Alec Baldwin literally just shot two people

#551
I'm not so sure Baldwin will skate on this. At least not from a civil standpoint. Remember, O.J. was found not guilty in criminal court. But that didn't stop Ron Goldman from winning a $30 Million dollar civil suit against him. The downside to Goldman, is O.J. was pretty much broke after the trial. Goldman hasn't collected squat from him. (His home and NFL pensions are untouchable in court).

This is not the case with Baldwin. He is supposedly worth north of $60 Million. Plus, there is no doubt Baldwin killed her. O.J. was found not guilty of murder. (Even though everyone knows he, "did it"). That was not the outcome in criminal court. Bottom line, while it's doubtful Baldwin will serve any jail time, he could be held liable, and be forced to pay out MILLIONS in a civil settlement.

And while it's almost certain his production company has liability insurance. That in itself doesn't mean it's enough to cover something this drastically expensive.
 
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#554
After pondering this for several days, as far as I can discern it, if an absolute sense, there is no way to absolve Baldwin from guilt.

-His is the last hand the gun was in

-He didnt check the cylinder as any responsible gun handler would do

-He pulled the trigger

-A human died

End of discussion. The only question should be the extent of his guilt and punishment, civil or criminal.
 
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#555
1635515201862.png
 
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#558
billt said:
I'm not so sure Baldwin will skate on this. At least not from a civil standpoint. Remember, O.J. was found not guilty in criminal court. But that didn't stop Ron Goldman from winning a $30 Million dollar civil suit against him. The downside to Goldman, is O.J. was pretty much broke after the trial. Goldman hasn't collected squat from him. (His home and NFL pensions are untouchable in court).

This is not the case with Baldwin. He is supposedly worth north of $60 Million. Plus, there is no doubt Baldwin killed her. O.J. was found not guilty of murder. (Even though everyone knows he, "did it"). That was not the outcome in criminal court. Bottom line, while it's doubtful Baldwin will serve any jail time, he could be held liable, and be forced to pay out MILLIONS in a civil settlement.

And while it's almost certain his production company has liability insurance. That in itself doesn't mean it's enough to cover something this drastically expensive.
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They're going to get into his savings and assets because the cheap skate only had 6 million in insurance.
He's finished by the time the lawsuits and his wife get their pie.
BytorJr said:
He said she said

www.foxnews.com

‘Rust’ armorer breaks silence on Alec Baldwin shooting incident, blames producers for unsafe conditions

Hannah Gutierrez Reed spoke out to deny certain rumors about the on-set shooting involving Alec Baldwin that left cinematographer Halyna Hutchins dead.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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No it's not she said he said.

She's outlining what the minimum acceptable industry standards are.
She just established the fact Alex Baldwins company did not participate in nor follow the Standards.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, because of who her father is she has a leg up on safety.
Everyone keeps pointing to her, hopefully when the facts come out this finger-pointing is going to blow up in their faces.
 
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#560
Ravenworks said:
They're going to get into his savings and assets because the cheap skate only had 6 million in insurance.
He's finished by the time the lawsuits and his wife get their pie.


No it's not she said he said.

She's outlining what the minimum acceptable industry standards are.
She just established the fact Alex Baldwins company did not participate in nor follow the Standards.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, because of who her father is she has a leg up on safety.
Everyone keeps pointing to her, hopefully when the facts come out this finger-pointing is going to blow up in their faces.
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He said she said is the point of the whole incident we are in. I have no doubt safety was NOT of importance in a low grade movie. She may look like a freak, she may be a freak; but, you are correct she may well be quite particular with her safety standards and no doubt Baldwin is ultimately the one responsible for pulling that trigger. We don't (and likely won't) know the details here.
 
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#562
I don't think anyone is saying Baldwin is not responsible or any less responsible for what happened (it's all but indisputable at this point), but it's premature to say the armorer and the other dipshit that handled the firearm have zero liability before more facts are known. There's a lot of questions:

-Did the armorer allow the props to be used for target shooting?
-Why weren't the guns locked up?
-Why was there not a controlled sign in/out process?
-Where was the armorer when the gun was taken off the cart?
-Why wasn't the armorer on set?
etc.

