there are others:

 
My 169gr load is 42.5gr H4895 @ 2.900". 2800fps out of a 24" Proof. AW mags in an AI. Lapua SRP brass.
 
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My 169gr load is 42.5gr H4895 @ 2.900". 2800fps out of a 24" Proof. AW mags in an AI. Lapua SRP brass.

I shot lots and lots of 41.5 H4895 LC brass 175smk 2.810" that powder is great in 308. The 169s fly flatter but they still get grabbed by the wind we had crazy gusts the other day from 5-25mph shit was all over the place.
 
I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.
 
I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.
What did you use to determine your bushing size's for your neck turned brass ?
 
I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.
For all the .308 Federal brass that I've used have been thicker than my Lapua brass. Best course to take would be to measure the brass he has, then decide on which bushings to use to get the desired neck tension. Whether Federal or Lapua brass, there can be significant variations from one lot of brass to the next, which is one reason I like to turn my necks for my no-turn chambers. Of course, he can always get a set of bushings to handle the variances.
 
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I guess I did say "any help appreciated" so thank you to the above responders, but I'm looking for a number or numbers of the size(s) of neck bushing(s) used to neck size .308 Win necks (like .326" or .330"). Is there anyone in .308-land that knows the size of their neck resizing and/or neck resizing bushings?
 
When I used Lapua brass I used a .335 or .336 bushing. Been a long time with Federal but .333 is sticking in my brain. The Winchester/Black Hills is a .331.
 
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Reloading mixed head stamp 308 is a pain in the ass. I use a Redding full length bushing die with a 335 bushing for lake City and Lapua brass. But I also load mixed head stamp on a Dillon. Because federal is pretty shitty brass, I just throw it in with all the other random range pickup crapola. The best technique I have found for that junk is to oversize it all with neck only size die, by followed by a mandrel to set bullet tension from the inside. That is a lot more universal and doesn't require a collection of bespoke bushings for every different manufacturer of brass.
 
Rimfire ? Are you saying that even FGMM brass is "pretty shitty" brass ?
" Because federal is pretty shitty brass"
 
Rimfire ? Are you saying that even FGMM brass is "pretty shitty" brass ?
" Because federal is pretty shitty brass"
Yes. I wouldn't confuse the accuracy of factory federal gold medal match ammo with a quality of the brass. Which is sounds like what you're getting at. I've gotten good accuracy out of some lower quality brass but it doesn't hold up. It's neck thickness is annoying. Primer pockets, loosen etc.
 
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I shoot lots of fc brass it’s good stuff for plinking and steel. Small base sized with expander ball turned down a little bit to not work the necks as much. Winchester commercial has been more accurate for me though.
 
RimfireJ and Rob01 - thanks for the bushing values.
RimfireJ: I have found that the .30 cal. mandrels I have give more neck tension than I have found to be optimal. What is the diameter of the mandrel you use, and where is it from?
 
RimfireJ and Rob01 - thanks for the bushing values.
RimfireJ: I have found that the .30 cal. mandrels I have give more neck tension than I have found to be optimal. What is the diameter of the mandrel you use, and where is it from?
It's a Lyman .30 cal "M" die. The mandrel measures .306". I sized a couple of different range pickup, once-fired head stamps with a neck only sizer(button removed) and then ran the mandrel through them. Measured the neck diameter and then seated a bullet and measured. Left and right columns.
1000005750.jpg

Looks like I need to take a thou off that mandrel with some sandpaper.

Hope that helps
 
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I have found that the .30 cal. mandrels I have give more neck tension than I have found to be optimal.
If your brass has been fired a lot without annealing it could be experiencing some spring back
 
For 308W I just use a Mighty Armory FL die with button removed for everything. Followed with a 21st Century .3065 mandrel using Imperial dry neck lube (graphite). The mandrel actually mics out at .3061

I've been using the same method as above for 6.5C & 223 even though I've got Redding S dies. Seems like the easy button when dealing with a bunch of head stamps.

