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bad lot of steel and rumors

im not saying there isnt "something going on".....but i can assure you.....its not "bad steel"......



neither a heat treat issue, or a chemical comp issue (or whatever "bad steel" means) are going to cause a rifle to all of a sudden start shooting better once it warms up
Are you sure? Poor/inconsistent heat treat will leave stresses thay cause soft spots, soft spots expand more as the barrel warms, pushing the poi away. Why would the same load bullet walk 2" right in a 10 round string, but then shoot the same exact POI for 10 more rounds in the poi of the last shot of 10 round string? I know of 3 other individuals having this exact same repeatable results. I alternated the 10 shot warm up zero shift ammo in the test, and repeated it two more times, same exact results. Walked 0.5-0.6 mil R as the barrel wamred but then held same POI for next 9-10 rounds. I have a bad barrel, and it's done this since the beginning, first range trip. I've talked to Bartlein CS and I was given several things that are possibly causing this, not a single one was "could be a bad barrel". I have 6 different 6gt barrels, these loads shoot half moa or better in all of them, from a 30" AI rifle, to a 20" hawkhill. With 24 26 and 28" in between. This 22" should be no different.
 
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I run into similar stuff at work in a manufacturing setting. One example. Upon completion of a job that runs longer than it should, I check the notes.

“Could not make rate, bad lot of steel.”

I go talk to the machinist. He is breaking inserts every part or every other part. Material is a bear.

Go to the computer and pull up the certs. It is the same lot as the last 3 runs on the job.

Turns out he had an insert drill that was partially tightened. It kept pushing back further into the turret. The rougher would hit the material that was not removed and fail. The following tools would do the same.

Once the setup was straightened out, everything ran just fine again on the next run.

But the guy KNEW it was a bad lot of material.
 
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I run into similar stuff at work in a manufacturing setting. One example. Upon completion of a job that runs longer than it should, I check the notes.

“Could not make rate, bad lot of steel.”

I go talk to the machinist. He is breaking inserts every part or every other part. Material is a bear.

Go to the computer and pull up the certs. It is the same lot as the last 3 runs on the job.

Turns out he had an insert drill that was partially tightened. It kept pushing back further into the turret. The rougher would hit the material that was not removed and fail. The following tools would do the same.

Once the setup was straightened out, everything ran just fine again.

But the guy KNEW it was a bad lot of material.

You can show the certs to the same idiot and he will argue all fucking day about how everyone and everything but him is the problem.

Same as here.
 
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The simple switch to N570 from H1000 is modeled to reduce "accurate" barrel life by approx 40%

View attachment 8237869
Dude at Rokslide listed RL33 and RL50. Given his stated velocity and projectiles 20 & 25 grains heavier than used in that cartridge, his pressure was more like 68,000 PSI. The expected life span will get even shorter.
Couple that with claimed over cleaning from what he saw as excessive copper fouling (without saying HOW he cleaned), the end result isn't really that shocking.
There is no such thing as a free lunch, that velocity with those chosen components has to come from somewhere.
 
Dude at Rokslide listed RL33 and RL50. Given his stated velocity and projectiles 20 & 25 grains heavier than used in that cartridge, his pressure was more like 68,000 PSI. The expected life span will get even shorter.
Couple that with claimed over cleaning from what he saw as excessive copper fouling (without saying HOW he cleaned), the end result isn't really that shocking.
There is no such thing as a free lunch, that velocity with those chosen components has to come from somewhere.
I'm not as qualified as some others here to comment on this but I have been loading for a while now and understand it fairly well. Seems to me he got about what you'd expect him to get with the load he was running and the clambering he selected didn't he? No telling what that " + P " chamber actually consisted of either. Basically, as usual getting a story from only one side provides about half the information.
 
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Ive had one barrel that was "marginal" and a few others around that time frame were reporting similar out of the same barrels... no consistency... up down left right... didnt matter the load(everything was a "scatter" node out of a 3 grain spread I loaded)... And this was from well known, high end barrel manufacturer and barrel finisher...

