Alan Dershowitz claims you must take vaccination.

Threadcutter308

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Which is fine, until we start assuming things are correct only because it is the opposite of what D man said.
Generally, there appears to be more than ample evidence on just about any subject to draw correct conclusions without having to take the opposite position from D’s by default. Some would recognize it as logic.
 
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CoryT

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You realize that this is not Dershowitz's opinion, but settled law at the SC level, right? Trump could say exactly the same thing and it would be correct. In fact, all the administration has said is that they would not make it mandatory, not that they could not.

And still, no one answers the questions, much less defends their position with facts and logic. This is like trying to explain the shape of the Earth to flat earth proponents. Facts and logic are met with denial, deflection, insults and rage.

And for the record, the Earth is an oblate spheriod.
 

powdahound76

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@Threadcutter308 - yes. You are correct.

AND there is a lot of that going on in the world, where it must be the opposite of what someone said.
Both leftist nutjobs (redundant on purpose, one word doesnt cover it enough) and hardcore patriotic conservatives.

Plenty of thinking and good discussion. And lots of non-thinking and just arguing.
Reminds me of my ex-wife.
 
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supercorndogs

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Generally, there appears to be more than ample evidence on just about any subject to draw correct conclusions without having to take the opposite position from D’s By default. Some would recognize it as logic.
Sometimes there is, but that doesn't change anything about the statement made. Sometimes, this "ample evidence" is a bunch of guessing, and what people claim to be logic is actually confirmation bias. We see it all the time with Orange man bad, D man bad, R man bad, people of the world. People get all huffed up and go after anything said by whomever they decide is the opposition.

I talked to my buddy down in TX last week, he and his wife got sick after visiting his parents in Garden City ,KS{there has been a significant outbreak at the meat packing plant there}. His wife tested positive, I haven't talked to him again, he was waiting for a negative test before he could go back to work. He said they were sick for about a week and were both 90%, as of last Wednesday, his wife just got tested because she was scared. He said his parents were sick for 1 day. Literally woke up sick, went to bed that night and woke up feeling better. Could be false positive could be more evidence this virus is not the big bad wolf. I just texted him to see how things are going.

All of the cases in out county are hospital workers who were infected by a traveling nurse. I know one of the guys that just tested positive. I would text him but I have a feeling everyone is playing million questions, he can't answer, with him right now.
 

Threadcutter308

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You realize that this is not Dershowitz's opinion, but settled law at the SC level, right? Trump could say exactly the same thing and it would be correct. In fact, all the administration has said is that they would not make it mandatory, not that they could not.

And still, no one answers the questions, much less defends their position with facts and logic. This is like trying to explain the shape of the Earth to flat earth proponents. Facts and logic are met with denial, deflection, insults and rage.

And for the record, the Earth is an oblate spheriod.
Actually, I see that I did not respond to your underlying point. Yes, it appears that he is factually correct and that you are correct about it.

Having said that, he can still go fuck himself. He's grandstanding and propagandizing, all for the sake of promoting the agenda that he has bought into and to get a little recognition. You might want to look into his history as it pertains to "ethical" behavior a bit though.

I really don't have the bandwidth to go very far down this rabbit hole, but let me ask you a hypothetical question; If the good people in the house/senate and the president passed a law that commanded everyone to go out and kill as many people of a specific race as possible, would you comply ? I sure the hell wouldn't.
As far as me being an "Anti-Vaxxer", nothing could be further from the truth. However, recent events have caused me to lose a great deal of faith in the scientific and medical communities, such that I am now very hesitant to take any vaccine. It has become far, far too politicized and follows a very well defined, underlying agenda. It is an agenda that I vehemently disagree with. As far as where I get my information to base my opinions on, it sure the hell isn't CNN/MSM. Is the information that I get/pay attention to "bad" or inaccurate ? Sure, it's possible. The one thing that I am certain of though, is that in spite of the possibility, it's one hell of a lot more accurate information than what the MSM has to offer.
 
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Threadcutter308

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There are presently laws on the books that many people in this country disagree with, take abortion for example. Additionally, there are laws that come very close to exceeding (or already exceed) what is allowed by the Constitution, Second Amendment infringements being a prime example. I would think that would be obvious to you, based upon your signature.

