Alan Dershowitz claims you must take vaccination.

TheGerman

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Oh, and put me in the 'fuck your vaccine' camp.

Ill take my chances with something now shown to have a <1% chance of killing you over some bullshit that we have no idea about the long term effects of. Sounds like typical government where the fucking fix is worse than the problem. And we all know when its found out the vaccine causes cancer, dementia and all sorts of shit down the road, .gov will take full responsibility and take care of you, right? RIGHT??

Are we done overreacting to this shit yet? Are we all going to panic and shut down next year when people start getting the flu again?
 

pmclaine

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Oh, and put me in the 'fuck your vaccine' camp.

Ill take my chances with something now shown to have a <1% chance of killing you over some bullshit that we have no idea about the long term effects of. Sounds like typical government where the fucking fix is worse than the problem. And we all know when its found out the vaccine causes cancer, dementia and all sorts of shit down the road, .gov will take full responsibility and take care of you, right? RIGHT??

Are we done overreacting to this shit yet? Are we all going to panic and shut down next year when people start getting the flu again?

Nah, they are not done. There is too much pushback, even if minimal,. They will increase the BS.
 

Threadcutter308

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Oh, and put me in the 'fuck your vaccine' camp.

Ill take my chances with something now shown to have a <1% chance of killing you over a some bullshit that we have no idea of long term effects of. Sounds like typical government where the fucking fix is worse than the problem.

Are we done overreacting to this shit yet? Are we all going to panic and shut down next year when people start getting the flu again?
As far as round one of CV-19, it looks like we are starting down the backside of this thing and opening back up. However, there's an election coming up and all the screwballs will be out with gas cans and roadflares come about early to mid August. And, since round one has worked so well, we're going to see CV-20, 21, 22.....etc., etc., etc.
 

TheGerman

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As far as round one of CV-19, it looks like we are starting down the backside of this thing and opening back up. However, there's an election coming up and all the screwballs will be out with gas cans and roadflares come about early to mid August. And, since round one has worked so well, we're going to see CV-20, 21, 22.....etc., etc., etc.
I don't know, I don't see a lot of the panic crowd this time giving a shit next time short of total armageddon.

People have now lived through this and have seen how obscene it is let alone the effects it's had. Those that are still riding the 'Im poor and make more money on unemployment' train will come to that conculsion as soon as their free shit runs out, they saved absolutely $0 of it and there are no openings at Ruby Tuesday.

I think the thing we're actually getting immunity towards is giving a shit if this happens again.


eta - Think about it. What do you think most peoples' initial reaction would be if the MSM all of a sudden announced there was a new 'pandemic'? I honestly think most would say 'what the fuck ever' and resist any kind of shutdown.
 
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Threadcutter308

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I don't know, I don't see a lot of the panic crowd this time giving a shit next time short of total armageddon.

People have now lived through this and have seen how obscene it is let alone the effects it's had. Those that are still riding the 'Im poor and make more money on unemployment' train will come to that conculsion as soon as their free shit runs out, they saved absolutely $0 of it and there are no openings at Ruby Tuesday.

I think the thing we're actually getting immunity towards is giving a shit if this happens again.
I'm with you on that. But........I've seen so much unbridled stupidity running around loose since this whole shitshow started. I live in the greater Seattle area. King County just yesterday made it mandatory to wear masks in public. Uhhh......a little late to the party aren't you, hitler ?

I think the fires are going to be re-stoked mid to late summer and joe citizen is going to buy back into it again. However, I think it will be at a lower level of acceptance/agreement, which supports your argument. I do agree with you that this bullshit can only be slung so many times before everyone just tunes it out.
 

Shooter McGavin

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A vaccine for the virus responsible for most "common colds".

It took TDS to cure the common cold.
Most common colds are cause by human rhinoviruses, there's about 100 of them. Coronavirus has about 6 that affect humans including SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2 (COVID 19). Than there are human parainfluenza virus, adenovirus, and respiratory syncytial virus.
 

TheGerman

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Most common colds are cause by human rhinoviruses, there's about 100 of them. Coronavirus has about 6 that affect humans including SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2 (COVID 19). Than there are human parainfluenza virus, adenovirus, and respiratory syncytial virus.
I'm pretty sure you're more likely to die from a car accident, a roving band of badgers or an asteroid falling out of the sky, than from coronavirus if you are under the age of 60.
 

pmclaine

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Most common colds are cause by human rhinoviruses, there's about 100 of them. Coronavirus has about 6 that affect humans including SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2 (COVID 19). Than there are human parainfluenza virus, adenovirus, and respiratory syncytial virus.

