- Thread starter BigPineyTradingPost
- Start date
Well, all the Max fans should be happy, especially with the drama and decision by the FIA at the end.
Does this end all of the “FIA sucks Toto’s dick” BS?
Congrats to Max! Good for him and good for the sport as a whole.
Does this end all of the “FIA sucks Toto’s dick” BS?
Congrats to Max! Good for him and good for the sport as a whole.
They should have released the lapped cars about 2 laps earlier. The end would have been the same.
They gave Luis a free pass at the turn 7 incident in the first lap of the race were he clearly gained an advantage. By the rules he has to let Max by but didn’t and got away with it. In the last lap the race director had to go by the rules or they wouldn’t have got away with it, they can’t do it twice without ending up in Court.
Looks like everyone got very well what they deserve to me.
Looks like everyone got very well what they deserve to me.
Agree 100%. Mercedes got what they deserved IMO. Not only did Crybaby not give the position back, he didn't even slow down. Granted, Max made a lunge but Crybaby had to know that and should have covered. Could Max have held position? Doubtful, but we'll never know because Crybaby didn't even drop the throttle. Right or wrong, stewards stayed out of the fray there.
Listening to the Crybaby. Blaming Checo for unsafe driving. Then Toto whining to Masi about Checo (and was told it was hard racing..which it was). Then the whole worrying about the rules instead of the race when it was full safety car. The "safety car isn't going full speed on straights." Yes, they all gripe about the safety car; but Mercedes always pushing the stewards and Masi with threats (IMO).
Max got what he deserved...the Championship. He drove a still somewhat inferior car to victory more times coming in; had more podiums, and had more laps led. Had the Baku tire incident (no fault of his) not happened this wouldn't have come this far.
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Other thoughts.
I missed the interview with Crybaby pre-race; but from what I heard he wasn't very cordial towards Max. But I admit I didn't see it.
For me, the British GP changed the game...considerably. Toto can blow his stack all he wants complaining Max cut us off in turn X, turn Y, turn Z, etc, etc. NONE of those turns were super dangerous and super high speed. NONE. To try that shit like Crybaby did at Copse, going on the inside with no chance of slowing down and making apex/track-out, and then add the aero-wash of Max's car was NOT becoming of a 7X world champion IMO (it screamed desperation). Don't forget that cost millions of dollars of development for RBR per the cost ceiling - they wrote the car off. I could also argue that Max could have lifted off there and/or not shut the door? WHY the F would he do that? He had the line, he had the position!! At that point this battle got very personal. From Max's recount of the conversation with Crybaby after that (when supposedly a very quick conversation happened when Max was out of hospital), Louis wasn't very concerned and still cast blame on Max.
Was it in Mexico that Crybaby looked like he was gunning for Max's right rear tire? It was a left handed turn, so I'm pretty sure that was it. Again, just enough to tap Max and put him off. Same shit he did at Imola and paid for it when Max's car got the sausage kerb treatment. Yes, it was aggressive by Max, but again, very low speed turn compared to Copse.
Notice not even Sainz sprayed down Crybaby, didn't so much as look that way. The only thing that encouraged me there was Crybaby's father seemed genuine at hugging and shaking hands with the Verstappens.
Should they have let cars go by 1-2 laps sooner, sure, I would have agreed that's what they should have done. However, the result would be same. But, they cleared the lapped cars away that were going to matter and that's that. Sure, one may cry foul - I would if I were a Crybaby fan. However, as Masi screamed back at Toto...it's called motor racing!!!!!! Mercedes COULD have pulled Hamilton in too; then Red Bull would have left Max out. In that case, Max would have been hunted down and passed with ease. That's why it's a team sport and strategy is a massive player. I thought it was over, my GF said...it's not over till it's over...believe. She was right. Best part was the mind game Max was playing at the restart - no more than 2 feet between the sides of cars. Brilliant. Got back at the BS where Crybaby was more than 10 car lengths behind for the standing start restarts last week.
Would I feel short changed if it was in reverse - I'll admit I would. Except for me, Mercedes has been beyond dirty this year and that comes directly from Toto. Toto can still suck donkey!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's hope in 2022 the two of these can get along. Both drivers are ahead of the pack, but I think once George goes to Mercedes, we'll the real Louis. I will say that for Louis to have built a team around him, maintain that since 2014 is staggering and he has my respect for that. But, as a driver, since puffter Nico beat him, it's been nothing but cry cry cry. He wasn't nearly that bad at McClaren.