My point is that we are not only rapidly approaching, but have already arrived at a point where either existing laws, or new laws do not actually benefit or represent a significant segment of society. In fact, they infringe on a large portion of the population's Constitutionally guaranteed rights, but those that pass them keep right on doing it. And, there appears to be little recourse. Which, calls Justice, Equality and the value of the Constitution/BOR's into question. I believe that the percentage of people who rightfully believe/know their rights are being infringed upon continues to grow. And, that infringement itself continues to grow.

I'm not really sure what your point in all of this is. It appears you enjoy fulfilling the "contrarian" role, along with a splash of superiority. But, that is your right, just like every other person that has, or will post here.

Boiling it all down, I have lost a huge amount of faith in the government, the media and now the medical/scientific community. Just because there is a "law" that demands that I get this week's flavor of "immunization", doesn't mean that I will comply. You appear to be championing compliance with all laws, no matter how draconian or unjust. Just because the law exists and that you can successfully prove that it does, does not make that law just and equitable to all of those that it affects. That was my point in my previous post.
 
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Son of Dorn

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No. Not really. Some people never learn.
This is true. But as explanation, I was thinking more along the lines of the Jewish and part-Jewish families who had themselves declared Aryan, some by decree of Hitler himself, and had members who served in the SS.
 

wade2big

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Clearly a law as you suggest would be illegitimate on it's face, that's not even close to the same thing.
Holy crap. You are a range master at Gunsite. I will make sure myself or anyone I know doesn’t give money to that place. I wouldn’t want them to be taught by a government sympathizer.
 

CoryT

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How did I even suggest you comply with all laws, no matter what? I asked a number of questions, all of which have been basically ignored, which seek to outline the limits of government in such cases. Someone quote back something where anyone with the reading comprehension of a 5 year old could say that I even implied you must comply with any law, every time, in every case?

I clearly stated that making this vaccine, for this virus, a mandatory thing is not warranted. The Feds have also clearly, at least to some of us, exceeded their authority in more that an few areas. Currently, the solution to that still lies in the ballot box. Since none of you blowhards has started the revolution yet, voting will have to do.
 

Tims

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Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?
In the interest of public safety there is no point where the state I live in should have the authority to force me to get a c19 vaccine. The state i live in people shit on the sidewalks. The state passes out needles to drug users. The state I live in actually put c19 patients in assisted living facilities with disastrous results.
The state I live in lets violent criminals out of prison early but puts citizens in jail just because they want to go back to work. " In the interest of public safety " are you serious?

I expect to see a lot of people here in the No camp. I'm not sure they have actually thought the matter through though. How does No reconcile with other issues the state must handle? Can you, for instance, store 5000 lbs of black power in your garage? After all, it's your property, you are not hurting anyone. The danger is only potential. Can the state require a permit, a magazine, set limits on the amount or the containers?
I have thought the matter through. Perhaps you mist my earlier post so I will make it simple for you. Go get your c19 vaccine . You are now SAFE from me and the others who won't get one. Problem solved.

To use your analogy of storing 5000 pounds of black powder at your neighbors house. My neighbor has " THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS" . If he chooses black powder firearms for self defense so be it. Read the Second Amendment to the Constitution if you don't have a copy PM me your address I will send you one. On a side note, if my neighbor is that prepared for the coming boogaloo it would be awesome. He thinks like me.

Lets remember a key element in the founding of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The freedom you have here is based on individual rights, not the rights of the collective.

Unfortunately , you have been indoctrinated into thinking like a commie and don't even know it.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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This action (vaccination forcing) will demand,... for export only,... to be brought home,... in spades.
This is no different than stealing your money via taxes to house an feed those who in the natural world mother nature would cull, quickly,... A fake problem for more enslavement,... I would suggest you bring you lunch, for a few days,... plus plenty of toe tags and body bags.
 

Longshot231

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What if 1% of those getting the treatment die outright, but the treatment prevents a highly transmissible disease that is 90% fatal? What if its something like polio?
The population of the United States is 328,200,000. So if only 1% of the population dies as a result of the vaccine that would be ‭3,282,000‬ people that we would have to bury.

According to the CDC there were 2,813,503 deaths in the US in 2017. If the vaccine killed people at a 1% rate, more people would die as a result of the cure than do already from other causes.

Let's say that vaccine only had a rate of killing .001% per year. Yes that 1/1000 of a percent. So only 3,282 people could die as a result of the vaccine. If that were to happen, the leftists would blame the Republicans and Trump then say that the vaccine is racist.