I do anneal each loading & I keep all like head stamps in batches. I'm sure this works the necks on some brass a little more than bushing would, but I've yet to split a neck before loosing the primer pocket.

Also agree that the Federal GM308 brass is softer & not as durable. Been using the Federal for AR loads. Aguila brass I just leave that shit at the range.
In the bolt gun I've been running RWS, Norma, & Lapua LRP. Have a batch of 220 x Ruag all prepped to try.
 
If your brass has been fired a lot without annealing it could be experiencing some spring back
Interesting observation on spring back too. Use a bushing and the spring back goes outwards. Use a mandrel and the spring back goes inwards...
 
Yes. I wouldn't confuse the accuracy of factory federal gold medal match ammo with a quality of the brass. Which is sounds like what you're getting at. I've gotten good accuracy out of some lower quality brass but it doesn't hold up. It's neck thickness is annoying. Primer pockets, loosen etc.
Dissecting 168FGMM to see what makes it tic I came upon three very consistent values of the ammo. Two of which direct measurements and the third some relative value. So, the CBTO and the shoulders were spot on with only .002" variance on the CBTO and .001 on the shoulders. The neck tension was LIGHT. This was a relative measurement because I loaded bullets to match the "smack out" by a kinetic bullet puller. FGMM factory bullets released with one smack of the puller. To match that first smack with reloads, in virgin brass, I had to be .001" possibly .0015" that's the relative measurement downfall, but either way works for the shit I do.
 
I have been precision reloading for decades for a wide variety of cartridges and rifle platforms and have found in virually all cases precision has been maximized with minimal neck tension. I resize necks until the bullets can be moved by hand, then tighten up .001". This is enough even for gas guns. I also pay attention to the surface of the inside of the necks, cleaning them with a light rotating bronze brush, and have been experimenting with lanolin and moly coating of the inside of necks as well.
 
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I have been precision reloading for decades for a wide variety of cartridges and rifle platforms and have found in virually all cases precision has been maximized with minimal neck tension. I resize necks until the bullets can be moved by hand, then tighten up .001". This is enough even for gas guns. I also pay attention to the surface of the inside of the necks, cleaning them with a light rotating bronze brush, and have been experimenting with lanolin and moly coating of the inside of necks as well.
You know what you're doing. I experimented with wet & dry case neck lube and found "wet" case lube opened up the groups. Dry graphite I couldn't see a just noticeable difference. I alcohol swab the fired necks to rid of any case lube from the mandrel and use the remaining fired residue for the cold weld preventative.

I recently saw an experiment where a guy made up his own test equipment and measure the force it took to release a bullet from the case neck using various neck tensions. .0005 still required 46ftlbs, .001-.002 required 140ftlbs with anything above .002 diminished returns. It was a very limited sample set IIRC. Still intriguing.
 
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I use .002" of neck tension for everything. Enough to make sure it doesn't move but not enough to effect accuracy. Works for me.
 
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Started some load development on a few high BC 308W loads light/heavy, to see how they compare.

There's not a lot of data out there for either of these 2 powders in 308.

This was just trying to find powder charges.

Maybe @straightshooter1 would be willing to check these loads in Quick load for me.

For any one reading this. These loads were built in GRT for my barrel, brass, action. I have a lot off data with these powders that has been worked up to in my rifle. Do not assume these will be safe in your gun. GRT is often pretty far off in their speed predictions. Some hammer forged barrels (Tika/Ruger) are 150fps slower for same length & will pressure out much sooner.

They are all safe according to GRT in my rifle, but up near top end. That said GRT doesn't always agree with quick load from what I've seen.

26" PVA Osprey barrel 10T
Berger 200.2X (.328 G7) Bullet oal 1.508" all rounds loaded @ 2.960" oal/ 2.175" BTO using Hornady comparator. Jump was -.064
RWS 3 x fired LRP brass. Fired H20 avg 55.62 measured on FX120
GM215 magnum primers

Alliant RL15.5
42.1 - 2522 - SD 8.7
42.4 - 2532 - SD 4.4
42.7 - 2547 - SD 4.0 * Shot best .7 primer slightly flat/ no cratering & no other pressure signs. Seating depth @ this charge.

