6.5 Creedmoor

[19dsniper]

Today I went out and shot from 41.5-43.5 grains of H4350. Hornady brass, 130 grain ELD-M.
All groups were 5 rounds thru a bartlein 5R, 8 twist, 18” barrel on a G2 gas gun.
41.5= 2.267”
41.7= 2.746”
42.0= 1.556”
42.3= 0.556”
42.6= 1.247”
42.9= 1.114” (4 in 1 ragged hole at 0.433”) and then a pulled shot.
43.2= 0.948”
43.5= split case. I stopped after this happened. I have been watching for pressure signs and didn’t see any before this. I did not shoot any more after the first round for fear of damaging my barrel. Once I got home I used a bent paper clip to check all the previous brass for any rings and didn’t find any even on the 43.2 load. I also looked inside the brass with a flashlight and didn’t see anything out of the norm. After looking all the brass over, I just might go back and shoot the 43.5 grain load as I feel it was a bad piece of brass. I have lost track of how many firings I have on this brass. However, I’m predicting that as long as everything looks good, that I may actually find another accuracy node. First node was at 42.3, second was 0.6 higher at 42.9, and it appears that the group is shrinking again for another node 0.6 higher at the 43.5.

Even if I can’t find another node, I don’t plan on going any higher that 43.5 I will reshoot the 42.3, 42.9, and 43.5 to test them against each other. I may play with setting depth later, but right now I want it to reliably feed from magpul M110 mags.

 

[Skimafia]

AW AT
22 inch proof stainless barrel 1-8 twist

140 grain Sierra Matchking
2.815 COAL
.0405 jump (my next loads will be loaded between 2.805 and 2.810 to lessen that jump)
41.7-42.5
RL17
3 time shot Hornady brass shoulder bumped .001
CCI BR2

41.7 - 5 shot average of 2801, SD 11.5
41.9 - 5 shot average of 2807,
42.1 - 5 shot average of 2841, high SD, one outlier on speed at 2860
42.3 - 5 shot average of 2842, SD 7.9
42.5 - 5 shot average of 2863

41.7 was about a .3moa group, they opened up at 42.1 to about a 1 moa. 42.5 they started to close up again but I started getting hints of pressure

 

[Skimafia]

Photos

 

[prwillard2]

Pierce Ultralight Titanium Action
21" Christensen Arms Carbon Fiber barrel

Virgin Lapua Brass (SRP)
41.7gr Reloder 16
CCI#450 (Small Mag Rifle)
140gr ELD-M
COAL: 2.800
CBTO: 2.1950

2706 FPS at 80 degrees F, about 500 feet above sea level. Easy 1/2 MOA.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Virgin Lapua Brass (SRP)
Hodgdon Varget 40.0, 40.5, 41.0, 41.5
CCI BR-4
124gr Hammer Hunter
COAL: 2.800
CBTO: 2.205

40.0gr = 2879 FPS
40.5gr = 2907 FPS
41.0gr = 2926 FPS
41.5gr = 2967 FPS

At 75 degrees F, about 500 feet above sea level. Best grouping w/ 41.0gr

No pressure signs at 40.0gr. Slightly heavier bolt lift at 40.5 and 41.0 grains. Heavy Bolt lift at 41.5gr. Use at your own discretion.

 

[Kiba]

Finally got around to playing with RL16 now that I have the new barrel in hand.

Barrel is a 28" Bartlein 8 twist, Hornady brass, GM210M primers, 140 ELD-M. Rifle is an AIAX. Velocity taken with a Labradar. Loaded to .010" off lands.

A box of factory Hornady 140 ELD-M ammo averaged 2830fps from this barrel. Here's what the RL16 loads did...

