6.5CM Reloading Questions!

[jarrington282]

Hide fam,

It has been a little bit since I have been in the reloading game, and mainly when I did in the past (10 years ago) I had a friend help me out a little bit. While the internet has evolved I have done a ton of research but most things I've found are pretty dated on powders, bullets, etc...

Alright gun info
AR-10 Build
- Ballistic Advantage (PS) 22" 1:8 Twist 6.5 CM

My Goal with finding the best load
- To get the best groupings I can (obviously) and when the time comes shoot 500+ yards (we only have a 300-400 yard range around me within a 2 hr drive)

I am planning on doing the following:

Brass:
Mixed (Test a few brands like Lapua, Hornady, Nosler)

Primers:
Mixed between CCI No.200 LR, CCI No.400 SR, Since 6.5 cm brass evidently fluctuates between small and large primers. And input on which I should lean-to and keep or just shoot the gun and see if it likes one more than the other is my plan.

Bullets:
Right now I am looking at testing Hornady 140gr ELDM and look into Berger 140gr Hybrid, Nosler Accubond 140gr , Lapua Scenar 139gr, SMK 140gr, (After a little research looks like 140gr is the most popular, I may try a couple of other gr but for now thinking stick with the 140 unless the gun tells me otherwise.)

Powder:
Well the plan was H4350 but I'm sure you know it's sold out everywhere... At the moment I have some leftover VV N540 from 2010 when I reloaded for my .308 I am going to start to test with and may pick up some N150, N550, and some new N540 since mine is as old as a 3rd grader. And when H4350 comes in stock I will pick that up and looking into Reloader 16. Any other thoughts on what I should pick up?



If you want the quick stuff and not have to read through me rambling above would love some help answering the following

1. Small primer or Large primer for 6.5cm?

2. Bullet options that you have found to be amazing?

3. Powder alternatives to H4350?

4. Does RCBS or another company make a Microjust like Hornady does for their dies? From a couple old posts I've seen they do not but again the posts are over 3 years old.

5. What other things do I need for 6.5 CM? I have RCBS FL Die set, shell holder, anything else I'm missing I need specifically for 6.5 CM?


Cheers guys happy to be back into reloading!

 

[ThreeBravo]

First off welcome back to reloading and nice looking rig!

1. I personally use large primer just because I got a good deal on large primer brass and I already had a ton of BR2 primers. I have read that a lot of guys use small rifle as they get lower SDs with certain brass/primer/powder combinations.

2. I have had good results with both the 140 and 147 eldm over H4350. I also ran the 130 nosler RDF over varget but its not the optimal powder for 6.5cm and didn't get as good of velocity as you can with other powders.

3. I personally have only used H4350 and varget in my 6.5cm but wanting to try RL16 and Staball 6.5.

4. I believe RCBS makes a competition seating die with a micrometer on the top for adjustment, as does redding and probably other companies. I personally use the redding neck bushing set.

5. Only thing I can think of is case trimming and case prep. From the picture it looks like you have the basics already. I would make a checklist of step by step start to finish and what tool/equipment you need to perform that operation and see if you are missing anything.

 

[Chernobyl]

My set up: gen 3 rpr 6.5 cm.

1. I personally use large primer in cci 200. Have tried other large primers with little variation. Will try small primers on next batch of cases.

2. 140 Berger vld target over h4350. Tried multiple others but this held best groups out past 1000 yards

3. Tried r16. Will most likely go back to if I can’t find any 4350

4. I use Redding type S competition die with micro seater. I love it.

5. Case trimming equipment. Also need a tumbler. You will find some good equipment check off lists here with a little searching.

Good luck!

 

[sab567]

1. I went with small primer. No regrets, low SD all the time and brass life looks good. I'm about 10 reloads on brass and they still looks good.

