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ARC Archimedes sear engagement
- Thread starter ddavis
- Start date
I got this email 2 days ago ...
Dear American Rifle Company customer:
You are receiving this message because the Archimedes action that you have just received from us or will receive very soon has a minor problem that we must remedy. If you have not received your action yet but have paid for it in full, shipping will be delayed by about five to seven business days while we correct the problem.
So what’s wrong.
The bolt shroud locking pin is not disengaging the bolt body making it difficult to close the bolt. This is because the bolt body is missing a helical relief cut. See Figure 1. The Archimedes prototypes did not require this cut because they did not have closing cams machined into the forward end of the receiver. Since prototyping, we decided to incorporate 0.050” of forward camming to aid in closing the bolt over tight or slightly oversized brass. Unfortunately, we failed to include the helical relief cut that enables the bolt shroud to disengage the bolt before bolt rotation begins. The action will work without the relief cut but the effort required to make it work depends on the relationship between the cocking piece and the trigger assembly. A relationship that does not cock on close might seem to work fine but one that does cock on close will require a forceful push forward to close the bolt.
The fix is very straight forward, but it does require you to send your bolt to us so that we can replace it with one that has the relief cut. We will email a shipping label to you making the return process as painless as we can. You can also simply remove the bolt should locking pin and its spring, but we don’t recommend this because do so will allow the bolt should to easily rotate when the bolt is retracted. We really want you to send your bolt back to us so we can take care of this properly.
We have also noticed that the aft end of the Archimedes bolt may be rubbing the upper sear of some triggers. Thus far, we have very few confirmed occurrences of this, one of which was with a Tubb T7 trigger, but we will be reducing the diameter of the aft end of the bolt by about 0.020” thus adding an additional 0.010” of clearance between the bottom of the cocking piece and the top of the trigger assembly, most likely the upper sear. A bolt having the reduced aft diameter has already been successfully tested for strength.
Lastly, as some of you have already noticed, the cocking piece of the Archimedes is engraved with a couple of number, such as 780/055. These signify some important dimensions of the cocking piece that will enable us to offer you variation that will improve (depending on your preference) your tactile experience when closing the bolt. Most of our customers seem to prefer smooth and bump-free bolt-closing rotation. It’s worth noting that an action exhibiting bump-free closing will not cock-on-close at all. However, nearly all major brands of bolt-action rifles cock-on-close and do so for a very good reason, it improves ignition reliability while reducing the effort to open the bolt. But the heart wants what it wants, and we aim to deliver what it wants. Therefore, during testing, we determined that sear interface protrusion of 0.055 inches (see Figure 2) will result in bump-free bolt-closing when used with Remington, Trigger Tech, Timney, and Jewell triggers. This may not always be the case. We know triggers vary, even triggers of the same type from the same manufacturer. The parts of the action also vary. Thus, if you happen to be using a 780/055 cocking piece and a trigger from one of the aforementioned companies, and you are experiencing some cock-on-close, you can replace your cocking piece with one having 0.010 or 0.020 inches less sear interface protrusion, 780/045 and 780/035 respectively. We are offering various cocking pieces so that you can time you action without having to grind either the cocking piece or sear. We currently have cocking pieces with having sear interface protrusions of .035, .045, .055, and .065 inches in stock. That will likely cover all of the popular triggers but we will make more sizes if necessary.
One of our customers recently sent his Archimedes action back to us along with his Bix’n Andy Tac Sport Pro trigger. We found that a 780/035 cocking piece was necessary to provide bump-free bolt closing.
As we learn more about trigger-cocking piece compatibility, we will compile data and make it available on our web site.
Oh yeah, and there’s one more thing. If you have received a long action Archimedes, we will be sending you a new Picatinny rail for it. We screwed up one of the recoil slots. No need to send your defective rail back to us. Keep it as a back up or just keep using it and keep your new one as the backup. We will continue to send long actions with defective rails to get you shooting sooner than later. We’ll send the new rails as soon as we have them, probably within the next month or two.
Sorry about the speed bumps. The absence of the helical relief cut is really the only major issue and correcting that is our number one priority. We seriously appreciate your business and apologize for the inconvenience and delay these issues may cause.