41.7 gr = 2836fps, 6.5 SD
42.0 gr = 2863fps, 4.6 SD
42.3 gr = 2884fps, 4.7 SD
42.6 gr = 2901 fps, 5.1 SD
42.9 gr = 2933fps, 1.6 SD, 50% of cases showed extremely light ejector shine
43.2 gr = 2944fps, 5.8 SD, 50% of cases showed extremely light ejector shine
43.5 gr = 2953 fps, 6.6 SD, very light ejector marks on all cases
43.8 gr = 2966 fps, 9.2 SD, very light ejector marks on all cases

Quite surprised with the velocities. All primers looked great, no sticky bolt lift.

There was a large node from 41.7-42.6gr that were all within the same 3/4" vertical at 300Y, however 42.3-42.6 gr was the tightest spread. Settled on 42.44gr as the charge at about 2892fps. Really liking RL16 so far, ES/SD is tight, the node was wide, and the velocity is faster than H4350. Previous load with the old 26" 8 twist bartlein was 42.4gr H4350 / GM210M / 140 Amax at 2790fps.


Also tried RL16 in my JP 22" 6.5 Creedmoor semi. 22" 8 twist, GM210M primers, Hornady brass, Lapua 123 Scenar, 2.815" OAL.

42.2 gr = 2880fps, 7.4 SD
42.5 gr = 2899fps, 1.5 SD
42.8 gr = 2910fps, 8.4 SD
43.1 gr = 2934fps, 4.5 SD
43.4 gr = 2939fps, 8.0 SD
43.7 gr = 2964fps, 9.1 SD
44.0 gr = 2990fps, 8.7 SD

All loads were grouping tight at 300Y, but the node was from 42.8-43.1gr. All loads showed light ejector marks but perfect primer radii. I'm still playing with buffer weight and spring rates to reduce the ejector marks; unfortunately I think with the regular gas port location on my barrel (not the +2" gas port they use on the newer barrels) I think it's as good as I'm going to get.

Primer radii looked great, but when depriming the brass I didn't like the feel of the 43.1gr+ loads... pretty sure primer pockets would be dead in 2-3 firings even though it's below the book max, probably because of running it through a semi-auto. Going to try 41.0gr-42.2gr next trip and look for a lower node for better primer pocket life. Quickload predicts 2802fps for 41.0gr with the Ba trued for my rifle and batch of powder.

EDIT:

Just got back from testing for a lower node with RL16 in the 22" JP semi.

Here's what it did...

41.0 gr = 2820fps, 9.7 SD
41.3 gr = 2841fps, 7.9 SD
41.6 gr = 2854fps, 4.2 SD
41.9 gr = 2872fps, 3.5 SD
42.2 gr = 2886fps, 3.1 SD

There was a nice node from 41.3-41.9. All 3 of those charges put all the rounds into the same 3/4" of vertical @ 300Y, and 41.6gr had a 4 shot group that was about 3/4". No marks on the brass this time, case heads looked perfect. I think 41.6gr RL16 is the winner. The next node up at 42.94gr is ~68fps faster, but it's harder on the brass than I like.

 

[parkerg31]

I got ahold of some 147 ELD-M projectiles for free. Loaded up a 12 round ladder at .2 gr increments from 40.9-42.3 with H4350. Interestd to see where the nodes are compared to the 140gr ELD-M with the same powder and rifle. Will post results later today!

 

[parkerg31]

So here it is. Looks like a low node between 40.1 and 40.7 and another high one between 42.1 and 42.3. I didn't see any pressure signs at the high end so I would like to shoot one at 42.5 to see if the node continues, but im going to load up five at 42.2 in the middle of the high node and see how it shoots.

 

[Darqusoull13]

That's fun. My 22" JP also had a node at 40.7 grains of H4350 in Hornady brass with the 147 grain ELD-M. I also had a node at 42.1 but the groups were not as tight as the lower one in my barrel.

I only tested group size at 100, no velocity numbers yet. First test was 5 shots in 0.3 grain increments so each of these were the tightest groups in a +/- 0.3 grain window without a significant shift in point of impact. Follow up test was 10 shots at a tenth over and a tenth under the load again looking for the tightest group without a shift in point of impact.

 

[Danrobberg]

Just did a quick browse and wondering if anyone is using varget?

