Alan Dershowitz claims you must take vaccination.

Gunfighter14e2

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The pendulum always swings to the opposite extreme before reverting to center, once major damage has been done to one side or the other. The left has enjoyed their fruits from the mid 60's to-date, that is about to change. People can talk all they want about right an wrong, but the folks who have always put in on the table, are about to get their turn. Kick a dog long enough he will bite,...hurt him long enough or damage his family,... when he's had enough he will hunt the oppressor/tyrant down in the dead of night.
 

CoryT

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CoryT said:

Murder is a violation of law.


There you go again.
So you are suggesting murder is not something the state can prohibit by law?

And still you don't want to answer any of the questions. Are there any laws that are acceptable? Is there a line between despotism and anarchy? If not, how is it you've not started the revolution? Obviously you are compliant with the current system, though you might rail against it. Unless you are writing from a prison cell somewhere.

Look, I don't like where we are either. I'm hopeful it can be resolved at the ballot box, but that seems less and less likely. The next election will be telling I think. either we jump off the bridge, go full retard and elect a Democrat, or enough sane people vote and reject that outcome. Not that Trump represents full on freedom and a return to the Constitution, but we have a chance of recovery as we move along. Every little push to the right improves our position. Some believe we are too far gone. I hope not, civil war is not going to be pretty.
 

W54/XM-388

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So exactly what laws can any government create? How does a tax stamp and subsequent regulation of VX nerve agent NOT have anything to do with the common defense and general welfare of the United States?
Tax stamps have nothing at all do to with common defense of this country from enemies, or the general welfare, they never have. They are simply an attempt at another stupid prohibition due to idiot sheep that wound up becoming ineffective due to the government itself. (Look up what the actual yearly wages were back when the NFA was passed and inflate the cost of that tax stamp to match percentage wise wages today, and you'll understand it was never about taxing stuff it was about banning stuff using twisted tax laws)

You are also conflating 2 very different issues.

I'll put it simply in SJW speak so you could understand it. "My body, My Choice".

Some want to feel the warm comfort of doing whatever they are told.
Others prefer dangerous freedom.
You seem to be firmly in the first camp.

I refuse to be forced to be given some "vaccine" that the makers of have absolute immunity for damages from and where I am not given every bit of information regarding the processes and ingredients.

It must be a choice or if others decide that it's not my choice over what I do with my body, then I'll assume they also agree that I can start choosing what I do to their bodies.

I mean if we are worried about deaths, we can easily pump the population numbers up more than enough to cover it if we stop caring about people's sovereignty over their own bodies and minds.......

It's telling that the same folks pushing the vaccine business are the same that actually want less people around..... makes you wonder....

Perhaps we start getting heavy handed with the medical industry about all the deaths / injuries from medical malpractice and hospital / doctor mistakes, that counts for more each year than this corona cold business...
And... the corona cold was more deadly than it should have been due to the medical industry treating it wrong and then refusing for political reasons to quickly get onboard with the latest research. I mean better to have folks die than to give Trump a win right?

If someone gets sick, with something easily communicated to others, it may be reasonable to ask them to stay home till they get better or stay in the hospital.

(However the flu kills several hundred thousand worldwide each year..... crickets on telling folks to stay home, lots of employers were forcing people to come to work regardless of being sick or risk loosing their jobs.)

That is a far cry from what is being done now or stripping the rights to your body away over some hypothetical thing that may not even work.
And yes, I'm also against things like the draft and such where the state claims they have the right to enslave you.

These discussions are important, in the hopes that when the chips come down, enough folks understand the concept of personal freedom to avoid it all breaking down to the base level which as ALWAYS in history comes down to rights being determined by who kills their fellow man the most efficiently.

Force Gates & companies, rushed vaccine and tracking / identification implants on folks by force or trying to make it impossible to carry on your life without it, and you'll get to see the base level option come into play. Even if your side wins at that, you'll find you won't like the world that makes for.
 