Per GRT I should be able to reach 2599 with RL15.5 at that load length.

Lever Evolution only shot 1 charge. Same brass & primer as above.
43.4 x 6 = 2560 - SD3.6 ES 9.1
No pressure signs with this load. Per GRT node #5 is 2618 & within pmax limit
re-shoot 43.4 with seating depth test.

For the lightweight high BC option.
Warner Flatline 160 (G7 .278) bullet oal 1.390" All rounds loaded 2.954" oal (-.018 jump) 2.243 BTO
Norma virgin brass. Once fired in this chamber H20 avg 55.89
GM215 Mag primers

Lever Evolution
47.4 - 3002 - SD 5.8 / .85" group / GRT prediction 2942fps with nodes at 2942 & 2989
47.8 - 3024 - SD 10.4 / .93" group
48.2 - 3055 - SD15.1/ group opened & showing pressure (flat primers). GRT prediction 2989

47.4 shot best & I'd like to stay under max pressure for Lever since it's more temp sensitive.

Will try seating depth test with these at 47.3gr @ -.020, -.040, -.060, & -.080

Attached is the Warner 160FL load data sheet. Lever is not on the list, but CFE223 is. IME lever is a little more forgiving on top end loads than CFE223. Lever usually gives a little more velocity, other wise they are similar.

It's also noteworthy that Lever, contrary to it's reputation, burns super clean in all the above 308 loads.
 

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Started some load development on a few high BC 308W loads light/heavy, to see how they compare.

There's not a lot of data out there for either of these 2 powders in 308.

This was just trying to find powder charges.

Maybe @straightshooter1 would be willing to check these loads in Quick load for me.

For any one reading this. These loads were built in GRT for my barrel, brass, action. I have a lot off data with these powders that has been worked up to in my rifle. Do not assume these will be safe in your gun. GRT is often pretty far off in their speed predictions. Some hammer forged barrels (Tika/Ruger) are 150fps slower for same length & will pressure out much sooner.

They are all safe according to GRT in my rifle, but up near top end. That said GRT doesn't always agree with quick load from what I've seen.

26" PVA Osprey barrel 10T
Berger 200.2X (.328 G7) Bullet oal 1.508" all rounds loaded @ 2.960" oal/ 2.175" BTO using Hornady comparator. Jump was -.064
RWS 3 x fired LRP brass. Fired H20 avg 55.62 measured on FX120
GM215 magnum primers

Alliant RL15.5
42.1 - 2522 - SD 8.7
42.4 - 2532 - SD 4.4
42.7 - 2547 - SD 4.0 * Shot best .7 primer slightly flat/ no cratering & no other pressure signs. Seating depth @ this charge.

Per GRT I should be able to reach 2599 with RL15.5 at that load length.

Lever Evolution only shot 1 charge. Same brass & primer as above.
43.4 x 6 = 2560 - SD3.6 ES 9.1
No pressure signs with this load. Per GRT node #5 is 2618 & within pmax limit
re-shoot 43.4 with seating depth test.

For the lightweight high BC option.
Warner Flatline 160 (G7 .278) bullet oal 1.390" All rounds loaded 2.954" oal (-.018 jump) 2.243 BTO
Norma virgin brass. Once fired in this chamber H20 avg 55.89
GM215 Mag primers

Lever Evolution
47.4 - 3002 - SD 5.8 / .85" group / GRT prediction 2942fps with nodes at 2942 & 2989
47.8 - 3024 - SD 10.4 / .93" group
48.2 - 3055 - SD15.1/ group opened & showing pressure (flat primers). GRT prediction 2989

47.4 shot best & I'd like to stay under max pressure for Lever since it's more temp sensitive.