As always, thanks for your business, support, and interest in firearms.
Sincerely,
Ted
President
American Rifle Company
Dear American Rifle Company customer:
You are receiving this message because the Archimedes action that you have just received from us or will receive very soon has a minor problem that we must remedy. If you have not received your action yet but have paid for it in full, shipping will be delayed by about five to seven business days while we correct the problem.
So what’s wrong.
The bolt shroud locking pin is not disengaging the bolt body making it difficult to close the bolt. This is because the bolt body is missing a helical relief cut. See Figure 1. The Archimedes prototypes did not require this cut because they did not have closing cams machined into the forward end of the receiver. Since prototyping, we decided to incorporate 0.050” of forward camming to aid in closing the bolt over tight or slightly oversized brass. Unfortunately, we failed to include the helical relief cut that enables the bolt shroud to disengage the bolt before bolt rotation begins. The action will work without the relief cut but the effort required to make it work depends on the relationship between the cocking piece and the trigger assembly. A relationship that does not cock on close might seem to work fine but one that does cock on close will require a forceful push forward to close the bolt.
The fix is very straight forward, but it does require you to send your bolt to us so that we can replace it with one that has the relief cut. We will email a shipping label to you making the return process as painless as we can. You can also simply remove the bolt should locking pin and its spring, but we don’t recommend this because do so will allow the bolt should to easily rotate when the bolt is retracted. We really want you to send your bolt back to us so we can take care of this properly.
We have also noticed that the aft end of the Archimedes bolt may be rubbing the upper sear of some triggers. Thus far, we have very few confirmed occurrences of this, one of which was with a Tubb T7 trigger, but we will be reducing the diameter of the aft end of the bolt by about 0.020” thus adding an additional 0.010” of clearance between the bottom of the cocking piece and the top of the trigger assembly, most likely the upper sear. A bolt having the reduced aft diameter has already been successfully tested for strength.
Lastly, as some of you have already noticed, the cocking piece of the Archimedes is engraved with a couple of number, such as 780/055. These signify some important dimensions of the cocking piece that will enable us to offer you variation that will improve (depending on your preference) your tactile experience when closing the bolt. Most of our customers seem to prefer smooth and bump-free bolt-closing rotation. It’s worth noting that an action exhibiting bump-free closing will not cock-on-close at all. However, nearly all major brands of bolt-action rifles cock-on-close and do so for a very good reason, it improves ignition reliability while reducing the effort to open the bolt. But the heart wants what it wants, and we aim to deliver what it wants. Therefore, during testing, we determined that sear interface protrusion of 0.055 inches (see Figure 2) will result in bump-free bolt-closing when used with Remington, Trigger Tech, Timney, and Jewell triggers. This may not always be the case. We know triggers vary, even triggers of the same type from the same manufacturer. The parts of the action also vary. Thus, if you happen to be using a 780/055 cocking piece and a trigger from one of the aforementioned companies, and you are experiencing some cock-on-close, you can replace your cocking piece with one having 0.010 or 0.020 inches less sear interface protrusion, 780/045 and 780/035 respectively. We are offering various cocking pieces so that you can time you action without having to grind either the cocking piece or sear. We currently have cocking pieces with having sear interface protrusions of .035, .045, .055, and .065 inches in stock. That will likely cover all of the popular triggers but we will make more sizes if necessary.
One of our customers recently sent his Archimedes action back to us along with his Bix’n Andy Tac Sport Pro trigger. We found that a 780/035 cocking piece was necessary to provide bump-free bolt closing.
As we learn more about trigger-cocking piece compatibility, we will compile data and make it available on our web site.
Oh yeah, and there’s one more thing. If you have received a long action Archimedes, we will be sending you a new Picatinny rail for it. We screwed up one of the recoil slots. No need to send your defective rail back to us. Keep it as a back up or just keep using it and keep your new one as the backup. We will continue to send long actions with defective rails to get you shooting sooner than later. We’ll send the new rails as soon as we have them, probably within the next month or two.