CoryT

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W54/XM-388 said

Tax stamps have nothing at all do to with common defense of this country from enemies, or the general welfare, they never have. They are simply an attempt at another stupid prohibition due to idiot sheep that wound up becoming ineffective due to the government itself. (Look up what the actual yearly wages were back when the NFA was passed and inflate the cost of that tax stamp to match percentage wise wages today, and you'll understand it was never about taxing stuff it was about banning stuff using twisted tax laws)

You are also conflating 2 very different issues.

I'll put it simply in SJW speak so you could understand it. "My body, My Choice".

Some want to feel the warm comfort of doing whatever they are told.
Others prefer dangerous freedom.
You seem to be firmly in the first camp.
unquote

Umm, not hardly. Was the NFA an end run around the Constitution? Absolutely . Most of it is unenforceable by any reasonable reading of the 2A. That said, do I think that the Feds should probably have some restrictions on NBC weapons and other weapons of mass destruction.? Hell yes. The mere existence of the United States depends on it. It's probably bad policy to have the guys in the mosque downtown stockpiling chlorine gas, blister agent and anthrax in a bunch of storage units around town in case someone wants to try and infringe on their first amendment right to freedom of religion. On the other hand, if the members of the Antioch Baptist Church think everyone of their congregation should own an M16 and 5000 rounds of ammo, that seems squarely inside the lines of the 2A. See, there are certain restrictions that don't qualify as an infringement. Individual arms are most certainly covered. Where things start to get blurry is crew served weapons, high explosives and up the chain. The town used to own cannon, and JP Jones had his own armed warship, pursuant to letters of marque. I know a guy that owns a BP cannon, pretty cool. You want to park an M3 howitzer in your backyard with all the shells? That may need some paperwork. That paperwork just can't amount to a defacto ban.

I know Allan Cors, he has a bunch of tanks. That's great, nice collection. Still need some paperwork on the guns installed. Can the tax be 1 Million dollars each? No, that's obviously a pretense to an outright ban. Can it be $50? in today's economy, sure. Way back when, you used to send in the Form 4 when you sold the gun, guy went home with it, Feds processed the registration change. Now, wait months for approval. That's not legitimate.

I appreciate the thought that we make sick people stay home. Only problem is how do they know they are sick if they have no symptoms? Make everyone take a test? There we go again with some medical procedure requirement. I don't think requiring a vaccine for a case like this would ever be something the government needed to do. If it was in fact that bad, like I said, enough people would volunteer and make it a non-issue.

All this is why representatives need to be chosen with care. You can't vote for Dudley Do-Gooder, who thinks they can make the world totally safe if you'd just do what they said. On the other hand, telling people eveyone should have their very own nuke tipped Tomahawk is most lilkey to get suggestions you be committed for observation.
 
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W54/XM-388

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CoryT said:

Murder is a violation of law.
So you are suggesting murder is not something the state can prohibit by law?
There you go again. So if we don't want someone to strip us of control of our bodies we are for murder?
Nice one...

Oh and many states actively promote the murder of the unborn or the just being born because "rights".....

Now if you want someone to kill you or want to kill yourself.... interestingly enough that's becoming the next "human right" championed by the same SJW Elites and Communists that want to force the vaccine on you... Just watch Europe to see what will be here in about 20 years... Suffer from crippling anxiety, sure go ahead get someone to kill you, no problem....

The ones on the conservative side who are all about keeping sovereignty over their own bodies and minds are actually the ones most concerned with protecting life at all stages and levels. The ones pushing for forced vaccines and everything else are the ones who are more interested in killing off anybody inconvenient or not useful enough..... That should tell you what side you are parroting.
 

Aries256

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In the 90/10 case, it's more or less a self correcting issue. Anyone capable of thought would probably fight to get a spot in line, 90 percent of the remainder die and no great loss.
The brain dead, sheep fight to get in line for their masters, the rest of us survive and begin correcting the problems of the brain dead libtard rats.
 
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CoryT

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There you go again. So if we don't want someone to strip us of control of our bodies we are for murder?
Nice one...