Educated as such.

Was in to see the kids pediatrician and when he asked if kids were worried about CV he explained the CV is what causes colds in most people.
 
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Doc68

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thank you for a well thought out, rational, and reasoned explanation That tries to balance a lot of competing values.



for god sake‘s let’s try to solve this problem with Memes and bumper stickers.




it is a well thought out and explained argument, but it is not the reality of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t give 100% immunity to those who receive it. For various reasons it they are not effective in some people, and some people for health reasons cannot receive them. That is why we vaccinate everyone with the idea that if it doesn’t become effective in everyone that those people will be protected by herd immunity. You get people dropping out of vaccinations and you start to lose that heard immunity and you put people at risk.

in this case I don’t know what the answer is. We don’t know how effective the vaccine would be, we have a pretty good idea on how lethal this is, but we really don’t know for sure. We don’t know what the obvious side effects will be vaccine. If you have something like airborne AIDS it gets a little bit clearer on the morality of insisting on universal vaccination. But life for better or worse is never as clear-cut as that.

would I get the vaccine? Probably. I get the flu shot every year.
For the second part of your response, we have a flu vaccination and 60k a year still die from the flu, and most dont even get the flu vaccination. Just goes to show how effective it is. I will not take a vaccination that was just rushed out in record speed.

We also saw why the numbers increased also. False reporting of the disease and sick people being put back in nursing homes. That second reason sounds like murder to me. Along with murder, states made a lot of money from the feds by coding patients to having covid that truly in fact couldn't be proven. Think about that for a minute.

Now you want me to put something in my body that the same government as above says is safe. We have Dr. FALSI that's says simple existing drugs can't be used so we can run trials on a new experimental drug that cost 1000 a dose....I dont see how you can sit there with a straight face......
 

CoryT

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So we agreed the COVID-19 is not the end of the world, and requiring people to submit to a vaccine would be unjust use of force by the state. Fine, agreed.

Still the underlying question is ignored by the 'Fuck your vaccine!' camp.

Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?

The fact is the questions exists, nothing to do with your trust, belief in science, corruption, Big Pharma or any other nonsense being used to dodge the issue makes the question dissappear. They either have a justified power to do so or they don't. Which is it? Before you answer, you might consider the unintended consequences of either selection.

Clearly a yes answer has some issues, in that it depends on reasonable people making reasonable decisions based on facts rather than emotion. Mission creep is a real problem. Pollyanna will be seeking perfect safety from every possible bad outcome. Greed and other personal agendas can thwart proper decision making. This is one reason for a large consensus government rather than a king. Various people like to complain about a 'do nothing Congress' when the system was in fact designed to make it hard to get anything done. That system may be corrupted now, but the question still remains.

I expect to see a lot of people here in the No camp. I'm not sure they have actually thought the matter through though. How does No reconcile with other issues the state must handle? Can you, for instance, store 5000 lbs of black power in your garage? After all, it's your property, you are not hurting anyone. The danger is only potential. Can the state require a permit, a magazine, set limits on the amount or the containers?
 

KYAggie

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Most common colds are cause by human rhinoviruses, there's about 100 of them. Coronavirus has about 6 that affect humans including SARS, MERS and SARS-CoV-2 (COVID 19). Than there are human parainfluenza virus, adenovirus, and respiratory syncytial virus.
Yeah, and covid-19 has at least 14 mutations that we know of and which one or ones will the vaccine be affective for? Not to mention, it’s extremely likely I’ve already had it and beat it with no real symptoms, so if I get an antibody test and it comes back positive, why in the world would I get some vaccine that only covers a few strains. Not to mention they think antibodies could last up to three years, protect against all the mutations, and even after it wears off our bodies will recognize it must faster and fight it better which makes my immune system stronger. Wait, they don’t want our immune systems stronger, they want them weaker so the can make more vaccines and drugs we “need” so they get richer. Also, they get to kill us off faster, from vaccine and drug side affects, and benefit from the increased tax money they get after our 401k’s become inherited 401k’s and the required minimum distributions kick in and then go exponential after about 10 years draining them and creating a big tax bill.

They can stick that vaccine where the sun don’t shine.

I’m sure they will have plenty of takers from the people who believe that who ever is in the Whitehouse is God and actually has control over their lives and can control if they die or not. The billionaires will still get their money that they will not take with them when they die.
 