Would anyone here want to put themselves or their kids at risk if they had a .001% chance of dying or being crippled?

A friend of mine passed away at the age of 54. He was only three feet tall and had been in a wheel chair since the age of six. He was born normal but some shot he had to take as a child messed him up for the rest of his life.

I remember too many cases in the military when folks suffered from the side effects of the vaccine. I was lucky that it only made me sick for a week or two. Others that I know suffer from a lifetime of occasional seizures and a "thank you for your service" BS.
 

CoryT

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So it would be better then to have 40 to 60 percent of the population get a disease that's 90% fatal? Check my math, but 90% of 40% is more than 1% of 100%. Like about 40 times more. I think that might be a worse outcome.

If you are worried about a .001% chance of dying, I guess you never get in a car or plane? You have about a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash. The utility of a car makes it worth the risk.

Can a medical treatment result in a bad outcome? Certainly, but one tries to balance that against the outcome of not having the treatment at all. When it affects only you, and no one else, you have a choice to make. When it affects EVERYONE else, WE have a choice to make. It's no different than a battle plan in wartime.

Obviously, COVID-19 is not even close to the threshold to make a vaccine mandatory, even if you could somehow prove it was 100% safe and effective, which is impossible. The principal however, still holds. Childhood vaccinations are mandatory (with few exceptions) for a reason, and the good far outweighs the harm. Small consolation if your child suffers of course, but if you went back in time and offered a polio vaccination to people in the 1920's or 30's you'd have them standing in line pretty quick. Jonas Salk was hailed as a hero. They paralyzed over 200 kids and killed 10 with a defective vaccine, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting polio?

If the population were sufficiently educated, you would never need to create a mandatory vaccine law, people would line up in numbers great enough all on their own. Some would opt out, but you'd have enough to matter, and that's all that really counts.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

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1 in a 100? Damn I should buy lottery tickets.
So it would be better then to have 40 to 60 percent of the population get a disease that's 90% fatal? Check my math, but 90% of 40% is more than 1% of 100%. Like about 40 times more. I think that might be a worse outcome.

If you are worried about a .001% chance of dying, I guess you never get in a car or plane? You have about a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash. The utility of a car makes it worth the risk.

Can a medical treatment result in a bad outcome? Certainly, but one tries to balance that against the outcome of not having the treatment at all. When it affects only you, and no one else, you have a choice to make. When it affects EVERYONE else, WE have a choice to make. It's no different than a battle plan in wartime.

Obviously, COVID-19 is not even close to the threshold to make a vaccine mandatory, even if you could somehow prove it was 100% safe and effective, which is impossible. The principal however, still holds. Childhood vaccinations are mandatory (with few exceptions) for a reason, and the good far outweighs the harm. Small consolation if your child suffers of course, but if you went back in time and offered a polio vaccination to people in the 1920's or 30's you'd have them standing in line pretty quick. Jonas Salk was hailed as a hero. They paralyzed over 200 kids and killed 10 with a defective vaccine, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting polio?

If the population were sufficiently educated, you would never need to create a mandatory vaccine law, people would line up in numbers great enough all on their own. Some would opt out, but you'd have enough to matter, and that's all that really counts.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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Those that are hawking this seem to be lacking the ability to think things thru. If you think it's just a vaccine for a fake public health issue you don't have a clue as to the real end game. I'd suggest you get out more an see what they really plan on injecting,... "WITH" the "VACCINE" The amount of stupid, an wanted/liking knee living here, grows everyday.
 

Charger442

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So it would be better then to have 40 to 60 percent of the population get a disease that's 90% fatal? Check my math, but 90% of 40% is more than 1% of 100%. Like about 40 times more. I think that might be a worse outcome.

If you are worried about a .001% chance of dying, I guess you never get in a car or plane? You have about a 1 in 100 chance of dying in a car crash. The utility of a car makes it worth the risk.

Can a medical treatment result in a bad outcome? Certainly, but one tries to balance that against the outcome of not having the treatment at all. When it affects only you, and no one else, you have a choice to make. When it affects EVERYONE else, WE have a choice to make. It's no different than a battle plan in wartime.