Sorry about the speed bumps. The absence of the helical relief cut is really the only major issue and correcting that is our number one priority. We seriously appreciate your business and apologize for the inconvenience and delay these issues may cause.
As always, thanks for your business, support, and interest in firearms.
Sincerely,
Ted
President
American Rifle Company
Attachments
Shouldn’t it be right to begin with?
If I put “X$” down payment on a new car that’s due to arrive in 3 months from the factory.
I don’t expect to bring it back to the dealer to be made right.
I expect it to arrive in 3 months +/- a week or two, and start when I turn the key.
Not bashing ARC, they seem to have gotten a good handle on a some issues, but....
If I put “X$” down payment on a new car that’s due to arrive in 3 months from the factory.
I don’t expect to bring it back to the dealer to be made right.
I expect it to arrive in 3 months +/- a week or two, and start when I turn the key.
Not bashing ARC, they seem to have gotten a good handle on a some issues, but....
I think a lot of us expected there to be some bumps in the road. It's a pre-order of a new receiver. I chose to save some cash by jumping in early. So far, I see nothing to be upset over.
Pre order in the gun industry= free up front capital for the business with the privilege of beta testing lol
Any one who went in to this with expectations of perfect function out of the box is silly.
All I expect is that any issues will be worked out eventually.
I was fine with the delay of my Nucleus too. It was a big pre-order and from what I can tell ARC never had to deal with that volume of work before.
This time it was a redesign that was probably a bit rushed.
I'm going to have to send back some parts. It's no big deal, I expected some bumps in the road and I'm not going to need it before my Xylo.
ARC has never made a chassis before so I don't expect that to be perfectly smooth either.
It's early adopter problems and if they bother you, the solution is simple: wait.
You'll note that I didn't say bitch about it.
All I expect is that any issues will be worked out eventually.
I was fine with the delay of my Nucleus too. It was a big pre-order and from what I can tell ARC never had to deal with that volume of work before.
This time it was a redesign that was probably a bit rushed.
I'm going to have to send back some parts. It's no big deal, I expected some bumps in the road and I'm not going to need it before my Xylo.
ARC has never made a chassis before so I don't expect that to be perfectly smooth either.
It's early adopter problems and if they bother you, the solution is simple: wait.
You'll note that I didn't say bitch about it.
Except, statistically, you will absolutely need to bring that new car back to the dealer to be made right at some point.
simple solution is buy a AI that works out of the box and not wait a year
we're not talking a tac-ops full build, its a action
that is a drop in action...cant be that hard
every tom dick and harry are making r700 knock offs now
if they cant get a chassis right then we are all in trouble
its a square piece of aluminum with a a rectangle milled in it, with a few holes for screws
You should probably just avoid the pre-order and new product offerings in this industry. A lot less stress for yourself that way.
the ways things are going on the hide for the last year, i agree
but if the "new" guy is putting specs and drawings out there like @THEIS on his hoplite thread
id be alot more wiling to give it a shot
that thread has all kinds info that i have never seen posted or on a OEM website
part numbers, hardness specs per individual piece etc
putting the info out there tells me you got it squared away
im actually thinking really hard about going back on my "no customs anymore" promise
looks like it innovative with increased pressure capability as well
C'mon, man... referring to the Archimedes as a "drop in" and/or a "r700 knock off" is pretty disingenuous.
Does it have the same footprint as the r700? It does. Beyond that, and the fact that they're both manually operated turnbolt actions, there just aren't a hell of a lot of similarities between them. CRF vs push feed. Three lug vs two lug. 75* bolt throw vs 90*. Interchangeable bolt face vs fixed. Primary extraction via axial leverage vs rotational force. Integral recoil lug vs non-integral.
I'm not trying to go all ARC fanboi or anything here, but really, you can't sit there and call the Archimedes an r700 knock off and expect that no one's gonna ring the BS bell.
The point of the Archimedes (and the Nucleus and Mausingfield before it) is that it offers features that are either innovative in and of themselves, or innovative in their combination with other features... as such, I would expect there to be some modest teething pains as the designs get out into the wild.
ARC is one of the very few companies that isn't making r700 knockoff. Almost every custom pushfeed action is pretty much just an improved r700.