Driver of the day: Checo!!!!!
ok, enjoy the off season folks. Should be interesting with a completely new chassis/aero formula. So long as it's not Indy-car like we're good. They ruined Indy car. Will be interesting to see how RBR handles those rebranded Hondas (who I bet wish they didn't pull out).
I like how max pulled up next to lewis under the safety car letting him see the red soft tires.
It’s nice seeing the championship literally decided by the last lap of the last race.
Good stuff!
It’s nice seeing the championship literally decided by the last lap of the last race.
Good stuff!
On that first lap I was quite displeased and thought "well, the fix is in for Hamilton". I couldn't believe the stewards ruled no investigation necessary. Karma is a bitch and I am happy to see Max take his first championship. 10 laps to go and it was Hamilitons race until the safety car. I am wondering how much Hamilton was bitching about being left out on old tires when he could have pitted.
I was a little disappointed to see Kimi's career end so quietly with no fanfare. I didn't expect him to score points, but thought F1 would have had some kind of look back and review of his career after the race. Maybe a gold watch and a kick in the ass on the way out the door.
Sigh. Now the long wait until the start of next season. I will be very, very curious to see if the rule changes, especially the turbulent air behind the cars being reduced have any real effect on the constructor standings. Merc always seemed to struggle more if not in clean air so this may just end up helping them become even more dominant. Has anyone heard about the ICE system for Redbull? With Honda withdrawing I wasn't sure if RB were using a new platform or licensing the existing honda tech for their cars for 22.
I was a little disappointed to see Kimi's career end so quietly with no fanfare. I didn't expect him to score points, but thought F1 would have had some kind of look back and review of his career after the race. Maybe a gold watch and a kick in the ass on the way out the door.
Sigh. Now the long wait until the start of next season. I will be very, very curious to see if the rule changes, especially the turbulent air behind the cars being reduced have any real effect on the constructor standings. Merc always seemed to struggle more if not in clean air so this may just end up helping them become even more dominant. Has anyone heard about the ICE system for Redbull? With Honda withdrawing I wasn't sure if RB were using a new platform or licensing the existing honda tech for their cars for 22.
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1) Mercedes now has to go full appeal I think; but yes, Karma is a bitch. I'd forgotten about the Hungary incident in detail where Bitchass (hopefully to return to Bottas with Alfa) slammed into Lando and took out both RBR's in the process (except they got Max's car running again albeit badly damaged).
2) Shocked online to see how many defenders of Mercedes there are. Yes, it was a bit strange to let the lapped cars between the two protagonists by and absolutely Max was playing head games with Crybaby on the restart and I agree he was actually in front for a split second before safety car pulled off (which is legal).
3) Yes, Merc (more last few years) has always been designed to go best when in front.
4) Honda engines were bought, under license, by RBR. My understanding (and it's just my understanding) is RBR now owns the engine and is free to develop it how they see fit. Most of the engine work was already done in UK so it's not like it's all coming from Japan. Also, IIRC, RBR managed to pull a coup and hire the main engine guy from Mercedes.
5) Your concern that Mercedes may be more dominant is not too far off the mark. No doubt Hamilton/Russell will be formidable and if they cannot get more speed out of Checo on a consistent basis, he's going to have to go to AT and Gasly back to RBR. I love what Checo did; but he's not happy with the car because I guess it truly is Max's car and set up by Adrian Newey for Max. Who knows...that stuff is very well guarded and complex.
6) My guess is racing will not be nearly as competitive as they think with the new rules.
I think Russell will show that it was the car and not Hamilton that made them so dominant over the last few years. Bottas is a decent driver, but when Russell was driving the Merc he showed serious skill. the combo of Hamilton/Russell will be very, very dominant next year. RB will have to get the teammate into play to help Max combat that.
I too agree that Checo needs to step it up or he will be swapped for another driver. I loved seeing him hold up Hamilton long enough to get Max back within striking range. Driver of the day for sure. I wasn't expecting him to tangle with Hamilton for as long as he did. He definitely put it all out there on those late lunges and the battle with Hamilton. I'm not sure if RB can pull any driver close to the caliber of Max. That kid has serious talent and it sucked to watch him take this long to earn his first championship.
It will be curious to see if Ferrari can step it up and challenge the top two next year. They have the drivers, and the car is developing nicely. They showed spurts of performance and speed this year, but it was far to inconsistent.
