- Thread starter padom
- Start date
Getting ready to order a Forster FL sizing die for a gas gun that is being built and need some help on measurements of the neck on a loaded round. I am not turning necks and will be using Starline brass to begin with. I plan on having the die honed by Forster before it is shipped, therefore the need for the measurement.
Thanks for the info...
Thanks for the info...
I use the RCBS #16407 dies. They're for .264 LBC (same as the 6.5 Grendel) and they have been working perfectly for many years. If you are wanting something other than RCBS, then I'd look into Redding 39478 dies.
I don't use Starline brass for anything, so no idea. I use Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass. Mostly from loaded ammo I shot, so they were free "pews" before I loaded them with handloads. I keep a good supply of factory 6.5G Hornady ammo because it shoots it pretty decently, as well. And buying the brass itself was (before the chaos and inflation) almost as expensive as just buying the loaded ammo. You could get about 40 rounds of loaded 6.5 Grendel Hornady Black for about what 50 pieces of new brass were. I'm hoping once the chaos settles, prices will go back to that.
Yes I hear you.
I buy hornady gold box and black box 6.5g. I pick up 6.5g range brass that is mostly hornady.
The hornady is going for 25-30$ / 20rnds when you can find it locally at the best price I can find.
So I can load up what I consider better brass, the same or better bullets and adjust for my barrel with or without the suppressor.
Lately not much price difference.
The box loads shoot better than most but my suppressor won't tolerate them at all. In fact the suppressor adapter tosses it out of the node.
I want to see how fast I can get a 135g hybrid hunter going for 50-300 yard rackem & stackem duty.
The more I load other bullets the less impressed with Hornady bullets I get.
Maybe I just get lucky with other brands being more forgiving.
I buy hornady gold box and black box 6.5g. I pick up 6.5g range brass that is mostly hornady.
The hornady is going for 25-30$ / 20rnds when you can find it locally at the best price I can find.
So I can load up what I consider better brass, the same or better bullets and adjust for my barrel with or without the suppressor.
Lately not much price difference.
The box loads shoot better than most but my suppressor won't tolerate them at all. In fact the suppressor adapter tosses it out of the node.
I want to see how fast I can get a 135g hybrid hunter going for 50-300 yard rackem & stackem duty.
The more I load other bullets the less impressed with Hornady bullets I get.
Maybe I just get lucky with other brands being more forgiving.
Pretty much covet my 120-123 Scenars and 123 Sierras for the time being, but have found very acceptable results with prime 123 Nosler CCs, though if you buy their seconds, I’d surely sort them by ogival length.
Last edited:
Back when I could get 40 loaded rounds of Hornady 6.5G, they were still selling them for $16.99 a box. So, 2 boxes of 40 loaded rounds were about $35, and it was about $35 back then to get 50 pieces of unloaded new Hornady 6.5G brass. Granted, these days, your finding Hornady Black 6.5G for $25-35 a box, so it's doubled in cost in some aspects. These days, it's not worth it to buy loaded ammo, unless you find it for $20-25 a box.
I use Hornady bullets for 3 things... 1) I love their FTX LeverEvolution bullets for my .357 Mag and .44 Mag revolvers. For the price, nothing beats them. 2) They're cheap interlocks are very inexpensive, and work great for fire-forming brass for my Ackley Imp. cartridges. 3) Their factory loaded ammo is pretty decent in most all cartridges I've shot over the last nearly 30 years of hunting and shooting.
For my precision bolt-actions, long-range, and hunting rifles, I pretty much stick with Bergers. But I do use some Nosler Custom Comps and RDF bullets, as well.
Franken
Are you using H4350 in a Grendel or 6.5 Creedmoor? You may be in wrong thread.
Are you using H4350 in a Grendel or 6.5 Creedmoor? You may be in wrong thread.
You're correct. Creedmore.
Anything new on the 129 ABLR? the Hornady black shot great out of my gun but was less than impressed with the penetration on deer, Sst shot like shit so didn’t try it in any deer(both factory loads) I just ordered a box of the 129 ABLR and wondered if anyone has a load worked up as a starting point?
thank you
thank you
I'm getting Sub MOA with SST bullets, but I'm reloading them. I didn't like the lower velocity with the heavier bullets.
Have had good results with CFE223 and CCI 41’s with 129 ABLR’s in a couple of Satern cut rifled barrels, with velocities in the mid 2400’s. You might start around 29.0 grains and work up in small increments. Have Leverevolution to work with, and would think 2000MR might be another option. Watch for temp sensitivity as summer approaches.