One of the many reasons why I love my Mausingfield. It's actual fairly original for an action.
One of the many reasons why I love my Mausingfield. It's actual fairly original for an action.
A chassis should be simple compared to an action but it is certainly different. It's a lot bigger than the pieces they usually deal with. That's not necessarily harder, just different.
My MPA had some bumps in the road and they have been making chassis for years.
I expect the Xylo to be a better chassis but I'm not expecting it to be 100% perfect out of the box.
ARC is high end, innovative stuff, the analog in automobiles is probably Tesla. Look at how rough and delayed the Tesla Model 3 rollout was. Tesla also had the benefit of a high tech factory running at 10% capacity. They pre-ordered too.
I would argue ARC is doing it better with less.
My MPA had some bumps in the road and they have been making chassis for years.
I expect the Xylo to be a better chassis but I'm not expecting it to be 100% perfect out of the box.
ARC is high end, innovative stuff, the analog in automobiles is probably Tesla. Look at how rough and delayed the Tesla Model 3 rollout was. Tesla also had the benefit of a high tech factory running at 10% capacity. They pre-ordered too.
I would argue ARC is doing it better with less.
all joking aside i think you all lost your mind lol
change the bolt head bighorn and many others
three lug design everybody in their grandmother now
control feed vs push...mauser from over 100 years ago
integral recoil lug...are you actually telling me thats special and should cause engineering issues..talk about BS bell
if we cant get that right we are doing something wrong
and im not picking on him or the company one bit...i havent created any actions so im not in the same league
but thats what the in house RD testing is for
you dont just put a bunch of ideas together and sell a product
explain how almost every aftermarket trigger doesnt work with the action
either there wasnt enough testing or the foresight to test more than one trigger
since its a "drop in"/no smith needed there should be foresight that customer will choose their own components
side note
tesla is only in business because the govt bankrolled a % of the sale price to the customer
its well known if they had to initially survive in the market without subsidies, tesla would be out of business 5-6 years ago
change the bolt head bighorn and many others
three lug design everybody in their grandmother now
control feed vs push...mauser from over 100 years ago
integral recoil lug...are you actually telling me thats special and should cause engineering issues..talk about BS bell
if we cant get that right we are doing something wrong
and im not picking on him or the company one bit...i havent created any actions so im not in the same league
but thats what the in house RD testing is for
you dont just put a bunch of ideas together and sell a product
explain how almost every aftermarket trigger doesnt work with the action
either there wasnt enough testing or the foresight to test more than one trigger
since its a "drop in"/no smith needed there should be foresight that customer will choose their own components
side note
tesla is only in business because the govt bankrolled a % of the sale price to the customer
its well known if they had to initially survive in the market without subsidies, tesla would be out of business 5-6 years ago
So what you're telling me is that there is no other action out there that offers the same combination of features as the offerings from ARC. No one is claiming that ARC invented the replaceable bolt head/face, or the three lug bolt, or CRF... but to combine those features into the same action is where the innovation is. Add in the leveraged extraction, and there's another unique feature. Regarding the other sources of some of these design features, you'll note that ARC's first offering (the Mausingfield) has its design inspirations right in the name.
FWIW, the only reason I mentioned the integral recoil lug is because it's just one more difference between the Archimedes and a bog-standard r700.