I said it before - everyone tied to this production was negligent. Whether they were negligent to the point of being criminal is up for debate.


If I was armorer and around a dipshit liberals, I'd have a trigger/cable lock on every piece in addition to a safe. There would be a document for every time the safe is open, who took what, along with signatures. Lock wouldn't come off until scene and then would go right back on. And I was behind a camera and the shot required someone point a real firearm anywhere near me, I'd be fucking sure to check the firearm myself - none of these fucks are professional shooters. I work in a job where, among other things, I can very quickly wind up in prison if I'm negligent - I'm well versed in CYA. If I'm not comfortable doing what the customer wants, I don't do it. Once again, personal responsibility is an alien concept to far too many people these days.
 
#563
Does anyone know what an actor like Clint Eastwood did in shooting shots for safety? Did he personally check the gun before shooting and did he point at the person or hold off target when he fired the gun? I have seen nothing of what other actors do in shooting shots.
 
#564
GRAYHAIR said:
Does anyone know what an actor like Clint Eastwood did in shooting shots for safety? Did he personally check the gun before shooting and did he point at the person or hold off target when he fired the gun? I have seen nothing of what other actors do in shooting shots.
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Not supposed to use live-fire capable weapons in a scene that calls for pointing the 'prop' directly at another person.

If you are using live-fire capable weapons, you never point at another person. You point like 20deg off to the side and they are supposed to use camera angles and editing hide the fact its not directly in line of fire etc.
 
#566
You have 4 basic rules to firearms safety

1. Only point a gun at something you wish to destroy
2. Treat all guns as though they are loaded
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot
4. Know what is beyond your target

Nerf, rubber-band, and cap guns are all toys and can be treated as such. Even a paintball gun can be lethal depending on shot placement. I've seen a 40 year old man almost die after developing a blood clot from a shot to the neck. Mr Baldwin did not follow any of the 4 basic rules and tragically someone lost their life. I will tell you first hand, that having a parent convicted of manslaughter is tough.... will damn near tear a family apart. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but that being said.... Alec pulled the trigger on a firearm that was pointed at another individual. He never checked to see if the weapon was loaded, and thus hit 2 birds with one stone, breaking all 4 rules.

The fact that he is re-sharing articles on his social media platform, shows he has zero moral compass. He is not a man, and fails to see the consequences and repercussions of his action. From my perspective, a certain level of money can purchase a certain level of ignorance. Rich Liberals live in a bubble, and it isn't until the bubble pops, and they are charged with manslaughter, that they come back down to reality.
 
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#568
Long_Action said:
You have 4 basic rules to firearms safety

1. Only point a gun at something you wish to destroy
2. Treat all guns as though they are loaded
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot
4. Know what is beyond your target

Nerf, rubber-band, and cap guns are all toys and can be treated as such. Even a paintball gun can be lethal depending on shot placement. I've seen a 40 year old man almost die after developing a blood clot from a shot to the neck. Mr Baldwin did not follow any of the 4 basic rules and tragically someone lost their life. I will tell you first hand, that having a parent convicted of manslaughter is tough.... will damn near tear a family apart. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but that being said.... Alec pulled the trigger on a firearm that was pointed at another individual. He never checked to see if the weapon was loaded, and thus hit 2 birds with one stone, breaking all 4 rules.

The fact that he is re-sharing articles on his social media platform, shows he has zero moral compass. He is not a man, and fails to see the consequences and repercussions of his action. From my perspective, a certain level of money can purchase a certain level of ignorance. Rich Liberals live in a bubble, and it isn't until the bubble pops, and they are charged with manslaughter, that they come back down to reality.
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I was just having this discussion last night. The first rule I was taught was ALL GUNS ARE LOADED until verified they are not. Growing up duck hunting, my family's #1 rule was "all guns are loaded" and the "never point that thing at something if you don't want to hit it and damn sure that muzzle better never cross a person even if walking back from the blind (barrels up or down)!!"