There probably gone by now but Midway had gold dots in about every flavor a couple weeks ago. There may be some 30 cal or 6mm left I doubt there's any 6.5 but it may be worth a look. I scored a couple hundo of 30s and 120g 6.5s and got my old man order me 200 
. Crazy how a projectile I've nvr caught in stock hits during a shortage. I'll post some data when I finally get time to work something up. I'm looking at ar-comp and aa2520. Any you fellas got data? I got a pretty good idea where to start with em but I've also got Tac cfe223 h4895 and the IMR flavor if anyone has seen good results with those pls share
. Crazy how a projectile I've nvr caught in stock hits during a shortage. I'll post some data when I finally get time to work something up. I'm looking at ar-comp and aa2520. Any you fellas got data? I got a pretty good idea where to start with em but I've also got Tac cfe223 h4895 and the IMR flavor if anyone has seen good results with those pls share For the 120’s, go with AR Comp. Work up in .2 increments from 26.0 grains. I have found lots of flexibility in the low 27’s, but as always, work up in your gun. ARC is definitely my ‘go to’ powder for 6.5 GR. Low sensitivity to temp variation, low SD’s and excellent accuracy.
Last edited:
I use CFE-223 under the 129gr ABLR.
The ABLRs are really soft bullets, so you’ll want to use a VLD seating stem, otherwise you’ll see a ring around the frontal portion of the ogive with most standard dies like the Hornady New Dimension seater.
Start load with Hornady brass that we pressure-tested was 29.0gr, max out at 30.4gr.
That’s with a 2.260” COL and CCI 450s, SAAMI chamber with a reamer cut to simulate mid-reamer life in a calibrated pressure test breech.
129gr ABLR has 1300fps expansion on the bottom end, which makes it a great hunting bullet since it uses bonded construction.
129gr ABLR even from short barreled Grendels are a great combo.
BC is really high on it as well.
Other powders you can use with 129gr ABLR include:
AA2520
BL-C(2)
LEVERevolution
Varget
N540
W748
Power Pro Varmint
TAC
Charge weights on the top end will vary with what type of brass you use due to volumetric differences.
I am just beginning my 6.5 grendel load development journey, and experienced something odd.
I started testing with 123gr sst's over cfe223, hornady brass, and cci 41's. First 4 shots grouped around 1.5 inches. Not great, but for a new barrel, not concerning. The longer I shot, and the hotter the barrel got, the worse it shot. The fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth 4-shot groups were six inch+.
Gun specs:
24" ss fluted 1:8t BCA barrel
home built lower with aero precision lpk
Larue mbt-2s trigger
After my terrible first outing with the rifle, took it home. Disassembled the upper(thought the gas block was contacting inner handgaurd), lapped the receiver, bedded the barrel extension, replaced gas block with a superlative arms agb, and changed muzzle device to a dead air qd brake.
Took rifle back to the range this past friday. Shot the same 123 sst/cfe223 load. same result. now I'm thinking my scope is shot. I figure, hell, I'm already here, let me try a different load. I had some 123 eldm's over IMR8208. Shot them. DAMN. It was like a different gun. Out of 8, 4-shot groups, none were larger than 2 inches, with a couple just slightly over 1 inch, something I can work with.
It is just amazing to me, that with so many people having great success with cfe223, that it would be THAT bad in mine. I even shot some 130 eldm's over AA2520 that did much better than the first bunch.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
I started testing with 123gr sst's over cfe223, hornady brass, and cci 41's. First 4 shots grouped around 1.5 inches. Not great, but for a new barrel, not concerning. The longer I shot, and the hotter the barrel got, the worse it shot. The fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth 4-shot groups were six inch+.
Gun specs:
24" ss fluted 1:8t BCA barrel
home built lower with aero precision lpk
Larue mbt-2s trigger
After my terrible first outing with the rifle, took it home. Disassembled the upper(thought the gas block was contacting inner handgaurd), lapped the receiver, bedded the barrel extension, replaced gas block with a superlative arms agb, and changed muzzle device to a dead air qd brake.
Took rifle back to the range this past friday. Shot the same 123 sst/cfe223 load. same result. now I'm thinking my scope is shot. I figure, hell, I'm already here, let me try a different load. I had some 123 eldm's over IMR8208. Shot them. DAMN. It was like a different gun. Out of 8, 4-shot groups, none were larger than 2 inches, with a couple just slightly over 1 inch, something I can work with.
It is just amazing to me, that with so many people having great success with cfe223, that it would be THAT bad in mine. I even shot some 130 eldm's over AA2520 that did much better than the first bunch.
