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Range Report A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Eaglet

Eaglet

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 16, 2008
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Nevada
A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

I have created a small application that uses most of the equations found in the book

Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting by
Bryan Litz

I find it very useful and it sure is a great tool to get very close values for BC7, BC1 from measurements of a long range bullet. There are various equations that are fun to use.

It's a very simple straight forward application that would be useful for some of the long range shooting addicts. :)

It's only for the Windows Platform, unfortunately.

Download the zipped file named "readme.zip". When you unzip it there will be two files, one is the ".exe" application and the other one is the readme.text file.

Please read the short readme.text file before you run it.

You don't have to install it; I recommend you drop the ".exe" file on your desk top and your ready to go after checking the readme.text file.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jomoncada/Eaglet_Ballistics/eaglet_ballistics.zip

Those interested in receiving updates please e-mail me at [email protected] In the Subject box write: Eaglet Ballistic Calcs

Those that received this as an e-mail will automatically receive the updates, but if you are not interested just
e-mail me and I will remove you from the mailing list.

As a man of honor and a minister I assure you your e-mails will only be used by others if I get killed first!

Sincerely,

Javier O Moncada

 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

You may want to check with Bryan first to see if you are breaking any copyright or intellectual property laws by reproducing and distributing formulas from the book in an application. If its free, I dont believe its an issue but im not sure. If you start charging money, then I believe there may be issues but once again, Im not sure.

Its just better to be safe then sorry.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dareposte</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool program, it's a bit too big to fit on my laptop screen though, some of it hangs off the bottom!

</div></div>

I'm working on that...

Keep checking!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may want to check with Bryan first to see if you are breaking any copyright or intellectual property laws by reproducing and distributing formulas from the book in an application. If its free, I dont believe its an issue but im not sure. If you start charging money, then I believe there may be issues but once again, Im not sure.

Its just better to be safe then sorry. </div></div>

Way before I got the application the way I'm distributing now, Mr. Litz received an e-mail from me
with an unfinished and still rough looking attached file of the application, stating about my intentions.
He gave me some advices as to certain things that I would need to do and change. I only regret that I did
not do it using Java which it'd make it multi-platform.

From the e-mail I received from him I could tell he is a gentleman and had he had any problems he would
have advised me right away.

Mr. Litz also was one of the first to receive a copy of the application being distributed. Aside from
Exposing his Book a hole lot more, it's also useful to the the shooting community.

Thank you for your concern. You may use it without worries!

Remember, his formulas are not being exposed. You want to see them you've got to buy the book like I did.
In fact, those that have his book are the ones that would better understand the application.

Thanks again!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

You should add a calculation that calculates MOA given distance and shot spread in inches.

And you need to take me to lunch. I still have a tool for you in my truck.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may want to check with Bryan first to see if you are breaking any copyright or intellectual property laws </div></div>

I commend Eaglet for his valuable work, and don't mind at all that this is being distributed. The program is a very good companion to my book, making the math even easier to apply.

-Bryan
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: geargrinder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should add a calculation that calculates MOA given distance and shot spread in inches.

And you need to take me to lunch. I still have a tool for you in my truck. </div></div>

My friend, I think I will take you and you will pay unless the tool is a worthy tool! :)
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Changes have been made to allow the application to run
in smaller resolution screens. Just download it from the
same link above and replace the old file with the new.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

thanxs looks awesome i have the book awaiting me back home this will be nice to use in conjunction. im surprised bryan has no problems with it that is awefuly conciderate of him... thanx again
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hue001t</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanxs looks awesome i have the book awaiting me back home this will be nice to use in conjunction. im surprised bryan has no problems with it that is awefuly conciderate of him... thanx again </div></div>

Yes, the book is a must have!

You're welcome!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Eaglet-

This is a great little application, I was talking about building this myself, although I'm a Fortran/Matlab coder, I know nothing about Java... it wouldn't have been very user friendly.

Thanks for the work you put into this.

EDIT: I had the wrong BT length in there, crisis averted.

 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eaglet-

This is a great little application, I was talking about building this myself, although I'm a Fortran/Matlab coder, I know nothing about Java... it wouldn't have been very user friendly.

Thanks for the work you put into this.

EDIT: I had the wrong BT length in there, crisis averted.

