Hunting & Fishing African Plains-game bullet selection. Can the Bergers do the Job??

[WallNutt]

Planning a Plains-game hunt for Summer 2015. This will sound crazy to some but I plan to do it with my LongRifles Inc 6.5 Creedmoor. Found several articles on the web where this caliber has been used with great success on African game as large as the Eland (2000+lbs). Everything Ive read showcased the Hornady GMX or Nosler Partition pills.

My questions - Ive heard these solid copper bullets are sometimes tough to tune and make accurate. Anyone have firsthand knowledge with the solid copper bullets? The rifle shoots lights out with Bergers and they have served me well on whitetails, but we are talking about much larger animals and Im not sure they can get the job done. Does anyone have experience with African game and smaller caliber bullets?? Planning to take Zebra, Kudu, W-Beest, and smaller game.

**Not interested in other caliber selections, as it has been done with this caliber several times.....Any help, other than telling me to take a bigger gun, will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Nortex]

Have you thought about trying the Accubond or the new Accubond LR?

 

[teamvit]

I have not made it to Africa myself but a few close friends have. I know for sure two used Barnes, they were able to get them to shoot just fine. Also the longest shot any of them took was 250yds. I am sure you can shoot farther if you'd like but close shots are doable

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I wrote a long email, reread your post, and am amending to this:
I took Barnes TTSX and was very, very pleased. They shoot plenty accurate. Be ready to shoot off sticks and make quick shots.

You don't want advice on larger calibers, so I will offer none; however, I will tell you I took a 300WM and immediately came home and bought a 375H&H for my next trip. African plains game is tough, and I wouldn't take a shot at several animals on your list with anything under a hot 300WM. You usually write the check when you pull the trigger, and looking for wounded animals is no fun at all! You can kill almost anything with a 22LR, but why spend that kinda money to go to Africa and risk ruining the trip because you aren't taking enough gun.
Rhetorical question.

Have gun, and good luck.

 

[LegioX]

I've been over twice and have used the Barnes TTSX and Cutting Edge Raptors. Granted, these were in 375 H&H so there's a huge difference with a 6.5. I do know you want a bullet that'll hang together while causing as much trauma as possible. An exit wound is a plus as a blood trail can save your day.
My longest shots have been 240 & 260 yds, common to both hunting trips. In my experience the copper and brass bullets hold moa regardless of the rifle I use them in, plenty accurate for hunting PG. The African PG are tough as hell, I'd also recommend picking up this book...

The Perfect Shot: Mini Edition for Africa: Kevin Robertson, Doctari: 9781571572684: Amazon.com: Books

.....it can be a huge help, some of those animals carry their vitals higher and more forward than NA game.
Another word about the Cutting Edge bullets, they are called non-conventional for a reason. Most are lighter than a normal hunting bullet but are absolutely deadly.
The last trip we took to Namibia all animals were taken with one shot and not one of them took a single step, and only one was a spine shot.
As far as shooting LR, your PH will get you plenty close for an ethical shot. Unless you are whacking at baboons or jackals you probably won't be faced with a 300+ yd opportunity.
Hope this helps....
LX

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I agree on the book, pricey but well worth the money. Vitals are just different enough to make you really think about shot placement.

My longest was a blesbock at 386 yards, they just wouldn't let us get any closer, but most were 200 and in.

 

[WallNutt]

All good advice guys. So the read Im getting is forget the Bergers for sure and go solid copper such as Barnes/GMX. Already bought a nice set of sticks to practice on and will get the book, as Im working overseas and have time to read. I really don't see the need for more gun if you can put the bullet where you want it. I found an article by a gun writer who put a 120gr GMX all but thru an Eland that was pushing 2000 lbs. Said the bullet lodged just under the hide on the off side shoulder. That is 2.5-3 feet of tough ass muscle and bone. Killed him DRT. Article stated 5 guys all shooting 6.5 Creed, piled up over two dozen animals with the 6.5 120 GMX. I may shoot some culls with the Bergers just to see what gives.

@ LegioX - Where do you find the load data for the Cutting Edge bullets?

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I read some of the smaller caliber stuff, (hell, Weatherby himself took an elephant with a 257Weatherby Mag) and wish I had taken a smaller caliber for very small game (the 300WM did a number on the klipspringer - to say the least) and appreciate the "put the bullet where you want it"; however, bigger bullet moving faster offers some foregiveness on placement - and, at a few thousand dollars per animal, a little foregiveness is a good thing.
Confidence is a big part of it, but only a part.