Will try seating depth test with these at 47.3gr @ -.020, -.040, -.060, & -.080

Attached is the Warner 160FL load data sheet. Lever is not on the list, but CFE223 is. IME lever is a little more forgiving on top end loads than CFE223. Lever usually gives a little more velocity, other wise they are similar.

It's also noteworthy that Lever, contrary to it's reputation, burns super clean in all the above 308 loads.
Here you go . . . (note I used QL's default burn rate, but use temperature of 50°F to get the velocities you showed):

257Max, 26in, RL-15.5,Berger 200.20X.jpg


257Max, 26in, RL-15.5, Berger 200.20X.jpg
 
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Here you go . . . (note I used QL's default burn rate, but use temperature of 50°F to get the velocities you showed):

View attachment 8286361

View attachment 8286362
Thanks Straight Shooter. Looks like Quick load agrees with GRT pretty well for the 15.5.

Does quick load have Lever? GRT is all over the map with lever. Often Lever way over performs the GRT prediction as in this case with the Warners.
I'm assuming when this happens the pressure is tracking with speed for the most part.
 
Anyone have pet loads for alpha SRP brass, 175 SMK’s and Varget? I’m running 42.5gr Varget in LRP Lapua brass getting 2700fps and would like to stay in that range if possible.
 
Anyone have pet loads for alpha SRP brass, 175 SMK’s and Varget? I’m running 42.5gr Varget in LRP Lapua brass getting 2700fps and would like to stay in that range if possible.
Alpha is about the only 308 brass I don't have.
I'd knock it down to 41.5 & shoot a few. Then measure fire case H20 to compare to whatever brass you've been using.
Depends a lot on the rifle system also. A SRP will handle a little hotter load If & big if your firing pin fit is small & or a tight fit in the bolt.
AI with large pin will handle less pressure using a SRP than LRP from what I've seen.
 
virgin SRP alpha brass
CCI 450
42.5gr varget
175 SMK
2.049 CBTO (have to check and will update when I get home, puts me at 20k off)

This combo in a 26” lilja 3 groove barrel yields 2665fps with an sd of 5.9 over 19 shots.


IMG_3412.png
 
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Where are people getting LRPs these days? Also, side note. I haven't been on SH for about 6 years. Let me know if I'm not supposed to be posting certain things.
 
Where are people getting LRPs these days? Also, side note. I haven't been on SH for about 6 years. Let me know if I'm not supposed to be posting certain things.
Look at the "powder in stock" thread, it includes primers.
What has changes in the last few years is that you must have a supporter account to post WTB or for sale items. You can still reply to and purchase items, just can't post your stuff without supporter account.
 
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Where are people getting LRPs these days? Also, side note. I haven't been on SH for about 6 years. Let me know if I'm not supposed to be posting certain things.
I picked up 800 at Sportsman's Warehouse about 2 days ago ...they go fast I got the last 1000 box, the lmit, as the other guy only wanted 2 boxes of 100.
 
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Talking about Varget in the 308 win 16" ...the most horrible velocity S/D, I have ever seen with any powder, ...ever, at 49.5 S/D for 5 shots. Happened a few weeks ago. Tried the next 5 after rechecking things, and that string worse at 54.6 S/D with 5 shots of weighed Varget powder. So I shot a 5 shot string with PP 2000 MR and it was 3.7 S/D. I have been noticing bad S/ D strings with my current lot of Varget, but this is the worst. I have used this powder for may years, and never experienced this...has anyone else experienced this problem with current or past lots of Varget? For me it has moved back from the top pick... this is just blasting powder.
 

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Talking about Varget in the 308 win 16" ...the most horrible velocity S/D, I have ever seen with any powder, ...ever, at 49.5 S/D for 5 shots. Happened a few weeks ago. Tried the next 5 after rechecking things, and that string worse at 54.6 S/D with 5 shots of weighed Varget powder. So I shot a 5 shot string with PP 2000 MR and it was 3.7 S/D. I have been noticing bad S/ D strings with my current lot of Varget, but this is the worst. I have used this powder for may years, and never experienced this...has anyone else experienced this problem with current or past lots of Varget? For me it has moved back from the top pick... this is just blasting powder.

