AMP vs. EZ-anneal

mkollman74

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    Probably a longshot, but is there anyone with real world experience with these two products? I like the availability of the autofeed for the ez-anneal. I've seen a prototype of an autofeed for the AMP, but don't believe it is in production. Are there other key differences that would make one more desirable?
     
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    diverdon

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    Blowby

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    I can post half of the story since I'm in the same boat. Before I made a decision I had the opportunity to borrow an annealeze for an 80 round batch I needed quick. It took me about 5 min to set up and run some brass going into the scrap bucket anyway. Not a big deal or long process to dial it in. It seemed to hold about 40 or so cases so I had to stack more on top once it dropped to a low level. It took about 5 minutes before I topped it off then another 5-6 minutes to finish.

    For the price I hope someone can post the advantage of the other method for a "typical shooter." I just don't see it from the results I had last week. I shoot targets, steel and plan on maybe 10 (low level) matches this year so I can't see the cost difference. I could be uneducated in the gains that would help me or my brass life. In for the knowledge from the experienced shooters.
     

    Fursniper

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    Based on the two annealers, the main difference appears to be the creators of the AMP system have put in a huge amount of research as to the exact amount of annealing time & temperature that is needed for each cartridge type, type of brass used (hardness, etc). They have done all the groundwork for brass by manufacturer and case size. The annealing times have been preset whereas with the EZ system, it's still up to the user to figure out how long to leave the cartridge exposed to the heat. In my mind if you are going to do that, might as well just continue to use a flame based system that most of us have been using for years as you're still "guessing" as to the proper amount of over or under annealing time and the amount of heat you are doing. With that in mind, I think the AMP system is superior. I have watched it in use (a close friend uses one) and have tried it & it is simply amazing as it turns out perfectly annealed brass with every case regardless of case size or brand. Normally I would be skeptical of the type of claims the creators of the AMP system have put forth (watch their videos) ie, all the underlying research as to brass brand, hardness testing, etc in order to determine the perfect final outcome of the annealing process but after trying it myself with several cartridge types, I'm convinced they got it pretty much right. Whether it was the 338 lapua or 6mm brass, the cases came out perfect every time and exactly the same, ie, consistency which is paramount for round after round of consistent ammo, consistent neck tension, consistent bullet release, consistent spring back and of course, brass life. They've done all the testing on the brass post annealing relative to again, hardness (or softness as the case may be). No guess work which is the part of annealing I have always felt left me with a big question mark in my mind. As far as the single feed system of the AMP, I don't see it as a detractor as its very fast and normally I anneal in small batches anyway. With the AMP system, u could do it while watching TV for that matter. The future to be auto feed system would just be a bonus if one wants to pop for the extra $. Either system is a serious dollar commitment so unless you simply have money to burn a shooter needs to be loading for several precision rifles to make it worthwhile in my mind. If you're annealing now, it certainly would make your life easier. More time shooting & less time in the load room, better brass, better hits on target, oh yeah! Besides, you can't discount the "cool factor", lol!
     

    mkollman74

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    Good thoughts so far, gents. Fursniper, you can never underestimate the cool factor...;) I am admittedly a gear queer, but in this case I think I have a practical reason for exploring these two. They seem to be the best induction units around right now. I do not currently anneal, but the discovery of the induction method was the nudge I needed to jump into the pool. I am currently processing ~4,500 rounds of 7.62, and 1,000 of 6mm. My shop is reasonably well set up for moderate to high volume loading. I do agree that the science behind the AMP is appealing.

    Diverdon, I also noticed the price change, but I did not pick up on the fact that pilots were no longer included. It seems the advantages so far with the EZ-anneal are price and autofeed capability.

    Does anyone have any word on timing/availability and street price of the AMP autofeed?
     

    spife7980

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    If I had 5500 rounds to do of anything I would probably look at the giraud as it has a huge hopper. Plus you can add an annie to it if induction is vital and come out about the same price as the amp or ez. Is it all figured out and preprogrammed? No. But you could get a bunch of other stuff done while its rocking along at a steady pace.
     

    mkollman74

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    Spife,

    I had looked at that as well. The Giraud autofeed looks pretty slick. Is it really all that hard to find the right timing for annealing? Like I said, I've only read up on the topic lately. Is it as easy as purchasing some 750 degree Tempilaq and getting to work? As I've said in several other threads, I am probably the world's laziest handloader...
     
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    GhengisAhn175

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    Let's keep in perspective in the tech:performance ratio.

    To have a control, prs shooters would not be in the results due to the nature of the discipline. Would have to focus on benchrest.

    plenty of records have been broken and amazing groups down range achieved with just a simple RCBS press and a type of torch annealing.

    Its like a Prometheus.. if you got the money and want the latest and greatest go for it.
     

    spife7980

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    I mean if the price is the same I'd rather have the hopper. In my limited experience (like two uses ever so far) with the Annie, yeah, it is that easy to set up. The only negative is the tempilaq leaves a gross film. I don't have the results on paper to back it up, just the initial doing of it earlier this week. I don't have the Giraud, just the Annie and only do 25-50 a week the past year or so.
     
