D_TROS

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  • Aug 19, 2010
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    HAVE any of you tried the super slow powders in the 244 Remington (6mm Rem, 6-257 Roberts, 6-7x57 Mauser)?

    The research I have done on this site is mostly the 6 Crusader. I want more info on 6mm Rem but any input on other AI 6mm calibers will be appreciated (esp barrrel life - velocities - feeding from an AW mag)


    Seems the latest craze is using larger capacity cases with slow burning powder to dramatically increase the barrel life. Sounds legit to me.

    Example: 6 Competition Match, 6 Crudsader, 6AI, 243 AI, etc.. with either 50 gr H1000 or Retumbo. This should not only give decent volicities, it should have excellent case life (15 +/- doing neck sizing - anneal every 5 reloads with a full length size) and excellent barrel life. Reported velocities of 3200-3300 is not uncommon from my research, so my SWAG is a 6mm Rem with a shorter barrel should get at least 2900-3000 fps (my goal)

    I have 3 friends shooting the 6 Comp MAtch (practically a 243 AI), and one has reported 4000 rounds before rebarreling with the slow powders.

    Now im on the fence for a competition rifle in either 6xc, 243, or 6 rem (dont want to do fire forming) All the matches I shoot have a 3150 velocity limit so hot rodding it is not an option. My goal is to shoot the 115 dtacs from 2900-3000 from a 22" barrel( i realize this limits the velocity cause of slow burning powders, but shorter barrel is more important than a fast bullet). I will be using an AW mag, and for those not familiar, they give me an OAL of 2.98, so I will be able to load pretty long. Also, I will be using a short action with AW cut to utilize these mags.

    the good thing about the slow powders is the low heat/pressure. I am pretty sure I wont be able to cram enough H1000 into a case to reach pressure, but if anyone can do a quickload I would appreciate it. from what research I have done, and it has been extensive, I am anitcipating 47-50 grains of powder to be used in the 6mm Rem case.

    I like the 6mm rem case because it is steeper shouldered than the 243, and also a longer neck. Should help in the barrel life department.

    SO, if anyone has any thoughts, concerns, experience, etc with 6mm and slow powder, short barrels and slow powder, I would greatly appreciate some input.

    I have a 22" 338LM that I love (92 gr H1000 pushes 300SMK @ 2720) with good results. Hoping the slow powder/short barrel works out for a smaller cal.

    The majority of my research of the 6mm Rem people have been using light weight bullets, long barrels, at super high velocities with fast burning powder. That is not my goal. My goal is 2900+ fps and a barrel life of 2500+ rnds.

    Thanks again,
    DT
     

    rth1800

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  • Sep 16, 2009
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    Have you considered the 6mm SLR. It is easy to form, can make in one pass from Lapua .243 Win brass, 30 deg shoulder and long 6mm type neck. Push the 115 DTAC 3100. See Robert Whitley web site. It is very well thought out and mag length will work ect.
     

    Quack303Head

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    Apr 6, 2011
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    DT,

    I can barely hit 3000 fps with a 26 in barrel and 115s using h1000 in my CM without pressure issues. Best way to go is 105's @3100. You make up for wind loss shooting 100 fps faster. With a 22 in barrel will really make that difficult.

    Using AW mags, I believe the rib on the mag will mess up feeding with the 6MM rem.

    Still wondering why you care so much about burning out the barrel... Your a speed whore anyways!
     

    varmint slayer

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    Apr 17, 2010
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    DT,

    I can barely hit 3000 fps with a 26 in barrel and 115s using h1000 in my CM without pressure issues. Best way to go is 105's @3100. You make up for wind loss shooting 100 fps faster. With a 22 in barrel will really make that difficult.

    Using AW mags, I believe the rib on the mag will mess up feeding with the 6MM rem.

    Still wondering why you care so much about burning out the barrel... Your a speed whore anyways!

    Maybe he is a reformed speed whore lol...
     

    Krebaum

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    Oct 4, 2005
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    I have been using Viht N-165 with 105 Berger Hybrids in a 243 with 26" barrel. Running a mild load @ 3010 fps with very good accuracy. Viht N-165 has one of the lowest temperature rates there is.
     