We all(like 4 or 5 of us IIRC) decided to shoot them 150-200 rounds and see if things cleaned up as they lapped in slightly and got a little copper on them as most of us suspected the bores were possibly slightly rough or the gas ports had a bur and the bullet jacket was not coming out cleanly. My barrel calmed down after about 150-170 rounds and its a hammer now.

At the time everybody was claiming "bad steel" and I was like "I just dont think so"... I'm 99% certain I was correct.
 
I'm not as qualified as some others here to comment on this but I have been loading for a while now and understand it fairly well. Seems to me he got about what you'd expect him to get with the load he was running and the clambering he selected didn't he? No telling what that " + P " chamber actually consisted of either. Basically, as usual getting a story from only one side provides about half the information.
From what we where told.... the +P chamber cuts the throat/land height in half. Some guys have modified this also. In this case he told us the throat was lengthen .750" as well.

That's why I made the comment on rokslide... maybe the designer of the +P chamber stuff should warranty the barrels when there is a problem.

There is no hard test data performed in regards to pressures and barrel life, velocities etc... with the +P chambers that I have seen anywhere. Then guys are adding X amount of more powder and no data in any loading manual etc... to back it up. Some testing in ammunition pressure test barrels would need to be done to set some sort of a standard. Then you can compare to standard spec chambers and also come up with barrel life information etc...
 
From what we where told.... the +P chamber cuts the throat/land height in half. Some guys have modified this also. In this case he told us the throat was lengthen .750" as well.

That's why I made the comment on rokslide... maybe the designer of the +P chamber stuff should warranty the barrels when there is a problem.

There is no hard test data performed in regards to pressures and barrel life, velocities etc... with the +P chambers that I have seen anywhere. Then guys are adding X amount of more powder and no data in any loading manual etc... to back it up. Some testing in ammunition pressure test barrels would need to be done to set some sort of a standard. Then you can compare to standard spec chambers and also come up with barrel life information etc...
Yeah, it's just all way too sketchy to make any real sense of it, but that's kind of my point. Who knows what the smith actually did but if half the lands are supposed to be gone to start out with and you're running a big bullet (even for the 300 rum), extremely fast, it stands to reason you are going to kill the barrel life.
 
Friend just told me that he was at a public range today. He watched a guy "sighting in a light weight, fancy 300 magnum." The guy fired over 20 rounds with no success. Oddly the rifle had no scope and no iron sights.

He was probably the cousin of the guy cussing Bartlein barrel steel.

Frank, get a new motto. "No barrels sold to idiots."
 
Friend just told me that he was at a public range today. He watched a guy "sighting in a light weight, fancy 300 magnum." The guy fired over 20 rounds with no success. Oddly the rifle had no scope and no iron sights.

He was probably the cousin of the guy cussing Bartlein barrel steel.

Frank, get a new motto. "No barrels sold to idiots."

Have a little test before allowing you to the checkout.

What is a cordless drill used for?

A. Pounding nails
B. Drilling
C. Cleaning Barrels
D. Eating Soup
 
Frank, get a new motto. "No barrels sold to idiots."

1696010228945.gif


A oldie but a goodie. Don’t click on it if you are a bit squeamish.

Depicts @Frank Green on some bad days.
 
My point has just be proven yet again.

Someone who "shot out a good amount" and "one guy on rokslide shot out one barrel."

The amount of barrels that would need to be shot out (with all other variables controlled very well) to come up with something like a 200-500 round window of what most barrels should last.....is beyond the comprehension of most who think their handful of barrels matter.
 
Am I reading this correctly.......someone has a chamber cut that removes half the height of the lands....and then expect the chamber to have the same life as a chamber cut with the full height of the lands???

If it were that easy, why aren't all chambers cut this way? Everyone loves a free lunch. Cut the land height down, get more velocity with less pressure, and get the same amount of barrel life......
 
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Am I reading this correctly.......someone has a chamber cut that removes half the height of the lands....and then expect the chamber to have the same life as a chamber cut with the full height of the lands???