Oh and many states actively promote the murder of the unborn or the just being born because "rights".....

Now if you want someone to kill you or want to kill yourself.... interestingly enough that's becoming the next "human right" championed by the same SJW Elites and Communists that want to force the vaccine on you... Just watch Europe to see what will be here in about 20 years... Suffer from crippling anxiety, sure go ahead get someone to kill you, no problem....

The ones on the conservative side who are all about keeping sovereignty over their own bodies and minds are actually the ones most concerned with protecting life at all stages and levels. The ones pushing for forced vaccines and everything else are the ones who are more interested in killing off anybody inconvenient or not useful enough..... That should tell you what side you are parroting.
I suggest you read the post again. There was no relationship between that statement and a vaccine. It was a statement that indicated that there are in fact some legitimate laws. The question then became what is legitimate. I get it, you don't think there is ever any time or any condition where the state can require a particular medical treatment. That's fine. The Supreme Court apparently disagrees (see Jacobson v. Massachusetts in 1905 ). States are somewhat split on the issue, some with requirements and some forbidding it and some with no laws at all. Childhood vaccinations are enforced by limiting access to public schools.

Can public safety at some point override an individuals rights? In some cases the answer must be yes, otherwise you are not going to have much of a society. Requiring you have brake lights on your car is a public safety measure. Does that interfere with your right to freedom of travel?

Demanding you get a vaccine is pretty damn extreme. There had better be no other options available and the threat would have to be the survival of the country. That's a pretty high bar. Bring back smallpox. I doubt you still have a USA if 35% of the population dies. While a certain number of people would still refuse treatment, my guess is a majority would elect to take a vaccine if available.

We are of course nowhere near that, but that does not invalidate the principal.
 

Gunfighter14e2

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On the other hand, telling people eveyone should have their very own nuke tipped Tomahawk is most lilkey to get suggestions you be committed for observation.
So I take it your good with a representative of .gov saying they could use said nuke against US patriots for not bootlicking? I don't trust the gov period based on knowing how they operate, an what they have done behind closed doors an using B/S NS laws, let alone the little the public knows/found out about. The US gov has a history of killing those that oppose their agenda both outside,... an inside,... the US.
 

CoryT

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So I take it your good with a representative of .gov saying they could use said nuke against US patriots for not bootlicking? I don't trust the gov period based on knowing how they operate, an what they have done behind closed doors an using B/S NS laws, let alone the little the public knows/found out about. The US gov has a history of killing those that oppose their agenda both outside,... an inside,... the US.
No, that guy is an asshole who has no business being elected to dogcatcher. That so many have lost faith in the system is telling us the system is broken and in need of repair, not that there should be no system at all. Failing to follow the Constitution does not invalidate the need for it.

If people did not put morons and purely evil people in office, things would work out just fine. That appears to pretty much never work out in the long run, hence the cycle of rise and fall of governments.

Humans like to congregate into groups. Sooner or later the group gets to a size where someone starts making rules, someone ends up being the leader, then you end up with a council, then elections, then some jackass tries to takeover the good thing that was built and declare they are a god, or king, or whatever. After a while some group rises up and stomps his ass. And the cycle begins again.

The problem is that government attracts those who would like to be in control, who think they have all the answers. If you don't want to be in control, you don't even consider running for office. You expect people to behave reasonably, because you do. You don't need anyone to tell you to not steal, rape, kill, etc. So for the most part we ignore government, since we were doing fine without them and had no plans to screw up anyway. Laws unfortunately pile up as the do-gooders try to make life perfect, at least in their view. Pretty soon some moron is coming around telling you you can't collect rainwater off your roof and direct it to your cistern. WTF, over?

Perhaps sometime in the future, humans will find that balance and find out how to keep it. We have not really been around all that long, so far we've not done very well with the whole government thing.
 

LawnMM

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Is there, or is there not, a point at which the state has a compelling interest in public safety to the point when a required vaccination is justified?
IMO, there is not, at least in America.