Obviously, COVID-19 is not even close to the threshold to make a vaccine mandatory, even if you could somehow prove it was 100% safe and effective, which is impossible. The principal however, still holds. Childhood vaccinations are mandatory (with few exceptions) for a reason, and the good far outweighs the harm. Small consolation if your child suffers of course, but if you went back in time and offered a polio vaccination to people in the 1920's or 30's you'd have them standing in line pretty quick. Jonas Salk was hailed as a hero. They paralyzed over 200 kids and killed 10 with a defective vaccine, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting polio?

If the population were sufficiently educated, you would never need to create a mandatory vaccine law, people would line up in numbers great enough all on their own. Some would opt out, but you'd have enough to matter, and that's all that really counts.
I want to be clear that I understand you correctly: are you saying COVID19 is 90% fatal?
 

pmclaine

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I want to be clear that I understand you correctly: are you saying COVID19 is 90% fatal?

If you are living in a nursing home that has been sent Covid + people, you are 88, morbidly obese, Type 2, smoked your entire life and lick door knobs.......
 

CoryT

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I want to be clear that I understand you correctly: are you saying COVID19 is 90% fatal?
NO, what ever gave you that idea? It's not even 1%, probably more like .7, maybe less. This has nothing to do with this particular virus, I'm speaking to the general principal. It's a hypothetical question is all. I've stated multiple time that COVID-19 does not warrant such an approach, even you think it's real and every bit as bad as the MSM says.

The point is rights are not absolute. The guy who thinks his next door neighbor gets to put 5000 lbs of black powder in open 50cal drums in the garage of his condo because he has a right to bear arms is simply wrong. He's welcome to buy it, can't say he's not. The state CAN however, require he store it in a safe and approved manner/location. That's not an infringement. What they CAN'T do is tell you you can only have 1 ounce, or you need a 1 Million dollar permit.

Freedom of religion does not mean you get to conduct human sacrifice to the feathered serpent god. Freedom of speech does not mean you can publish kiddie porn. The right to life does not mean the state can't execute you as punishment for various crimes. The right to bear arms does not cover you making a stockpile of VX in your bathtub.

If the electorate can't be bothered to choose representation that understands, but just promises free shit, well,you get the government you deserve. At one time you needed to be a free landowner in order to vote. Now illegal immigrants vote. When people are outraged that someone else might be worth a trillion dollars rather than aspiring to equal such success the road is downhill.
 

CoryT

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1 in a 100? Damn I should buy lottery tickets.
Look it up. Over your lifetime, it's in that area or worse. In any given year it's between 1 in 4K and 1 in 8K. People are really bad at odds and probability, public education and teaching to a minimum standard. Hell, unintentional poisoning is about 1 in 90. People worry about their kid being killed in a school shooting when it's far more likely for a child to be killed by their parents, or on their bicycle on the way to school..
 

Tims

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Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?
bviously, COVID-19 is not even close to the threshold to make a vaccine mandatory, even if you could somehow prove it was 100% safe and effective, which is impossible.
Im glad you see things my way. There is absolutely no point at which " the state has a compelling interest in public safety " to force me to get a c19 vaccine or any other vaccine for that matter. However, at what point would you say I should be forced to get one? How should the Government force it on me? Swat team? Break down my front door at 4 am? Jail time? If I still refuse then what? Don't forget now you already got your c19 vaccine you are safe from me.


The point is rights are not absolute. The guy who thinks his next door neighbor gets to put 5000 lbs of black powder in open 50cal drums in the garage of his condo because he has a right to bear arms is simply wrong. He's welcome to buy it, can't say he's not. The state CAN however, require he store it in a safe and approved manner/location. That's not an infringement. What they CAN'T do is tell you you can only have 1 ounce, or you need a 1 Million dollar permit.

YOU are the one who asked the question "can someone store 5000 pounds of black powder in your garage". I was using YOUR analogy. I offered to send you a copy of the Constitution. Black powder firearms and the powder to use them is a Constitutional right. If YOU believe that the Government has the authority to place regulations on your Constitunal Right to keep and bear arms then its not a Right . YOU are asking for permission. Get it?
 

armorpl8chikn

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wonder what the laundry list of side effect will look like
  • Diarrhea.
  • Dizziness.
  • Drowsiness.
  • Fatigue.
  • Heart issues (palpitations, irregular heartbeats)
  • Hives.
  • Nausea and vomiting.
  • Rash.
  • Constipation.
  • Skin rash or dermatitis.
  • Diarrhea.
  • Dizziness.
  • Drowsiness.
  • Dry mouth.
  • Headache.
  • Insomnia.
caners . liver damage heart attacks , stoke and impudence and projectile vomiting , explosive recital discharge . loss of friends , loss of hearing already have that one ,loss of motor function , Alzheimer's , paranoia , schizophrenia and i am sure the list could go on . it would almost be kinder to kill you at that point .
Anal itching. You left out anal itching.
 