If it were that easy, why aren't all chambers cut this way? Everyone loves a free lunch. Cut the land height down, get more velocity with less pressure, and get the same amount of barrel life......
That appears to be the situation, you just left out sending the big heavies at 3050fps but yeah that's it... " There is nothing new under the sun " comes to mind..... We've done this before as @Terry Cross pointed out ....
 
It's also nothing new with shooters not understanding the actual range of chamber/barrel life for cartridges.

Over many, many years and hundreds of barrels, we have seen 6.5cm go as low as 1200-1500 rounds and as high as 5000 rounds. Different manufacturers and ammo of course.

Point being, there's hundreds of thousands of 6.5cm barrels being shot daily all around the country and world. It's not going to be uncommon for anyone to have a barrel or three that land on one end or the other of the bell curve.


You just don't see people complaining when their barrel lasts 5k rounds. Even though they just experienced the same semi-rare occurrence as a barrel that lasted 1200 rounds.


This concept will hold true across every cartridge. The window of barrel life is going to be much, much larger than most people realize. And they only complain when they are on the wrong size of the bell curve.
 
It's also nothing new with shooters not understanding the actual range of chamber/barrel life for cartridges.

Over many, many years and hundreds of barrels, we have seen 6.5cm go as low as 1200-1500 rounds and as high as 5000 rounds. Different manufacturers and ammo of course.

Point being, there's hundreds of thousands of 6.5cm barrels being shot daily all around the country and world. It's not going to be uncommon for anyone to have a barrel or three that land on one end or the other of the bell curve.


You just don't see people complaining when their barrel lasts 5k rounds. Even though they just experienced the same semi-rare occurrence as a barrel that lasted 1200 rounds.


This concept will hold true across every cartridge. The window of barrel life is going to be much, much larger than most people realize. And they only complain when they are on the wrong size of the bell curve.
I was going to ask about this also. Thr range that people give on 6cm is huge. Some claim its 1000 rounds and some claim to get 2500 rounds or more if you run it slow.That's a massive difference and mine has always been closer to 2000 rounds give or take. So if the modBB steel gives me 25% more, then is that 25% more of 1000 round barrel, or a 2500 round barrel? One gives you 1250 and one gives you 3125, depending on what baseline you use.
 
Guy is saying barrel one shoots out faster than barrel. Both barrels come from same metal and hardening lot. Both barrels are cut rifled with same type of rifling

Different smiths made the rifles
Different guys loaded for them

FBI clues
It’s either BS or not the barrels
 
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I was going to ask about this also. Thr range that people give on 6cm is huge. Some claim its 1000 rounds and some claim to get 2500 rounds or more if you run it slow.That's a massive difference and mine has always been closer to 2000 rounds give or take. So if the modBB steel gives me 25% more, then is that 25% more of 1000 round barrel, or a 2500 round barrel? One gives you 1250 and one gives you 3125, depending on what baseline you use.

Ya, it's huge. Not to mention there are many definitions of "shot out."

Some think a barrel is shot out when they can no longer get an acceptable group size or velocity.....even after changing loads over the life of the barrel.

Some think the barrel is shot out when it takes the first velocity drop or precision change.
 
The fella earlier in the thread talking about .243 barrels......

Assuming it was either a .243 rem or 6cm. Both of those cartridges can have somewhere in the 800-2500 (some people say more at times) ranges. We have seen this across multiple barrel companies and other variables. Too many to narrow down and say "as long as you do X and barrel is Y, you will get within a 500 round window."

So, it's extremely easy that said fella could have been on the right side of the bell curve with 2k round barrels, and then on the left size of the curve with 1k barrels.

It wouldn't even move the needle on the probability scale for that to happen to a single person with a sample size of 10 barrels (or even quite a few more).
 
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The fella earlier in the thread talking about .243 barrels......

Assuming it was either a .243 rem or 6cm. Both of those cartridges can have somewhere in the 800-2500 (some people say more at times) ranges. We have seen this across multiple barrel companies and other variables. Too many to narrow down and say "as long as you do X and barrel is Y, you will get within a 500 round window."