The basis of the formation of this country is freedom. I believe adults are free to make their own choices, even to their detriment, or the detriment of their children.

I believe the appropriate way this is addressed with people refusing to participate in a greater good solution is ostracism.

I don't believe a government, local / state / federal or otherwise has the authority to mandate health decisions for me.

However, that doesn't stop my employer, for example, from saying don't come back to work till you're vaccinated.

It doesn't mean a restaurant can't say "if you don't have the polio scar we aren't serving you."

Those are choices made by other adults regarding things (their business) within their sphere of control.

I think the response to this virus alone is terrifying. State and Federal government across the country are trampling rights and killing business for a disease that, at worse case, might kill 4% of the population.

I don't think trampling 96% for the benefit of 4% is in keeping with the underlying concept of freedom in America. Had the lethality rate looked more like 50%+ you could make a better argument for the intrusion into people's lives for the greater good.

Just use the Texas hair salon as an example. We're all adults. If you walk in, nobody has a mask on and people are huddled up in groups, and that makes YOU uncomfortable, leave.

It's not the governments function to save you from your own stupidity by closing businesses to help keep your dumb ass out of a dangerous situation.

Survival of the fittest and all that. Here's another one, life is hard... it's harder, and often shorter, if you're stupid.

If you're comfortable with the risk, go for it. You own the consequences whether there are none or you wind up dead.
 

armorpl8chikn

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CoryT said:

Murder is a violation of law.




So you are suggesting murder is not something the state can prohibit by law?

And still you don't want to answer any of the questions. Are there any laws that are acceptable? Is there a line between despotism and anarchy? If not, how is it you've not started the revolution? Obviously you are compliant with the current system, though you might rail against it. Unless you are writing from a prison cell somewhere.

Look, I don't like where we are either. I'm hopeful it can be resolved at the ballot box, but that seems less and less likely. The next election will be telling I think. either we jump off the bridge, go full retard and elect a Democrat, or enough sane people vote and reject that outcome. Not that Trump represents full on freedom and a return to the Constitution, but we have a chance of recovery as we move along. Every little push to the right improves our position. Some believe we are too far gone. I hope not, civil war is not going to be pretty.
No. I'm not answering your questions.
 

W54/XM-388

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I think the response to this virus alone is terrifying. State and Federal government across the country are trampling rights and killing business for a disease that, at worse case, might kill 4% of the population.
More like less than 1% of those who both get it & show bad enough symptoms to seek medical attention.

So in numbers of actual population, 330 million ish, probably 350 million when you count in illegals.
Maybe we get 120k deaths at most from it in a year. So something that will kill 0.0003% of the population.

That puts thing a whole lot more in perspective.
 

CoryT

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LawnMM, no objection to any of that, at least in principal. The current response is mostly idiotic, and mostly in direct violation of the Constitution.

The challenge is most people are not all that responsible, and at some point your personal decisions affect not only you, but EVERYONE else in your society.

IF we had an educated population, with a government they could trust, presenting valid information that could be vetted, like I said, the problem would take care of itself.

Sadly we have none of that.

Can you be required to get a treatment for a non-communicable disease, even if it's fatal? Nope, no way, no how.

On the other hand, you have close contact with someone that turns out to have smallpox, your ass is getting locked up until you have passed the infectious period and we are sure you don't have it. You don't get to say, "Well, I feel fine and don't have any swelling, so I'm going to a rave and rubbing my sweaty body on everyone there." It's not just you you are responsible for now. Your rights end where my nose begins and all that.

It's a really, really tight set of circumstances that justify state response. You get off the plane and I tell you your seatmate has XXX fatal and highly transmissible disease, it's almost certain you have it. Is it a smart response for the state to say, Dude, just go home and don't see or touch anyone for the next 10 days? It is reasonable and legitimate for the state to instead say, "Here, take this pill and you are all set, otherwise we need to put you in this plastic bubble for the next 10 days and run some tests."? I'm going to vote for option two, sorry if that offends your sense of freedom. This of course requires a government worthy of trust in the first place. Idi Amin's Uganda for example would not inspire confidence.