2. I personnaly run Norma 130gr. Eld-M 140gr look to be the standard, only heard good things

3. H4350, RL16, Staball 6.5, IMR4451. That's the must commun.

4. RCBS have their micrometric seater. Must of the brand now have theirs.

 

[Chesterrose79]

Bergara B14 HMR 6.5 CM
Lapua brass with small primers. That’s all they had at the time now they make large primer brass as well. I love Lapua brass. Didn’t have to do anything to it ie: neck turning, primer pocket uniform ing etc....

#2 Went with Hornady 147gr ELD M for the high BC then worked my powder load around it.

#3 I did load dev with H 4350 and found that with the Lapua cases I had early pressure signs before maximum load recommendations. I’m pretty sure it’s due to the Lapua brass being thicker and having smaller case volume.
#4 I use the Hornady micrometer seating die with the bushing die to control neck tension and make sure it’s being seated as straight as possible.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

1. I have only used lapua brass, but I only have shot 6.5cm in a bolt gun. You might look into using Hornady brass as it won’t hurt as bad when it gets chewed up and thrown away in the gas gun. So that would mean large rifle primers.

2. 140 hybrids are awesome, but expensive. I’m looking switch over to RDFs or ELDMs. I would look into the Berger 130 AR hybrid, they can be more optimal for gas guns, or at least the mag length restrictions that you run into.

3. Staball 6.5, imr 4451, RL16, RL26, I’ve heard Shooters World Long Rifle works well, but it’s a newer/less proven option (the price is tempting though). There’s H4350 at Powder Valley today.

4. Redding makes a micro seater.

5. You’ll need to anneal and trim brass. Also chamfering tool. Don’t worry about neck turning or primer pocket uniforming. You’ll likely never see the minuscule improvement out of the gas gun. For brass trimming look into “worlds finest trimmer”. There are some great write-ups on annealing on the hide elsewhere.

 

[BBVDD]

I have the same barrel in one of mine. It likes 42g h4350 with Berger 140g hybrids.
Have been able to get under .5" 5 shot groups at 100yds with that load.
Just regular LR primers

My 6.5 bolt gun likes 41.5g r-16 with 143g ELD-x

 

[jarrington282]

First off welcome back to reloading and nice looking rig!

1. I personally use large primer just because I got a good deal on large primer brass and I already had a ton of BR2 primers. I have read that a lot of guys use small rifle as they get lower SDs with certain brass/primer/powder combinations.

2. I have had good results with both the 140 and 147 eldm over H4350. I also ran the 130 nosler RDF over varget but its not the optimal powder for 6.5cm and didn't get as good of velocity as you can with other powders.

3. I personally have only used H4350 and varget in my 6.5cm but wanting to try RL16 and Staball 6.5.

4. I believe RCBS makes a competition seating die with a micrometer on the top for adjustment, as does redding and probably other companies. I personally use the redding neck bushing set.

5. Only thing I can think of is case trimming and case prep. From the picture it looks like you have the basics already. I would make a checklist of step by step start to finish and what tool/equipment you need to perform that operation and see if you are missing anything.

Thanks so much for the reply! Most of the brass I have bought over the last couple of weeks is LP so I may stick with that. Also, have managed to get my hands on some H4350 so I am happy with that. Once all this blows away I am going to have quiet the day of shooting! Maybe if it's long enough I'll have my SilencerCo Hybrid! I don't have a case trimming and a better powder dispenser I believe I am going to get a chargmaster or Lite version just because I have never had issues in the past. again thanks for the warm welcome!

 

[jarrington282]

My set up: gen 3 rpr 6.5 cm.

1. I personally use large primer in cci 200. Have tried other large primers with little variation. Will try small primers on next batch of cases.

2. 140 Berger vld target over h4350. Tried multiple others but this held best groups out past 1000 yards

3. Tried r16. Will most likely go back to if I can’t find any 4350

4. I use Redding type S competition die with micro seater. I love it.

5. Case trimming equipment. Also need a tumbler. You will find some good equipment check off lists here with a little searching.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply, I actually have a SS wet set up and am looking into a dehydrator for drying my last couple batches of brass I put the oven on 170 and cut it off and let the brass hang out for an hour or so

 

[jarrington282]

1. I have only used lapua brass, but I only have shot 6.5cm in a bolt gun. You might look into using Hornady brass as it won’t hurt as bad when it gets chewed up and thrown away in the gas gun. So that would mean large rifle primers.

