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American hostages killed

Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pepperbelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The following was quoted at the bottom of the article:

"As of February 15, pirates were holding 33 vessels and 712 hostages, according to the International Maritime Bureau."

This should not be acceptable to any country. The whole world should declare war on this shit. I wonder how many deaths it will take before Somalia is dealt with. From that article it seems as if piracy is the national occupation.

Jim </div></div>

Well I have been thinking how much longer is everyone going to stand by and let this happen. I guess those numbers answer that question. It is sad that no one is doing anything.
 
Re: American hostages killed

See "thug navy showdown". Somoli pirates vs navy of Iran.
 
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They def should not have been there. These people have to use thier heads. This area is one of the worst in the world for piracy. I don't get it
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To me, it seems if you are dumb enough to sail a mulitmillion dollar yacht into dangerous waters, you forfeit your rights to be protected. Call me harsh, but they should have torpedoed that ship, even if the hostages were alive. If we made it known, that we will sink the ships, even with live friendlies on board, it takes away all the pirates barganing power. Best way to neutralize them, take the hostages out of the equation.


It seems odd to me, that we have all these satelites, carriers, subs, and whatever else out there. And yet a bunch of 3rd world pirates, our out manuevering us? REALLY? Is it only me, or am I missing something? </div></div>

1st point: While I sort of agree that they shouldn't have been there and probably knew the risks they were still U.S. citizens that are afforded a certain amount of protection and backing by the U.S. The U.S. has a fundamental obligation to protect citizens lives even if it means going to war to do it. (However, this theory has become corrupted over the years often trading our lives for more paper in some asshole's wallet)

2nd point: I think once you spend some time in the Navy you sort of gain perspective on just how large the oceans really are. I would bet that you could fit every single ship the U.S. has into just a handful of acres. There is simply no way to be everywhere at once. Satellites cover fractions of the Earth and the ones doing the looking are only looking at where they have been tasked to look. We don't have 30 satellites up looking at a few square miles of pirate waters in the off chance they pirate something. Once a pirate does jack a ship you could peek down on it but why? </div></div>

I agree, that we should protect our citizens, here and abroad. Right off I am going to admit, I dont know the statistics of how many US citizens are killed by pirates, as opposed to let go. If the number is more that are killed, and we go ahead and blow up that ship, might that not send a signal to other pirates, and in turn save lives in the future? Honestly I dont know, but would seem to make sense to me. Its obvious what we are doing now, is not working. Logistically speaking, I dont know if we should invade Somalia over this, it could turn into a hornets nest just like Iraq (I do think what we did in Iraq was necesarry). We could get marred down there, unless we just went in, kicked ass and left. I dont know if USA has the stomach for another ground war. Another thing, how many of our soldiers would die?

Second point, very true, you present an angle I hadnt though of.
 
Re: American hostages killed

It seems we have been going to Somalia:

WASHINGTON, Sept 14 (Reuters) – Helicopter-borne U.S. special forces attacked a car in southern Somalia on Monday and killed one of the region’s most wanted militants, U.S. sources familiar with the operation said.

Kenya-born Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan, 28, was wanted over a hotel bombing and a botched missile attack on an Israeli airliner leaving Kenya’s Mombasa airport in 2002.

The U.S. sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the United States believed that Nabhan was killed in the attack and that his body had been taken into U.S. custody.

At least one U.S. helicopter was involved in the operation, the sources said.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to comment “on any alleged operation in Somalia.”

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/09/14/us-troops-attack-somalia/

Following confirmation by the French military that they definitely weren’t in the process of invading Somalia, the United States military is now confirming that it is, in fact, American forces that are pouring into the southern portion of the country in a helicopter-backed invasion.

US military officials confirmed to the Associated Press today that forces from the US Joint Special Operations Command had invaded the lawless African nation, and were the ones responsible for the attack on the tiny village of Barawe this morning that was the first staging ground of the attack.

What the officials wouldn’t comment on was exactly why the United States, which launched a failed “peacekeeping” operation in the nation in 1993 and backed an Ethiopian invasion in 2007, had decided to launch yet another foreign adventure, though media outlets speculated that it was probably something to do with al-Qaeda.

The United States has recently been supplying the self-described Somali “government” with “tons of arms,” according to the State Department. Yet reports on the ground suggest that forces loyal to this faction, which only controls a handful of city blocks in the capital city of Mogadishu, have generally just sold the US-supplied weapons on the open market.

Though without any concrete information about what the American military actually intends to do in Somalia it will be difficult to speculate about the size and scope of the invasion, with roughly 200,000 soldiers committed to Iraq and Afghanistan (and more escalations on the way in the later) it seems hard to imagine the nation is looking to commit to yet another long-term occupation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/14/us-troops-raid-somalia

The French have been there too:

Paris – The French military on Monday denied claims that its forces were involved in a raid on a village in an Islamist-controlled area of southern Somalia.