It's a weird area, for sure.
 

armorpl8chikn

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we had an educated population, with a government they could trust, presenting valid information that could be vetted, like I said, the problem would take care of itself.
And...there it is ladies and gentlemen!

Btw Cory, how is your list coming along?
 

CoryT

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More like less than 1% of those who both get it & show bad enough symptoms to seek medical attention.

So in numbers of actual population, 330 million ish, probably 350 million when you count in illegals.
Maybe we get 120k deaths at most from it in a year. So something that will kill 0.0003% of the population.

That puts thing a whole lot more in perspective.
Well, we are coming up on 100K in under 6 months, so a bit worse than that. Does not at all justify the response, but it's pretty bad and I don't advise you get it. Use a bit of common sense and wash your hands, it'll be fine.
 

LawnMM

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This of course requires a government worthy of trust in the first place.
There's the rub, huh. How do we require participation in a drug vaccination program that's rushed to market after suspending test protocols to speed up it's release and still look people in the eye and say, "it's safe, we're sure of it!"

Try to make me take something and you risk a potentially violent response if I don't want to play ball.

Much easier and more sensible to make me stand on principal and forfeit my job because my employer requires proof of the vaccine for employment.

I believe that's less intrusive and offensive to everyone's sense of freedom than some asshole in Washington 'telling' us all what to do.
 
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armorpl8chikn

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The challenge is most people are not all that responsible, and at some point your personal decisions affect not only you, but EVERYONE else in your society.

IF we had an educated population, with a government they could trust, presenting valid information that could be vetted, like I said, the problem would take care of itself.

Sadly we have none of that.
List of what? Governments you can trust with an educated population? Currently that stands at 0.
Sorry I didn't quote enough.

Just find it strange that you think our populace isn't educated. Which ones aren't educated?
 

W54/XM-388

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Well, we are coming up on 100K in under 6 months, so a bit worse than that. Does not at all justify the response, but it's pretty bad and I don't advise you get it. Use a bit of common sense and wash your hands, it'll be fine.
I like many others are wondering if what we got back Dec to Feb of this year actually was it, since the symptoms were pretty similar... All we know is that the doctors said it was a very bad upper respiratory virus that was going around like wildfire. Especially now that it's coming out that it was in the USA since at least early December 2019
 
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armorpl8chikn

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Much easier and more sensible to make me stand on principal and forfeit my job because my employer requires proof of the vaccine for employment.
Dont fret. This thing will reach that level at the very least. I'm betting itll be hard to buy or sell stuff too.
 

CoryT

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Indeed that is the problem. It's currently impossible to trust Big Brother is looking out for your best interests, if in fact it ever is. Thus the need for back sources of info that can be vetted. In this day and age, that may be equally impossible.
 

LawnMM

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Dont fret. This thing will reach that level at the very least. I'm betting itll be hard to buy or sell stuff too.
You're probably right. Do you see my point though? I believe a salon owner, fire chief, senator, whomever...

As free Americans are free to dictate the terms of employment to their employees. If the employee disagrees, I don't believe forcing compliance is the answer.

However, freedom to resist a vaccine or a policy of any kind put forth by your employer has consequences, like losing employment.

How many of us are in a position to financially stand on principal?
 

CoryT

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Sorry I didn't quote enough.

Just find it strange that you think our populace isn't educated. Which ones aren't educated?
Try the population of any big city and find the mean IQ. How many people do you think you can find that know how a vaccine works, what herd immunity means or the numbers required to achieve it?

People in general are abysmally bad at odds and probability for example. I make a living at poker because of it. In another thread one wag boasted how the US is good at math, and then gave an example that was almost, but not quite entirely, wrong.
 
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CoryT

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Sorry I didn't quote enough.