</div></div>
You're welcome! Glad you figured it out.
It was programmed in Visual Basic .NET but
I should have done it in Java. Thing is I get
rusty when I don't do it with certain frequency. :)
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I commend Eaglet for his valuable work, and don't mind at all that this is being distributed. The program is a very good companion to my book, making the math even easier to apply.

-Bryan
</div></div>

That, and the advice Bryan gave to the OP, says a lot about Bryan and Berger bullets.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Berger bullets distributes free a very compact and accurate ballistic program Bryan wrote. It rocks.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Ballistics%20Program/index.html

With his book, the testing he has done to develop G7 BCs, his program, and his articles on his website, has done much to advance the application of ballistic science.

We all own him a debt of gratitude.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We all own him a debt of gratitude.</div></div>

Indeed we do. Bryan, where do we send the various assorted packages of wild game meat?
grin.gif
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Berger bullets distributes free a very compact and accurate ballistic program Bryan wrote. It rocks.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Ballistics%20Program/index.html

With his book, the testing he has done to develop G7 BCs, his program, and his articles on his website, has done much to advance the application of ballistic science.

We all own him a debt of gratitude.
</div></div>

I reckon that is truth! <span style="font-weight: bold">+1</span>
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

It should be a requirement to develop all these programs for Macs first, then the inferior, PC based dinosaurs.

Just an idea.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

A lot of people think Macs are superior because they are more secure. This guy doesn't think so:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20002317-245.html?tag=nl.e703

In addition, Macs are not on the leading edge of PC performance any more.

As one pro system builder said recently:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love the Mac OS, but, Apple has fallen behind in raw CPU performance. The Core I7 extreme system I can build for $2500 smokes the fastest Mac Pro. </div></div>

So, what people believe about Apple systems may not be current or accurate.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Also....I find it amazing that anyone can complain about something that is free......the product of effort and unsolicited generosity by an individual.

Thanks for sharing your work, Eaglet!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

You're welcome, Rafael!

Lindy, that was a good read. I enjoyed that!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Dear Folks,

The OGW box was not calculating the varmint weight correctly.
It was, of course, my bad. I also added to the info section seen
when you right click on the underlined portion.

just download from the link and replace the file.
My thanks to the person who caught it and e-mailed me. I don't
know his name. "I have a strong feeling is a 'He' ".

Please excuse me for the inconvenience.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jomoncada/Eaglet_Ballistic_Calcs/readme.zip

Sincerely,

Javier Moncada
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Lindy, Mac is more secure because (a) its OS is better designed and written, and (b) it's targeted much less. Maiffret "reveals" that the biggest threat comes now through desktop applications. What a news! Microsoft Office and Adobe products have been the leaders in the number of security holes, especially on Windows platforms for a decade. And in general I'd not consider what I see on CNET as Gospel.

Bryan, great book! When time allows (and if nobody beats me to it) I'll write a platform-independent program (in Java probably) implementing the math that you put in your book.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

Being targeted less doesn't make it more secure.

It just means that the virus writers haven't gotten around to it yet. And that's no surprise, as Apple is in 5th place in the U.S. PC market with less than 10 percent of the total, and the virus writers are looking for maximum impact.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And in general I'd not consider what I see on CNET as Gospel.</div></div>

Ad hominem attack. It might be more useful, if you want to have a serious discussion, to impeach the data, not the source.

I could say the same thing, though, about computer discussions on shooting boards.

But I'm not really interested in having a serious discussion on this subject, because Apple owners consistently get hysterical when someone casts aspersions on their systems.
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Being targeted less doesn't make it more secure.</div></div>
From practical point of view - i.e. the actual penetrations vs. what could-be/would-be/if-only-attackers-really-cared etc?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It just means that the virus writers haven't gotten around to it yet. And that's no surprise, as Apple is in 5th place in the U.S. PC market with less than 10 percent of the total, and the virus writers are looking for maximum impact.</div></div>
If it were as simple as the article writer implies - how come nobody (in the Underworld
smile.gif
) grabs that 9% of the market? 9% of a multi-billion pie is not enough? <span style="font-style: italic">AMD seems happy staying in business with 10% server market (and 23% desktop market).</span>

And there usually are some fine details not mentioned in the articles - like the attacker needs to install a specific 3rd-party driver for a specific device for the attack to work, etc.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It might be more useful, if you want to have a serious discussion, to impeach the data, not the source.</div></div>
Such as Apple OS being based on TrustedBSD - a secure (and Open Source!) version of FreeBSD, well-proven operating system? Or such as McAfee signatures containing a whopping 2 (two) Mac OS X viruses - the rest are for Windows stuff? Or the difference in handling administrative rights & accounts?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I'm not really interested in having a serious discussion on this subject, because Apple owners consistently get hysterical when someone casts aspersions on their systems.</div></div>
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Not</span> goading you into prolonging this discussion - especially since this is not the right place for a serious computer-related debate (note that I'm not passing comments on Windows users).

