- Thread starter Two Shoes
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which 4064 is better for 168's and/or 175's, out of a 20" barrel
imr? or accurate?
imr? or accurate?
Both are fine
Both have worked well for me. They're not interchangeable as the Accurate is a faster burning powder and I've gotten more velocity with more case fill without over pressure. So, if you're trying to get more velocity out of that 20" barrel, I'd suggest the Accurate 4064. I think IMR-4064 is a little more temperature stable, but I haven't notice that to be much of an issue.
Im sitting on 6lbs of Accurate that I got during covid, usually I use 4064 so Im keen to hear your results!
For my ACC 4064, I loaded 45.0 grs to push 168 SMK's with a COAL of 2.880, which for my chamber was at .007 off the lands. Initial 5 rounds I got a group of .295 MOA and a Group Mean of .143". MV: 2748 fps with an ES: 30, SD: 14.7, ambient temperature at 51°F. With 30 rounds fired and chronoed, group of .525 MOA and Group Mean of .230 with an MV: 2717 fps with an ES: 30, SD: 8.6. ambient temperature at 47°F.
This is out of an RPR with a 26" Krieger heavy barrel.
I have an old box which is probably 10 years old that is 1.203-1.215
Don’t know if you can decipher the lot number or date of mfg.
I just happened to crack it open yesterday.
Others on this forum have found the same length as me.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bullet-length-168-smk-vs-175-smk.6985397/post-8288596
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Good info, but I believe he was asking about the new S169MK, not the old S168MK. And if you read on, he actually received a box of 155s.
Your a good man Monte.
CCI 400s have a softer cup, Ive never used them in 308, I'm sure they would work fine but if you were running a hotter load they may start showing pressure signs sooner than other primers. Id go 450s or whatever other brand of mag primers you can find.
CCI 400's have worked well for me in my .308, though I've not done any shooting below 45°F. I've used the 450's some too, but don't find any need to. If one is shooting in really cold temperatures, I'd go with the 450's.
Thanks,
I saw that he received 155gr SMK's but I must have been half asleep because I failed to notice that it was 169gr SMK's and not 168gr SMK's.
I wasn't even aware that 169gr SMK's existed.
I typically use CCI BR-4 or Federal Gold Medal GM205M
Anyone with pet loads for the older 155 sierra palmas? I found some at a local gun store for 12$ a box. Have fc and winchester brass, varget, h4895, imr 4320 powders.
The 169s exist and they are magical, like a 175smk but fly better in the wind. Was comparing them to 175noslers which are dogshit imho too much weight and length variations. The nosler 1sts are almost as good as sierra 2nds.
The 169s exist and they are magical, like a 175smk but fly better in the wind. Was comparing them to 175noslers which are dogshit imho too much weight and length variations. The nosler 1sts are almost as good as sierra 2nds.
Nope check weights to see if they are consistent? The nosier custom comp 175 I had were almost a grain up and down.
Agree.
Now you gotta try the 177 SMK's
Wanted to try those when midway had them as seconds, that was how I got the 169s, they sold out quick though.
My 175 midway seconds are 1/2-3/4 MOA which is good on steel if the wind cooperates:
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Winchester brass and Varget are a very good combination with those bullets. 46-47 gn was a pretty common competitive load, running 2950-3000+ fps from a 30" Palma barrel.
A lot depends on what you have for a chamber - short throated, like the '95 Palma (0.050" FB), or a little longer, like the Obermeyer or others. And what kind of land/groove diameter - back in that bullet's hey-day, stupidly tight bores - like .298/.304 - were fairly common in Palma rifles. That was more a legacy thing from back when the actual Palma matches were shot using issue ammo, provided by the host country - and the shite Radway-Green bullets that the UK used were almost criminally undersized. Krieger made tighter bores specifically for that reason, so they really cemented their spot in LR target shooting for a long damn time. Also held back the use of heavy bullets for quite a while, because it's pretty hard to ram-rod a heavy (with the long-ass bearing surface designs of the time) through that small of a hole without hitting pressure fast and hard.
If you have a relatively modern chamber design, and can seat the bullets out a tad, plus having a more reasonable land/groove diameter like .304/.307... the bullets will still shoot very, very well, but you may find you can reach that magic 2900-3k speed with a much shorter barrel. Still going to take an ass-load of powder to do it, though.