Reminds me of a video of some hunts at a "paid farm" I saw on innerwebs. They had a guy flushing birds and then the paid "shooters" shot right by him on a passing shot. I'd have walked off at that point. That's the point of a bird dog!!! Or just walking till they flush (best have your cylinder/imp-cyl choke).

Last night I was lamenting that the 2 children of the libtards across the street wouldn't know what to do if they found a gun. As well I thought that I should at least teach the other kids (with parents permission) that if they ever find a gun, they are to leave it alone because "all guns are loaded."

Ultimately, the responsibility lay upon the one pulling the trigger - period. That person is Alec Baldwin. Baldwin likely will get off completely without charges. Disgusting!!!!!!!
 
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#570
BytorJr said:
Last night I was lamenting that the 2 children of the libtards across the street wouldn't know what to do if they found a gun. As well I thought that I should at least teach the other kids (with parents permission) that if they ever find a gun, they are to leave it alone because "all guns are loaded."
Click to expand...

Don't. Some asshole parent will find a way to claim you were liable if their little johnny shoots someone.

One of my rules is to stay away from everyone else's kids unless I know the parents extremely well.
 
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#572
DaveSC said:
Who is gonna play Baldwin in the SNL skit of this fiasco? Baldwin was heard saying, "Move over Red Man this will energize SNL".

Opps...I just heard Trump will play Baldwin on SNL!
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I am no Trump fan, but the very thought of this cracked me up. If the subjectmatter was not so tragic it would be hilarious.
 
#573
I'm sure this will be met with a deluge of derision, but I don't see Baldwin as owning the blame for not following gun safety. This forum is more than a little biased, with respect to the importance of knowing and following gun safety. But to expect someone who doesn't like guns, and never uses them, outside his acting roles, to understand the rules is a bit of a leap. Also in the Evil Knievel department would be claiming that everyone is exposed to guns, so he should naturally have learned. What if the movie was about Three Mile Island and they were lucky enough to shoot on site? The responsible parties have assured him that the controls were in training mode, but they fucked that up and he creates another meltdown. Is he to blame because he doesn't understand the safety rules of nuclear energy? That's no less foreign than proper gun handling to a lot more people than you think.

I'm not an fan of Baldwin's, or anyone else really, and I take major umbrage with Hollywood hypocrites wanting to outlaw guns, but using the shit out of them in projects that expand their wealth. Haven't seen a De Niro or Pacino movie since discovering they were anti gun. But loving or hating an actor shouldn't color anyone's assessment of a situation.
 
#574
These actors do all kinds of crazy things to prepare for their role in a movie. They are praised in the magazines for loosing 50 lbs, shaving their eyebrows, learning to fly or any other bullshit. All the crap they spew about firearms being dangerous and scary. How many take a week, a day or even a couple hours to learn firearms safety?
 
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#575
The38Super said:
I'm sure this will be met with a deluge of derision, but I don't see Baldwin as owning the blame for not following gun safety. This forum is more than a little biased, with respect to the importance of knowing and following gun safety. But to expect someone who doesn't like guns, and never uses them, outside his acting roles, to understand the rules is a bit of a leap. Also in the Evil Knievel department would be claiming that everyone is exposed to guns, so he should naturally have learned. What if the movie was about Three Mile Island and they were lucky enough to shoot on site? The responsible parties have assured him that the controls were in training mode, but they fucked that up and he creates another meltdown. Is he to blame because he doesn't understand the safety rules of nuclear energy? That's no less foreign than proper gun handling to a lot more people than you think.

I'm not an fan of Baldwin's, or anyone else really, and I take major umbrage with Hollywood hypocrites wanting to outlaw guns, but using the shit out of them in projects that expand their wealth. Haven't seen a De Niro or Pacino movie since discovering they were anti gun. But loving or hating an actor shouldn't color anyone's assessment of a situation.
Click to expand...

See the post below your own for the answer

And even if you were right, as long as Alec Baldwin gets legally fucked I don't care how it happens.

Progressives are fond of saying "by whatever means".......well, I'm good using that too. We need to play even dirtier than the opposition. Fair fights are for losers.
 