    D_TROS

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  • Aug 19, 2010
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    Have you considered the 6mm SLR. It is easy to form, can make in one pass from Lapua .243 Win brass, 30 deg shoulder and long 6mm type neck. Push the 115 DTAC 3100. See Robert Whitley web site. It is very well thought out and mag length will work ect.

    I have (for those not familiar Super LR)

    actually reviewed it last night. looks very tempting for sure. Know anyone who actually has one? Might be an idea with 4831SC for the shorter barrel. this may have moved to the top of my list.


    Still wondering why you care so much about burning out the barrel... Your a speed whore anyways!

    haha busted. I care due to match restrictions. otherwise I'd just hit it wide open.


    I have been using Viht N-165 with 105 Berger Hybrids in a 243 with 26" barrel. Running a mild load @ 3010 fps with very good accuracy. Viht N-165 has one of the lowest temperature rates there is.

    I thought VV powders were temp sensitive?? (or is that RL?? ha) I know H1000 has chrono'd same for me over that temp range (within my ES/SD of my shitty reloading skills).
    Its not uncommon in CO to be shooting in the morning at 20* and 80* by afternoon.
    Either way, thats right in the ballpark where I want to be velocity wise. I thinking 2900 with the 115 or 3000 with the 105 would be a lights out package for a match cartridge. what round count you have on your barrel? expected life?


    Im not terribly concerned with barrel life, but I want at least 2k rounds.

    Regards,
    DT
     

    rth1800

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  • Sep 16, 2009
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    DT,
    I almost have a 6mm SLR.
    I have dies, formed brass, reamer and a 6mm BR IMP to re chamber. Will be shooting it in a few weeks. My rifle is a Borden repeater with a Bartlien barrel. I will also be doing another one on a Surgeon. I have shot the 6mm/243's for longer than I care to think about and I think this one is the ticket. For all the reasons mentioned. Brass, neck length shoulder angel, capacity etc. I have shot everything from 6BR to 244 H&H so have used most of them. Good luck and let me know if you want to use the reamer.
    RTH
     

    Quack303Head

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    Apr 6, 2011
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    Dorgan,

    I'd call up KevinU. His SLR shot out in about 1300 rounds using Short Cut. Don't know if it was a bad barrel or what, but food for thought. If you really want a 22in barrel your going to have to use hot powder to get any significant velocity. A XC might be your ticket, send Tom an email he shot one for a couple of years and there is no dreaded FF process.
     

    Krebaum

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    Oct 4, 2005
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    I thought VV powders were temp sensitive?? (or is that RL?? ha) I know H1000 has chrono'd same for me over that temp range (within my ES/SD of my shitty reloading skills).
    Its not uncommon in CO to be shooting in the morning at 20* and 80* by afternoon.
    Either way, thats right in the ballpark where I want to be velocity wise. I thinking 2900 with the 115 or 3000 with the 105 would be a lights out package for a match cartridge. what round count you have on your barrel? expected life?


    Im not terribly concerned with barrel life, but I want at least 2k rounds.

    Regards,
    DT


    I am not sure how temperature sensitive N-165 is, it is a single based powder, I need to do some more chrono work. I would stay with H-1000 if you wanted the best for temperature sensitivity. I tested some H-1000 in the .243 and it did very well also. I only have 1000rnds through the barrel and it looks very good with little throat erosion. Barrel life should be very good, it has a lower heat index then H-1000 and only running around 54k pressure.
     

    KevinU

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    Dorgan,

    I'd call up KevinU. His SLR shot out in about 1300 rounds using Short Cut. Don't know if it was a bad barrel or what, but food for thought. If you really want a 22in barrel your going to have to use hot powder to get any significant velocity. A XC might be your ticket, send Tom an email he shot one for a couple of years and there is no dreaded FF process.

    Shot out in 970 rds. 26" barrel, 42 4831SC/Dtacs @ 2970. Maybe a bum barrel?
     
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    Deleted member 10043

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    Old thread that came up on researching. I'm going to try H1000 for .244 Remington I recently cobbled together.
     

    steve123

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    Mar 16, 2008
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    Interesting???

    That's my load in 6x47L, 3010 fps, barrel is melonited and shooting great at 2300 rounds.

    That barrel lasted 2900 rounds BTW.

    My current barrel is going south right now at 1600 rounds but it's not Melonited .

    In both barrels I was using 4831sc.