46gr of Varget has done well for me. 2750 out of a 20"
Not beating a dead bush. But with the 169gr and 177gr smk,174gr eld vt, 176gr A tip. Might be a few others as well. Can the 308 be used in PRS and have any gains using these new bullets over using the tried and true 168gr or 175gr ? 26" 10 twist 90 freebore chamber. Prs limits 2800 fps and 178gr.
I answered you at Accurate Shooter but again yes all those bullets are better for TAC division in PRS than the 168 or 175 SMK. All have much higher BCs and will be pushed less by the wind.
Some in your post over there do not understand PRS and it's use of the .308 and TAC but you will get better info here.
Thanks for that. I just like to hear peoples experiences and opinions.
My 169smk load was hardly a fast mover and it flew great. Had to add about a 1/2mil elevation when I switched to 175smk at 2600fps and the wind grabs the 175s more at 1000 vs the 169s.
Here’s a video 308 cranking out using Alpha brass up to over 96,000 psi a great video that tells you that looking at the brass and primers are not good ways to determine if somethings over pressured
Though you didn't ask me. . .
In my 26" barrel, my 169 SMK's do real well with a velocity just above 2,700 fps (like 2701 to 2715 fps); that is with 41.1 gr AR-Comp and seated to a COAL at 2.931".
I posted it up earlier but it wasn't a fast load 42.5 varget in winchester brass probably 2600fps. Loaded them to 2.82" so they could shoot out of my AR10 as well. In a bolt only load 2.85" and 43gr would be a good guess.
Let us know OAL of these when you get them.
I back ordered the 174 VT's from Euro for 38.99 per 100.
I should have them today. Midways posted them for 35 per 100 for seconds. I beat the system and got 10% off so free shipping on 500 this morning.
From hornady
In comparison the 174gr ELD-VT is spec'd about .100" longer than the 178gr ELD-M.
This can be done at home if ya don't go to the extremes.
I've done so with hybrid cases which the military runs in full autos at 80,000 psi average ... but ya don't have to take em that far to see a nice improvement in standard cartridges like the 308. Or 6.5 CM.
The new alpha brass, looks like a winner.
Here are some 200 SMK running 2874 fps out of a alum chassis 308 Win, 8 twist Bartlein on a trued Rem 700 LA action with the hybrid cases.
A good load for those wishing to do it at home....if ya want.
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They are long 176 A-tips are 1.390
Holy Sierra! That's gnarly. I have a fresh box of Alpha .308 Win. brass that I should prep & load up with 175 smk's or 175 VLD's. Though, it will be to my known, precise loads
Who uses ball powders in their 308 match loads? I like AA2520 for my 69g, 80g 223 loads, it flows from my measurer great. I am looking into shooting "modern vintage sniper matches". I am thinking one of the 168g 308 bullets. I will try the AA2520 also.
Mike
Mike
Never use ball powders for match loads due to their temp sensitivity.
Can anyone take a CBO measurement for factory match loads, specifically 168 Sierra Matchkings? I'm loading some dummy rds to see where I need my freebore for some heavier bullets at mag length (2.950) and all the rds I have loaded with standard weight bullets measure 2.130-2.180 which is fine because the heavies I'm loading up are coming in around 2.210. However, I am seeing some CBO measurements with the 168 Sierra at 2.80 COAL come in at 2.230 which would not work for the freebore I'm looking at.
So far 3 factory loads I have been able to measure :
Sig 175gr 2.113
Sig 168gr 2.106
Federal 185gr 2.207
Thanks for the help
So far 3 factory loads I have been able to measure :
Sig 175gr 2.113
Sig 168gr 2.106
Federal 185gr 2.207
Thanks for the help
Unless something changes, 215 Berger at 2.950 has a CBO measurement of 2.210. Not looking for any speed, just something fun to shoot heavier bullets.
Hmmm??? I see . . . you want to get a kick out of it.
My factory CBTO for 168 gr Federal Premium match cartridges was 2.147.
Lol, just a soft push compared to my 300 Norma. Thank you for the measurement.Hmmm??? I see . . . you want to get a kick out of it.
My factory CBTO for 168 gr Federal Premium match cartridges was 2.147.
BTW: I should have mentioned that for that CBTO measurement the comparator insert I use is a Sinclair, not a Hornady (big difference, like my Hornady insert measures .050 shorter).
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Nosler says 43.5 is their accuracy load with their 175. BUT, every rifle is like a a woman in that what pleases one may not work with another , and , I wonder if other bullet makers actually have test facilities like Sierra where they do actual firing to test their products , or just use some computer programs and base everything on ES/SD ?