Just find it strange that you think our populace isn't educated. Which ones aren't educated?
Here's another one, ask the average person on the street what kind of government we have. I'll bet the most popular answer is "A democracy". Look up Penn & Teller getting people to sign a petition to ban Di-Hydrogen Oxide. It would be funny if it was not so sad.
 

CoryT

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I like many others are wondering if what we got back Dec to Feb of this year actually was it, since the symptoms were pretty similar... All we know is that the doctors said it was a very bad upper respiratory virus that was going around like wildfire. Especially now that it's coming out that it was in the USA since at least early December 2019
Seems unlikely to have been COVID, but it's not impossible. Hard to tell for sure at this point, could have just been a bad year for flu.
 

W54/XM-388

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Seems unlikely to have been COVID, but it's not impossible. Hard to tell for sure at this point, could have just been a bad year for flu.
The doctors said it was not the flu for sure at the time.

You start talking enough, open mindedly with folks that got sick at that time and comparing symptoms and it will leave you scratching your head.
Especially the part about feeling winded and needing to breathe deeper but still having clear sounding lungs.
 

CoryT

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The doctors said it was not the flu for sure at the time.

You start talking enough, open mindedly with folks that got sick at that time and comparing symptoms and it will leave you scratching your head.
Especially the part about feeling winded and needing to breathe deeper but still having clear sounding lungs.
Maybe, like I said, not impossible. Absent an antibody test now, or a test for flu at the time, all we know for sure is there does not seem to be a spike in the death rate during that period. Not conclusive, but suggestive. That's how the Wuhan cases were discovered, the spike in hospitalizations/deaths.

Based on current testing results, the estimation is some 35% of people may be asymptomatic upon being infected. Antibody testing suggests somewhere between 2.5% and 10% of the population has been infected. That's a horrible spread in the range and not very reliable. Sweden currently reports a 10% death rate, which is a pretty big anomaly in worldwide data. Right now, the worldwide data suggests somewhere between 10% and .7% death rate OF PEOPLE WHO DEVELOP SEVERE DISEASE. Also not a great number, fairly low confidence level because we can't really say what percentage develop severe symptoms.

Still lots of unknowns, but plenty of data to indicate hysteria is unwarranted.
 

armorpl8chikn

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Seems unlikely to have been COVID, but it's not impossible. Hard to tell for sure at this point, could have just been a bad year for flu.
I've had pneumonia a few times, bronchitis many times, sinusitis many times, chemical pneumonia twice from chlorine gas.
What I had was none of those. Doctors said my lungs didn't sound like bronchitis or pneumonia. Maybe I should have demanded a chest xray, but I was convinced I had bronchitis that was about to be pneumonia, because my lungs weren't productive.
They gave me antibiotics, I only got worse.
I didn't even consider I had Covid, because it wasnt here yet....or so we were all told. Everyone at my wife's work had it, everyone in my household had it. Many at my work had it, but they didn't get it from me. It was highly contagious. I did think I would end up in the hospital, I was ready to go to the hospital, right before I got better. They gave me Tamiflu, it made me sicker.
My place of employment is rife with stories exactly like mine. One guy went through 3 different courses of antibiotics with no change.
I've had the flu 3 times in my life. At no time when I had the flu, did I ever give it to, or get it from anyone in my household.

We have determined that the CDC, the WHO, the Chinese, and various governments have told a laundry list of lies, related to Covid.

The common cold is a Corona virus, they used to call them rhino viruses. They haven't developed a useful vaccine in 50 years for the common cold. Now they have a miracle vaccine for Covid 19 and seem hot in the ass to make sure everyone gets the vaccine.
Why is the government so determined to push the flu vaccine every year? Despite the fact that it's so often inaccurate, or ineffective? What the fuck is it really?
This is "new", it has to be new to stoke fear.

I'll finish up with this little ditty.
"Dont piss down my back and tell me its raining."
 
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CoryT

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Coronaviruses are not rhinoviruses. There are quite a few rhinoviruses, no one has bothered to make a vaccine as it's hardly worth the effort. It's true we never have had a coronavirus vaccine. That's not because we can't. It's not very likely we'll have one this year (of course Fauci said that, so the direct opposite is probably true since he's apparently an agent of Satan).