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    BLopina

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    The annealeez is a giraud for half the price.

    For me im not really willing to spend 1000$+ on something that may or may not benefit me on target. Shooting steel at PRS matches I'm sure I won't notice.

    Especially when the COF calls for a handstand
     

    craigos

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    The annealeez is a giraud for half the price.

    For me im not really willing to spend 1000$+ on something that may or may not benefit me on target. Shooting steel at PRS matches I'm sure I won't notice.

    Especially when the COF calls for a handstand
    And a Honda is a Ferrari at tenth of the price ..
     

    diverdon

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    The object is to prolong the life of your brass. Increase in consistancy and accuracy are just a bonus. Yes people were annealing metal long before induction. Induction is just a method thet seems well suited to safe and simple use.

     

    longrange2

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    I bought the EZ Anneal, took it out of the box and was annealing cases within minutes. Easy to set up and works great. I don't see a big advantage either way to the AMP and I don't want to buy pilots either. I don't care about the testing and settings that AMP provides, I know how to set up to properly anneal cases. Do you want to follow blindly some numbers they provide you or set it up yourself and do it right? I understand they are testing different brands and calibers of brass, but I have seen differences even between lot numbers of the same brand and caliber so where does that leave you? You are going to have to adjust anyway. And to say you are no better off using the EZ Anneal vs flame annealer is just ridiculous. With an induction annealer no open flame, no propane bottles, no variations in flame temperature, etc.

    i bought the EZ Anneal without the case feeder because I didn't want to get too far in with expense until I was sure I'd like the unit. All i can say is that it works great and I am ordering the case feeder soon, after I pay off a S&B PMII I just bought.
     

    spife7980

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    Spife, you got it easy just load new brass every time. http://www.milehighshooting.com/lapu...-cases-50-box/

    My guess us that you really want to use your brass more than once thus anealing serves to help you get more life from your brass. But enough quibbling about semantics, do you have anything to add on the AMP vs EZ aneal subject?
    How would factory new non fire formed brass provide the consistency we're after? Neck diamerer alone out of the box is awful, much less the entire cases dimensions. Next, how can I and many others have 25 loadings on brass that has never once been annealed? It's not a requirement to anneal in order to reuse a case. It's not semantics. Each time it gets fired it gets a little bit harder. Annealing will allow me to make it so that it's always the same hardness which is something I couldn't do with the 25x fired cases previously mentioned.

    Do do I have anything to add to the amp vs ez? No. I don't have either and can't offer anything that's hasn't already been said or isn't on their websites but the conversation has also expanded. The OP said he's the worlds laziest handloader. Feeding them one by one would be more effort than a hopper thus my suggestion to open the options up to a Giraud plus Annie. It would be equivalent in cost and the original two options and once set up would allow him to never have to bother with it again. Adding the auto feed to an amp would be an increase in cost and I assume it will be more than just 100 bucks plus you said yourself that the pricing on the amp and accessories is only getting higher. I can do without the lab results as the aren't my results and a little paint will accomplish the goal close enough to be indistinguishable. There isn't a bad option here unless one is of the mid set that all of them would be a bad option. You can't go wrong either way.
     

    mkollman74

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    Not having an auto feed on the AMP really isn't a big deal. I would email Alex and find out pricing and availability on the auto feed

    alex@ampannealing.com
    Did just that... Click the photo for a screenshot of Alex's response. The summary is that they think it may be available in a couple of months and they are thinking it will be about $300.

     

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    kansas

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    The advantage of annealing is consistent seating pressure and bullet release. The advantage of induction annealing, in my opinion, is consistent annealing. Once I find my dwell time it's consistent from batch to batch. The reason I didn't go with gas machine is that I'd have to adjust the dwell time and flame every batch of brass. I use the Annie and am very pleased with the results however I'm sure the other induction annealers are consistent also.
     

    samb300

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    How much brass do you have to process? How big are your batch sizes?

    One of the advantages to the AMP is you can anneal 1 case or 100 and don't have to worry about the flame changing or setting things up and throwing away cases for a new batch or caliber. It takes me ~16 minutes to do 100 cases on the AMP. It will definitely be faster once you get going on the EZ-Anneal (or Giraud or Bench Source), but it can be a pain to dick around with the setup sometimes. I like doing smaller batches more frequently (I like to clean and anneal after each match), so the AMP is good for that. If you want to sit down once a month or a couple times a year and do 500+ cases at a time then I think a flame/hopper annealer might suit you better. You'll just have to stomach tossing out some perfectly good brass when it gets over-annealed trying to dial in your settings! :p
     

    mkollman74

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    So... $300... plus $235 for a rotary case feeder?
    Yeah, that's how I am reading it as well :(. Not sure what the final design of the "system" will look like, or how much space it might take on the bench either. I may just need to wait and see before deciding.
     

    davere

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    The design looks to be very vertical, based on the prototype video. Kind of clunky and weird - maybe the final design will be slicker than the prototype. It has the appearance of being big enough, though, that you'd need a permanent spot on the bench for it.

