Any electricians want to lend me a hand?

[Jigstick]

Need some guidance on a project. If you’re willing to lend some assistance I’d appreciate it. If it ends up too complex for my liking I’ll abort and hire someone.

I want to install a sub panel in my pool house. 100amp. Fed from my main panel. Approximately 130ft run. Buried underground. Already spoke to the inspectors so I have the data on trenching and inspections.

Inspector said I could run direct burial URD wire sized appropriately. But I’ll need “bell reducers” to fit 1/0 cable into the 100amp breaker. Unsure of what exactly I’m looking for.

FWIW I wired my entire basement and cottage. So I’m not a complete fuckstick

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I did my barn.... what can I help you with?

 

[jmp1]

Need some guidance on a project. If you’re willing to lend some assistance I’d appreciate it. If it ends up too complex for my liking I’ll abort and hire someone.

I want to install a sub panel in my pool house. 100amp. Fed from my main panel. Approximately 130ft run. Buried underground. Already spoke to the inspectors so I have the data on trenching and inspections.

Inspector said I could run direct burial URD wire sized appropriately. But I’ll need “bell reducers” to fit 1/0 cable into the 100amp breaker. Unsure of what exactly I’m looking for.

FWIW I wired my entire basement and cottage. So I’m not a complete fuckstick

Lineman....not electrician so there's that ...
You should be able to find a 100 Amp breaker that'll accept 1/0 wire. The bell reducer might be referencing the conduit size being reduced to fit through the wall or the knock out in the bottom of the panel.
Should be a simple project. Pictures of the hot chick's around the pool would help with our evaluation

 

[Geno C.]

You can get a 100amp breaker that accepts 1/0. no reducer needed

 

[Jigstick]

Can someone double check my calculations. Is 1/0 or 2/0 URD thick enough to carry 100amps that distance underground? I need to power a 50amp heat pump. A 20amp water pump. And a final 20amp line just for LED lights / outlets in the shed itself

 

[Maggot]

This is big.

Be sure to call Miss Utility and check for wires, cables, pipes, etc. before you run the trencher. Ask me why I know about that.

 

[hlee]

Miss Utility. There's a beauty pageant no one wants to judge...

 

[n2ishun]

Can someone double check my calculations. Is 1/0 or 2/0 URD thick enough to carry 100amps that distance underground? I need to power a 50amp heat pump. A 20amp water pump. And a final 20amp line just for LED lights / outlets in the shed itself

Is everything rated at 220 ?
I'm betting the water pump is 20 amps at 120v (so that's 10 @ 220) and 40 amps @ 120 runs a helluva lotta lighting.

Yes, if running aluminum my stuff shows 1/0 is right size, if running copper (spendy) I show 1awg.
Remember to use no corrode type grease on every aluminum connection.

Is your main service going to handle another 100 amp connection w/o issues on whatever is currently being run from it ?
I'm not talking about having 2 slots open, I mean is it rated at 300 amps or so ?

 

[DeadAss]

i would install #2 copper in PVC conduit. Not a fan of alum wire. PM me if you have any quistions

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Copper. I wouldn't run aluminum.
You can run one size under for your neutral, that'll save you a tiny bit.
I am bad about overkill though. I ran 2/0 copper for my 200A service, 30ft from the pole....so....

 

[Maggot]

i would install #2 copper in PVC conduit. Not a fan of alum wire. PM me if you have any quistions

Copper if you have any high value electronics anywhere. Aluminum will make thing noisy.

 

[Long Range 338]

URD direct burial cable can be an issue unless sand bedded correctly. If you nick the insulation with a shovel or something and water penetrates into the aluminum it will turn to powder in a matter of a couple weeks. Make certain to either sand bed or run in conduit.
As far as sizing, just run #2, it is good for 100 amps. If you're worried about voltage drop you can upsize but go to a standard size that you are able to find.
Copper is always better but with the current pricing its tough. Even aluminum has taken a sharp upturn and I hear it is becoming increasingly difficult to find.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Copper. I wouldn't run aluminum.
You can run one size under for your neutral, that'll save you a tiny bit.
I am bad about overkill though. I ran 2/0 copper for my 200A service, 30ft from the pole....so....

Yeah, don't use aluminum!

I actually didn't think it was allowed any more? Caused a lot of fires back in the day when electrolytic corrosion on copper/brass contacts made things get, well, sporty.

Copper Romex/equivalent. Not aluminum wires!!!!

Sirhr

 

[Long Range 338]

Yeah, don't use aluminum!

I actually didn't think it was allowed any more? Caused a lot of fires back in the day when electrolytic corrosion on copper/brass contacts made things get, well, sporty.

Copper Romex/equivalent. Not aluminum wires!!!!

Sirhr

He's only referring to the 100 amp sub panel feeder. Aluminum romex went out of style with Jimmy Carter!

 

[DeadAss]

^ but aluminum does make a pretty good beer can

 

[tomcatmv]

^ but aluminum does make a pretty good beer can

And shitty mobile homes.