Jsp556

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So we agreed the COVID-19 is not the end of the world, and requiring people to submit to a vaccine would be unjust use of force by the state. Fine, agreed.

Still the underlying question is ignored by the 'Fuck your vaccine!' camp.

Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?

The fact is the questions exists, nothing to do with your trust, belief in science, corruption, Big Pharma or any other nonsense being used to dodge the issue makes the question dissappear. They either have a justified power to do so or they don't. Which is it? Before you answer, you might consider the unintended consequences of either selection.

Clearly a yes answer has some issues, in that it depends on reasonable people making reasonable decisions based on facts rather than emotion. Mission creep is a real problem. Pollyanna will be seeking perfect safety from every possible bad outcome. Greed and other personal agendas can thwart proper decision making. This is one reason for a large consensus government rather than a king. Various people like to complain about a 'do nothing Congress' when the system was in fact designed to make it hard to get anything done. That system may be corrupted now, but the question still remains.

I expect to see a lot of people here in the No camp. I'm not sure they have actually thought the matter through though. How does No reconcile with other issues the state must handle? Can you, for instance, store 5000 lbs of black power in your garage? After all, it's your property, you are not hurting anyone. The danger is only potential. Can the state require a permit, a magazine, set limits on the amount or the containers?
Apply your logic to your guns or 5k rounds of ammo.
 

Amanda4461

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How about we just send two nuclear -tipped Tomahawks to Wuhan, KungFlu land? Detonate them a few thousand feet AGL, and tell the whole world audience 3 minutes before detonation, that unless China gets its act together, pays several trillion bucks to every infected country, and stops trying to control the world, we will send them our entire inventory of post WWII Nuclear weapons by sea and by air, and let them see if our technology has improved since 1945🤡
 

CoryT

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Guns are inert lumps of metal and 5k rounds of even 50 BMG is not close to 5K lbs of black powder, which is an explosive, not just flammable, and we know that ammo in a fire is a scant hazard at best. Try again.

Frankly I'd be happier standing next to 5k lbs of C4 than BP. You live in a condo, you really OK with that in the storage room of the guy next door? I don't care if he stacks RPG-7's to the ceiling, but if it's stacks of rockets, I'd be a bit concerned. I think the Fire Marshals should be as well.
 

Threadcutter308

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So we agreed the COVID-19 is not the end of the world, and requiring people to submit to a vaccine would be unjust use of force by the state. Fine, agreed.

Still the underlying question is ignored by the 'Fuck your vaccine!' camp.

Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?

The fact is the questions exists, nothing to do with your trust, belief in science, corruption, Big Pharma or any other nonsense being used to dodge the issue makes the question dissappear. They either have a justified power to do so or they don't. Which is it? Before you answer, you might consider the unintended consequences of either selection.

Clearly a yes answer has some issues, in that it depends on reasonable people making reasonable decisions based on facts rather than emotion. Mission creep is a real problem. Pollyanna will be seeking perfect safety from every possible bad outcome. Greed and other personal agendas can thwart proper decision making. This is one reason for a large consensus government rather than a king. Various people like to complain about a 'do nothing Congress' when the system was in fact designed to make it hard to get anything done. That system may be corrupted now, but the question still remains.

I expect to see a lot of people here in the No camp. I'm not sure they have actually thought the matter through though. How does No reconcile with other issues the state must handle? Can you, for instance, store 5000 lbs of black power in your garage? After all, it's your property, you are not hurting anyone. The danger is only potential. Can the state require a permit, a magazine, set limits on the amount or the containers?
OK, I don’t want these “scientists” fucking around with this stuff in the first place. They’ve made a mess of things already and can’t be trusted.

When does my voice get heard and all this “research” gets shut down ?

Yeah, I didn’t think so..... :rolleyes:
 

Rthur

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The gauntlet has been laid down, what are we going to do about it?
I'm not surprised one bit.
We have med professionals on this very site that would be all on board with this shit.
If they think I'll play any more of their silly games, they'd better come prepared.

R
 

Sean the Nailer

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Ya know, after thinking about this further, don't we all have that scar on our arm from the smallpox innoxication or whatever, when we were kids? (did they brand us or something?) I mean seriously, what 'injection' leaves a scar?

Is there a line/path where that was 'optional' or has it always been 'needed/mandatory/required/logical'? And what causes the difference? Who says "Go"?
 

CoryT

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That would be the smallpox vaccine, which along with polio was not optional, and smallpox is basically eradicated and polio nearly so. Seems like a good thing, at least if you know anything about either disease.
 