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armorpl8chikn

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but if you went back in time and offered a polio vaccination to people in the 1920's or 30's you'd have them standing in line pretty quick. Jonas Salk was hailed as a hero. They paralyzed over 200 kids and killed 10 with a defective vaccine, but when's the last time you heard of someone getting polio?
If you went back in time and gave them all access to clean water, and stopped dumping shit in the river, you would have eradicated polio without a vaccine.

Wait till the infrastructure fails. You WILL see all our old pathogenic friends again.

No vaccine alone ever eradicated a disease.
 

DarnYankeeUSMC

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Your numbers are skewed.
Maybe you can show the mathematics here.

You sound like one of those Lifelock commercials. "Three people every second have their identity stolen" figure out the mathematics on that.

For the record. I will tell people how lucky they are to know me. They are very unlikely to die in a car accident. Except that now the odds may cause a rash of people that I know to die in car accidents. Just to keep the statistics in line.
Look it up. Over your lifetime, it's in that area or worse. In any given year it's between 1 in 4K and 1 in 8K. People are really bad at odds and probability, public education and teaching to a minimum standard. Hell, unintentional poisoning is about 1 in 90. People worry about their kid being killed in a school shooting when it's far more likely for a child to be killed by their parents, or on their bicycle on the way to school..
 

Romeo458

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I will absolutely not take someone against their will to be vaccinated nor will I be vaccinated against mine. The state does not have that power over an individual.
 

Romeo458

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Anyone attending a school will be forced to get the vaccine. You'll need your shot records to attend. Anyone joining or in the Military when a vaccine is approved will be getting it. Depending on where you work you will be getting it. So it looks like a lot of people will be getting it. Of course if you're retired you have a choice in the matter, but you're in the high risk category. Me personally if I don't have to get it for work I probably wont get it. I wait to see how well it works first, then think about getting it.
Especially if you are in or going into EMS. Our hospital allows us to wave the flu shot if we sign a declaration form but I was not allowed to do any of my clinical time if I did not get the flu shot. I can see this being forced upon me if I want to do clinical's as a paramedic, that will be fun.
 

CoryT

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YOU are the one who asked the question "can someone store 5000 pounds of black powder in your garage". I was using YOUR analogy. I offered to send you a copy of the Constitution. Black powder firearms and the powder to use them is a Constitutional right. If YOU believe that the Government has the authority to place regulations on your Constitunal Right to keep and bear arms then its not a Right . YOU are asking for permission. Get it?
So I DO get to conduct human sacrifice to Quetzalcotal? Scalia's opinion in Heller is wrong? I can make as much VX as I like? Jeff Bezos can afford his very own fast breeder reactor, does he get to keep nukes at home, just for emergencies? Feel free to print libel on anyone you want? After all, freedom of speech don't you know.
 

MTN

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So I DO get to conduct human sacrifice to Quetzalcotal? Scalia's opinion in Heller is wrong? I can make as much VX as I like? Jeff Bezos can afford his very own fast breeder reactor, does he get to keep nukes at home, just for emergencies? Feel free to print libel on anyone you want? After all, freedom of speech don't you know.

Forcing medical procedures is one of several lines in the sand for some. You won’t change those minds, but you can go find a safe space to cower in.
 

CoryT

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Your numbers are skewed.
Maybe you can show the mathematics here.

You sound like one of those Lifelock commercials. "Three people every second have their identity stolen" figure out the mathematics on that.

For the record. I will tell people how lucky they are to know me. They are very unlikely to die in a car accident. Except that now the odds may cause a rash of people that I know to die in car accidents. Just to keep the statistics in line.
Officially for 2018 your lifetime odds of death in an automobile accident are 1 in 106. Opioid overdose is 1 in 98 and suicide is 1 in 86.
Current avg life expectancy for a person born in the US in 2018 is 78.7 years. At approx. 40K deaths per year, you are between 1 in 6700 and 1 in 9600 in any given year.