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#576
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
These actors do all kinds of crazy things to prepare for their role in a movie. They are praised in the magazines for loosing 50 lbs, shaving their eyebrows, learning to fly or any other bullshit. All the crap they spew about firearms being dangerous and scary. How many take a week, a day or even a couple hours to learn firearms safety?
Click to expand...
Keanu Reeves
 
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#577
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#578
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#580
Maggot said:
He could have just said:

"I didnt check the gun and I killed someone."
Click to expand...

He really doesn't give two Hershey squirts about the dead woman or her family. His only thought is how is he going to get out of this.

That's how all narcissistic megalomaniacs think. Besides, he is an actor.

He's going to play his part perfectly. Then when (and if) he gets out of this without costing him a fortune, he will be working on his golf swing and next movie.
 
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#581
Baldwin is now a major victim in this tragedy and this will be the most important acting job of his career.

I cannot help being so hard on the guy. I believe what goes around comes around. I don't like a bully. The set was unsafe and many people walked off a day before because of it. Instead of cleaning the place up...the show must go on. If a criminal trial does not proceed against Baldwin, (and I doubt it will since the victim card is being dealt), a civil trial will do him in.
 
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#582
The38Super said:
I'm sure this will be met with a deluge of derision, but I don't see Baldwin as owning the blame for not following gun safety. This forum is more than a little biased, with respect to the importance of knowing and following gun safety. But to expect someone who doesn't like guns, and never uses them, outside his acting roles, to understand the rules is a bit of a leap. Also in the Evil Knievel department would be claiming that everyone is exposed to guns, so he should naturally have learned. What if the movie was about Three Mile Island and they were lucky enough to shoot on site? The responsible parties have assured him that the controls were in training mode, but they fucked that up and he creates another meltdown. Is he to blame because he doesn't understand the safety rules of nuclear energy? That's no less foreign than proper gun handling to a lot more people than you think.

I'm not an fan of Baldwin's, or anyone else really, and I take major umbrage with Hollywood hypocrites wanting to outlaw guns, but using the shit out of them in projects that expand their wealth. Haven't seen a De Niro or Pacino movie since discovering they were anti gun. But loving or hating an actor shouldn't color anyone's assessment of a situation.
Click to expand...
Baldwin knew guns were deadly. Baldwin pointed a gun at another person and pulled the trigger. Would you do that? What's your threshold for negligence?
 
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#586
All that "interview" did was expose his wife as an asshole just as large, or in fact larger than he is..... And that's quite an accomplishment. You can tell by both their attitudes, they couldn't give a shit about what happened to that girl. They're both on the offensive, and are more worried about how all of this is going to play out for them. "Billions and billions of rounds, in a trillion to one chance". He should play the lottery.
 
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#589
The38Super said:
Shouldn't have bothered with this crowd. View a situation from any perspective but mine? Nah; can't do that.
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The problem is your view holds zero merit from a legal standpoint. I'm sure he'll get off from the two tiered legal system, but from a strictly legal standpoint without regard to who he is, he's negligent and liable. Both from the actor's perspective and the producer prospective.
It's all going to come down to the politics of the DA on whether to charge.
But the bottom line is your logic as you stated it is bullshit. You're entitled to have and state it. But it's still terribly flawed and it's bullshit.
 
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#590
www.foxnews.com

Hilaria Baldwin supports husband Alec after he speaks publicly on deadly 'Rust' shooting

Hilaria Baldwin shared her support for husband Alec after he spoke publicly for the first time following the fatal shooting of Halyna Hutchins on the set of "Rust."
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

And...here it comes:

Baldwin said Saturday he is "extremely interested" in limiting the use of guns on movie sets following the fatal incident.

So, guarantee he won't just want to remove them from "movie sets." He's going to triple-dog-dare!!
 
#591
BytorJr said:
www.foxnews.com

Hilaria Baldwin supports husband Alec after he speaks publicly on deadly 'Rust' shooting

Hilaria Baldwin shared her support for husband Alec after he spoke publicly for the first time following the fatal shooting of Halyna Hutchins on the set of "Rust."
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

And...here it comes:

Baldwin said Saturday he is "extremely interested" in limiting the use of guns on movie sets following the fatal incident.