Cartridge and situation dependent sometimes man. I feel you though.

I have used the same canister of Varget for my 6.5x47 and .223 load development. Got single digit SDs in the x47, and 3 times that in the .223. Using Lapua brass in the x47 and Starline .223 - but before we poo poo the Starline brass, I weighed, measured, and then did H2O capacity on the Starline and it was pretty damn consistent. *For the record though, my .223 Varget loads were pretty accurate at 100...just crap ES and SD.

Sometimes even the most sure thing isn't in a particular barrel.
 
As a newbie to both the Forum and reloading, I would like to consult forum members on a few issues related to reloading the 308.
First of all, I am an amateur shooter, so far shooting rather with calibers: 7.62x54r, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 - using factory ammunition.
By chance, quite fortunately I recently bought a Russian Izhmash Record-1-308 rifle in .308 Win caliber. This is my first encounter with that caliber. Factory ammo is quite expensive ( I live in Europe, EU, Poland ), after shooting I am left with a factory shells, so I thought that I might try to use them and reload .308 for my rifle. Because the scale of reloading was to be rather small – after a net study and watched several YouTube videos on reloading ( I know now, it is not enough, and with a such tiny background I should not take that step – but it is too late ) – I bought a Lee Loader, thinking that it would be an inexpensive way to get a cheaper ammo.
And with a Lee Loader in one hand and a hammer in the other I’m stuck :rolleyes:
I did not prepare the classic “ladder” of powder charges – I just focused on one, based on GRT Reloading software callculation. The first attempt to prepare ammunition, with only one powder charge selected, brought me 5-shots group of the size of 0,85 MOA at 100m. Not bad but not very good either. The problem is that having almost no knowledge of reloading, now I don't know if I should increase or decrease the powder load to make the group even tighter.
Working with a Lee Loader is not an easy task, so before I start to use the hammer again I'd like to know at least the direction - incerase or decrease the powder load?
Parameters: bullet : Hornady ELD-M 178gr, powder Lovex 73.6 - an equivalent let's say of Accurate 2520 - load : 41,15 gr, COAL : 72 mm = 2,83 inch. Shooting distance : 100 m, rifle rested on bipod, optics : PS-07 - magnification x7
View attachment 8119661

GRT software data for my "load": pressure : 3200 bar, muzzle velocity : 778 m/s, energy : 3495 J.

The rifle : Izhmash Record-1-308, cal. 308 Win, barrel : 650 mm, barrel twist 320 mm.
View attachment 8119662
I would play with seating depth first. Watch Eric Cortinas video on finding the lands. Super cool rifle and welcome.
 
My 1st time posting but been following for months. I am doing load development for a new to me 308 build. Defiance Deviant with Benchmark barrel. In process of seating an testing clambering, I am seeing light scoring on the 178 ELDs at 2.88 COL. At 2.80, no scoring. First I thought bolt marks, but it did it on first round from mag, but not when I hand feed. I am guessing just rubbing as it transitions the lift due to longer length. Any thought are appreciated.
20231220_152540.jpg
 
My 1st time posting but been following for months. I am doing load development for a new to me 308 build. Defiance Deviant with Benchmark barrel. In process of seating an testing clambering, I am seeing light scoring on the 178 ELDs at 2.88 COL. At 2.80, no scoring. First I thought bolt marks, but it did it on first round from mag, but not when I hand feed. I am guessing just rubbing as it transitions the lift due to longer length. Any thought are appreciated. View attachment 8301816
Never seen anything like it!...Why are there 2 shoulders on the brass of the reloaded cases?
You need to stop and investigate.... right dies? bad chamber?
 
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Scratches or striations appear to start near if not on the bullet's tip and graduate beyond the Ogive ,that's chamber defect or something's embedded in your chamber and lands . IMO . I'd investigate that ASAP .
 