I’m tracking,
If the combination of those particular features happens to be a first in the industry
That just bolsters my issue with the apparent lack of R&D/ testing
Knowing that a design may be going outside the box I would think one would double down on perfection
Not to have functional issues like this arise
We aren’t talking about a part needing a different material
Or a part needing a different type of heat treating because of wear
Those issues I would 100% expect with a brand new product once they are heavily used in the field, no amount of in house can come across all of those
The issues that customers are dealing with are pure design engineering issues which were not properly vetted in the process, specifically excluded or overlooked
As well as some noted/admitted QC issues on other parts, in the previous posts
With rifles form follows function not the other way around
Don’t want to get in a pissing match (you seem like a normal person having a useful conversation...unlike a lot of members)
And I’m not trying to bash product, not every thing I sell is perfect..that’s for damn sure
I’m just looking at it from a project manager point of view...there would be asses getting chewed if this was on my watch
If the combination of those particular features happens to be a first in the industry
That just bolsters my issue with the apparent lack of R&D/ testing
Knowing that a design may be going outside the box I would think one would double down on perfection
Not to have functional issues like this arise
We aren’t talking about a part needing a different material
Or a part needing a different type of heat treating because of wear
Those issues I would 100% expect with a brand new product once they are heavily used in the field, no amount of in house can come across all of those
The issues that customers are dealing with are pure design engineering issues which were not properly vetted in the process, specifically excluded or overlooked
As well as some noted/admitted QC issues on other parts, in the previous posts
With rifles form follows function not the other way around
Don’t want to get in a pissing match (you seem like a normal person having a useful conversation...unlike a lot of members)
And I’m not trying to bash product, not every thing I sell is perfect..that’s for damn sure
I’m just looking at it from a project manager point of view...there would be asses getting chewed if this was on my watch
I agree that ARC should have caught these issues with better QC before shipping. However, the next best thing is to make it right, with free repairs and free shipping labels, which ARC is doing. It's just the nature of a new product with so much complex machining.
I may be mistaken, but I heard from a very prominent and knowledgeable gun Smith that is a member here, that when the Archimedes was at shot show (preorders were made before, during, and after SHOT), none of the prototypes had ever been fired at all. No real function tests were done at that point. Idk if that is true but that's what they told me. If it is true, that would make some sense of why there are so many problems. I sold my pre order spot a long time ago and bought an AI. Glad I did. Still love my nuke. I'm on my 2nd one.
May pick up an Archimedes in the future, but for now I'll stick with my 2x Nucleus as well. Have one built and it runs great, need to build the second one eventually.
Would really like to see ARC make cocking pieces with various lengths of sear engagement for the Nucleus... I suggested that many months ago in one of the Nucleus threads to allow easy trigger/action tuning when people were complaining about the bump on closing. At least they're now offering various length cocking pieces for the Archimedes...
Would really like to see ARC make cocking pieces with various lengths of sear engagement for the Nucleus... I suggested that many months ago in one of the Nucleus threads to allow easy trigger/action tuning when people were complaining about the bump on closing. At least they're now offering various length cocking pieces for the Archimedes...
This is my third ARC action. The Mausingfield had been out for a bit when I bought it back in 2016. No issues with it that I am aware of. I chose it over the Bighorn as at the time it wasn’t available with controlled round feed.
Then I happened across the Nucleus pre-order and decided to try one because of the introductory price. FOMO!!! Didn’t do anything with it until I pre-ordered the Archimedes. My Nucleus was in the 18# spring batch, hitching up pretty good. They smoothed it out for me and cycles like a champ.
My Archimedes is delayed which I expected. The oversight in production is thankfully something that can be “easily” corrected in house.
That being said, I understand how something can be overlooked. That a production delay can happen. In the I.T. world a new production processor or video card is not for me! I always wait for the kinks to sort out.
Do not pre-order anything and expect perfection if the item is new to the market. A Subaru WRX year to year is fine with the same boxer engine but don’t hop on the BRZ that has a new engine and not expect problems (as an example only). Understand that I am not saying, you as a consumer should be R&D, just that as an early adopter you are helping seed a new product and there may be bumps along the way. I agree that a pre-order should mean seed money and first to receive but that is generally not the case. Which is unfortunate.
I think ARC is a fine product. Anything new with moving parts, controlling small explosions, along with tolerance considerations et. al is going to have growing pains.
Then I happened across the Nucleus pre-order and decided to try one because of the introductory price. FOMO!!! Didn’t do anything with it until I pre-ordered the Archimedes. My Nucleus was in the 18# spring batch, hitching up pretty good. They smoothed it out for me and cycles like a champ.
My Archimedes is delayed which I expected. The oversight in production is thankfully something that can be “easily” corrected in house.
That being said, I understand how something can be overlooked. That a production delay can happen. In the I.T. world a new production processor or video card is not for me! I always wait for the kinks to sort out.