So, it's extremely easy that said fella could have been on the right side of the bell curve with 2k round barrels, and then on the left size of the curve with 1k barrels.

It wouldn't even move the needle on the probability scale for that to happen to a single person with a sample size of 10 barrels (or even quite a few more).
Agreed. I have one 300WM never shot more than twenty rds before cooling. Has 4K us through it and still holds sun half moa groups. Only ammo has been mild load of 190 SMK’s

Next 300WM shot out in 1200 rds. In two days of hard shooting with hot load of 210 SMK at 3000fps. Went from sub half moa to 4 moa.

One has been treated well. One I ruined running it like Varmint Rifle.

Too many variables to Blame on barrel brand
 
@Frank Green I know this is like your 10th post on barrel burn out/end of life, and I was looking for it in another thread and couldn’t find it, but can you define what it means for you for a barrel to be burnt out? There are various answers to this from velocity dropping off, flyers, excessive fouling to increase in BC variance (from Brian Litz). What do you guys at bartlein define as a barrel being burnt out? Is there a measurable factor that can be defined as the actual death of a barrel?
 
@Frank Green I know this is like your 10th post on barrel burn out/end of life, and I was looking for it in another thread and couldn’t find it, but can you define what it means for you for a barrel to be burnt out? There are various answers to this from velocity dropping off, flyers, excessive fouling to increase in BC variance (from Brian Litz). What do you guys at bartlein define as a barrel being burnt out? Is there a measurable factor that can be defined as the actual death of a barrel?
I doubt Bartlein cares when you call the barrel burnt out.

Mine are burnt out based on usage. I’ll call a barrel burnt out for 2 day matches, but still run it in regional matches. I have run “burnt out” regional barrels at classes and been just fine. I also save “burnt out” regional barrels for hunting at sub 300 yards.

Have not yet shot a barrel to the point where I cannot hunt with it to 300y.

Long way of saying it depends on how you want to use the barrel.
 
And that’s how I define it is based on intended use, I’m just curious if the barrel makers generally have a rough definition so when someone calls in and says they burnt out a barrel in after 400 rounds they have a way to evaluate it. Yea, +p’ing the throat or running a stainless steel brush on a drill covered in CLR should void any warranty claim but for the individual who just shoots and cleans the thing like a normal person who makes the claim im just curious how they generally evaluate it. I have a 300 WM on a bartlein blank that has just over 1900 rounds that I have absolutely abused that still went 7-10 on a 17” round at a mile a couple weeks ago, and I routinely run 50 rounds through it in less than 10 minutes when shooting at distance. I have never seen a barrel that shoots sub MOA open up to like 3”-4” groups at 100 out of nowhere
 
Just an idea, I have no proof; just a theory. Could there be something going on with powders? We've had a component crisis as we are all aware of due to increased demand for factory ammunition. Could the strained supply have led to sourcing raw materials for powder production from more sources which in turn led to more corrosive properties?

So if there is any truth to early "barrel burnout" perhaps it's possible the heat source could have something to do with it.

You'd have to first show there's actually early barrel burnout. Which is almost impossible to do without some pretty extensive data.

You'd have to show what the average round count is (with a given set of parameters), and then show what the standard deviation is. Which will then give you a bell curve and such to compare.

Then you'd need to have data that's before/after a certain point (date based on steel, powder, bullets, etc etc, etc) and have data before and after that point that shows the bell curve is different before and after such point.



The only people that would even have remotely close to that amount of data would be someone like @Frank Green who has already informed us that he has seen no such change from any high volume and/or professional use customer which would indicate there's an issue he needs to look into.
 
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For example, for the fella with the .243 barrels who says he normally gets 2,000 rounds, but only got 1k or less on three barrels.

For us to even begin to accept his claim there's an issue, we'd have to be able to confidently say those barrels should get X amount of rounds.

Is the 2000 rounds he'd like to see the average or the high end of barrels? If it's the average, what is the high end? If the high in is 3000 rounds, then a barrel with 1k rounds is on the low end, but not out of the ordinary.