2. 140 hybrids are awesome, but expensive. I’m looking switch over to RDFs or ELDMs. I would look into the Berger 130 AR hybrid, they can be more optimal for gas guns, or at least the mag length restrictions that you run into.

3. Staball 6.5, imr 4451, RL16, RL26, I’ve heard Shooters World Long Rifle works well, but it’s a newer/less proven option (the price is tempting though). There’s H4350 at Powder Valley today.

4. Redding makes a micro seater.

5. You’ll need to anneal and trim brass. Also chamfering tool. Don’t worry about neck turning or primer pocket uniforming. You’ll likely never see the minuscule improvement out of the gas gun. For brass trimming look into “worlds finest trimmer”. There are some great write-ups on annealing on the hide elsewhere.

Do you think I "need" to anneal? I have seen a set up for under 300 and I know it helps prolong the brass but unsure if it's worth the extra 300 I could use on something else. Also solid on the trimmer I am going to order it I believe, looks exactly what I would like to have

 

[jarrington282]

I have the same barrel in one of mine. It likes 42g h4350 with Berger 140g hybrids.
Have been able to get under .5" 5 shot groups at 100yds with that load.
Just regular LR primers

My 6.5 bolt gun likes 41.5g r-16 with 143g ELD-x

Great to hear! Looks like the Berger 140s are on the top of the list to order next!

 

[powerspc]

Lapua brass
small primers - Fed 205M
H4350 (there was so much consensus on the 4350 I bought enough to shoot out the barrel so have never looked for anything else)
140 ELD-M (same, bought a fuck ton)
I’m using Triebel dies, but I know Reddding makes a microjust
I turned all the necks, 1) I’m anal, 2) I have the equipment to do it and know how to use it
Anneal (AMP) after every firing
Trimming with a Giraud
Single digit ES, consistently
26” Bartlein 1-8” twist

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Do you think I "need" to anneal? I have seen a set up for under 300 and I know it helps prolong the brass but unsure if it's worth the extra 300 I could use on something else. Also solid on the trimmer I am going to order it I believe, looks exactly what I would like to have

I would anneal after every firing, for a few reasons.
1. A regular Hornady full length sizing die will work the brass ALOT, which isn’t great for it and will lead to faster splitting of necks.
2. It will create more consistent neck tension, which in turn creates better accuracy and more importantly, more consistent velocities.
3. In theory it won’t matter if a piece of brass has 2 firings or 10 firings, they should all size, load, and shoot the same. (This means no more need to keep everything segregated by number of firings. Trust me, this gets super annoying after a while).
4. Your brass looks cool. Which will make you feel better about yourself, and when you feel better about yourself and your gear, you are more like shoot well. A large part of shooting is psychological.
5. Annealing doesn’t have to be expensive. I’ll attach a picture of my setup below.

 

[salks]

Lapua SR brass, I have had good luck with hornady as well
H4350 ( all I've used )
Primers, CCI 450, BR-4, federal match.
Berger bullets (any)
I use an anealeeze it has paid for itself with the amount of firings I have on some of my brass.
check out the new articles on the precision rifle blog very interesting work being done on bullet jump.

 

[jarrington282]

I would anneal after every firing, for a few reasons.
1. A regular Hornady full length sizing die will work the brass ALOT, which isn’t great for it and will lead to faster splitting of necks.
2. It will create more consistent neck tension, which in turn creates better accuracy and more importantly, more consistent velocities.
3. In theory it won’t matter if a piece of brass has 2 firings or 10 firings, they should all size, load, and shoot the same. (This means no more need to keep everything segregated by number of firings. Trust me, this gets super annoying after a while).
4. Your brass looks cool. Which will make you feel better about yourself, and when you feel better about yourself and your gear, you are more like shoot well. A large part of shooting is psychological.
5. Annealing doesn’t have to be expensive. I’ll attach a picture of my setup below.