Do not pre-order anything and expect perfection if the item is new to the market. A Subaru WRX year to year is fine with the same boxer engine but don’t hop on the BRZ that has a new engine and not expect problems (as an example only). Understand that I am not saying, you as a consumer should be R&D, just that as an early adopter you are helping seed a new product and there may be bumps along the way. I agree that a pre-order should mean seed money and first to receive but that is generally not the case. Which is unfortunate.
I think ARC is a fine product. Anything new with moving parts, controlling small explosions, along with tolerance considerations et. al is going to have growing pains.
Got my action back today. Cycles as smooth as a baby's butt.
So just cycling it next to my M5, definitely has a different feel. If anything, I would say it is running smoother than the Mausingfield, and that is saying a lot.
I'll be taking it to K&M week after next so it will get a thrashing. I'll report back further after that.
So just cycling it next to my M5, definitely has a different feel. If anything, I would say it is running smoother than the Mausingfield, and that is saying a lot.
I'll be taking it to K&M week after next so it will get a thrashing. I'll report back further after that.
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Mine arrived yesterday and I had a chance to look at it today. Unless you know what the bolt looked like before you wouldn't know there was a design change / fix. My action originally would close with the trigger on and I didn't have to force it. However, the sear did touch the bolt and you could feel it if you knew what was going on. The interference with the sear is gone and the trigger is now timed. The bolt safety is much better and something I didn't originally notice but now that it is fixed is pretty obvious. The bolt was originally kind of finicky to close on the safety and now it closes like any other action without it.
Mine with a Triggertech Special just has a little hitch on close. If you run it like you normally would it’s just a little bit noticeable. I’ve debated about not sending it in but I know I never will if I don’t do it now.
Got mine back today. With the Triggertech special it's still got some cock on close. It's cool the turnaround was so quick but I'm a little disappointed that they didn't put the right sear in. It just feels clunky compared to the Mausingfield. I'll contact them tomorrow and see if there's a fix. If you are going to send it in, I'd send your trigger too. Checking the box and telling them which trigger you are using on the return sheet isn't good enough.
-Dan
-Dan
I don't think they are hand fitting cocking pieces so you get the best fitting cocking piece from the sizes available. That is going to leave some fitments with positive cock on close or negative cock on close.
When u guys mention "cock on close", do you mean, the the bolt has some spring tension pushing it back out when its near "close bolt" position?
Basically the sear from the bolt and sear from the trigger is making slight contact before the bolt get pushed forward all the way before turning to close bolt?
Thanks!
Basically the sear from the bolt and sear from the trigger is making slight contact before the bolt get pushed forward all the way before turning to close bolt?
Thanks!
You've gotta push forward on the bolt with a few pounds to get the bolt handle to go down. You can't just slide the bolt forward then easily close it like you can with pretty much any factory action. It makes the bolt feel really clunky. You've gotta run it hard/fast for it to not be an issue. Some folks are ok with that. I ran my Mausingfield that way for a while and through a few competitions but it honestly cycles worse than just about any Rem 700/Savage/Tikka etc. Going with a different trigger fixed the MF thankfully. That same trigger from the MF makes no improvement on the Archimedes. Hoping I can just go with a different sear length and fix it.
Well, everyone keeps pussy footing around not to talk shit about ARC. I will never buy another thing from them. I was lied to by Ted a couple years ago over and over about how long it was going to be before my paid in full lh mausingfield shipped, after about 12 weeks and he told me 8 more weeks for the 3rd time, I had him refund my money.
How does a company keep letting shit go out the door fucked up over and over and everyone still thinks it's a good product? Is it because he has the highest priced shit in the industry? Magazine followers were fucked up, nucleus was fucked up, now this. There are tons of great actions, and products out there that function great and you dont have to deal with this shit over and over. If it was one time, okay, I get it. Two times? Okay they made it right, but every freaking time ARC has a new product something is screwed up and its delayed for weeks and weeks. You guys are letting him do R&D with your money!!! Why?????