Phil1010

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considering how little my state has been impacted and being under 40 I have no plans to take a rushed vaccine. If I was older or in a different state I might feel different.
 
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mavrick10_2000

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thank you for a well thought out, rational, and reasoned explanation That tries to balance a lot of competing values.



for god sake‘s let’s try to solve this problem with Memes and bumper stickers.




it is a well thought out and explained argument, but it is not the reality of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t give 100% immunity to those who receive it. For various reasons it they are not effective in some people, and some people for health reasons cannot receive them. That is why we vaccinate everyone with the idea that if it doesn’t become effective in everyone that those people will be protected by herd immunity. You get people dropping out of vaccinations and you start to lose that heard immunity and you put people at risk.

in this case I don’t know what the answer is. We don’t know how effective the vaccine would be, we have a pretty good idea on how lethal this is, but we really don’t know for sure. We don’t know what the obvious side effects will be vaccine. If you have something like airborne AIDS it gets a little bit clearer on the morality of insisting on universal vaccination. But life for better or worse is never as clear-cut as that.

would I get the vaccine? Probably. I get the flu shot every year.

I have one basic disagreement with your post. Herd immunity is not specific to receiving a vaccine - a vaccine is an extra boost to your immune system, it's one supplemental part of herd immunity and can potentially speed up the time to reach herd immunity. Keeping vitamin D levels (a Hormone) within a healthy range is also a documented benefit as it regulates immune system function, vitamin C can aid in this is well - not a cure all.

Plenty of people contracted Covid-19 and survived - they've developed antibodies - this is also a key part of herd immunity, and was for quite some time before vaccines existed. For the record I'm not anti-vaccine, in this go around (COVID-19) I am based upon documented data that is surrounded by corruption, conflict of interest and seriously deviant and evil shit.
 
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mavrick10_2000

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eta - Think about it. What do you think most peoples' initial reaction would be if the MSM all of a sudden announced there was a new 'pandemic'? I honestly think most would say 'what the fuck ever' and resist any kind of shutdown.

Just wait until the next election cycle in 2024 - it follows the pattern of every other major virus announced in the last few decades - unless the corrupt global shit heads are dealt with.
 

Vodoun daVinci

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Isn't there a group of sailors that were isolated and tested positive for covid and then recovered and now have it again? Isn't there some evidence that having the antibodies is not immunity to reacquiring the virus?

Seems I have heard that there is doubt that we can develop immunity thru exposure/recovery but there are so many liars and cheaters trying to spin this for millions that I'm really not interested anymore.



It's all fake news until it's not. My brother works as maintenance supervisor at a local meat processing plant and was absolutely laughing at all this shelter in place bullshit...the plant was designated critical infrastructure and everybody worked until the plant was decimated with sick and dead, my brother tested positive (with symptoms/recovering nicely) but now his wife has it and she's not doing so well.

So..in my world the first fucking liar has not a chance. Who knows?

Again...I have a really smart niece working for on this as a pathologist and infectious disease specialist and she has told me that there is significant doubt that humans can acquire immunity. There is credible doubt that a vaccine will work...we just don't know enough yet to be sure but one thing is certain. Big Pharma and the yer local billionaire Health Care Provider are going to get (are getting rich) filthy fucking rich terrorizing common folks.

What a fucking world we have built, eh?

VooDoo
 
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CoryT

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We have yet to have created any working vaccine for a coronavirus. Not that it's not possible, but it would be the first. There are a number of reports where recovered people have later tested positive, but it does not seem to be a re-infection, and it's unclear if those people are able to transmit it at that point. It is also unclear how long one might remain immune, that's a big unknown. Various other treatments are in the works, but it's a long process. Salk gave his away, so we'll see if altruism still exists.
 

FromMyColdDeadHand

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So again why do we allow the importation of people that subtract from that herd immunity and making that argument is considered a non starter.

Confusing two issues here but when an argument is so strongly stated to be "settled science" only a "denier" could not see it these shades of hypocrisy really confuse me.
you confuse me. What the heck are you talking about? Illegal immigrants? What ‘settled science’? Are you complaining that I don’t use bumper stickers to decide national health policy?

My post addressed risk assessments made by individuals as to whether, or not, to be vaccinated. Efficacy of a vaccine is a different subject, which I didn't address.