So ran a bunch of wet patches (Hoppes No9) and brushes, both rifling and in chamber. Before dry patching. Ran another round and marking is almost gone, so you folks were right. I am going to attack it again in the morning. I am now questioning if I cleaned it after last outing.
 
I am reloading some Sierra match kings in 220 gr. I'm sitting at 2.927 OAL. There is lots of space and the bullet narrows before my 168s. Is there any safety concerns to consider. This is not a compressed load. I'm wanting to run 38 grains of imr 4064. I'd also like to use my 4895. Barrel twist rate os 1 to 10 so it is fast enough to run a 220.

This will be out of a 700 aac SD tactical -20" barrel.
 
I am reloading some Sierra match kings in 220 gr. I'm sitting at 2.927 OAL. There is lots of space and the bullet narrows before my 168s. Is there any safety concerns to consider. This is not a compressed load. I'm wanting to run 38 grains of imr 4064. I'd also like to use my 4895. Barrel twist rate os 1 to 10 so it is fast enough to run a 220.

This will be out of a 700 aac SD tactical -20" barrel.
38 grs IMR-4064 behind that 220 gr pill should be plenty safe, even in higher temperatures . . . though it appears in my QL that pressure is very close to max. For H-4895, it looks like you might need 40grs to get an equivalent performance as the 38 grs of IMR-4064.
 
I am reloading some Sierra match kings in 220 gr. I'm sitting at 2.927 OAL. There is lots of space and the bullet narrows before my 168s. Is there any safety concerns to consider. This is not a compressed load. I'm wanting to run 38 grains of imr 4064. I'd also like to use my 4895. Barrel twist rate os 1 to 10 so it is fast enough to run a 220.

This will be out of a 700 aac SD tactical -20" barrel.

Why 220s? The only data I've seen is for subsonic loads. Those are what I use in my 300 PRC with I think 78gr of H1000 or some other giant pile of powder.

The heaviest I've gone in 308 was 190smk/208amax using 41-41.5 grains of varget seated long maybe 2.83-2.85 it's been awhile.
 
I have used everything from 100 gr to 250 Atip in 308 Win.
For LR I prefer 200 gr to 230 gr match, 9 and 8 twist barrels. My barrels are 16" to 30", 12, 11.25, 10, 9, & 8, twists, auto & bolt. A 308 200 can connect at 3000 yds, as seen on video, longer than most will ever try, with 200 gr bullets.
I shoot 208 eldm at 2442 fps in a 16" AR 10, 308. The 18" & 16" AR 10s shoot close to the same speed and have shot 250 Atips out of them for fun at 2219 fps and 225 ELDM around 2450 fps. The twist is too slow for the 250 gr except short range.
I find the in 308 a 22" bolt bolt gun 9 twist to be the most versatile 7.5 lbs shooting 230 SMK 2550 fps with good accuracy, or 200 gr SMK at 2740 fps. The heavy Aluminum chassis Bartleins 30" 8 twist 308 is best suited for LR prone shooting with 200 to 230 gr bullets, velocities 2856 fps for the 200 & 2620 fps for 230, 2675 fps for 225 gr.
To get the velocity up to 2500 fps for the 250 Atip would require even longer throated barrel, but allow too much jump for the lighter bullets. But it will do 2400 now .
Heavy bullets high BC bullets 200 grs and above plus new powders bring new life to the 308 Win...not to mention SS hybrid case can be formed for 80,000 psi experience.
For more standard loads the new 169 gr and 177 gr SMK higher BC and shoot very well in the 6 lb 3 oz 16" barreled 308 AR 10, lighter than most AR 15s, good for about 1200 yds.
 
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Personally can't see much point in loading anything heavier than 178 gr. in a .308 . Yet I'm not ringing steel at 1200 + yd. either ,so as the saying goes whatever floats one's boat . IF I go for REAL distance for intended purpose , I step up to My 285 gr. .338 LM load .

150, 155, 165,168 and occasionally ELD 178's , feed My 7.62x51mm weapons . IMO 30-06 has it's chamber full with flinging 220 gr. bullets .
 
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