“There was no French operation,” said admiral Christophe Prazuck, spokesman for the armed forces’ general staff.

The spokesman said the French forces present in the region were operating within the framework of the European Union anti-piracy force Atalante and that “they did not intervene over Somali territory.”

Somali elders and witnesses said foreign troops staged a helicopter raid in the village of Erile, around 200km south of the capital Mogadishu, opening fire on a vehicle and killing several people inside.

The area is controlled by the Shebab, an Al Qaeda-inspired organisation engaged in a massive offensive against the Somali government and which is believed to be holding a French agent kidnapped in July.

A local Islamist commander who asked to remain anonymous claimed that the helicopters were French.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/france-denies-role-in-somalia-raid-1.458495

Jamie
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another thing, how many of our soldiers would die?
</div></div>

I think that's one of the major problems with a ground invasion; collateral damage. Personally, I'm not willing to trade U.S. solders' lives for a "maybe this will work" situation. In the past we have used bombing campaigns where there is high collateral damage to the enemy and their people (families) to affect pressure/end wars. In-effect, people get tired of seeing their friends/family burned up and make the change internally which is the only way to create real change as seen by the gross failures in Iraq/Nam/etc.. (people still want to war) we haven't taken their will to war away so they are a perpetual enemy.
 
Re: American hostages killed

Everyone should be able to roam free anywhere in those open waters without fear. It is sad that vessel owners are prohibited from carrying weapons for defense. There should not be anyone captured. Muchless, put in our over populated prisons. They should be killed on sight, with no quarter, for even attempting to board any vessel. Kill em all and let whoever they pray to sort it out! Pissed off in Alabama, Tommy
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> To me, it seems if you are dumb enough to sail a mulitmillion dollar yacht into dangerous waters, you forfeit your rights to be protected. Call me harsh, but they should have torpedoed that ship, even if the hostages were alive. If we made it known, that we will sink the ships, even with live friendlies on board, it takes away all the pirates barganing power. Best way to neutralize them, take the hostages out of the equation.


It seems odd to me, that we have all these satelites, carriers, subs, and whatever else out there. And yet a bunch of 3rd world pirates, our out manuevering us? REALLY? Is it only me, or am I missing something? </div></div>

1st point: While I sort of agree that they shouldn't have been there and probably knew the risks they were still U.S. citizens that are afforded a certain amount of protection and backing by the U.S. The U.S. has a fundamental obligation to protect citizens lives even if it means going to war to do it. (However, this theory has become corrupted over the years often trading our lives for more paper in some asshole's wallet)

2nd point: I think once you spend some time in the Navy you sort of gain perspective on just how large the oceans really are. I would bet that you could fit every single ship the U.S. has into just a handful of acres. There is simply no way to be everywhere at once. Satellites cover fractions of the Earth and the ones doing the looking are only looking at where they have been tasked to look. We don't have 30 satellites up looking at a few square miles of pirate waters in the off chance they pirate something. Once a pirate does jack a ship you could peek down on it but why? </div></div>

I agree, that we should protect our citizens, here and abroad. Right off I am going to admit, I dont know the statistics of how many US citizens are killed by pirates, as opposed to let go. If the number is more that are killed, and we go ahead and blow up that ship, might that not send a signal to other pirates, and in turn save lives in the future? Honestly I dont know, but would seem to make sense to me. Its obvious what we are doing now, is not working. Logistically speaking, I dont know if we should invade Somalia over this, it could turn into a hornets nest just like Iraq (I do think what we did in Iraq was necesarry). We could get marred down there, unless we just went in, kicked ass and left. I dont know if USA has the stomach for another ground war. Another thing, how many of our soldiers would die?

Second point, very true, you present an angle I hadnt though of. </div></div>

We signed up to fight wars, not hold some asshats hand! That is what soldiers do and then some these days.
Just my opinion.
 
Re: American hostages killed

This works on getting people out of my fishing hole, prolly work just as good on pirates too.

bowgunner.jpg
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ubet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
High Binder said:
ubet said:
</div></div>

We signed up to fight wars, not hold some asshats hand! That is what soldiers do and then some these days.
Just my opinion. </div></div>

Is that a comment meaning our Navy should let what happens happen as far as the pirates go?
 
Re: American hostages killed

There is:

NO STOPPING THEM

http://www.economist.com/node/18061574

Quotes.

"The United Nations estimates the annual cost of piracy in the Indian Ocean at between $5 billion and $7 billion." Quote from story. Tha AO is expanding at a rate of 30% a year.

and

By using bigger and better equipped mother ships, pirates can often stay at sea for more than a month at a time, launching a series of raids. They also use more sophisticated equipment, such a GPS tracking devices and radar, to stalk their prey.