Why suggest a flu vaccine every year? Because it kills upwards of 60K people per year, when some 40 to 60 percent of people actually get vaccinated! Think of the toll if no one took it. Have you any idea how many flu variants exist? Want something truly terrifying? Try H7N9 and make it airborne like this coronavirus. That would be seriously nasty. Fortunately it's a type A virus, and not highly transmissible.

Take an antibody test. Don't trust the results? I can offer nothing further for you, you've elected to believe that which you want to believe.

Antibiotics have no effect on a viral infection. Tamiflu can shorten the duration and reduce the effects of a flu infection, if given in time. It's not a cure nor a vaccine. It does not make you sick, or sicker, neither does the flu vaccine. Correlation does not make for causation.
 

Aries256

Its Asshole, Major Asshole, nice to meet ya!
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Minuteman
Sep 26, 2019
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So I take it your good with a representative of .gov saying they could use said nuke against US patriots for not bootlicking? I don't trust the gov period based on knowing how they operate, an what they have done behind closed doors an using B/S NS laws, let alone the little the public knows/found out about. The US gov has a history of killing those that oppose their agenda both outside,... an inside,... the US.
When the govnt says jump, libtards ask how high, patriots tell them to go play hide and go fuck themselves.
 

armorpl8chikn

General Pain in the Ass
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Coronaviruses are not rhinoviruses. There are quite a few rhinoviruses, no one has bothered to make a vaccine as it's hardly worth the effort. It's true we never have had a coronavirus vaccine. That's not because we can't. It's not very likely we'll have one this year (of course Fauci said that, so the direct opposite is probably true since he's apparently an agent of Satan).

Why suggest a flu vaccine every year? Because it kills upwards of 60K people per year, when some 40 to 60 percent of people actually get vaccinated! Think of the toll if no one took it. Have you any idea how many flu variants exist? Want something truly terrifying? Try H7N9 and make it airborne like this coronavirus. That would be seriously nasty. Fortunately it's a type A virus, and not highly transmissible.

Take an antibody test. Don't trust the results? I can offer nothing further for you, you've elected to believe that which you want to believe.

Antibiotics have no effect on a viral infection. Tamiflu can shorten the duration and reduce the effects of a flu infection, if given in time. It's not a cure nor a vaccine. It does not make you sick, or sicker, neither does the flu vaccine. Correlation does not make for causation.
You are correct, rhino and corona aren't identical. I had always heard a rhino virus was the common cold.....hmmm....seems corona viruses are also a common cold

Corona virus isn't airborne, if it was we would all have it by now. Where the hell did you hear it was airborne? You talk like you know what you are saying yet, much of what you say is horseshit.
 

CoryT

Gunny Sergeant
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Mar 5, 2004
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Transmitted by aerosol droplet. While not airborne in the sense of being suspended in the air, like smallpox, a cough can transmit it. Research continues on how transmissible it is in indoor environments via air circulation systems. That research suggests it may be a significant source of infection .
 

500grains

Private
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I saw an article that says the droplets can go 23 feet in a room with calm air. Add air conditioning blowing stuff around and that may increase.

Another article pointed out that outdoor spread is much less likely due to air volume diluting the virus and natural air currents.
 

armorpl8chikn

General Pain in the Ass
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Transmitted by aerosol droplet. While not airborne in the sense of being suspended in the air, like smallpox, a cough can transmit it. Research continues on how transmissible it is in indoor environments via air circulation systems. That research suggests it may be a significant source of infection .
I really dont have time for your shit. Smallpox airborne? Rarely, and I'm betting extremely rare.
You really aren't trying now.
 

Strykervet

Resident Phoenix Eye and Dim Mak Instructor
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Jun 5, 2011
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I'll get it if I want to. If it's like the flu vaccine I probably will. If it's like the anthrax vaccine I probably won't.