Yes, legal precedent does support mandatory vaccinations. However, times have drastically changed the past 30 years. There has been significant push back on mandatory vaccinations for years now and it's still not settled. Now add the total lack of trust in all forms government and the exposure of how deeply corrupt it has become. I believe a federally imposed mandatory vaccination could be the spark that starts multiple fires nationally. I would argue that the aforementioned is the real and current reality we face today.

Lastly, about your point on herd immunity. Good luck selling mandatory vaccinations, to the entire population, based on the principle that "you" must be vaccinated, because mine may not provide me total immunity.
it isn’t a sell, it’s a fact. That‘s how immunizations work. Look at measles and how about 10% rate of non compliance starts to open cracks.

For the second part of your response, we have a flu vaccination and 60k a year still die from the flu, and most dont even get the flu vaccination. Just goes to show how effective it is. I will not take a vaccination that was just rushed out in record speed.

We also saw why the numbers increased also. False reporting of the disease and sick people being put back in nursing homes. That second reason sounds like murder to me. Along with murder, states made a lot of money from the feds by coding patients to having covid that truly in fact couldn't be proven. Think about that for a minute.

Now you want me to put something in my body that the same government as above says is safe. We have Dr. FALSI that's says simple existing drugs can't be used so we can run trials on a new experimental drug that cost 1000 a dose....I dont see how you can sit there with a straight face......
it wasn’t some nefarious plot that the government was paying more for the Covid cases. The hospitals had to shut down all their operations that actually made money in the Fed was just trying to make up for that. Of course anytime you start screwing around with a market-based system you get really goofy results.
The GOP needs to be running ads that Cuomo sending back the Covid patients to nursing homes was the equivalent of sending Jews back to Germany.

OK, I don’t want these “scientists” fucking around with this stuff in the first place. They’ve made a mess of things already and can’t be trusted.

When does my voice get heard and all this “research” gets shut down ?

Yeah, I didn’t think so..... :rolleyes:
do you think that that Will Smith movie with the zombies was a documentary? Omega Man? By all means let’s shut down science sounds like a spectacular idea. Do you think AIDS was a CIA plot?

Well most Jews actually voted for Hitler and obediently got on the train for Auschwitz so I would not expect too much forcing to actually need to happen.
You got a support that was some evidence. While people can make an argument that Hitler was not seen to be as dangerous as he ended up being, it’s really hard to believe that Jews didn’t see that.

I have one basic disagreement with your post. Herd immunity is not specific to receiving a vaccine - a vaccine is an extra boost to your immune system, it's one supplemental part of herd immunity and can potentially speed up the time to reach herd immunity. Keeping vitamin D levels (a Hormone) within a healthy range is also a documented benefit as it regulates immune system function, vitamin C can aid in this is well - not a cure all.

Plenty of people contracted Covid-19 and survived - they've developed antibodies - this is also a key part of herd immunity, and was for quite some time before vaccines existed. For the record I'm not anti-vaccine, in this go around (COVID-19) I am based upon documented data that is surrounded by corruption, conflict of interest and seriously deviant and evil shit.
it’s really hard to get rid of a disease by depending on natural post infection based immunity. You have to have the vaccine to make it to the level of immunity to stop the spread. People move too much, too many people are born, you can’t depend on natural transmission to give you the levels of immunity that you need. Plus immunity from the vaccine skips the chance of dying part of being infected. I don’t know for sure but I doubt any contagious disease has ever been “cured“ through natural herd immunity, without some kind of mutation in the underlying infection that rendered it less potent.

as to the cases of reinfection, with 5000 people, the number of “reinfections“ could be explained by false positives In the initial testing. Even double testing people will allow some false positives through.
 

Dta1

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wonder what the laundry list of side effect will look like
  • Diarrhea.
  • Dizziness.
  • Drowsiness.
  • Fatigue.
  • Heart issues (palpitations, irregular heartbeats)
  • Hives.
  • Nausea and vomiting.
  • Rash.
  • Constipation.
  • Skin rash or dermatitis.
  • Diarrhea.
  • Dizziness.
  • Drowsiness.
  • Dry mouth.
  • Headache.
  • Insomnia.
caners . liver damage heart attacks , stoke and impudence and projectile vomiting , explosive recital discharge . loss of friends , loss of hearing already have that one ,loss of motor function , Alzheimer's , paranoia , schizophrenia and i am sure the list could go on . it would almost be kinder to kill you at that point .
You forgot Covid-19
 

pmclaine

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you confuse me. What the heck are you talking about? Illegal immigrants? What ‘settled science’? Are you complaining that I don’t use bumper stickers to decide national health policy?