I too agree that Checo needs to step it up or he will be swapped for another driver. I loved seeing him hold up Hamilton long enough to get Max back within striking range. Driver of the day for sure. I wasn't expecting him to tangle with Hamilton for as long as he did. He definitely put it all out there on those late lunges and the battle with Hamilton. I'm not sure if RB can pull any driver close to the caliber of Max. That kid has serious talent and it sucked to watch him take this long to earn his first championship.
It will be curious to see if Ferrari can step it up and challenge the top two next year. They have the drivers, and the car is developing nicely. They showed spurts of performance and speed this year, but it was far to inconsistent.
Yes, it's ashamed RBR didn't give Max a competitive car till now. Had he had the Merc, even against Crybaby he's already 3-4x world champ.
I would agree if those talented driver performed the same every race, but that's not the case. Many of those talented drivers have the same car every race and just can't perform consistently like the guys at the top. Not saying they should be at the top, but they should be consistent at where they are. Just to be funny, at least Haas drivers are consistent
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Hey now, "There is always next year." besides, Haas threw in the towel early on to focus on the FY22 build
I had given hope for Max and was walking out to get some things done and the wife started yelling about the crash. Damned great finish!!
Ohh yeah, Fuck Hamilton!!
Ohh yeah, Fuck Hamilton!!
I kept being told by my GF it's not over...it's not over. I kept replying..."It's over." Then Checo did great....then "it's over again." Followed by "never give up hope" and "Karma...karma is a bitch." Then that crash. to which I was like...hmmm, to pit or not. THat would have been very interesting with Max on newer hard tires; but I think in that scenario Crybaby would have won. I also think Max would have easily disposed of the back markers on those soft tires. May have gone down to final two turns; but he would have won.
For me, though I dislike Hamilton immensely; I absolutely abhor Toto Wolf. Pompous, quick to anger and accusation, and from what I can tell a genuine asshole.
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A great end to a good season, who doesn’t love some controversy?! Max exploited an opportunity and won, that’s racing. Toto sounding like a bitch on the net “no no no Mikey….” Haha that has me laughing.
Maybe Mick battling Latifi was planned and the crash prevented the 8th championship?
Mercedes has won the constructors championship 8 years in a row now. I look forward to the new 2022 cars and I hope it’s a lot more competitive. Its about time Ferrari takes their rightful spot on top, followed by McLaren then Aston Martin.
Maybe Mick battling Latifi was planned and the crash prevented the 8th championship?
Mercedes has won the constructors championship 8 years in a row now. I look forward to the new 2022 cars and I hope it’s a lot more competitive. Its about time Ferrari takes their rightful spot on top, followed by McLaren then Aston Martin.
When Max pitted and got the tires he was making up about a second a lap and I thought that he was going to make it an interesting finish. I figured that the tires on Hamilton's car would be toast at the end and then Max stopped making up the time needed and figured it was over. Ahhh fuck it!
I was kinda bummed about Kimi going out the way he did already and figured I better get on the with the stuff that needed doing. No way was I going to watch the cry baby gloat. Then the wife started yelling big crash!!
I was kinda bummed about Kimi going out the way he did already and figured I better get on the with the stuff that needed doing. No way was I going to watch the cry baby gloat. Then the wife started yelling big crash!!
Best finish of the year
The irony is that Toto owns (or did) part of Williams. Hahahah..Karma baby.A great end to a good season, who doesn’t love some controversy?! Max exploited an opportunity and won, that’s racing. Toto sounding like a bitch on the net “no no no Mikey….” Haha that has me laughing.
Maybe Mick battling Latifi was planned and the crash prevented the 8th championship?
Mercedes has won the constructors championship 8 years in a row now. I look forward to the new 2022 cars and I hope it’s a lot more competitive. Its about time Ferrari takes their rightful spot on top, followed by McLaren then Aston Martin.
I'm perfectly happy where Ferrari and McLaren stand now. I was so sick of Ferrari in the "oughts" I stopped watching F-1 for 5-6 years. There is no Aston Martin IMO...just Lance Stroll's dad trying to build something for his boy.
I just seem to recall it being more entertaining when there was more than just one or two teams in with a chance of a win.
Looking back at historical results, however, it seems there has always been periods of dominance by one team or another.
So I guess I'm just racist. Then again, I disliked Shui.