    FYI, H1000 was too slow for the x47? case, I tried it and ES was high, fps low. I think H1000 is a good idea for the bigger 6mm's.
     

    FishDr

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  • Apr 10, 2014
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    Considering a 243 build myself for this very reason. Second guessing whether a 6SLR would be a better route.
     

    pyrotechnic

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    Just another data point.

    24" Brux barrel, melonited
    .243 Winchester
    H1000 48.3gr
    105 Amax at 3070fps

    At 1800 rounds I took the barrel off as velocity had been dropping over the last range sessions and was at 2850. Still shot pretty well though.
     
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    Deleted member 10043

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    I've found in the .244 Rem that the range for H1000 is 47-50(C) grains shooting 107 SMK w/ match primer lights out anywhere within that range. That is MV 3000-3250. No signs of pressure. Absolute pleasure to shoot. I'm going to use 48.8 gr. with match primer and call it. 28" barrel.
     
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    reubenski

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    I'm at 1500rds on my second SLR and its still shooting great. The first 1K rds was RL26 and the last 500 have been 4831sc. During load development I was easily able to put enough h1000 in to get 3100. It just wasn't as accurate as RL26. I have been running this barrel at 3000fps with DTACs.

    I sold the first SLR barrel with 900rds on it bc Kevin U told me about his experience. I ran it between 3000 and 3050. It was still shooting when I sold it.

    Jumped on the Dasher bandwagon for 2 barrels. The Dasher was everything people said it was. Accurate, easy to develop a load, low recoil, prone to malfunction in a stage. Except barrel life. Haven't gotten a barrel past 1500rds yet. I started running the SLR again for prone field matches and shooting the Dasher in barricade PRS points matches.

    Going back to the SLR has been great. The Winchester brass has been excellent. I had to cull a few initially. Deburred the flash holes. Turned the necks to .0145 although there was really no need. I was just brass-worshipping. I have 5 to 6 firings on them and they're holding up. Be careful though, 6 Creed looks real similar. I picked up a 6 Creed at a match, tumbled, loaded on the Dillon, and fire formed one apparently into a short necked SLR, LOL! Caught it while annealing the second go around.

    I considered switching to 6 Creed bc I'm not nearly using the case capacity of the SLR. Figured downsizing at the same speed would increase my SD's and I'd have a better variety of brass. I bought two Proof barrels to chamber in 6CREED. A 22" carbon for a hunting build and a 26" steel for match gun replacement. The hunting build got done first. I hit pressure at 2900 with DTACs in Lapua and Peterson brass! Alpha brass gave me 2850 using the same load and no pressure. Could be a slow barrel with the bore on the tighter side. But I'm not going to risk it. The replacement match barrel is going SLR. My goal is to run a DTAC at 45 - 50K PSI, get an honest 2000rds, and feed out of a mag flawlessly. The SLR does that. (So far, we'll see when the barrel goes south)

    Random thoughts from a 6mm whore that is a veteran of the cartridge selection circle jerk.

    Edit: more random thoughts; I ve been considering recently going to a straight 243W. The SLR is definitely what the 243 should have been. Better designed shoulder and neck. The SLR has a. 300" neck and the common mag fed reamer is a .075" freebore. I haven't come anywhere close to using all that neck. Actually not even a 1/4 of it yet so having to deal with the shorter neck of the 243 probably wouldn't be an issue and one would gain the use of all those fancy brasslets.
     
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    SAPenguin

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    interesting - i'm using a short - throated 6 Creedmoor, 44.5gr of H1000 and that gets me to 2930fps with a 115 DTAC, out of a 26" barrel. Using Alpha brass. I think the combo of short throat, thick brass, all reduce the volume inside the cartridge, thereby raising pressures, and giving me speed with the slow powder.
     

    LawnMM

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    I wonder how necking down 6.5 PRC to 6mm would do with H1000 or Retumbo.
     

    reubenski

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    interesting - i'm using a short - throated 6 Creedmoor, 44.5gr of H1000 and that gets me to 2930fps with a 115 DTAC, out of a 26" barrel. Using Alpha brass. I think the combo of short throat, thick brass, all reduce the volume inside the cartridge, thereby raising pressures, and giving me speed with the slow powder.
    I agree. What do you guess your chamber pressure is like?