 

[Rlovato]

So here it is. Looks like a low node between 40.1 and 40.7 and another high one between 42.1 and 42.3. I didn't see any pressure signs at the high end so I would like to shoot one at 42.5 to see if the node continues, but im going to load up five at 42.2 in the middle of the high node and see how it shoots.

Any updates on your loads?

 

[parkerg31]

Any updates on your loads?

I loaded up 5 at 42.3 and it shot a group with a 6.3 S.D and a 15 ES. Not bad but I think I could play around with some things to get lower. I wanted to go higher and push the bullet faster but ran out of projectiles. Waiting on more and will update when I get em.

 

[Rlovato]

I loaded up 5 at 42.3 and it shot a group with a 6.3 S.D and a 15 ES. Not bad but I think I could play around with some things to get lower. I wanted to go higher and push the bullet faster but ran out of projectiles. Waiting on more and will update when I get em.

Looking forward to the results

 

[Hondo64d]

24” Bartlein 5R, 8” twist chambered by Jon Beanland.

Hornady Brass
42.8gr H4350
140gr ELD
Tula LRM primer
BTO 2.117”

.309” for five shots. Four of them went into .148”.
Haven’t chronoed them yet.

John

 

[Rlovato]

Nice!

 

[tnc]

I’m using 39.5 Varget with 130 Berger hybrids. Get 2790 FPS out of an 18” barrel

Just did a quick browse and wondering if anyone is using varget?

 

[pugnado]

Here's some load data I got with a ladder test.

AR with a 22" PR Barrel
CCI BR2
H4350
Hornady 147g ELD-M Bullet
2x Fired Full Length Resized Hornady Brass, shoulder bump .003" trimmed to 1.918"
I don't have any group data yet, but looking forward to testing 41.8g and 42.4g
Spent primers look ok on the hot loads, but shiny ejector swipes starting to show at 42g +

 

[emann1022]

Just finished working up this load:

130 Norma Golden Target
Lapua brass 3x fired
43.4 gn Reloder 16
CCI 450
SD 4.0 (10 shots over magnetospeed)
3028 FPS

AIAT 6.5 Creedmoor bartlien 1-8 26"

 

[dmg308]

I did a quck look but does anyone have any positive loads with a ball powder?.

 

[81sfo]

Try Power Pro 2000mr its a ball powder meters real good , its great stuff on my 6.5 creed , 260 rem , and 308s .

 

[dmg308]

Will do thx

 

[dntworry]

Anyone have any load suggestions for IMR4350, I already have 8# and just ordered 200 new lapua brass.

 

[dntworry]

Was thinking 143gr eldx, so I could deer hunt with it as well as bang steel

 

[LRose]

Was thinking 143gr eldx, so I could deer hunt with it as well as bang steel

I love the round, i find it frequently on sale, great for the range or the field. Buy a box of hornady hunter precision rds, they use the 143gr eldx projectile with about 41. gr of H4350, see if your rifle likes it.

 

[dntworry]

Loaded some 143gr and found a great node at 39gr for fire forming my new lapua brass. Only issue I had was it is very slow at 2450fps from my 24" Tikka T3X CTR. I tried up to 43gr without pressure signs but it was less than accurate. Once formed I will try to find a higher node otherwise will try H4350 or R16, just hard to not use what I already have.

 

[LRose]

Loaded some 143gr and found a great node at 39gr for fire forming my new lapua brass. Only issue I had was it is very slow at 2450fps from my 24" Tikka T3X CTR. I tried up to 43gr without pressure signs but it was less than accurate. Once formed I will try to find a higher node otherwise will try H4350 or R16, just hard to not use what I already have.

great looking group. I would look for the higher node for sure, i load h4350 and im at 2950-3000fps with 43.2 gr, 22" 1:8 twist. I found that my groups opened up at the end of my ladder test because of hot the barrel was and not the load when I revisited. 6.5 deserves to be shooting faster than 2500

 

[dntworry]

I've heard rumors factory Tikka barrels are "slow" as well but I'll reserve judgement until I work up a more stout load and report back.