Looking back at historical results, however, it seems there has always been periods of dominance by one team or another.
So I guess I'm just racist. Then again, I disliked Shui.
I couldn't stand Schumacher either. Nor Senna as I was and always will be a Prost fan. Interesting thing on Prost on the F-1 channel (formula1.com) talking about championships and he acknowledge he was close to being 7x WDC. Though, I must say even though it's a different era, I think I'm starting to like Max better. I like the aggressive driving now toned down and smart - he seems to have the perfect combo of Senna + Prost. He's aggressive like Senna and as smooth if not more-so than Prost. I have to admit, I think I underappreciate Alonso though.
And yes, you're correct, back in the day there were 2-3 teams right there, yet always a dominant one. McLaren, Williams, Ferrari (that one year Prost was with them in 1990 where "he done good" and I'll forget about '91). So it will be interesting to see where this "150 million cap" leads us. I think that's the right number. My guess is Ferrari fights Red Bull for 2nd, Mercedes first, and McLaren 4. 2,3,4 will be very tight.
Your right. If Aston Martin are serious and they seem to be with all of the investing and picking up people from other teams - they need to get Lance out of that seat. He will not take them to the next level. But yeah, daddy has the money and daddy’s boy will drive.
It is unfortunate. I often wonder how many genuinely talented drivers get passed up for those that have financial backing? It’s been going on for a looooong time.
Funny thing. I frequent another webpage on sailing. They are liberal enough that i often have to shut down the computer and look away. Still, they tolerate this child of the solid south.
They are all going ballistic over the finish of the race where Hamilton was not guaranteed his victory. Some even claim to like Max but think hamilton was robbed. Quite the difference here. Peoples point of view are so different.
My opinion about next year‘s price cap. Its not the money, its the cars, too dependent on performance enhancements that make them uncompetitive with each other. Simplify the cars, in both aero and power plant. The costs will come way down the the racing will go way up. Again, my opinion, your mileage may vary.
They are all going ballistic over the finish of the race where Hamilton was not guaranteed his victory. Some even claim to like Max but think hamilton was robbed. Quite the difference here. Peoples point of view are so different.
My opinion about next year‘s price cap. Its not the money, its the cars, too dependent on performance enhancements that make them uncompetitive with each other. Simplify the cars, in both aero and power plant. The costs will come way down the the racing will go way up. Again, my opinion, your mileage may vary.
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Another place, another time, dangerous beyond belief, yet the men were gentleman and parhaps a class that was never better
I'll bite. From right to left. Stirling Moss, Graham Hill and Jim Clark? I wasn't really sure on Clark as John Surtees was another gentleman, but I believe he had lighter hair and less of it.
You win the prize though I did intend for it to be a contest. This was borrowed from Jim Clarks page.
I can see where Merc and Hamilton are coming from. The FIA race stewards have fucked up the rules on almost every race so why should this one be different. They wanted to end the season racing and not under a yellow flag, I get that, buy they violated their own rules.
In the first lap, turn 7, Max should have been given the position and Hamilton did gain an advantage by cutting the track. Red Bull with nothing to lose kept pitting on VSC/ yellow flag and getting new tires. Mercedes decided not to so they would not lose position. This allowed Max to burn through tires. You could see Merc and Hamilton getting upset as Max was able to get up to Hamilton under the VSC. I couldn't help myself and I laughed when Toto said, Noooo, noooo, noooo, Michael this isn't fair!
All of the lapped cars needed to be let through and the safety car under normal conditions would have stay out one more lap. However, we didn't have normal conditions. We had a race for the championship and they wanted to end racing.
That said the FIA rejected Mercs protest. Congratulations to Max and hopefully he wins next year by a bigger margin.
You, sir, are in lockstep with my own thoughts. I was a HUGE Prost fan, and never liked Senna or Schumacher. Yes, I acknowledge their talent, but just never liked their "style". Prost was one of those drivers who personafied the "slow is smooth - smooth is fast" mantra. He never looked like he was going very fast. Always smooth and in total control. But he obviously WAS fast, as his race wins and championships prove. He wasn't perfect, but he was close to it!
Back in that era, there were several seasons where two, three, or even four drivers had a shot at the title right up till the last race. I long for the return of that situation. It's great fun to have the title come down to the last race, and each year I hope for that to occur. This year it did! Very exciting stuff.