A further problem for the task forces is that the pirates are all too aware of the restrictive rules of engagement that bind most of their foes. If a vessel attached to one of the three main flotillas believes that pirates have hostages under their control, it is under orders not to launch an attack. That is why the recent South Korean rescue was exceptional and controversial. Once pirates have taken a ship, they are usually in a strong position. By keeping the original crews captive aboard the mother ships, the pirates largely safeguard themselves from disruption even when their criminal intent is clear.

"If they are caught in the middle of an attack, the pirates have no hesitation throwing their weapons—typically AK47 machine guns and rocket-propelled-grenade launchers—and their scaling ladders overboard to destroy evidence of their intentions. Even when a ship succeeds in capturing pirates, both sides know that the legal complexity of bringing prosecutions means the prisoners will probably be quickly released. Naval forces have let between 500 and 700 pirates go over the last three years, mostly ensuring they have enough fuel and other supplies to get home and, on more than one occasion, helping with engine repairs. Some pirates have been arrested several times."

According to interviews with pirates in Somalia. Most of the ransom money is spent on prostitutes, weapons and liquor. With the small remaining money wasted foolishly.
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phil1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"The United Nations estimates the annual cost of piracy in the Indian Ocean at between $5 billion and $7 billion."</div></div>

Hm...To be honest, as far as cost is concerned, I am more concerned about the economic impact of shoplifting here in the U.S. The Nation Association For Shoplifting Prevention estimates 13 billion a year is stolen from retailers. Or about $35 million a day. All of which directly impacts the consumers in the U.S. Where as the cost of piracy is spread across many nations.

Now I am not saying I am for pirates. I think they should be put down and dealt with harshly and if need be violently. Yet they are far less a issue to most American's then any other number of problems currently impacting our nation.
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hogstooth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well one of the boarding party got a knife kill on one of the pirates!!

A member of a U.S. special operations force killed one of the pirates with a knife as he went inside of the yacht, said Vice Adm. Mark Fox, commander of U.S. naval forces for Central Command.

I feel a little better than one of ours got to take a knife to one of them, wish it would have been a little sooner!! </div></div>

I was thinking the same exact thing! F*ck those pirates.
 
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I agree all pirates should be executed in a gruesome fashion, however, I have a hard time finding any sympathy for someone who deliberately climbs into the polar bear cage just because the bears ate them.

bearvu.jpg
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pepperbelly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Well, there's always this .

If it were only real.

Jim </div></div>

HAHAHA! I wish! I know what I'd be doing with my 2 weeks of vacation this year.
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patriotoutlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turn Somalia into the modern day Atlantis! </div></div>


Or a big piece of glass
 
Re: American hostages killed

'We' don't need to commit war crimes in order to solve the problem. The real question is why the pirates were trying to make it back to Somali waters. It appears as if they think that Somalia is a safe-haven because no-one is willing to go after them there to bring them to justice. For as long as they think that, whether or not ransoms are being paid, there will be desparate people in Somalia who realize that being a pirate can be a more profitable and more successful business than whatever else they spend their time doing. It has nothing to do with 'pussification' and everything to do with causation.
 
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At what point does someone say "Somalia, you're terrible, we're taking over this shithole". I would think it would benefit every east African nation, maybe they form a coalition.
 
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During our first experience in Somalia - before Mogadishu - P.J. O'Rourke asked a Marine officer what he thought should be done. He replied, "Send in lots of weapons, then seal the borders."

They have lots of weapons. Time to seal the borders.
 
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They should get omebody to offer them lots of AK ammo with a bunch salted with PETN instead of powder, and RPG rounds that detonate when fired. That would discourage them a lot.

It used to be called the "Shanghai Surprise" when VC ammo caches were salted with that stuff, and left in place.

Personally, I am disgusted that 900 multinationals, and around 80 ships and vessels, are held captive there, and that lawyers in Dubai negotiate the ransoms on behalf of the Pirates.
 
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The UN should really do something about this, too bad they are a bunch of pussies.
 
Re: American hostages killed

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: soleus123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The UN should really do something about this, too bad they are a bunch of pussies. </div></div>

The UN is worthless when push comes to shove no matter the field. There's only one thing pirates have understood from the beginning of time.


Then again vessel owner/operators should be up an locked no matter, if it's of the coast of skinny land or in the waters of Lake Michigan off Chicago land. Owners are responsible for the safety of their vessels and it's crew no matter where they travel or who they are.
 
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"The UN couldn't pour piss out of a boot if you printed the instructions on the heel."

- Lyndon Johnson
 
Re: American hostages killed

So that explains the rise in HOA deployments.

I was wondering why so many people get "djibouti" on deployment orders.