 

[OzTRG]

Tag for later use

 

[Lunchbox27]

Go with RL16. That's what I use. Tikka barrels are slow. I've used H4350 (2550 on the node with 140's), IMR4451 (2530 on the node) and RL16 (2680 on the higher node). This is with a 20" barrel. That being said, my Tikka is currently getting re-barreled for this reason. Accurate, but slow!

 

[Dschapp44]

Rifle is a 6.5C trued Remington 700 with a 26 inch Krieger barrel chambered by Northwest Action Works and shoots factory hornady ELDM Match at 2725 FPS.

140
Lapua SP
Federal 205M Primer
H4350 42.8 grains
Berger 140 Hybrid
Coal is 2.820
Velocity 2830 FPS
SD 8

Pushed this load up to 43.3 grains and got over 2900 FPS without pressure signs but ended up backing off a bit to match my Berger 140 VLD in Hornady brass load which have a coal of 2.805.

 

[dntworry]

After doing some research I picked up both RL26 and RL16 to try.

I am loading 2.260 Length to Ogive for .020 jump in my rifle, OAL of roughly 2.9". Any suggestions on where to start and where my max pressure will be around?

 

[alaskalanche]

After doing some research I picked up both RL26 and RL16 to try.

I am loading 2.260 Length to Ogive for .020 jump in my rifle, OAL of roughly 2.9". Any suggestions on where to start and where my max pressure will be around?

I use 143s with RL-26...start at around 44 grains. I ended up at 2910 fps average with 143 ELDX in my 24" CTR, but you'll need a drop tube.

 

[Wyldeman]

ARC Nucleus, EH-1 surface bedded, 22" proof with TBAC Ultra 7 6.5 - Built by Chad
Makes tiny holes at 100 & 200

130 AR Hybrid
Virgin Lapua srp
Cci 450
42.5g RL16
BTO 2.255

2820 fps
Sd 6.7
Es 14

 

[Rick7353]

I did a quck look but does anyone have any positive loads with a ball powder?.

I have shot BL-C (2) Very good results in my savage 12 FV. TAD DIRTY

 

[Hondo64d]

Varget seems to do ok in the Creed too, at least with lighter bullets. Was able to work up to 3023fps with Berger AR Hybrids from my 24” Bartlein with no pressure signs but best accuracy was around 2900fps. These are 10 shot groups.

John

 

[Coffee is for closers]

I just started seeing sierra has a match bullet at 150 grains. Anyone out there used it or willing to post on it?? This could be awesome ....let me know. Thanks

 

[One1Bravo]

I just started seeing sierra has a match bullet at 150 grains. Anyone out there used it or willing to post on it?? This could be awesome ....let me know. Thanks

Also interested in how the heavier bullets perform.

 

[patriot07]

I just started seeing sierra has a match bullet at 150 grains. Anyone out there used it or willing to post on it?? This could be awesome ....let me know. Thanks

Last I checked, about twice the price compared to 140 ELD-M. Just worth noting.

I think there's a good chance they'll be slightly better than the 140 ballistically if you can stabilize them, but whether that's worth a big jump in price is an individual matter.

 

[Randy_Lahey]

Got around to trying some Laos’s I worked up. Temps were cold today @30f.

PSA 20” barrel/bug. Aero enhanced upper/lower. Primary arms 6-30 deka scope.

42.3 gr IMR 4511 and 143gr eld-x shot well @2711fps
Reloader16 showed me more accuracy modes though. Barrel seems to like 2800-2850fps with 143gr eld-x or even slightly better with 140gr eld-match bullets. Think I can find something to work with so I’m happy so far.

I am having some issues with occasional stove pipe/double feeds. S&B factory ammo was horrible about this. That ammo is hot from factory. I had one occurrence in 100 rounds tonight at a lower charge so not sure what to make of it. Ideas?