On bullets, yes, forget the Bergers, they are very accurate (I run the hybrid hunters in my 243AI and love them) but they come apart quickly, and you need a bullet that stays together and makes a big hole.

Be very comfortable on sticks. And train to be ready fast! Before I went, I sought advice and one guy said "be ready for quick shots, average time of setup to squeeze was 5 seconds." I thought, "no way in hell", but then most of my shots were 5-10 seconds from PH saying shoot it, till the animal was gone or I was pulling the trigger. African PG are fast and skiddish, we saw several kudu that gave a broadside look for all of 5 seconds then were gone, never to be seen again. And impala are the real ball busters, spook one and they all run.

Last bit: limit your gear, but take a good pair of binos (I took a 10x42 and 6x32 and spent most of my time on the 6x32, wider field of view, more stable while moving in the open, and lighter weight.) I took way more than I needed, most of it stayed in camp.

One more thing: insurance, get good travel insurance. South Africa doesn't give a rat's ass about your bag or your good time, plan on loosing a bag, spread your essentials around. We were fortunate to lose nothing, but I heard many stories. I had full insurance on all gear for the trip as well as emergency evac insurance. It was a small price to pay for a little peace of mind.

 

[LegioX]

Wallnutt,
You can pretty much use the data for similar weight bullets in any data book as a starting point. Your best bet is to email CEB and ask them. They are very helpful. Generally their bullets have less friction in the bbl, allowing higher velocity with lower pressures.
Here's a pic of the rounds I used.

 

[glockdan78]

I have been running the barnes 145 lrx in my 280ackley. They have been very accurate 1/2-3/4 moa. They make a 6.5 127gr lrx that you might want to check out.

 

[Weaselthis]

I went to SA last year. 10 days- 16 animals. Posted a LENGTHY story here.: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-hunting-fishing/192858-africa-trip-may-2013-a.html
I lost a Gemsbok to a quartering away shot w/80 Bergers that I've taken MANY times on deer and a couple of elk. NEVER had a problem w/ Partitions. Did not get thru to the other side and we lost it. Down the drain w/ $1350. Ouch! But on the other side of the coin, everything else but a poorly hit Red Hartebeest, didn't go over 100 yds.. one shot each. 1800 lb. Eland, both wildebeest, other two Gemsbok, zebra (they are TOUGH).

edited from original post to include the duiker and black wildebeest AND I found the camera and chip in another bag. My bad, apologies to all the luggage handlers in LAX!:
Shot w/ 7mm/300WM & 180 Bergers 3050fps
1 Gray Duiker
1Kudu
2 Gemsbok (3 if you count the one I lost)
1 Red Hartebeest- 2nd shot required. Poor placement too far back (Don't shoot if they are moving!)
1 Eland
1 Blue Wildebeest
1 Black Wildebeest
1 Zebra
1 Impala

Shot w/ 7-08 & 140g Accubond 2060fps---all one shot kills:
1 Zebra
1 Gemsbok
1 Kudu
1 Impala
1 Springbok
1 Blesbok
.
Got a new bbl. for the 7/300. Looking strongly at the 175 AB.
You're gonna have a ball. Embrace ALL of it.....the good bad the ugly. It's all part of it.
Also, +1000 on getting your gear together and cutting it in half. Good luck!

 

[WallNutt]

Great feedback guys. I'm thinking 140 copper solids will do the job no prob. I've got a buddy going as well, bringing a .30 so I can use it if push comes to shove. I understand the " bring more gun theory" for sure. I'm going with this setup as a personal challenge and based on my research it is very doable. All of the critters are included in the package price, which is super value at $3500 in my book. I think 10 days will be more than enough time to pick my shots and collect my animals- at least I hope so. Hoping time will allow a couple extra as well. I may find I'm under gunned and look like an ass, but the outfitter says a 30-06 will easily cover all the species, so I don't think I'm too far off base. I feel like bullet selection and accuracy is far more crucial than big caliber. As someone already pointed out, many big things have been done with small caliber rifles.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Zebra, kudu, wildebeest, and small game - for $3500?

 

[rgrmike]

Typo on the fps or am I missing something? Just curious, not trying to be an ass.