 

[dustingaunder]

You’ll need SER until you get out of the house. I think if you use 2 copper SER it’s only rated for 90A. Some inspectors will let a 100A breaker slide but the correct size is 90. Then the 1/0-1/0-2 AL URD can run to your pool house, use conduit don’t direct bury. You’ll also need a ground wire run with it. It can be a bare #6 for 100A.

You also need 2 ground rods 6’ apart at the sub panel.

Keep your grounds and neutrals separate in the sub-panel and don’t install the bonding screw. You’ll need additional ground bars that mount to the panel.

 

[Im2bent]

If you use aluminum wire be sure to sleep in the pool as its fireproof

 

[sirhrmechanic]

He's only referring to the 100 amp sub panel feeder. Aluminum romex went out of style with Jimmy Carter!

That’s what I thought… that said Schloss nitrocellulose was wired with that shit . While the peanut farmer was in office, in fact.

Had to strip out every wire.

Sirhr

 

[The D]

How can I be of service?

 

[Maggot]

^ but aluminum does make a pretty good beer can

Only poors drink from cans.

 

[n2ishun]

Guys, y'all do understand the voltage drop of a 130 foot run, right ?
2awg copper is not enough, it needs to be 1awg.
I would use 4awg for ground too.....just because, and it's only a tiny bit more $ than 6.

 

[Long Range 338]

Guys, y'all do understand the voltage drop of a 130 foot run, right ?
2awg copper is not enough, it needs to be 1awg.
I would use 4awg for ground too.....just because, and it's only a tiny bit more $ than 6.

Sure, but what about the load diversity, not to mention we haven't even seen load calcs yet...

 

[DeadAss]

voltage drop should be around 2% based on 100A. #1 would be better but gonna cost more.

 

[n2ishun]

Sure, but what about the load diversity, not to mention we haven't even seen load calcs yet...

That was my first thought, if you'll notice up above.
I doubt he really needs 100a.....but whatev's.

 

[Jigstick]

I’ll update this thread with photos tomorrow. But to answer a few questions:

I have a main panel in my garage which I believe is 200amp. That main panel supplies a sub panel in my basement. Which is rated to 125amps. I’m have two electricians lined up to give me an estimate on upgrading my basement sub panel for more juice. And possibly my main panel if need be.

My plan is to jump from the basement sub panel, under ground 18in, in conduit, with whatever wire you guys recommend. Obviously the aluminum is cheaper right now. Four runs for 1-2awg copper wire at 130ft a piece will be pricy. And I’ll install a 100amp panel in my pool house to run the said equipment.



The pool water pump is 20am 110. The heat pump is 50amp 110.

Does this info help at all?

 

[n2ishun]

That's 70 amps at 120.....or 35 at 240.
You could squeek with a 50 amp to 70 amp sub and leave plenty for lighting.
Less amps = smaller wire = less bucks.

Give exact amp and voltage requirements for everything you plan on running.
Once we have that, it's easy to give wire sizing for the run length.
Find out what size main service this will be pulled from and then let us know what's running from that (currently).
Should be easy peezy to spec it out.

 

[Jigstick]

Will do. I’ll crack open my main panel in my garage and snap a photo. As well as my basement panel and snap a photo.

Not sure I follow about the 240 converting my 110 panels to 240. Or the new pool house panel to 240. How would I run 110 equipment off of 240

 

[n2ishun]

240 is nothing but 2 x 120 lines.

 

[Jigstick]

Here is my main panel in the garage the bottom right 100amp breaker supplies my basement sub panel

 

[Jigstick]

This is the basement sub panel. From this sub panel I need to pull that power up to the pool house.

 

[Im2bent]

You would need to buy equipment that operates at 240v. As n2ishun said you get 240 by using both hot legs of 120v from your sub. They are out of phase to each other so you get 240.

 

[Im2bent]

You see those 2 big ass wires going into your main breaker and coming out of your double pole 100 amp breakers? Each one is 120 so total 240

 

[Jigstick]

So my sub panel has 240v going to it? Well let’s keep it simple…based on those photos does it look like my main panel has enough juice? And sub panel? To carry the power I need up to the pool house?

 

[n2ishun]

Being perfectly honest.
You seriously need a new drop.
You have a fully loaded 200 amp panel with a 100 amp sub already being pulled from it.
Now you want to pull another sub off of a overloaded system ?
It's ALL being fed by aluminum at this point, and not heavy enough to feed what is there....let alone, more.

 

[Im2bent]

Yepper just take your volt meter and put it across those 2 big black wires.

 

[OkieMike]

i would install #2 copper in PVC conduit. Not a fan of alum wire. PM me if you have any quistions

I concur. Especially in a pool house. The chlorine will be hard on aluminum. Especially if a connection gets weak and warms up... It accelerates the corrosion.