Insurance companies do this all the time. How to you think they calculate rates? The numbers are out there for anyone to see, try searching for 'odds of death'.
 

Tims

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So I DO get to conduct human sacrifice to Quetzalcotal? Scalia's opinion in Heller is wrong? I can make as much VX as I like? Jeff Bezos can afford his very own fast breeder reactor, does he get to keep nukes at home, just for emergencies? Feel free to print libel on anyone you want? After all, freedom of speech don't you know.

In this thread you said you left CA because you need a permit to buy standard capacity magazines. See my point? When you need permission form the government to to buy magazines you no longer have RIGHTS. You are asking for permission . It was you who brought up black powder and felt you need a permit( government permission) to store black powder at your house. So how much black powder should you be able to have at your house with out a Government permit?

Also, in regard to my last post. If I refuse to get the c19 vaccine, how should the Government, "in the interest of public safety" force me to get one? Swat team ? Jail time? Kick down my front door at 4 am?
 

CoryT

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I'm not a fire safety expert, the current Federal limit is 50lbs, in excess of that you'd need a permit and meet storage requirements. Smokeless powder is more or less unrestricted, excepting DOT regulations for transport. That hardly seems unreasonable. Fixed ammunition is also unrestricted. Black powder is a low explosive, smokeless is a propellant. Storing large quantities of explosives in a residence seems unwise.

Clearly a restriction on magazines is outside the power of government to regulate. It's a sheet metal box, so what? Storage of explosive materials is another matter. Pretty reasonable to have the state regulate nerve gas, don't you agree?

Again, COVID-19 is not a vaccine that should be mandated. In the case of something that's 90% fatal and 10% asymptomatic carriers that infect everyone they touch, I doubt we'd need to use much force.
 

Aries256

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35
My response to this dipshit is “wanna bet fucker?”
 

armorpl8chikn

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Opioid overdose is 1 in 98
And you actually believe that statistic?
1 in 98 among users? If you never use opiates the statistic doesn't apply to you at all.
If I've already had Covid, no Covid statistic applies.

Public safety huh?
5000lbs of BP.
Bezos keeps plutonium in his chest of drawers.
Billy Bob the millionaire hillbilly has an M1 Abrams.
Cory has a 40 round magazine.

I'm thinking you would like there to be some middle ground, you know...common sense.

Now you are in here accusing people who like dangerous liberty, of being anarchists. One thing is sure. There's a bunch of men who formed this Republic that you wouldn't have liked.

You sure do build lovely straw men though. They must grow a lot of wheat where you are from.
 

CoryT

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And you actually believe that statistic?
1 in 98 among users? If you never use opiates the statistic doesn't apply to you at all.
If I've already had Covid, no Covid statistic applies.

Public safety huh?
5000lbs of BP.
Bezos keeps plutonium in his chest of drawers.
Billy Bob the millionaire hillbilly has an M1 Abrams.
Cory has a 40 round magazine.

I'm thinking you would like there to be some middle ground, you know...common sense.

Now you are in here accusing people who like dangerous liberty, of being anarchists. One thing is sure. There's a bunch of men who formed this Republic that you wouldn't have liked.

You sure do build lovely straw men though. They must grow a lot of wheat where you are from.
Math is math, that's the death rate. Obviously if you never take an opioid you won't be one od the dead, just as if you never get in a motor vehicle you won't die in a crash.

Yes, there is some middle ground. Let's refer to the document the men who formed the Republic signed, specifically Section 8, Article 1

Section 8
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

If you don't think prohibiting unrestricted ownership of nerve agent is providing for the general welfare of the United States, what exactly does that clause cover?
 

W54/XM-388

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Section 8
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

If you don't think prohibiting unrestricted ownership of nerve agent is providing for the general welfare of the United States, what exactly does that clause cover?
You miss the importance of the commas in the sentence.
Pretty much the same way lots of folks conveniently miss the comma in the second amendment.

If you read it correctly it is saying the congress has the power to raise taxes for the purposes of "pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States".

There is nothing about them using taxes to destroy rights much like the government has done ever since the evil folks figured out they could do it a hundred years ago.