Weaselthis "Shot w/ 7-08 & 140g Accubond 2060fps---all one shot kills:"

 

[WallNutt]

@ Rancid - The package is 10 days/5 trophies included (Zebra, WBeest, Bushbuck, Impala, Warthog) for $3500. Gonna add the Kudu for 1000. Thought this was a pretty good deal. Prob add a Blesbok and Hartebeest if time allows.

 

[Weaselthis]

Thanks for catching that. Sorry, should be 2650fps. Still not blazing but that was the BEST accuracy node w/ Varget and really did the job.

Typo on the fps or am I missing something? Just curious, not trying to be an ass.

Weaselthis "Shot w/ 7-08 & 140g Accubond 2060fps---all one shot kills:"

 

[Weaselthis]

I think you got a GREAT deal. Our daily rate was $350 for each hunter. Zebra-$1350 Wbeest-$1000 the other three were $400 each. Your Kudu price is a good one as well. Our Kudu was $1950 for under 55" and $2750 for over. Mine went 57" but he let me have it for the lower rate. Hell, we shot everything in sight.

If you can go for $4500 for 10 days and shoot those six animals, you got the daily rate free and a really great deal. Now the trick will be to resist every other animal that pops up. Your taxidermy fee and cost to get them home will be that much or more.

My advice is "Kill em all, let God sort em out!" But I'm 64 and don't know if I'll ever get to go back. I really want a hog of a waterbuck if there is a next time. Good luck! You're gonna have a great time and because you ARE a hunter, you will never be the same after.

@ Rancid - The package is 10 days/5 trophies included (Zebra, WBeest, Bushbuck, Impala, Warthog) for $3500. Gonna add the Kudu for 1000. Thought this was a pretty good deal. Prob add a Blesbok and Hartebeest if time allows.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

You got some very good advice in this thread, by some guys that have been before.

If I could offer ONE ( ok, it will be more than that ) piece of advice - forget everything you know about shot placement on North American animals, you WILL shoot too far back or too low/high, depending on the species. Read that Perfect Shot book, until it is engrained in your mind. EVERYONE I know, that hunts a lot here, misplaces shots there. It's hard to break the habit of hitting "the spot" on a whitetail or muley, when you see a kudu or gemsbok, and you will lose a few until you can recalibrate.

Easy rule for most African game, side on shot. Follow front leg up to torso in straight line, POI should be 1/3 of the way up that line on the torso, gets heart and lung almost every time. Too high, not going to kill it, may stun it and knock it down, but it will get up and run, get another bullet in it right away. The far aft drift, not going to even slow it down.

FWIW, I brought a 300 WM along w 375 and 416 first trip. The 300 doesn't make the trip anymore, no need for it, I can make shots out past 400 if needed with the 375, plus if something big and bad shows up, I prefer the 375 for defending against it ( thinking lions and buff, they live there, you are in their house). With good shot placement, you can even shoot impala/duiker/steinbok with 375 TSX and not mess them up. 6.5 CM is enough to get it done, but don't expect DRT very often, I can sure tell the difference between 300 and 375, at all ranges. Still dead, but more tracking work needed.

Bullets, I like the TSX, I have seen some accuracy issues with the GMX in the 6.5 Creed, not bad, but not as good as the TTSX. I really like the MRX, but sadly, it is not available any more. Also, if said bad creatures arrive, TSX is good for them too.

These animals in Africa aren't magic, they die too, they are not bullet proof. They are built differently, and everything everyday is a constant struggle for existence there. It makes for a much more hardy animal. I have shot zebras that escaped lions previously, which you would not think possible, but the healed scars show that it does happen. Good bullets placed well, do a great job, your PH and even more, the trackers will love it when things go Bang flop. They love a good shot, with a sport that has taken the time to learn the small things that make a difference.

Don't show up with a big rifle that has DGX in though, they'll likely have other ammo to shoot for you. Trophy Bonded BC, pretty popular also, seems to work well. CEB non-cons, not my thing, but they do seem to work well.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

They loved me for the suppressor too, if you have one, take it, PH and trackers will appreciate it!

 

[WallNutt]

@ Rancid......Did you have to do any extra paperwork to take the suppressor? My buddy and I both have them and talked about taking them if it was not gonna be a pain in the ass. I know SA is a super suppressor friendly country, just not sure about getting it out and back in to our country.