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
That's why you do load development for each individual rifle because each rifle.
How many grains of CFE are you using
Yes sir, you are correct. That's why I develop loads for EVERY weapon I shoot. I've been hand loading for about 26 years now, but I've never had a powder exhibit this to this extent.
As far as the charge, started at 29.2, up to 31.3. Seated at 2.250". New hornady brass.
I may try the bullets with another powder, but I think I'll not waste the primers trying cfe223 with anything involving MY grendel.
I was trying that exact load, cfe223 / hornady brass / hornady 123sst at 2.245 coal .
My gun was grossly over gassed.
I also had too much neck tension.
None of those groups up to book max were over 2 inches or under 1 3/8.
Got a new agb and forgot to torque scope. (Now those groups really sucked)
I experimented with light weight fill in my front and rear bag. (Sucked)
Anyway cfe223 does not like to be compressed.
I had to use +2 buffer and flat wire spring, was getting false pressure signs.
New set of ocw loads comming soon. Lol
Couple of things for you to check.
I've had some fud pencil barrels act like that.
My gun was grossly over gassed.
I also had too much neck tension.
None of those groups up to book max were over 2 inches or under 1 3/8.
Got a new agb and forgot to torque scope. (Now those groups really sucked)
I experimented with light weight fill in my front and rear bag. (Sucked)
Anyway cfe223 does not like to be compressed.
I had to use +2 buffer and flat wire spring, was getting false pressure signs.
New set of ocw loads comming soon. Lol
Couple of things for you to check.
I've had some fud pencil barrels act like that.
IME CFE223 is super temperature sensitive. Try keeping CFE loaded ammo in a insulated lunch bag with a blue ice compartment.
You could try working up a load with CCI 400's instead. Not quite as hot, but will still work fine. Hell, I've even used 400's for subsonic .300 BLK loads that shot AMAZING! I have noticed similar pattern issues like you had with my 6.5 Grendel and all the same components, just Nosler 123 Custom Comps. I think CFE223 (and other powders) just doesn't handle the magnum primers' hot ignition well.
I have noticed great subsonic performance with my .300 BLK and CCI 400's using Alliant 300-MP powder, but when I used the same load, and substituted in CCI 450's (magnums) I had to drop down a half a grain to keep them just under the supersonic barrier, and they shoot like shit...Even at 100 yards. First few groups 1-1.5", then after that, they start flying all over the damn place... But then, I aim over at the 10" 200 yard gong, and first-round hits with a holdover. It's just nuts. Load development for AR's has proven to be a huge pain in the ass. That's why if I find something that works really good, then I'm happy, but when it comes to just plinking around, if I can find a load that works "ok", and if I can't get anything better to work with a few small tweaks, then that's my plinking/range load. And I've been loading and shooting my whole life... Some AR's are just picky as hell.
If you can source some AR Comp, it’s been exceptionally reliable in a half dozen 6.5 Grendel’s from 18-24”. Burns cool, temp insensitive, low SD’s and very good accuracy. With 120/123’s, start mid 26’s and look for a result in low/mid 27’s.
Have shot a lot of CFE-it does have its applications, and it seems to work best near 100% fill, though is also temp sensitive, as noted above. 8208 also very good, but watch near max, as pressure will move quickly on you with small charge weight changes.
Have shot a lot of CFE-it does have its applications, and it seems to work best near 100% fill, though is also temp sensitive, as noted above. 8208 also very good, but watch near max, as pressure will move quickly on you with small charge weight changes.
I would have considered a junk barrel if it had not shot the next two loads as well as it did. My 123 eldm/8208 loads were all worthy of refinement, and the 130 eldm/AA2520 loads weren't far behind.
You got that shit right! My previous project was a budget build 224 valkyrie. That thing worked my ass off, but I finally got three loads that are sub-moa, so I figured it was time to move on. I really don't think the grendel will be that bad, but since I've got plenty of 8208, I'll probably just roll with that. It groups better and gives me more velocity.
I just finished loading up some 123 s sst's with ar comp. 25.9-28.0grs. I shot 8208 up to 28.5 grs friday, temps right at 90, with only very slightly flattening primers. I'm going to go back and load 123 eldm's with that in .1gr increments from 27.3-27.8, then work on seat depth. With the way those 8208 loads shot the other day, I'm very optimistic. Had good velocity too.
Last edited:
I like 8208 in the grendel but only have 1 1/2 lb left.
So I have new 8lb in H335 and cfe223.
I agree that cfe223 goes from good to scatter mode in 3g and over pressure next 3g in several calibers.