As for the race, there were a few "what ifs" that would have changed everything. The first being, what if Max got a good start and was leading the first lap. That mess with Hammie wouldn't have happened and there would have been no controversy at that point. I think Hammie would have ultimately took the lead as Max's soft tires gave up, but it would have been a different race. Second, what if Hammie would have took fresh tires during the first VSC period. It sounded like he wanted to, but the team decided against it. Had they done it, it would have changed the track position and changed the race.
The last and biggest "what if" is, what if they'd have thrown the red flag right away when Latifi crashed. All the cars would have been able to change tires (a rule I don't agree with, but it is what it is) so Hammie and Max would have both been on fresh tires. And in the process of coming back to racing they would have been able to properly sort the backmarkers, avoiding the last bit of controversy and giving us a proper race with several laps to go and all things being mostly equal. In this situation I think Max very well would have still won, but it would have been a much "cleaner" win, without all the hand-wringing and shouting.
Anyway, it is what it is, and I'm happy Max won. I really hope the scales start to tip back to a more even field next year, with maybe 4 or 5 drivers in with a shout to win races, and the title, over the course of the year. Hopefully the new cars will help in that regard, George will give Hammie some run for his money within the team, McLaren and Ferrari will continue to improve so that they can become a more regular threat. That's a lot to ask for, but hey, I can dream, can't I??
LOL. I couldn't have said it better myself sir!!!! I mean, it really came down to strategy and in this case, being behind actually helped. Yes, he could have taken the tires at VSC. He also was slowed down enough by Checo to not have enough time to pit during real safety car. So, strategically they lost by playing not to lose. It was a fantastic season. I think I missed only one race due to travel and my forgetting to record.
What it really comes down to is budget, like all things.
Back then there wasn’t a budget, and the rules allowed different engine configurations etc.
They are trying to curb costs which I understand, but once you institute a budget AND testing limits there is no innovation.
There are efficiency gains, and they are monumental but with tighter rules it becomes a parade.
Additionally the safety of the cars today allow drivers to take chances that 30 years ago could put them in the hospital.
When there is “no fear”, the personality and raw skill of a driver is subdued.
Max loves senna and try’s to drive in his style which is why he crashed out so often.
He learned that crashing limits points where senna learned I may be injured or dead. That difference makes pushing the limits and race strat very different.
Back then there wasn’t a budget, and the rules allowed different engine configurations etc.
They are trying to curb costs which I understand, but once you institute a budget AND testing limits there is no innovation.
There are efficiency gains, and they are monumental but with tighter rules it becomes a parade.
Additionally the safety of the cars today allow drivers to take chances that 30 years ago could put them in the hospital.
When there is “no fear”, the personality and raw skill of a driver is subdued.
Max loves senna and try’s to drive in his style which is why he crashed out so often.
He learned that crashing limits points where senna learned I may be injured or dead. That difference makes pushing the limits and race strat very different.
Okay, since Mercedes finally decided to drop their appeal of the ruling in their protest, I wanted to comment on the ending to the race and get your thoughts. I know I’m in the minority here as I’m not a huge Verstappen fan. I don’t have anything against him, per se, but I do think he is sometimes needlessly aggressive on track and potentially dangerous. Sometimes he is in the right and sometimes I think he should yield and “live to fight another day”. That being said, I am not a race car driver of any kind and some of his moves may be perfectly legit…..these are just the musings of an amateur F1 fan.
1. Horner and Wolff (or anyone for a race team for that matter) having direct contact with the Race Director (RD) during the last 10 or so laps of a race is BS. If you want to bring something up on lap 25, I get it, but at the end of the race IF things are heating up, leave the man alone. F1 should, and likely will, put an end to that. The RD has his hands full and he doesn’t need the distraction.
2. The flip-flop by the RD on “lapped cars are staying in position until the restart”, then “okay, we will only let the back markers between Hamilton and Verstappen thru to unlap themselves” is utter BS. This literally flip-flopped the race and gave the win to the P2 car. Had Latifi not crashed, Hamilton would have cruised to a victory. Verstappen little to no chance Before the crash. The crash gave Verstappen an opportunity to pit for fresh soft tires (as most Safety cars do). The pit stop couldn’t “hurt” him, so why not try for it? I would have done the same thing, as would Hamilton if he were in Verstappen’s position. Had the RD stood by his first decision of NOT letting the lapped cars through, Hamilton would have likely won. If the RD had stuck to his initial position, the lapped cars would have received blue flags immediately on the restart and Verstappen would have breezed past them, however Hamilton LIKELY would have been too far ahead after the restart, and the blue flag passing, for Verstappen to overtake him. This would have been the EXACT same result as if the crash would have never happened. Clearing that traffic gave Verstappen an overwhelming advantage that: A) gave him fresh, sticky tires to mount a challenge and B) put him right on Hamilton’s rear wing for the restart. I’m not saying the RD made the wrong call, I’m just saying that he should have never had to make that call…..there should be some kind of rule that addresses a similar/identical situation…..so that neither driver is given an advantage over the other.