Mike

 

[Im2bent]

Being perfectly honest.
You seriously need a new drop.
You have a fully loaded 200 amp panel with a 100 amp sub already being pulled from it.
Now you want to pull another sub off of a overloaded system ?
It's ALL being fed by aluminum at this point, and not heavy enough to feed what is there....let alone, more.

Yeah this is bad wanna know how I know? My home had aluminum wiring. It burned to the ground 2 weeks before Christmas 2004

 

[Jscb1b]

Each of the black wires from the breaker is 110v to the neutral. 220 between them.

 

[Jigstick]

How the fuck did it pass inspection? I built this house in 2008

What is a “new drop”? Atleast I’ll know what to ask the electrician tomorrow

 

[dustingaunder]

2AL SER is only rated for 90A at 75C. Most residential equipment terminals are only rated for 75C so you can’t use the 90C table. Your basement panel should be fed with a 90A breaker. If you want a 125A to the basement panel you need to have that wire replaced with 1/0 or 2/0 AL SER.

 

[OkieMike]

This is the basement sub panel. From this sub panel I need to pull that power up to the pool house.
View attachment 7892546

That's not a bad job. But performing load calculations is what separates electricians from "installers."

I would seriously advise that you call someone to come out. They can do an audit and tell you if your system has the capacity to handle additional load. Might cost a few bucks but it beats burning your house down or damaging your existing system.

Mike

 

[Jigstick]

Is it looking like I need a new main panel? I can’t believe the house would pass inspection with an overloaded main panel. I’ve added nothing to that panel since we’ve built.

Yeah I thought this might be more complicated than I could handle. I have one electrician coming tomorrow. And another one next Wednesday. To look at it all.

I’m comfortable running line from an appropriate source, through the yard, into the pool house. And doing those connections. But I want no part of fucking with that main panel or basement panel.

 

[OkieMike]

Your panel may not be overloaded... That's part of what an audit is about.

You don't run your heat and A/C at the same time... So if your A/C pulls 40 amps and your heat 60 amps... Then you use the 60 amp load when adding up your connected load.

See where I'm going with this?

Mike

 

[dustingaunder]

At a glance your main and sub look ok to me. Without digging out the code book I don’t know if you can feed a 100A sub out of a 100A sub. If the pool hardware is 70A total it’s going to get a continuous rating (125%) so you’re pretty much maxed out on the 100A pool panel and in turn the basement panel too.

 

[n2ishun]

Your panel may not be overloaded... That's part of what an audit is about.

You don't run your heat and A/C at the same time... So if your A/C pulls 40 amps and your heat 60 amps... Then you use the 60 amp load when adding up your connected load.

See where I'm going with this?

Mike

And clothes dryer. (if electric)
And stove. (looks like electric to it, could be dryer circuit)
And microwave.
Etc etc, ad nauseum.

 

[Long Range 338]

Is it looking like I need a new main panel? I can’t believe the house would pass inspection with an overloaded main panel. I’ve added nothing to that panel since we’ve built.

Yeah I thought this might be more complicated than I could handle. I have one electrician coming tomorrow. And another one next Wednesday. To look at it all.

I’m comfortable running line from an appropriate source, through the yard, into the pool house. And doing those connections. But I want no part of fucking with that main panel or basement panel.

Don't let us get you worked up, we are just seeing what we can nitpick over the internet. What meets code and what we would do in our own home can often be two different things (meaning we go above and beyond). You're going to want somebody to help with the pool side of things anyway. Get somebody onsite to help you sort out your existing panel and capacity.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

I’ll update this thread with photos tomorrow. But to answer a few questions:

I have a main panel in my garage which I believe is 200amp. That main panel supplies a sub panel in my basement. Which is rated to 125amps. I’m have two electricians lined up to give me an estimate on upgrading my basement sub panel for more juice. And possibly my main panel if need be.

My plan is to jump from the basement sub panel, under ground 18in, in conduit, with whatever wire you guys recommend. Obviously the aluminum is cheaper right now. Four runs for 1-2awg copper wire at 130ft a piece will be pricy. And I’ll install a 100amp panel in my pool house to run the said equipment.



The pool water pump is 20am 110. The heat pump is 50amp 110.

Does this info help at all?

Sure copper wire is expensive.
You've got a pool house to put power to.....a pool house........
Stop talking like a fucking poor.

 

[jmp1]

Alot of advice here about copper vs aluminum. True it is better but 95% of the service drops coming to your house are aluminum. Unless it's overhead in a coastal area. Oxide inhibitor of some type and forget it. You will triple your conductor cost.

 

[Sparkeytj]

You should talk to an electrician that can check all the loads in person, but fron the pictures it seems your basement sub panel will never use the 100a that feeds it. I would look into downsizing the panel in the pool house to a size the basement sub panel can handle. To do it correctly load calcs need to be done to insure nothing will be overloaded.

You cant rely on your inspector to insure your system isnt overloaded, all he cares about is if it meets code and has the proper overcurrent protection. I believe the inspector was talking about what we call lolypops to reduce the wire size since the lugs in the sub panel probably wont be big enough for the wire