When I near max, get a group and the next scatters, I pull down the next and dont look back.
97-98 % on several loads now.
So I have new 8lb in H335 and cfe223.
I agree that cfe223 goes from good to scatter mode in 3g and over pressure next 3g in several calibers.
When I near max, get a group and the next scatters, I pull down the next and dont look back.
97-98 % on several loads now.
Yes, I experienced similar results. The 8208 shot head and shoulders above other powders I used. As you know barrels, chambers and rifling are different and load development is a must for optimum accuracy. Glad to hear you got it shooting good. I'm using 26.5 gr of IMR8208 with a Hornady 120 ELDM, sub moa groups. 3 shots over the chrono 2380 2381 2380. Not fast, but real accurate, clover leafed that group.
What i found with IMR 8208. A chrono is your friend.
I’m using CFE223 for my 6.5G and it is grouping at .51 MOA. I load 31gr, with a Hornady 123gr SST in Hornady brass. Use CCI primer #41 with a O.A.L of 2.27.fits in my mags with no problem and this is out of a 20” BCA stainless barrel. Tried XBR8208 and it just wouldn’t group small then 2”. Wanting to try AR Comp now that I have a pound of it.
I use 32,0 gr of CFE223 with the 123 SST out of a 20" barrel. Yes its definitely pushing it, but need the speed and it provides decent accuracy. Likely throttle it back a bit when this batch runs out. Maybe find a better accuracy node in the process.
When using CFE in the past, was easily getting 2550 in 20” Satern cut rifled barrel and 2650 in 24” Satern cut rifled barrel with 123 CC’s, 31.7 CFE and CCI 41 primers in Hornady brass. And is a compressed load-tough on brass, throat and gas port, but accurate. Backed down to 31.4 and once more to 31.2….and then started working with 8208 and AR Comp. No real issue with 8208, as it’s VG in 223 and lighter bullets in 308. That said, now almost exclusively AR Comp based on its flexibility and accuracy. Five shots fired in rapid succession with 123 CC’s is very representative of results-maybe a bit better with 120/123 Lapua or Sierras. About 2525 at 85-90d.
PM Inbound.
When you find AR Comp let me know.
Doesn't surprise me... All I know is that this purposefully-manufactured shortage is bullshit. And the prices are even more bullshit. The cheapest I'm seeing .22LR ammo is like $0.11-0.15 per round. That's stupid prices. That's what steel-cased .223 should be! I remember in the late 90's and early 2000's when I could go to Wally World & buy a bulk 550 pack of Federal 36gr. copper plated .22LR for a $10 bill, and still get back change... I said it was bullshit when it went up to $20 after Obama's ban attempt. But looking back, I'd buy every fucking bulk-pack I could find for $20 now. I've got a decent supply, just want to buy more now that my rimfire suppressor has come home to stay. I'm seeing 500 pack of regular lead-nose crap up in the $60-90 range... Fuck that!
Here you 6mm arc guys go.
Get off my 6.5g brass you leaches.
Get off my 6.5g brass you leaches.
Well I was up late but got what I needed. Here you go have at it.
Starline 6.5 Grendel Brass
Premium new, unprimed Starline 6.5 Grendel brass from your trusted source for reloading components, www.armorally.com Quick shipping.
www.armorally.com
Snuby-didn’t see any AR Comp in your pic. Your quest is not quite complete yet!
Thanks I will keep that in mind.
My workhouse gp powder is cfe223 and its becoming available slowly. Not to say it's the best at anything but it is sevicable in many and meters well.
During the panic I got an 8lb jug of H335 and been working with it, not finished my testing on 223 loads yet.
Winds howling and nearly 100 degrees, heat index over 100 lately.
My workhouse gp powder is cfe223 and its becoming available slowly. Not to say it's the best at anything but it is sevicable in many and meters well.
During the panic I got an 8lb jug of H335 and been working with it, not finished my testing on 223 loads yet.
Winds howling and nearly 100 degrees, heat index over 100 lately.
Well I was up late but got what I needed. Here you go have at it.
Starline 6.5 Grendel Brass
Premium new, unprimed Starline 6.5 Grendel brass from your trusted source for reloading components, www.armorally.com Quick shipping.www.armorally.com
Wasn't for sure if this is a legit biz or like so many new "companies" out there nowadays. No phone or physical address listed threw up a red flag to me. Found a couple reviews online, including 1 or 2 here on the Hide. Still undecided if I'll roll the dice and order 500pcs. At least until I get a few "yeah, they're legit" responses.
Similar threads
Accessories 6 and 6.5 Grendel uppers