How does a company keep letting shit go out the door fucked up over and over and everyone still thinks it's a good product? Is it because he has the highest priced shit in the industry? Magazine followers were fucked up, nucleus was fucked up, now this. There are tons of great actions, and products out there that function great and you dont have to deal with this shit over and over. If it was one time, okay, I get it. Two times? Okay they made it right, but every freaking time ARC has a new product something is screwed up and its delayed for weeks and weeks. You guys are letting him do R&D with your money!!! Why?????
Well for me as well as for probably 99% of us, these are toys meant for a hobby. I didn't buy it because I NEED it and especially not if I needed something by a certain time. I'm confident they will make things right so I'm not too worried about it. I don't get stressed over hobbies. I bought it because it's a neat idea and I value the innovation.
That's why I don't buy brand new products from any company.
I love my M5 Mausingfield, but I bought it after that action was out for a couple of years.
So you wrote off a company because you preordered a yet to be produced action made by a one man shop that took longer to get to production than originally scheduled? Seems rather short sighted but I was told 4 months I believe and ended up waiting over a year for my first long action Mausingfield, however I was willing to wait because I liked that specific action. Could I have went and bought another action and had it done sooner, yes but I chose not to and honestly it was worth the wait.
As for why we don’t talk shit on ARC, we like the products they offer and understand that any small company is going to have some issues with a new product simply because they don’t have the man power to test every configuration and in the end they will make it right. They are offering an action not a complete rifle so it’s not like they can control all the variables. As shown above, due to the design, the Archimedes worked fine with some triggers and less so with others even of the same manufacturer which is why they are now offering several different cocking pieces as the design is shown to be more sensitive to trigger bar length than a typical 700 clone.
That being said I’ve never had any issues with any ARC product I’ve bought. My original Mausingfield has been going strong for 3.5 years, the ARC mags have worked flawlessly in my Nucleus which never had a light strike with my 6.5 barrel. The only light strikes I ever got were occasionally when shooting frontier ammo in my .223 which is designed for ARs and has harder primers. With handloads and match ammo I have not had any light strikes and that is using the original 16 pound spring.
Ahhhh, okay... I was wondering how people were determining cock-on-close. I figured that the spring that I was compressing as I slid the bolt into the full forward position was the shroud locking pin spring. That'll teach me to figure.
You asked why. So, no offense, but you are not suited to be an "innovator" or "early adopter" as defined in the article I linked to below. And, that is OK.
I get that you want to tell your experience. You were unhappy. Perfect reason to get a refund and never buy again.
It seems like you can't understand how anyone could be an ARC customer. If you want to know why we aren't as mad as you are or ready to call Ted a liar, read the article. Many of us tend to like new stuff and its all part of the fun for us. Call me a fan boy. Its ok. I like Ted's style of innovation and realize crazy sometimes comes with a total package.
But, no one can call me unrealistic, stupid or whatever someone might want... I am happy with it. And, I hope you are happy with whatever action you bought. But, I bet there are people who are gonna bad mouth that company...
Many of us who bought the Nucleus early (#0005 short action and #0002 long action for me) also ordered the Archimedes. We knew what was going to happen. We weren't surprised or mad...
Anyone who orders early in a product life cycle should understand the pros and cons of being the first. If you can't figure out the risk, and aren't ready for it, definitely choose a different company.
Yeah, I get that there are blown deadlines and what not, and the first versions needed tweaking. But, our expectations were tempered by reality and we didn't fool ourselves by thinking it would be any different.
I guess I really don't understand why you would spend time coming into a thread that makes you mad all over again, crap on a company, and question our sanity.
productcoalition.com
I get that you want to tell your experience. You were unhappy. Perfect reason to get a refund and never buy again.
It seems like you can't understand how anyone could be an ARC customer. If you want to know why we aren't as mad as you are or ready to call Ted a liar, read the article. Many of us tend to like new stuff and its all part of the fun for us. Call me a fan boy. Its ok. I like Ted's style of innovation and realize crazy sometimes comes with a total package.
But, no one can call me unrealistic, stupid or whatever someone might want... I am happy with it. And, I hope you are happy with whatever action you bought. But, I bet there are people who are gonna bad mouth that company...
Many of us who bought the Nucleus early (#0005 short action and #0002 long action for me) also ordered the Archimedes. We knew what was going to happen. We weren't surprised or mad...