If the average is 1500 rounds, and the high end is 2k, all of a sudden his 1k barrels are just on the low end of not a crazy swing and even more reasonable.




The only way his 1k barrels are a "problem" is if its something like 2k is average, 1800 is the low and 2200 is the high. And he's consistently seeing 800 round barrels.....all of a sudden that's significant. But, it only means there's a problem. We then have to diagnose the problem which could be something other than the actual barrel itself.


As you can see, claiming there's a barrel issue is already jumping the shark if there was a known round count issue, since no one has done any diagnostic testing to see if it's likely the barrel.

Add in some simple math/logic with sample size and having empirical data on barrel life round counts....and any claim what so ever to literally any reason there is a "problem" is wildly reckless and nonsensical. It would borderline on slander to anyone it was directed at.....powder, bullets, barrel, chamber....etc. As you literally have zero facts to back up any such claim.
 
Shortest barrel life that I've heard of that I believe was @Geno C. 338 Carnie. Used up on 500 rounds but no question as to why. 375 CheyTac with a 338 bolt face necked to 338 running 285 badlands at 3340 on top of 139 grains of h50. I just looked up the details.
 
@Frank Green I know this is like your 10th post on barrel burn out/end of life, and I was looking for it in another thread and couldn’t find it, but can you define what it means for you for a barrel to be burnt out? There are various answers to this from velocity dropping off, flyers, excessive fouling to increase in BC variance (from Brian Litz). What do you guys at bartlein define as a barrel being burnt out? Is there a measurable factor that can be defined as the actual death of a barrel?
There are a couple of ways of looking at it. Not in any specific order....

What is the accuracy requirement?

How many rounds in between cleanings/firings do you need out of the barrel and have the barrel hold accuracy?

Pressure and velocity changes?

Let's start with pressure and velocity changes. On ammunition pressure test barrels (which can also be used for accuracy testing but not all the time) when they see a pressure change and a velocity loss at the same time....that's a warning to an ammunition maker that the barrel is on it's last legs. They will pull the barrel from service as they don't want the barrel being a variable. When they see a pressure change of like 2k and a velocity loss of say around 60-80fps. that's pretty much showing that the throat of the chamber is done. They can maybe milk it for a little longer with very intense cleaning but again.... they are loading box ammo to a given pressure spec and a given velocity.

If an ammo maker/bullet maker is strictly using a accuracy test barrel to test bullets they can play with powder charges (tune of the load etc...) and same can apply to us normal everyday trigger pullers. We can change seating depth or bump powder charges or change powders to get more barrel life accuracy out of the barrel.

see next post....
 
You'd have to first show there's actually early barrel burnout. Which is almost impossible to do without some pretty extensive data.

The only people that would even have remotely close to that amount of data would be someone like @Frank Green who has already informed us that he has seen no such change from any high volume and/or professional use customer which would indicate there's an issue he needs to look into.
All good.... just shortened up your quote some.

Here are some numbers for you all....and being as 243win was mentioned (I didn't go back and read everything) I'll start with this one.

On a ammunition pressure test barrel.... rarely does a 243win make it I'll say past 800-900 rounds.

Same with a 300wm p&v test barrel. Most are getting pulled at about 800-900 rounds. Rarely do they make it past say a 1k rounds. If they got one that went 1200 that is getting out of the norm.

6.5CM on a p&v test barrel about 1700 is tops. If they got 1900 rounds out of one they milked it pretty good. Compare this to a 6.5PRC where they have get anywhere from 400 to 900 rounds. An average is 650 for this round.

I forget what was a normal for a p&v test barrel in 308win but I want to say it was around 4k. The 308win round for bore size is about the perfect relationship. It's very easy on barrels. Take that 308win and neck it down to 6.5mm or 6mm and you can see what happens above. Same thing happens when you take that 30cal barrel and chamber it in 300wm.... your basically doubling the amount of powder that goes down the bore.... which in turn leads to a shorter barrel life.

Any of the big 30 magnum rounds like 300wm, 300 Norma etc... looking at it from a accuracy point of view (not a pressure and velocity spec point of view).... I'll say 1k tops. If you got a 1k out of them that was great.