3. I hope that this race result causes F1 to overhaul their rules regarding such an instance. I wonder if the best solution wouldn’t be to “Red Flag” the race, have everyone return to the pit lane and do a restart with 5 laps to go or whatever. This way, no cars get and unfair advantage, everyone gets fresh tires, everyone gets a restart, AND you can move the lapped cars around as they queue for the pit lane to get them out of the leaders’ way.
I will always view this race/championship with an asterisk. I get why people don’t like Hamilton. His antics can be irritating, to say the least. Everyone (except for Hamilton fans) gets tired of the same old person winning every year. However, that doesn’t mean he isn’t deserving if he wins. Verstappen (or whoever other than Hamilton) winning a world championship is good for the sport…..no doubt about it. We want to see competition. We had a great battle this year and I think it was good for F1. The problem was, the ending was not just and has a cloud over it (at least in my opinion). I know there are arguments on Both sides about the rules being applied correctly or not being applied correctly, but there should be no doubt that the outcome of the race was altered by the RD’s decision…..and I don’t perceive that as fair.
Ask yourself this, and be honest to yourself: would you happily accept Hamilton winning the championship if Verstappen was leading (on old hard tires) and Hamilton got the free pitstop, fresh soft tires, all traffic moved out of the way between him and Verstappen, and a restart with 1 lap to go? I have a feeling I know the answer to that.
I’m all for them racing. I’m all for them duking it out and that the best man/team/car wins. What I don’t like is a decision being made by a race director that decides the winner of any race, but especially the world championship.
Seems like a new “red flag” rule, similar to what I listed above, to equalize the playing field would be the only ”fair” (if that’s the best word to use) way to have an honest race.
I’d love to hear your guys’ thoughts as well. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would assume that most people would want a given race, and especially the championship to be as fair as possible.
1. Horner and Wolff (or anyone for a race team for that matter) having direct contact with the Race Director (RD) during the last 10 or so laps of a race is BS. If you want to bring something up on lap 25, I get it, but at the end of the race IF things are heating up, leave the man alone. F1 should, and likely will, put an end to that. The RD has his hands full and he doesn’t need the distraction.
2. The flip-flop by the RD on “lapped cars are staying in position until the restart”, then “okay, we will only let the back markers between Hamilton and Verstappen thru to unlap themselves” is utter BS. This literally flip-flopped the race and gave the win to the P2 car. Had Latifi not crashed, Hamilton would have cruised to a victory. Verstappen little to no chance Before the crash. The crash gave Verstappen an opportunity to pit for fresh soft tires (as most Safety cars do). The pit stop couldn’t “hurt” him, so why not try for it? I would have done the same thing, as would Hamilton if he were in Verstappen’s position. Had the RD stood by his first decision of NOT letting the lapped cars through, Hamilton would have likely won. If the RD had stuck to his initial position, the lapped cars would have received blue flags immediately on the restart and Verstappen would have breezed past them, however Hamilton LIKELY would have been too far ahead after the restart, and the blue flag passing, for Verstappen to overtake him. This would have been the EXACT same result as if the crash would have never happened. Clearing that traffic gave Verstappen an overwhelming advantage that: A) gave him fresh, sticky tires to mount a challenge and B) put him right on Hamilton’s rear wing for the restart. I’m not saying the RD made the wrong call, I’m just saying that he should have never had to make that call…..there should be some kind of rule that addresses a similar/identical situation…..so that neither driver is given an advantage over the other.
3. I hope that this race result causes F1 to overhaul their rules regarding such an instance. I wonder if the best solution wouldn’t be to “Red Flag” the race, have everyone return to the pit lane and do a restart with 5 laps to go or whatever. This way, no cars get and unfair advantage, everyone gets fresh tires, everyone gets a restart, AND you can move the lapped cars around as they queue for the pit lane to get them out of the leaders’ way.