For those who care to hear what Wiki has to say about Mac viruses (note the distinction between Mac OS Classic - the older one, and Mac OS X - the later versions based on BSD Unix). It also mentions Unix & Linux viruses (another bunch of arrogant and mostly virus-immune users).

<span style="font-style: italic">As of 2006, there are relatively few security exploits targeting Mac OS X (with a Unix-based file system and kernel). The number of viruses for the older Apple operating systems, known as Mac OS Classic, varies greatly from source to source, with Apple stating that there are only four known viruses, and independent sources stating there are as many as 63 viruses. Many Mac OS Classic viruses targeted the HyperCard authoring environment. Virus vulnerability between Macs and Windows is a chief selling point, one that Apple uses in their Get a Mac advertising. In January 2009, Symantec announced discovery of a trojan that targets Macs. This discovery did not gain much coverage until April 2009.

While Linux, and Unix in general, has always natively blocked normal users from having access to make changes to the operating system environment, Windows users are generally not. This difference has continued partly due to the widespread use of administrator accounts in contemporary versions like XP. In 1997, when a virus for Linux was released – known as "Bliss" – leading antivirus vendors issued warnings that Unix-like systems could fall prey to viruses just like Windows. The Bliss virus may be considered characteristic of viruses – as opposed to worms – on Unix systems. Bliss requires that the user run it explicitly (so it is a trojan), and it can only infect programs that the user has the access to modify. Unlike Windows users, most Unix users do not log in as an administrator user except to install or configure software; as a result, even if a user ran the virus, it could not harm their operating system. The Bliss virus never became widespread, and remains chiefly a research curiosity. Its creator later posted the source code to Usenet, allowing researchers to see how it worked.</span>
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Responded in P.M.
</div></div>

Lindy, be gentle!
 
Re: A SMALL CONTRIBUTION TO THE SHOOTING COMMUNITY

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eaglet, thank you for this update.

I was going to write one for myself but I suppose I don't have to now. </div></div>

You're welcome! Glad to do it!
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

i love the scripture verse on the bottom of the program.

well done Sir!!
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

Awesome program Sir.

Is there a formula to calculate the Rt/R ratio?

I am trying to convert the G1 BC of a JLK 75gr VLD to G7 but I need that one piece to complete the puzzle.
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Loadthis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome program Sir.

Is there a formula to calculate the Rt/R ratio?

I am trying to convert the G1 BC of a JLK 75gr VLD to G7 but I need that one piece to complete the puzzle. </div></div>

That's a good question. It's not easy to calculate that number but If you have Bryan's book, it has a bunch of diagrams with bunch of info., but if you get a bullet that you don't have info for, then by using his diagrams you can go through many of them and pretty much by comparison give your new bullet a Rt/R value that would put you real close.
The thing to remember is that this process would not be too complicated because the value for Rt/R would be a value between 0.5 and 1.0

Now, if you have a good G1 BC for your bullet, by multiplying it by 0.512 you would get a fairly accurate G7 BC; the problem is that you would need a BC1 that would be an average for all velocities from 1500 ft/sec to 3000 ft/sec.

Maybe one of these day Bryan Litz would give us a formula for Rt/R... :)
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

Eaglet, I was under the impression that Rt/R is

Rt = Tangent Ogive Radius for a given Ogive length

R = Actual Ogive radius

IE. A perfectly tangent ogive that meets the bearing surface in a geometrically perfect tangent point will have an Rt/R = 1.0

If you have a Secant Ogive that's 18 calibers and 0.75" long, and you made an imaginary Tangent Ogive curve that resulted in a 0.75" long ogive, you now can calculate the Rt/R ratio.