    I'm watching all of these developments with interest, as I'll be annealing at some point. The AMP is appealing in that it has the appearance of being extremely consistent, but man, it's expensive - I know, I know, this isn't a cheap pastime, blah blah blah. The notion that one setting for a particular brand of brass will be "the one" forever seems a little unrealistic to me, too, since the setting depends upon the brass manufacturer maintaining consistency. I'm kind of guessing I'm going to start at the Annealeez and go from there - the cost of entry isn't terrible on the Annealeez, and if I decide to upgrade in the future, I haven't lost much...
     

    davisag

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    Just sharing a little experience with the Annealeez Unit - when I ordered mine, it was setup for .223 brass. It functioned just fine. The quality of the annealing is really up to the user and how particular you are. The rotation speed is adjustable, and using templaq you can get the temperature fairly well dialed in. The variability I observed was in the propane flame, which translates to variable annealing. This was my first annealing machine adventure and I thought, given the cost, it was quite reasonable, not perfect, but reasonable.

    HOWEVER, when switching the setup to handle different brass, the short comings became very apparent. Based on this, I would suggest asking very detailed questions about this IF you're going to anneal brass of significantly different sizes. The process of re-configuration is has not yet been perfected on this unit, not by me at least.
     

    mikehotel

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    I built a copy of the youtube "Skips annealer" some time ago and it works ...ok. A friend of mine purchase an AMP when they first came of and of course he was more then happy to anneal some brass for me. Long story short... after comparing the differences between the two process, and after much hand wringing, I purchase the AMP unit a couple weeks ago. . Wish I had done it sooner. I can not believe how much more even the neck tension is when seating bullets compared to not annealing and almost annealing with the home made setup.

     
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    Horns8491

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    I've been doing the same research on EZ Anneal vs AMP and wanted to point out a couple of things I've learned.

    First - the AMP auto feeder is expected to come out in the next couple of months with an estimate price of $300. But note that according to AMP you will also need an autofeed hopper like a Dillon. These are around $300 themselves.

    Second - if you buy an AMP, they will test your specific brass and tell you the exact program to anneal that brass. It is free. In fact they encourage users to send them brass for testing and retesting. So if you turn your necks, you will get the exact AMP for your neck thickness.

    I'm leaning towards the AMP because I already happen to have a Dillon hopper, and the precision from the AMP just seems hard to beat. But I'm going to wait to see how their feeder works before pulling the trigger.

     

    nickw

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    Just checking to see if anyone has any first hand experience with the EZ-Anneal they would like to share?
    I just bought one. Set up was very easy. Bought case feeder too. Still working out exact anneal time for Norma 6XC brass. So far seems great. If anyone has anneal time for 6XC please post. I’d like to compare. Txs.
     
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    918v

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    The reason torch flame annealing is associated with broken records is because that’s all that was available at the time.

    AMP is better for two reasons: 1- You can remove the case immediately after annealing and test the temp with a tempilstik. 2- If you wanna pay another $250 for a software upgrade, the AMP will self determine the correct time. I prefer the $20 tempilstik.

    You can’t do that with the other product. Tempilaq does not work as well or as conveniently. Judging the right amount of orange glow is not effective and neither is reloading the case ten times to get back the right amount of hardness.

    The AMP and a 650deg Tempilstik is the simplest, most effective way of annealing brass.
     

    rduckwor

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    Annealeez as well. Couldn't be happier. I have Hornady 6.5CM brass that is 12 + loadings and no split necks and good ES.

    RMD
     

    Tjfarmer

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    Just sharing a little experience with the Annealeez Unit - when I ordered mine, it was setup for .223 brass. It functioned just fine. The quality of the annealing is really up to the user and how particular you are. The rotation speed is adjustable, and using templaq you can get the temperature fairly well dialed in. The variability I observed was in the propane flame, which translates to variable annealing. This was my first annealing machine adventure and I thought, given the cost, it was quite reasonable, not perfect, but reasonable.

    HOWEVER, when switching the setup to handle different brass, the short comings became very apparent. Based on this, I would suggest asking very detailed questions about this IF you're going to anneal brass of significantly different sizes. The process of re-configuration is has not yet been perfected on this unit, not by me at least.
    I upgraded the torch holder which speeded up switching brass size. I see he sells something to upgrade the old ones and believe the new ones come with his new style. I don’t know how well it works because I used something else. Other then that it’s just swaping the wheels. I switch from creedmoor to 338 Lapua every third reload. I don’t think it takes 2-3 min to switch, and that includes getting the tools to do it. I’ve seen guys put a gauged regulator on the gas to discharge it more consistently, I keep my tanks warm and don’t see the need. I did put a $7 volt meter on the variable speed to dial in the right speed faster. I haven’t mounted the display on the case yet, I just got it sitting on top of the main annealeez unit and taped it to it. Not fancy but it works.