 

[Doomslayer]

I am from South Africa and have done my first winter hunt last week. If I can make a few suggestions:

1. For smaller bodied game, like blesbuck, impala, springbuck etc. any of the .20 calibres will work, upwards of .243. Few game farms will allow calibre smaller than .243. In S.A. .243 and .270 are very popular with ammo freely available. I myself shoot a .260 Remington with 140gr bullets with great success.
2. For larger animals preferably a .30 calibre - .30-06 very popular as well as .308, .300 winmag.
3. Big animals like eland - at least a 180gr bullet with bonded core i.e. accubond, swift a-frame, preferably heavier bullet than 180gr. Think 250-350gr. These are very large animals with big strong shoulder bones. With good shot placement you can kill one with a well placed shot from a .30-06, but anything smaller is folly in my opinion. These animals weigh as much as a full-grown cow and can easily jump over a 2meter high game fence without a running start. Once wounded - they can run all day.

If you are going to shoot in the flatter parts of the country like the Free State or Northern Cape provinces a .243, .260, .270 will serve you well. Shooting distances are usually 200-400m range.

If you are going to the bushveld - more densely wooded northern part of the country, I would recommend a .30 calibre or bigger.

Be ware of the BLue Wildebeest - it may look comical, but it has not been called the "poor man's buffalo" for no reason - it is not as aggressive as buffalo, but it is quite a tough animal and can sustain lots of punishment and still run away. I have shot one a few years ago at a range of 70meter with a .30-06 with 180gr nosler accubond. Good broadside shot, the animal was hit, and then started running. I picked up pieces of lung tissue that was blown out of the exit hole where it stood as I shot it, but it was gone into the bush. We tracked the blood spoor - it mannaged to run 1 kilometre in dense bush with a solid lun shot before it expired.

As a general rule I will say - "use enough gun". It is with good reason that the .375 Holland and Holland is considered an African all rounder as well as the .30-06.

 

[kyhuntclub]

I used the Nosler partition on a 7 mag to take 10 species over there in 2010.

 

[kyhuntclub]

I used the Nosler partition on a 7 mag to take 10 species over there in 2010. From the Duiker to the wildabeast.

 

[LegioX]

@ Rancid......Did you have to do any extra paperwork to take the suppressor? My buddy and I both have them and talked about taking them if it was not gonna be a pain in the ass. I know SA is a super suppressor friendly country, just not sure about getting it out and back in to our country.

Wallnut,
If I may jump in here, I took my can to Namibia last year. Here's a thread where I explained the process I went thru. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and we can chat.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...g-africa-suppressed-blood-gore-pic-heavy.html

 

[Okie Hunter]

I had the pleasure in 2012 spending 10 days in RSA taking 8 trophy animals . Shot everything from Steenbuck to Zebra / Kudu with a 338 Win mag 210 grain Barns TTSX at 2850 FPS.
Shot everything except the Steenbuck through the front shoulders. My PH’s favorite line “ The car cannot go if it does not have front wheels”.

 

[aaronraby1]

I used my 22-250 on duiker, jackal, klipspringer, porcupine, monkey and genet cat. needless to say, it may have been a bit much for the genet!

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

@ Rancid......Did you have to do any extra paperwork to take the suppressor? My buddy and I both have them and talked about taking them if it was not gonna be a pain in the ass. I know SA is a super suppressor friendly country, just not sure about getting it out and back in to our country.

I hunted around Zerust, some flat plains, some scrub, nice mix. I had zero issues with the suppressor. I put it in a sock in the rifle case, they looked at the sock and never even pulled the can out. I did take the US customs form that listed rifle, scope, and suppressor as my property as per US Customs (which I highly recommend.) Experiences vary, but they didn't look at my ammo either, just the serial on the rifle and the serial on the registration form. I did use the service (which I highly, HIGHLY recommend - as I probably would not have ever gotten my rifle back without them. Here is the link: Rifle Permits - In Support of Conservation Through Hunting. I watched my rifle get unloaded, went to the office, and waited more than an hour. By then, the throwers were saying "what rifle", it was gone, the riflepermits guy went back and found the rifle, sitting in a hall unattended, alone, with no markings or designation on the case, and brought it into the office. He later said he'd never seen that before but had no doubt it would have been gone shortly thereafter, and I would have been hunting a borrowed rifle.)