I'm kinda done listening to assholes like that though in any case.
 
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CoryT

Gunny Sergeant
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So far, not a serious argument against the position of a mandatory vaccine. Lots of you can't make me, but that's it. Insults, but no substance. Someone trots out the "My body, my choice" mantra used by the abortion proponents. That's a terrible argument for them, and worse for this. If you believe life begins at conception, then the procedure has an effect (death) on another human, which we cannot allow. In the case of a vaccine, we are potentially affecting hundreds, even thousands. That argument is worth even less.

Lets see if we can't do better.

I see nowhere in the Constitution where the Federal government is granted dominion and control over individual citizens. That's an important distinction, we don't have a King, we elect Presidents, we are not subjects of the Crown, we are free citizens. The federal powers are enumerated, see section 8 in Article 1. As one member pointed out, item 1 provides for taxes, duties, imposts and excises, it does not say anything about making criminal law. Can't make refusing a vaccine a crime, at least not under that pretense. 2 and 3 clearly have no bearing. Under item 4 you could make a case that a vaccine could be required for Naturalization, that does not hold for existing citizens. 5-9 and 11-18 do not apply.

10 is a bit of a sticky wicket. Piracy and felonies on the high seas no problem, but the Laws of Nations might have some application. It's been quite some time since I read that, and I'm sad to say I do not have a copy on hand. I do not recall anything in there that could permit the state to compel actions against ones own self interest however. As vaccines can/do have some potential for harmful side effects, no matter how slight, it can be construed as being against your own self interest and therefore not a legal order.

While Jacobson v Mass is considered settled law, recognize that Dred Scott was also once settled law. At the time, various states (5) actually passed laws PROHIBITING mandatory vaccination. 35 took no action on the matter. Passing a law that prohibits that which you already have no power to do seems a belt and suspenders approach, but it is indicative of the mindset of legislators at the time. They were trying to prevent an 'end run' scenario, where other legislators attempt to usurp power they do not rightfully have.

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV. I do think one could make a pretty convincing case that the feds have no power in this area and I think the current SC would be inclined to agree.

Powers not granted to the feds fall to the state, or the people. Can the State insist you be vaccinated? That's what Jacobson decided. That appears to be wrong, or at least split enough to require review. See the self interest argument above. You can't even be compelled to talk (see Amendment 5), how could you be compelled to act?

There are two groups that could be compelled, members of the Armed Forces and immigrants. I see no reasonable arguments to be made there.

Guys this fight, if it ever comes to that, is not going to be won in the street fighting it out with the forces of evil. If that happens, no one really wins. They won't be coming door to door with a syringe in hand, that would be silly. They would just make it impossible to live. You won't be able to renew your license, use a credit card, book a hotel room or flight, get your kid into school or enter a public building without certification of vaccination. These are the tactics that will be used. So instead of being triggered by a contrary view, try thinking and using a reasoned argument. We have won back much, why do you think the Left has gone so bonkers? No doubt we have a long row to hoe, but lets hope it can be done without CWII.
 

BufordTJustice

Private
Minuteman
Jan 9, 2019
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Very entertaining posts, I would argue there is no such thing as "settled law", " absolute rights" or "exact science". Neither is good sense anywhere near common. I would also caution against the arguments for the collective usurping the "rights", or identity of the individual. Governments are flawed by the very nature that they are comprised of people, and yet our representatives fail to acknowledge this with restraint. No, I am not getting a vaccine for Covid-19, why? Because I'm an adult. And unlike xshot so eloquently stated earlier, I'm posting and have nothing helpful to add to this discussion.
 

W54/XM-388

Online Training Member
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Certain religious groups are going to be at the forefront of the coming court battles over forced vaccines either forced directly at gunpoint or the overlords trying to make it impossible to live life without them.
 
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500grains

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Before we get all worked up about this, consider that a vaccine is not likely to work. The SARS vaccine causes so much lung damage that it was not used. Even if the vaccine works, it may just have 30 to 50 percent effectiveness and not really relevant.