Exactly the powers that be will demand the Citizen to do something but the illegal citizen gets a pass - "Where is your humanity?"

Few years ago when Entero virus became a problem - an outbreak that coincided with the previous administration stuffing kids that had "Enteroed" the country illegally into every grade school - started giving kids polio like maladies -that was no problem.

When these issues are brought up its considered "racist". Ellis Island was a good idea for immigrants coming into the country. Preventing illegal entry to circumvent ensuring the public health is hypocrisy - dont hold the Citizen to a higher standard and give non citizens a pass.
 

mavrick10_2000

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Isn't there a group of sailors that were isolated and tested positive for covid and then recovered and now have it again? Isn't there some evidence that having the antibodies is not immunity to reacquiring the virus?

Seems I have heard that there is doubt that we can develop immunity thru exposure/recovery but there are so many liars and cheaters trying to spin this for millions that I'm really not interested anymore.



It's all fake news until it's not. My brother works as maintenance supervisor at a local meat processing plant and was absolutely laughing at all this shelter in place bullshit...the plant was designated critical infrastructure and everybody worked until the plant was decimated with sick and dead, my brother tested positive (with symptoms/recovering nicely) but now his wife has it and she's not doing so well.

So..in my world the first fucking liar has not a chance. Who knows?

Again...I have a really smart niece working for on this as a pathologist and infectious disease specialist and she has told me that there is significant doubt that humans can acquire immunity. There is credible doubt that a vaccine will work...we just don't know enough yet to be sure but one thing is certain. Big Pharma and the yer local billionaire Health Care Provider are going to get (are getting rich) filthy fucking rich terrorizing common folks.

What a fucking world we have built, eh?

VooDoo
Good post. I hope your SIL health improves. Hopefully she's a candidate for HCQ/Zinc + Z-Pak if necessary and her doctors will prescribe a round of it very soon.

The issue with all reports even from the medical community / corporate media/Propagandist/Pravda is conflicting information, and outright bias.

Testing has been suspect from day 1, and the "scientific community" hasn't seemed to practice scientific method in research for quite some time.

I'm confident there are good folks (like your niece ) in the medical field, but that system has been compromised like the rest of our culture - they only "know" what they're allowed, or taught to know, any dissent beyond that is quashed and careers/lives are ruined in the research field based upon political dogma driven by patents/profit, much like in the political arena if you fail to toe the party line.

The next 12-18 months are going to be "interesting". I have a feeling the curtain is going to be pulled back on big pharma and all who are associated with it globally. Some information is trickling out now.

I hope the information doesn't turn out to be bad enough to have made Himmler or Goebbels proud.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

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as to the cases of reinfection, with 5000 people, the number of “reinfections“ could be explained by false positives In the initial testing. Even double testing people will allow some false positives through.
Nope. No way. Can't happen.
Phlegmagnathon has already debunked any theory of the remote possiblity of false positives. You can say false negatives all day but there's no such thing as a false positive.
 

powdahound76

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Educated as such.

Was in to see the kids pediatrician and when he asked if kids were worried about CV he explained the CV is what causes colds in most people.

And this proves that 4 yrs of pre-med, 4 yrs of med school, and 3 yrs of residency does not automatically make one smart.

Or 5 years of surgical residency......

While this virus is real, has probably killed more folks in 2 months than a bad flu season, and is still very much an unknown, the complete freakout/shutdown combined with diametrically opposed messaging, in the same sentence at times, is something else.

I say probably because we have inflated numbers from many places. I despise his politics, but applaud Gov. Jared Polis of CO for fighting to have our numbers accurately reported and not inflated.

I fill out a lot of death paperwork, send it to funeral homes, county coroners, etc.
I also work the the docs who were signing it at my facility during our COVID spike and while they dont have their head on right like most of of here, they do want actual real numbers and science.
But none of them have political aspirations or will benefit financially in a large way from The Gates Vaccine.....

Good luck on forcing a vaccine.

Buy more Ammo!
 

MTN

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Trump Admin is stating they will not force a vaccine.
Let us see where the Corp employers go with this. I know some are already asking employees if they will test before coming into the office.
 

mavrick10_2000

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Let us see where the Corp employers go with this. I know some are already asking employees if they will test before coming into the office.
We'll have to see what happens.

I've been working from home for 8 weeks, I'm in the first rotation group going back to the office the week of June 1st and more than ready to get back.