Anyone who orders early in a product life cycle should understand the pros and cons of being the first. If you can't figure out the risk, and aren't ready for it, definitely choose a different company.
Yeah, I get that there are blown deadlines and what not, and the first versions needed tweaking. But, our expectations were tempered by reality and we didn't fool ourselves by thinking it would be any different.
I guess I really don't understand why you would spend time coming into a thread that makes you mad all over again, crap on a company, and question our sanity.
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly about Early Adopters
I’ve been thinking about early adopters lately and how they can lead a product to the wrong directions. This post is a recap of this one…
productcoalition.com
Also, we are no "pussy footing around". I am really tired of these drive by posts by people, including you, who come by a thread just to crap on it. We are indulging in our hobby, and it makes us happy. I suggest you find the threads for actions that you like and go there. You won't be so unhappy as you try to figure out why grown adults might make different choices than you and why we might see the world differently than you.
Just to be clear about my answers to your questions, I've answered them below.
Just to be clear about my answers to your questions, I've answered them below.
I have no ill will towards Ted or ARC. I knew what I was getting into.
Have there been bumps in the road? Yep. Bound to be. But every single time Ted has stepped up to the plate and either fixed the problem or made it right.
My Archimedes cycles pretty damn well without going back. I could probably stone the cocking piece and remove the cock on close myself.
My Nucleus has functioned fine from day one and had exactly 10 rounds through it before I went to a class and sent another 250 thru it. Would have aced the “test” at the end except for one target and that was on me.
Am I fanboy, idk I’d go that far.
I am a small business owner though and I appreciate how he’s handled things thus far. Maybe should have got that one little machining error on final QC, but shit happens and he’s proven, yet again, he can handle things satisfactorily.
Have there been bumps in the road? Yep. Bound to be. But every single time Ted has stepped up to the plate and either fixed the problem or made it right.
My Archimedes cycles pretty damn well without going back. I could probably stone the cocking piece and remove the cock on close myself.
My Nucleus has functioned fine from day one and had exactly 10 rounds through it before I went to a class and sent another 250 thru it. Would have aced the “test” at the end except for one target and that was on me.
Am I fanboy, idk I’d go that far.
I am a small business owner though and I appreciate how he’s handled things thus far. Maybe should have got that one little machining error on final QC, but shit happens and he’s proven, yet again, he can handle things satisfactorily.
I've been thinking about this all day and I'm pretty handy with tools, etc. It really only needs a little bit and I fear the next size cocking piece might be too far so I'm willing to give it a try. Worst case I have to just buy the next size. Have you personally done this and do you have any info you could share on it?
-Dan
I fit the cocking piece on a TL3, they should be the same. Trim back the engagement surface on the cocking piece until the pin cocking is neutral. Don't change the angle of the cocking piece. Frankly I think it is overrated and I'd just run the cock on close.
It's tough to just deal with it at this point after realizing how much better the Mausingfield feels once it's set up right. Cock on close doesn't bother me at all on old Mausers, etc. but it's a different feel. This just feels like there's something wrong on what should be a really smooth action otherwise.
If you don't want to send it in, and don't mind cock on close, but want it to actually close, then you need to modify the bolt in the manner depicted in the pic Ted posted above (pic attached). Also, trimming the bolt shroud spring may help (I made mine so there's no spring sticking out of the shroud with the pin/plunger removed), but you need that ramp in there.
Attachments
I buy from those who innovate instead of buying tried and true designs. Those that do not innovate stagnate and die, eventually.
I bought the Archimedes because it is different and I like different.
I bought a Nucleus and put the light spring back in, adjusted firing pin protrusion to .032” and it is amazing. It sets off FGMM primers 100% of the time. The only resistance is the detent now and it will get a lighter spring.
I bought the Archimedes because it is different and I like different.
I bought a Nucleus and put the light spring back in, adjusted firing pin protrusion to .032” and it is amazing. It sets off FGMM primers 100% of the time. The only resistance is the detent now and it will get a lighter spring.
Use a diamond file to put a good-sized chamfer on the tip of the detent pin.
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