I will always view this race/championship with an asterisk. I get why people don’t like Hamilton. His antics can be irritating, to say the least. Everyone (except for Hamilton fans) gets tired of the same old person winning every year. However, that doesn’t mean he isn’t deserving if he wins. Verstappen (or whoever other than Hamilton) winning a world championship is good for the sport…..no doubt about it. We want to see competition. We had a great battle this year and I think it was good for F1. The problem was, the ending was not just and has a cloud over it (at least in my opinion). I know there are arguments on Both sides about the rules being applied correctly or not being applied correctly, but there should be no doubt that the outcome of the race was altered by the RD’s decision…..and I don’t perceive that as fair.
Ask yourself this, and be honest to yourself: would you happily accept Hamilton winning the championship if Verstappen was leading (on old hard tires) and Hamilton got the free pitstop, fresh soft tires, all traffic moved out of the way between him and Verstappen, and a restart with 1 lap to go? I have a feeling I know the answer to that.
I’m all for them racing. I’m all for them duking it out and that the best man/team/car wins. What I don’t like is a decision being made by a race director that decides the winner of any race, but especially the world championship.
Seems like a new “red flag” rule, similar to what I listed above, to equalize the playing field would be the only ”fair” (if that’s the best word to use) way to have an honest race.
I’d love to hear your guys’ thoughts as well. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would assume that most people would want a given race, and especially the championship to be as fair as possible.
A new rule requiring a red flag restart for any Safety car if 5 or less laps remain in a race may be beneficial. Do you then extend that to a virtual safety car? I do agree that principals should not be communicating directly to the RD.
The biggest rub of 2021 was that rules were not consistently enforced. If they can't all be held to the same standard then why have them?
There were multiple occurrences of rules being interpreted one way for Hamilton and anther way for Verstappen throughout the season. Most of the time in favor of Hamilton. How does that get addressed? At the end of the race the rules were interpreted in favor of Verstappen, but it was at the most critical time with the championship on the line. It can be argued that if the rules were enforced throughout the season fairly that Hamilton would not have been neck and neck in points with Verstappen going into the final race and likely even a P1 finish would have been insufficient to claim the championship as long as Verstappen placed P2 or P3.
The biggest rub of 2021 was that rules were not consistently enforced. If they can't all be held to the same standard then why have them?
There were multiple occurrences of rules being interpreted one way for Hamilton and anther way for Verstappen throughout the season. Most of the time in favor of Hamilton. How does that get addressed? At the end of the race the rules were interpreted in favor of Verstappen, but it was at the most critical time with the championship on the line. It can be argued that if the rules were enforced throughout the season fairly that Hamilton would not have been neck and neck in points with Verstappen going into the final race and likely even a P1 finish would have been insufficient to claim the championship as long as Verstappen placed P2 or P3.
then that gets into the "what all can you fix" shit show that we had too. Actually, I think it's ok to do that. Nothing's preventing the other teams from changing tires, fixing damage; but they always pick on one or two teams for doing that.
Very true. Changing tires and swapping wings morphs into a gray area of repairs very quickly depending on how long the red flag is out for. Hell, we saw the complaints about brake coolers being placed on the track surface and drying out the conditions to create unfair advantage two years ago to start a race. Was Riccardo's car and no action was taken iirc.
I'll go back to what I've said previously. But, Mercedes had every single opportunity to pit that Max had. There is always a chance at a crash. Personally, I think Max could have still won with the new tires passing the back markers. It'd have gone to the very last turn though. Also, had RBR not pitted and they cleared those cars out of the way, Max most likely could have then passed Hamilton or they may have touched and crashed out....either way Max wins. Max was playing to win when he was right along Hamilton on the restart...just as he'd have been on the newer than Hamilton hard tires. The only scenario I see that Max doesn't win is that they don't clear out the cars and he's on the newer hard tires he had previous to the pit stop.
As far as Max driving dangerously. I call bollocks on that. I cannot think of a single high speed turn where he punted Hamilton. Exception may be the brake test at Saudi; but even there Hamilton KNEW exactly why he was slowing down and didn't want to pass the DRS zone before Max. I think Max actually thought he was going around him and hammered the brakes to keep out of DRS before Hamilton. I'll blame mostly this bullshit of calling the race director and all and not getting the information passed. But Mercedes has been the one on the horn the most and demanding position restored within one or two turns.