 

[Skimafia]

I am going to derail this topic slightly with a question about annealing. Many people here are using Hornady brass, I am wondering if annealing is worth the effort and cost to this brass.
I know brass life is dependent on many factors like loading at near or slightly above book max. I tend to load in that range. I have some 3x loaded brass that still feel like the primer pockets are tight.
Is it worth annealing after 3-4 shootings? Can I expect 7-8 loads for these cases?

 

[Kcombe265]

Anyone have any load suggestions for IMR4350, I already have 8# and just ordered 200 new lapua brass.

I've been running 142SMK's with the imr4350. 42.1gr keeps my 5shot under 3/8's and down to 1/4" if I'm doing my job right. Hell the other day had 3 in 1 hole right, got siked out and the 4th made my circle an oval and the 5th shot was still touching but totally fucked up the original hole. Good load for me and my buddies anyway.
Ran that load through 5 different RPR rifles and everyone of em liked it

 

[dntworry]

Finally got around to testing the R16



I have a load currently at 39gr of IMR4350 that I used to fireform brass the issue with it is, I am only getting 2450 fps but here is a 4 round group I did to confirm zero after remounting my scope.

Looking for suggestions on where to go from here, I was thinking looking around 42.9 area but 42.3 and 42.6 also looks good.

 

[Al A]

I am going to derail this topic slightly with a question about annealing. Many people here are using Hornady brass, I am wondering if annealing is worth the effort and cost to this brass.
I know brass life is dependent on many factors like loading at near or slightly above book max. I tend to load in that range. I have some 3x loaded brass that still feel like the primer pockets are tight.
Is it worth annealing after 3-4 shootings? Can I expect 7-8 loads for these cases?

I am very new to this but would just like to say why not anneal. I do believe it adds to the life of your brass. At 5 seconds each it takes no time at all. YouTube has a ton of info on it and all you need is a propane torch and a drill.

 

[abn31c]

I use a MAPP gas torch and anneal in the dark to help me see. With this setup i dont use a drill as you only need 2 or 3 seconds rolling with fingers and drop it in a box. I use Hornady brass cause I'm a cheap azz and this has greatly improved my es and sd. I anneal and trim every load cycle. Try it, its just ammo.?

 

[Al A]

When you anneal in the dark do you look for a specific glow from the brass?

 

[abn31c]

Kinda, when I pull the brass away I look for a hint of orange glow on edge of case mouth. The more knowledgeable will probably say this is wrong but I learned this method years ago and works for me. I run 140s at 2780 fps and rarely lose primer pockets before I lose the brass.

 

[dntworry]

Go with RL16. That's what I use. Tikka barrels are slow. I've used H4350 (2550 on the node with 140's), IMR4451 (2530 on the node) and RL16 (2680 on the higher node). This is with a 20" barrel. That being said, my Tikka is currently getting re-barreled for this reason. Accurate, but slow!

My node with lapua brass, 143gr eldx, and 42.8gr R16. This load put me at 0.5MOA for a 5 shot group and avg 2852fps. Not quite as good looking as the IMR load but 400 fps gain is hard to ignore.

I have the 24" CTR but those speeds seem plenty respectable for a slow Tikka barrel.

 

[Ripdog28]

Anyone switched from 4350 to RL16-17 and happy they did or think they should have stayed with 4350?

 

[Lunchbox27]

Anyone switched from 4350 to RL16-17 and happy they did or think they should have stayed with 4350?

I did... first to 17 and now 16. No regrets. I can find it when I want it, accurate, speed boost, and temp stable.

 

[Fishkat]

I use both 4350 and RL 16 and started using the RL16 with a 22” barrel to gain some velocity. So picked up about 100fps while maintaining accuracy. I’m glad I tried it out. Have two loads worked up pushing 140vld’s to 2772 and 2795 FPS.

 

[abn31c]

I used about 6 lb. Of rl16. Shot fine but too dirty for me, gotta stay on top of carbon ring issue. Picked up 16 lbs h4350 just yesterday its just better IMHO.