Lets say for sake of argument that the 0.75" long tangent ogive ends up being 10 calibers in radius

Rt/R = 10/18 = ~.55 (I don't have a handy calculator)


EDIT: I'm assuming this is what it meant, I"m not saying that I'm correct. Hopefully Bryan can inform us.
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

I went to JBM Ballistics website and using the Drag/Twist Calculator I input the dimentions and properties of the JLK 75gr VLD and it produced an Rt/R of .539 and calculated a G7 BC of .214. This BC is exactly the same as the BC in Bryans book for the Berger 75gr VLD. The Rt/R doesn't match and the dimentions are different between the two but, the BC is the same, according to the JBM Calc.

Not sure how accurate this is. The JLK is very similar to the Berger.
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eaglet, I was under the impression that Rt/R is

Rt = Tangent Ogive Radius for a given Ogive length <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099">Right! The imaginary Tangent Radius that would fit the existing
bullet ogive for its particular length! </span></div></div>

R = Actual Ogive radius <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099">Correct!</span> </div></div>

IE. A perfectly tangent ogive that meets the bearing surface in a geometrically perfect tangent point will have an Rt/R = 1.0 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099">Exactly!</span> </div></div>

If you have a Secant Ogive that's 18 calibers and 0.75" long, and you made an imaginary Tangent Ogive curve that resulted in a 0.75" long ogive, you now can calculate the Rt/R ratio. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099">Agreed! If you have them!</span> </div></div>

Lets say for sake of argument that the 0.75" long tangent ogive ends up being 10 calibers in radius

Rt/R = 10/18 = ~.55 (I don't have a handy calculator) <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #000099">0.555, yes! close enough!</span> </div></div>


EDIT: I'm assuming this is what it meant, I"m not saying that I'm correct. Hopefully Bryan can inform us.
</div></div>
<span style="color: #990000">To the best of my understanding you're right on the money. The problem is in finding the exact dimension for both radii.</span>
Rt/R really means "how secant an ogive is", as you said, if it's equal to 1 then it's perfectly tangent; if it's 0.5 it's a very aggressive secant ogive and would also be the lowest practical value. Lower values than 0.5 BC starts suffering. Rt/R = 0 is a traight cone.
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Loadthis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went to JBM Ballistics website and using the Drag/Twist Calculator I input the dimentions and properties of the JLK 75gr VLD and it produced an Rt/R of .539 and calculated a G7 BC of .214. This BC is exactly the same as the BC in Bryans book for the Berger 75gr VLD. The Rt/R doesn't match and the dimentions are different between the two but, the BC is the same, according to the JBM Calc.

Not sure how accurate this is. The JLK is very similar to the Berger. </div></div>

Interesting, I'll visit them. Thanks!
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

Eaglet, thanks for the clarification, good to know I wasn't off in left field smelling the dandelions.

The radii can be measured with a cheapie way I did it once was to draw some circles on paper and cut out sections of various radii (based on known caliber ratios. IE 10cal circle, 12 cal circle, etc) and match them up to get me in the ball park.

Splitting the difference between 16 and 20 cal circle gets you to 18, then 18 to 20 got me to 19, then 18 and 19.0 gave me 18.5 at which point I couldn't tell anything further. According to Bryan's appendix the bullet was an 18.48 (JLK 140 6.5mm)

It took me about an hour of work, but it served it's purpose.

For the sake of designing a bullet or a new set of dies, I was doing a little playing with Solidworks to make the needed jumps in geometry.
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

bohem,
That's very cool!!! I like the way you think.

That hour is worth it in my opinion. Nice work!

I need to review my geometry, but I do enjoy all that stuff.

Thanks for sharing your work!
 
Re: Version 2.0.0.0 is out!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eaglet, I was under the impression that Rt/R is

Rt = Tangent Ogive Radius for a given Ogive length

R = Actual Ogive radius

IE. A perfectly tangent ogive that meets the bearing surface in a geometrically perfect tangent point will have an Rt/R = 1.0

If you have a Secant Ogive that's 18 calibers and 0.75" long, and you made an imaginary Tangent Ogive curve that resulted in a 0.75" long ogive, you now can calculate the Rt/R ratio.

Lets say for sake of argument that the 0.75" long tangent ogive ends up being 10 calibers in radius

Rt/R = 10/18 = ~.55 (I don't have a handy calculator)


EDIT: I'm assuming this is what it meant, I"m not saying that I'm correct. Hopefully Bryan can inform us. </div></div>

Thanks Bohem that puts it into perspective for me.
 
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