The Monza incident while one could argue was Max's fault (I won't because Hamilton pushed him wide) but that kerb almost flipped the Red Bull - racing incident there). The dangerous driver without question is Louis Hamilton. PERIOD. I've given two examples and I'll give it again. Max was CLEARLY ahead at Copse and Hamilton, if he's truly as good as everybody says, would have known there was no way in hell to turn in where he did (he was inside and had to pinch the turn) all whilst being in aero-wash. But he pushed Max off at 180mph+. THAT was dangerous.
Also, I believe it was Mexico where Hamilton literally aimed for Max's right rear tire going into turn 1 at the start.
Did Max ever push Hamiton into a wall like Senna did Prost? Nope.
Is Max aggressive...Hell yes, leave that door open like Hamilton did at turn 7 at Abu Dhabi and Max is going in. Is he dangerous? Not in my opinion. I'll also harken back to 2019 to young Charles LeClerq driving like a madman...knocking Max out once and I believe Seb once or twice for being way too aggressive.
But I agree, this BS of calling RD and complaining all the time and threatening the stewards (more or less) has got to stop. I like the idea of red flagging if only 5 laps to go. Or maybe we need to say there will be 5 laps of racing at start of a bad crash which would normally bring out safety car. Regardless, a more concise solution must be found.
Audi Is Very Close To Joining Formula 1 And We Can't Wait
There has been loads of talk surrounding the possibility that Audi (and indeed Porsche) could soon join the greatest motorsport spectacle on the planet: Formula 1. This possibility only exists because of rule changes in the sport that could suit the two German automakers, and with the future of...
carbuzz.com Interesting. I like it.
Those were truly the days! Love those old cars. My favorite was Dan Gurney's Eagle. What a beautiful car. Then they started adding wings, and it all went downhill from there.
Well, this thread will die down and be quiet until next season. Here is to hoping RB comes out strong and sticks it to Mercedes. Hell, even having a third constructor in a close race for the constructors cup would be a great improvement. I will be very interested to see how well Russell does driving in the Mercedes and to see if Norris keeps improving at Mclaren.
Me too!!!
I watched on formula1.com the secret Santa and I either missed it or Crybaby did not participate which wouldn't shock me.
As for Audi, rumors of VW have been rampant for a while. There was talk of VAG building the ICE for RBR; but that stopped when Honda pulled out and RBR took engines on themselves...for now.
I agree. A close, competitive season would be very welcome. Hope Russell gives Hammie a run for his money, and hope both Red Bulls are right in there. And if McLaren could keep stepping up, it could be really interesting!
I bet Russell will be closer to Hamilton than Bottas was this last year. The kid has talent, he was just hamstrung with the Williams car.
My thoughts..
I note how any "punishment" for crybaby boycotting the awards has been quietly brushed aside.
I have to believe Russel will beat HAM at his own game, if he's truly given an equal footing. MSC was truly great but he would not have his record without that car during that period, or if another great driver was given the 2nd seat.
New cars are ugly but we'll get used to them.
I don't hold out much hope for regulation changes helping the "racing". The current system of throwing all the money at the top performing teams means they will stay the top performing teams.
I note how any "punishment" for crybaby boycotting the awards has been quietly brushed aside.
I have to believe Russel will beat HAM at his own game, if he's truly given an equal footing. MSC was truly great but he would not have his record without that car during that period, or if another great driver was given the 2nd seat.
New cars are ugly but we'll get used to them.
I don't hold out much hope for regulation changes helping the "racing". The current system of throwing all the money at the top performing teams means they will stay the top performing teams.
beg to differ on MSC
separating his driving skills he was one of the best development drivers ever
every car he drove got better every year, the cars performance never took a step back
that is something that many drivers lack, Hamilton has that skill as well..vettel doesnt which is why after newey left vettel is mid pack at best
Agreed, MSC was an incredible talent. Geez…look what he did in a pos Jordan for his first race as an F1 driver. Had the clutch not failed who knows how he would’ve faired in that race.
I think he worked harder than any other driver of his era. He had an incredible ability to communicate to the engineers what the car was doing and what he wanted it to do.
What an irony. We are late observing the holidays with our son due to both of us suffering from a Metavirus. So, getting to our son’s home yesterday, this morning the first thing Brenda wants to watch is the Special on Michael Schumacher. Today is December 29th.
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