Taxes were to be collected for the purposes only of "pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

The whole using taxes as a way to ban and restrict everything and destroy rights is the exact opposite of what was clearly written and is much like exactly what the revolutionary war was fought over.

Also your constant yakking on about fringe fantasy scenarios and hypothetical disease statistics that have no basis in reality in recorded human history really gets tiring. It's about the same as every democrat ever screaming, you are just like Hitler anytime they don't agree with something.

Oh and fission has been done to death, nobody really cares about it as much any more if you have billions and a vision, it's all in fusion stuff now and how to get everything done without any of that pesky fissile material. Lots of people are funding that research all over the world, from groups of the wealthy to groups of governments, because it's a bit too expensive to do on your own. (I mean you can build a fusion reactor in your garage, but it will just be a toy that uses more energy than it produces so it's pointless).
 

armorpl8chikn

General Pain in the Ass
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Aug 17, 2010
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Math is math, that's the death rate. Obviously if you never take an opioid you won't be one od the dead, just as if you never get in a motor vehicle you won't die in a crash.

Yes, there is some middle ground. Let's refer to the document the men who formed the Republic signed, specifically Section 8, Article 1

Section 8
1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

If you don't think prohibiting unrestricted ownership of nerve agent is providing for the general welfare of the United States, what exactly does that clause cover?
Straw man? Again?
Are you from California?
 
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CoryT

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You miss the importance of the commas in the sentence.
Pretty much the same way lots of folks conveniently miss the comma in the second amendment.

If you read it correctly it is saying the congress has the power to raise taxes for the purposes of "pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States".

There is nothing about them using taxes to destroy rights much like the government has done ever since the evil folks figured out they could do it a hundred years ago.

Taxes were to be collected for the purposes only of "pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

The whole using taxes as a way to ban and restrict everything and destroy rights is the exact opposite of what was clearly written and is much like exactly what the revolutionary war was fought over.

Also your constant yakking on about fringe fantasy scenarios and hypothetical disease statistics that have no basis in reality in recorded human history really gets tiring. It's about the same as every democrat ever screaming, you are just like Hitler anytime they don't agree with something.

Oh and fission has been done to death, nobody really cares about it as much any more if you have billions and a vision, it's all in fusion stuff now and how to get everything done without any of that pesky fissile material. Lots of people are funding that research all over the world, from groups of the wealthy to groups of governments, because it's a bit too expensive to do on your own. (I mean you can build a fusion reactor in your garage, but it will just be a toy that uses more energy than it produces so it's pointless).
So exactly what laws can any government create? How does a tax stamp and subsequent regulation of VX nerve agent NOT have anything to do with the common defense and general welfare of the United States? Can the state insist you have brake lights on your car? Either we have a nation of laws, enacted by representatives of the people or we don't. Think the state is overreaching? Vote those reps out and put better people in their place.

Extremes are used to define limits. I presume you have heard of a hypothetical problem. The fact that the described disease does not exist does not mean it can't. So far, none of the antis seem to be willing to describe just what, if any, powers the state may have. All I get is "well, if you think I can't own as much Pu-239 as I want, you must be a communist!"

How about fire safety codes? Traffic regulations? Building codes? Is the FAA a legitimate Federal agency?

Rights are either universal and unlimited or they are not. If there are no limits whatsoever exactly what is the role of government? Are we limited to the Ten Commandments? Where does that leave Buddhists?

Seriously, some people here seem to be triggered in the same way as a bunch of #MeToo women at a replay of the Kavanaugh hearings. OMG, someone agreed with Dershowitz! Burn them at the stake now!
 

CoryT

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Straw man? Again?
Are you from California?
Asking a question is not a straw man argument. I'm not refuting the premise. I'm asking if we can limit ownership of a weapon of mass destruction by an individual in spite of the 2A. That's a yes/no question. If you answer no, then the question is are there any restrictions you would find acceptable? What are the ramifications of such a position? Can a society exist where your neighbor can kill millions of people because he has a bad day at the office?

On one side are the Democrats/Communists who want to control every facet of your existence. The opposite extreme is the Anarchist, who wants no controls whatsoever. Somewhere in between is the line where individual liberty is preserved, but a civilized society exists. That line is WAY closer to anarchy than to the Democrats, but it IS there somewhere. Murder is a violation of law. There, we just moved left of anarchy, still right of freedom though. You can't own a handgun. We moved WAY left of liberty. Where's your line?