300 Norma pressure and velocity test barrels where they are trying to meet a .65moa accuracy requirement with box ammo (I think that is for either five or ten... 10 shot groups) they are pulling the barrels 500-600 rounds. After this round count they are on borrowed time so they don't want to trust the barrels anymore and will put a new one in service. They are going thru 10 barrels a month in this caliber.

Accuracy testing/shooting? First off you have to set a limit for your accuracy requirement. Just like in the example I listed above for the 300 Norma.
Your accuracy requirement (note I'm leaving out pressure and velocity here) can be way different in regards to what you get for barrel life.

I've gotten back barrels in 308win chamber that was strictly used for accuracy testing of bullets. I've gotten back not just one or two etc... but a bunch. Typically I cut them apart and use them for training tools at the sniper school houses. Anyways I have barrels with just shy of 10k rounds, 11,xxx, 13,xxx, 14,560 see attached pic never mind I'm having trouble uploading the pic.... sorry) and just earlier this year two barrels went 19k and 21K+ rounds before they would no longer hold .5moa or better. The normal accuracy test for bullets is five 10 shot groups and cleaning after every 50 rounds fired. If they are pushed for time and this applies to 308win only they will shoot as many as 150 rounds in between cleanings. Compare this to 6.5CM and usually the most they will get out of a barrel is 3k rounds and sometimes not even that.

This data is from test barrels being shot in controlled conditions with proper maintenance.
 
Here is what skew's the numbers both good and bad.... for barrel life.

Go back to what is your accuracy requirement? A .5moa accuracy vs a .75 or a 1moa spec is huge.

Cleaning? This is probably the biggest one and why I put it on the top of the list. A 243win barrel that will no longer hold accuracy for 80 rounds being fired and hold .5moa but if you clean it and it will hold .5moa for only 20 rounds being fired by the shooter.... is it dead? What are you using the gun for? Hunting or for a F open class gun?

Time between cleaning/firings? This applies to the above.....

Rate of fire? How hot you get the barrel?

Type of powder being used?

What the barrel is chambered in?

Has the chamber been modified at all? Length of throat, throat diameter etc..

Type of bullets being fired?

The environment the barrel is being shot it?
 
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@Frank Green

You mean the manufacturers of ammunition who go through dozens of barrels a year, clean their barrels for consistency and accuracy …before “it tells them to”

I call BS on your whole post

Edit…Joking
 
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@Frank Green

You mean the manufacturers of ammunition who go through dozens of barrels a year, clean their barrels for consistency and accuracy …before “it tells them to”

I call BS on your whole post
Are you serious or goofing around?

If your serious....goes back to everyone. You have good and bad. I just returned a test barrel to a ammo claiming they could chamber a special bullet in it because we didn't do a saami spec chamber. A....that is not true we did do a saami spec chamber. They also where using production guns to check the ammo they where loading and I had to tell them "you do know production guns can have what is called a production chamber it is bigger/looser than Saami min spec." and the phone went quiet!

Also the barrel had little to no maintenance. It was fouled bad and also had pitting in it from being put a way dirty etc...the barrel was 4 years old but again no maintenance.

Then you have other places (ammo/bullet makers) who do an awesome job of maintaining they're equipment. One place only has one guy allowed to use JB bore cleaner to clean the barrel when the need arises. No one else is allowed to touch it.

Yes the story is true about the 10 barrels a month just for the 300 Norma ammo maker. We've been making them the barrels for that caliber for like 2 years now. I have the orders to back it up. LOL!
 
All good.... just shortened up your quote some.

Here are some numbers for you all....and being as 243win was mentioned (I didn't go back and read everything) I'll start with this one.

On a ammunition pressure test barrel.... rarely does a 243win make it I'll say past 800-900 rounds.

Same with a 300wm p&v test barrel. Most are getting pulled at about 800-900 rounds. Rarely do they make it past say a 1k rounds. If they got one that went 1200 that is getting out of the norm.