So, guarantee he won't just want to remove them from "movie sets." He's going to triple-dog-dare!!
Click to expand...
What a fucking hypocrite!
 
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#593
billt said:
All that "interview" did was expose his wife as an asshole just as large, or in fact larger than he is..... And that's quite an accomplishment. You can tell by both their attitudes, they couldn't give a shit about what happened to that girl. They're both on the offensive, and are more worried about how all of this is going to play out for them. "Billions and billions of rounds, in a trillion to one chance". He should play the lottery.
Click to expand...

Here's some old news to show you what assholes he and his wife are.
My ex- in laws live right where this happened.
The locals hate them for the shit they pulled.
Basically boils down to his wife wanting a hobby shop and shit all over someone's livelihood doing it..


nypost.com

Beloved Hamptons equestrian ‘ousted,’ replaced by Alec and Hilaria Baldwin’s charity

Equestrian Jan Warner claims the A-list couple helped force her out of her horsey home.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
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#594
Soulezoo said:
The problem is your view holds zero merit from a legal standpoint. he's negligent and liable. Both from the actor's perspective and the producer prospective.
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At a personal level, the legal concept of reliance is likely valid, from a civil perspective and perhaps criminal (not an attorney). He reasonably relied on professional experts in gun handling, hired to provide him a prop that was safe to fire on a movie set to do so. I guess you're an attorney and know better than me.
 
#595
The38Super said:
At a personal level, the legal concept of reliance is likely valid, from a civil perspective and perhaps criminal (not an attorney). He reasonably relied on professional experts in gun handling, hired to provide him a prop that was safe to fire on a movie set to do so. I guess you're an attorney and know better than me.
Click to expand...
Well, apparently, you think you're an attorney and then allude that you aren't. Can't have it both ways.
There are well more than enough legal opinions out there on this case. You can find them on your own. You'll even find one that agrees with you around the edges. Everyone of them, even while differing in the details, say Baldwin is fucked one way or another.
 
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#596
The38Super said:
At a personal level, the legal concept of reliance is likely valid, from a civil perspective and perhaps criminal (not an attorney). He reasonably relied on professional experts in gun handling, hired to provide him a prop that was safe to fire on a movie set to do so. I guess you're an attorney and know better than me.
Click to expand...
If Armoror's rules say "never point even a cold gun directly at person" then he is in danger of having legal expsoure.
 
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#597
Here is industry guidelines in hollywood, fwiw

See points, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 etc
Perhaps the closest to a list of suggested rules is that published by the Industry-Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee.
Its advice includes:
  • Blanks can kill. Treat all firearms as though they are loaded
  • Refrain from pointing a firearm at yourself or anyone else
  • Never place your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to shoot
  • Anyone involved in using a firearm must be thoroughly briefed at an on-set safety meeting
  • Only a qualified person should load a firearm
  • Protective shields, eye and hearing protection should be used by anyone in close proximity or the line of fire
  • Any actor who is required to stand near the line of fire should be allowed to witness the loading of the firearms
Click to expand...
A "cold gun" still being a legal FIREARM seems key concept...
 
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#598
Soulezoo said:
Well, apparently, you think you're an attorney and then allude that you aren't. Can't have it both ways.
There are well more than enough legal opinions out there on this case. You can find them on your own. You'll even find one that agrees with you around the edges. Everyone of them, even while differing in the details, say Baldwin is fucked one way or another.
Click to expand...
So, what you're saying is it's a legal quagmire, but I'm the asshole for pointing out an alternate legal outcome. Okay, I'll be like the rest of you and say he's fucked and I'm overjoyed about it, for whatever reasons you have.
 
#600
The legal standard for a criminal's conviction is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Given that the AD declared "cold gun" immediately before the event, and it seems there are at least 3 people (maybe more) whose negligence contributed to what happened, it would be tough to get a criminal conviction against any individual. A civil action is a whole different ball of wax.
 
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