Daily temp screenings as enter the office is the norm and 100.4 is the threshold for being sent home. I'm fine with that from a safety perspective, the "protective face coverings"/masks if you leave your desk/office irks me a bit, as does the "6ft social distancing" rule. Touching N95 masks frequently kind of defeats the purpose, same as touching your face - don't even get me started on homemade crap and surgical masks. 3 mins tops and the moisture is breeding bacteria right over your nose and mouth and inches from your eyes - great plan.

"social distancing" 6ft isn't enough with airborne particulates, particularly if the life span of the virus is more than a fraction of a second let alone the reported 3-ish hours in an office environment.

Top that off with the fact I've grown my full beard back-my N95 ain't gonna seal shit and I'm not shaving. I'm half tempted to start dipping again and spit in my trashcan at my desk - cause I sorta feel like being a dick.
 
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pmclaine

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We'll have to see what happens.

I've been working from home for 8 weeks, I'm in the first rotation group going back to the office the week of June 1st and more than ready to get back.

Daily temp screenings as enter the office is the norm and 100.4 is the threshold for being sent home. I'm fine with that from a safety perspective, the "protective face coverings"/masks if you leave your desk/office irks me a bit, as does the "6ft social distancing" rule. Touching N95 masks frequently kind of defeats the purpose, same as touching your face - don't even get me started on homemade crap and surgical masks. 3 mins tops and the moisture is breeding bacteria right over your nose and mouth and inches from your eyes - great plan.

"social distancing" 6ft isn't enough with airborne particulates, particularly if the life span of the virus is more than a fraction of a second let alone the reported 3-ish hours in an office environment.

Top that off with the fact I've grown my full beard back-my N95 ain't gonna seal shit and I'm not shaving. I'm half tempted to start dipping again and spit in my trashcan at my desk - cause I sorta feel like being a dick.
Spit right through your mask so it looks like shit.

1/2 hour of that they will probably give you a pass on wearing one.
 

wade2big

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And this proves that 4 yrs of pre-med, 4 yrs of med school, and 3 yrs of residency does not automatically make one smart.

Or 5 years of surgical residency......

While this virus is real, has probably killed more folks in 2 months than a bad flu season, and is still very much an unknown, the complete freakout/shutdown combined with diametrically opposed messaging, in the same sentence at times, is something else.

I say probably because we have inflated numbers from many places. I despise his politics, but applaud Gov. Jared Polis of CO for fighting to have our numbers accurately reported and not inflated.

I fill out a lot of death paperwork, send it to funeral homes, county coroners, etc.
I also work the the docs who were signing it at my facility during our COVID spike and while they dont have their head on right like most of of here, they do want actual real numbers and science.
But none of them have political aspirations or will benefit financially in a large way from The Gates Vaccine.....

Good luck on forcing a vaccine.

Buy more Ammo!
Governor Polis got caught. That’s what happened. Most of Colorado’s deaths have been in nursing homes due to either your governor’s incompetence or his malice. He chose to lock down your state and patrol wilderness areas with drones instead of helping nursing homes protect the only people who die from this thing in any real numbers. He chose to victimize the public instead of protecting the vulnerable. He gave nursing homes until May 1st to turn in their plan to isolate the sick within their walls. That’s two months too late almost like it was on purpose.
 

Shooter McGavin

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Take the human emotion out of the picture and humans have been dealing with viruses since the beginning. The human body has even change its DNA over time to included virus DNA. It's hypothesized that this was to help the body fight off viruses better. However, some virus material in our DNA are suspected in causing cancer and allowing other viruses to infected us easier.

The point is the virus and humans have coexisted since the beginning and they make humans stronger. However, they don't make all humanity stronger. They do kill off the weak and this is were we have a problem today. Our society as a whole has become weaker. Look at 1968 pandemic, there was no cure and the planet lost 1 million people. An estimated 100,000 just in the US. Why did they citizens of this country not even consider sheltering in place and still went to work. These people have dealt with death before in some form. From being in WWII or the Korean War; or having a relative killed in those wars. Vietnam was going on, so people were dealing with more death with that. Also, other important news was happening such as Human Rights marches and people were being killed there too.

Today we have news that exaggerates everything to get more viewers, so they can make more money. They don't actually care about facts and care more about using emotions of their audience to get everyone spun up. So, if we just look at the fact that humans will survive this and continue on, there should be no problem. However, we won't as people are scared to death that thus virus may kill them.
 

mavrick10_2000

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In this, you are flat out wrong. Sorry. Vaccine arguments aside. You can argue the response, you can argue the spread, etc. But I have seen and dealt with it personally - you are wrong, sir.
I would be interested in non-HIPAA data on your experience as well.