6.5CM on a p&v test barrel about 1700 is tops. If they got 1900 rounds out of one they milked it pretty good. Compare this to a 6.5PRC where they have get anywhere from 400 to 900 rounds. An average is 650 for this round.

I forget what was a normal for a p&v test barrel in 308win but I want to say it was around 4k. The 308win round for bore size is about the perfect relationship. It's very easy on barrels. Take that 308win and neck it down to 6.5mm or 6mm and you can see what happens above. Same thing happens when you take that 30cal barrel and chamber it in 300wm.... your basically doubling the amount of powder that goes down the bore.... which in turn leads to a shorter barrel life.

Any of the big 30 magnum rounds like 300wm, 300 Norma etc... looking at it from a accuracy point of view (not a pressure and velocity spec point of view).... I'll say 1k tops. If you got a 1k out of them that was great.

300 Norma pressure and velocity test barrels where they are trying to meet a .65moa accuracy requirement with box ammo (I think that is for either five or ten... 10 shot groups) they are pulling the barrels 500-600 rounds. After this round count they are on borrowed time so they don't want to trust the barrels anymore and will put a new one in service. They are going thru 10 barrels a month in this caliber.

Accuracy testing/shooting? First off you have to set a limit for your accuracy requirement. Just like in the example I listed above for the 300 Norma.
Your accuracy requirement (note I'm leaving out pressure and velocity here) can be way different in regards to what you get for barrel life.

I've gotten back barrels in 308win chamber that was strictly used for accuracy testing of bullets. I've gotten back not just one or two etc... but a bunch. Typically I cut them apart and use them for training tools at the sniper school houses. Anyways I have barrels with just shy of 10k rounds, 11,xxx, 13,xxx, 14,560 see attached pic never mind I'm having trouble uploading the pic.... sorry) and just earlier this year two barrels went 19k and 21K+ rounds before they would no longer hold .5moa or better. The normal accuracy test for bullets is five 10 shot groups and cleaning after every 50 rounds fired. If they are pushed for time and this applies to 308win only they will shoot as many as 150 rounds in between cleanings. Compare this to 6.5CM and usually the most they will get out of a barrel is 3k rounds and sometimes not even that.

This data is from test barrels being shot in controlled conditions with proper maintenance.

This has been our experience as well. When you actually assign a reasonable standard for "barrel life" it's almost always shorter than what most claim online.
 
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Are you serious or goofing around?

If your serious....goes back to everyone. You have good and bad. I just returned a test barrel to a ammo claiming they could chamber a special bullet in it because we didn't do a saami spec chamber. A....that is not true we did do a saami spec chamber. They also where using production guns to check the ammo they where loading and I had to tell them "you do know production guns can have what is called a production chamber it is bigger/looser than Saami min spec." and the phone went quiet!

Also the barrel had little to no maintenance. It was fouled bad and also had pitting in it from being put a way dirty etc...the barrel was 4 years old but again no maintenance.

Then you have other places (ammo/bullet makers) who do an awesome job of maintaining they're equipment. One place only has one guy allowed to use JB bore cleaner to clean the barrel when the need arises. No one else is allowed to touch it.

Yes the story is true about the 10 barrels a month just for the 300 Norma ammo maker. We've been making them the barrels for that caliber for like 2 years now. I have the orders to back it up. LOL!
Goofing…as always

I should have added “witchcraft “ lol
 
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It is a bummer when a ammo maker sends me back a barrel and I have to go thru stuff like that. They of all people should know better. At least you would think.
It really just seems that people are afraid of data and specs.

Either lazy or the results won’t fit their narrative.

Bummer is used lightly lol
 
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It really just seems that people are afraid of data and specs.

Either lazy or the results won’t fit their narrative.

Bummer is used lightly lol
or better yet (and I'm not picking on ammo makers here just using for what we see) is when an ammo makers calls and says, "hey we're looking to shorten up cleaning time....what do you think of using ss bore brushes and abrasives?"

Part of my answer was.... knock yourself out... you will be buying double the amount of test barrels!
 

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