Now you're talking my lingo! I will definitely look into this... 5 seconds of a low spin?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Now you're talking my lingo! I will definitely look into this... 5 seconds of a low spin?

There are a lot of factors that go into it. If you want to know for certain, get some 750 degree tempilaq and test a few cases. Once you have an average, just run them all the same. I use a metronome app on my phone to stay consistent. 5-7 seconds is within the realm of normal.

 

[Chernobyl]

I use the drill method as well. Works just as good in my opinion

 

[ditter]

Brass: Lapua SRP, also have Norma LRP. But the Lapua numbers are a good deal better. Use Hornady brass for foulingshots
Primers: CCI BR-4
Powder: Only used H4350, but when I ran low, I bought two pounds of RL-16. It shoots just as good as H4350. If you cant find H 4350, you can absolutely rely on RL-16.
Bullets: Ive shot just about every bullet in 140 grains. Ive shot some of my best groups with Nosler RDFs at 100 yards, but I dont see the same consistency at 500+ yards. As of now, I shoot the ELD Match 140's and they shoot lights out. I've tried Bergers as well, but I dont really see them shooting better than the Hornadys.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Hornady brass has worked fine for me.
H4350, RL16, Staball 6.5, Hybrid 100v,
Any 140 is good. Nosler RDF and Hornady make a decent inexpensive HPBT that work great.

You can find a 200rd boxes of Hornady American Gunner match for as low as $75 per round, it shoots great and then you get to save the brass. Win/win

Fyi, they use 41.6gr of Hybrid 100V under a 140 HPBT.

 

[ericj110380]

So I just weighed and measured from the ogive 200 Nosler RDF 130 gr and I only ended up with 69 total bullets. These things are all over the map. It is crazy how inconsistent these are.

 

[Jordanwickham]

So I just weighed and measured from the ogive 200 Nosler RDF 130 gr and I only ended up with 69 total bullets. These things are all over the map. It is crazy how inconsistent these are.

Yeah those things are all over the damn road.. well the 140s are what I messed with. Bought a box of 500. Sumbitches are fireforming/plinking rounds.

 

[LostInJersey]

Brass: Lapua SRP, also have Norma LRP. But the Lapua numbers are a good deal better. Use Hornady brass for foulingshots
Primers: CCI BR-4
Powder: Only used H4350, but when I ran low, I bought two pounds of RL-16. It shoots just as good as H4350. If you cant find H 4350, you can absolutely rely on RL-16.
Bullets: Ive shot just about every bullet in 140 grains. Ive shot some of my best groups with Nosler RDFs at 100 yards, but I dont see the same consistency at 500+ yards. As of now, I shoot the ELD Match 140's and they shoot lights out. I've tried Bergers as well, but I dont really see them shooting better than the Hornadys.

Pretty much everywhere I read on loads using RL-16, it seems to match H4350 in grains per velocity, maybe a tenth of a grain difference. Except everyone seems to suggest RL-16 can be pushed a little harder. Anyone able to confirm?

 

[ditter]

From what I've seen, they are very close.
I get 2805 with 41.4 of 4350. I get 2795 with 41.3 of RL-16. Both from a 26 inch bartlein.

This load shoot awesome for me out past 500 yards, so I have no reason to push any higher.

 

[rifledoc]

From what I've seen, they are very close.
I get 2805 with 41.4 of 4350. I get 2795 with 41.3 of RL-16. Both from a 26 inch bartlein.

This load shoot awesome for me out past 500 yards, so I have no reason to push any higher.

That's a great velocity for the h4350, are you shooting 140gr? I need a reload for a 26in MPA barrel with the 140gr berger bullets!

 

[ditter]

I load for myself and a buddy.
41.4 h4350 with berger 140 hybrid for him.
41.3 RL16 with140 ELDM for me.
RPR with a 26" Bartlein Barrel.