I would agree it's not 'exactly' the same as the flu.

From my wife's data there is particular damage and scarring in the lungs if it's allowed to progress - to what point I can't quote. That is not a normal expectation with our annual flu variants. However, most folks exhibiting this have some co-morbidity (other health issue) that appears to be a significant contributing factor to doing poorly, or dying as a result.

The issue with even local news reports is lack of details surrounding each death or group of them. No specific age group, or rare mentions of other health issues. For example, there have been some COVID-19 deaths in my state in the 40-50's age range, but no context as to any co-morbidity, or the jacked up methods for reporting a true COVID death vs. a clear other cause.

Reward reporting of a death as COVID-19 with cash and you'll get what you pay for - over inflated numbers and a false picture in relation to the actual size and scope of the problem.

NOTE: To be transparent my wife's data is from friends/colleagues in the infections disease practice for the patients she has responsibility for.
 
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powdahound76

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@wade2big

You may be right about Polis.
Or you are wrong and have a jaded point of view and hate anyone who is a D and makes a mistake.
Easy that Polis could have screwed up. I cant stand him and actively worked against his campaign. Issue is the CO republican party cant field a decent candidate who will stand and fight.

I work a lot, more now, plus full time at single parenting (mom is like tits on a boar) so my time to keep up on all the crap is minimal.

The fact that care facilities need a deadline And govt mandate on keeping their residents and staff safe is simply amazing. I do this medical stuff day in and day for the last couple decades.
But a lot if NH are shitholes with useless staff.

One of my best friends is a medical director of such a place. He has had a plan in place since 1 March.
Zero resident or staff infections.
Hmmm.
 

wade2big

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@wade2big

You may be right about Polis.
Or you are wrong and have a jaded point of view and hate anyone who is a D and makes a mistake.
Easy that Polis could have screwed up. I cant stand him and actively worked against his campaign. Issue is the CO republican party cant field a decent candidate who will stand and fight.

I work a lot, more now, plus full time at single parenting (mom is like tits on a boar) so my time to keep up on all the crap is minimal.

The fact that care facilities need a deadline And govt mandate on keeping their residents and staff safe is simply amazing. I do this medical stuff day in and day for the last couple decades.
But a lot if NH are shitholes with useless staff.

One of my best friends is a medical director of such a place. He has had a plan in place since 1 March.
Zero resident or staff infections.
Hmmm.
I hate anyone that’s D as I’m fully aware of their agenda. A D will always fall in-line. They want to destroy the nation and do just enough normal stuff to not be classified as terrorists. There is no good in that party today. I have a similar disdain for lifelong Republican politicians as well. What I said about Polis is what I see regardless of party lines except that I do feel like the communists are intentionally hurting people to “win”.
 

mavrick10_2000

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OK, I don’t want these “scientists” fucking around with this stuff in the first place. They’ve made a mess of things already and can’t be trusted.

When does my voice get heard and all this “research” gets shut down ?

Yeah, I didn’t think so..... :rolleyes:
Do you mean like when Ebola couldn't effect humans until it was brought into a lab at Ft. Dietrich and taught how to and apparently go out into the wild somehow?

Sounds familiar to something else, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think we can all rest easy knowing the CDC and/or WHO had nothing to do with it. /sarc
 
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supercorndogs

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I hate anyone that’s D as I’m fully aware of their agenda. A D will always fall in-line. They want to destroy the nation and do just enough normal stuff to not be classified as terrorists. There is no good in that party today. I have a similar disdain for lifelong Republican politicians as well. What I said about Polis is what I see regardless of party lines except that I do feel like the communists are intentionally hurting people to “win”.
Which is fine, until we start assuming things are correct only because it is the opposite of what D man said.
 
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wade2big

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Which is fine, until we start assuming things are correct only because it is the opposite of what D man said.
I get your concept, but in reality the party and its supporters are evil. I am not saying a Democrat could never be correct. 2 plus 2 equals four regardless of who does the math. They are never right on real issues. Every single thing they do is to seize power and control. Ultimately resulting in death of the innocent. Life is a game to them. They don’t respect themselves so they could never respect others. If a Communist is for it, I am against it even if I knew nothing of the matter. Now I am not nieve to think any politician has my interest at heart regardless of stated party affiliation. We need free thinkers.