Barrel Torque Ludicrocity

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Show me the data that shows a difference in how the barrel shoots. between 30, 70 and 150 lbs of torque.

Also since these actions and barrels are not very elastic, what effect do you get on the threads every torque cycle?

If you cant show a compelling reason why you need to torque it more than say 50 lbs, despite what your little book of formulas says then you are wasting everyones time.

Then add in the ability to fixture it in place without damaging the action, lugs, tooling or fixturing while using insane torque values.


Some of the very best smiths in the world who have been doing this a long time, barely torque the barrel. Their barrels have won world records and championships. And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

 

[ohiofarmer]

And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

This thread is good for a laugh. Thanks. I for one can’t outshoot @MikeRTacOps but it’s nice that you can .

 

[lash]

Some of the very best smiths in the world who have been doing this a long time, barely torque the barrel. Their barrels have won world records and championships. And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

Okay, since you’re demanding proof of high torque, I’ll need proof of your claims here. Who are the “very best smiths” who barely torque the barrel who have won world records and what are those records?

I am listening as I want to learn.

 

[NateVA]

Show me the data that shows a difference in how the barrel shoots. between 30, 70 and 150 lbs of torque.

I don't think anyone ever made it about how well the barrels shoot.

If you cant show a compelling reason why you need to torque it more than say 50 lbs, despite what your little book of formulas says then you are wasting everyones time.

Some people did that in the replies to this thread. Josh at PVA talked about how he arrived at 75-100 ft/lbs torque via testing for zero shifts.

 

[MikeMiller]

Dude

Show me the data that shows a difference in how the barrel shoots. between 30, 70 and 150 lbs of torque.

Also since these actions and barrels are not very elastic, what effect do you get on the threads every torque cycle?

If you cant show a compelling reason why you need to torque it more than say 50 lbs, despite what your little book of formulas says then you are wasting everyones time.

Then add in the ability to fixture it in place without damaging the action, lugs, tooling or fixturing while using insane torque values.


Some of the very best smiths in the world who have been doing this a long time, barely torque the barrel. Their barrels have won world records and championships. And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

you really need to relax. Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean you have to attack

I have been doing this a ton longer than most and have heard both arguments. All it has shown me is more than one way that do it. I prefer enough torque I don’t worry if it will unscrew or wander as it heats

This reminds me of a smith whose bedding jobs looked like crap but his machine work was so good they still punched perfect groups

What ever works for you works for you

 

[Ronin22]

I don't think anyone ever made it about how well the barrels shoot.

Some people did that in the replies to this thread. Josh at PVA talked about how he arrived at 75-100 ft/lbs torque via testing for zero shifts.

Did you miss all of @Tokay444 posts about first round shots?

 

[Ronin22]

Show me the data that shows a difference in how the barrel shoots. between 30, 70 and 150 lbs of torque.

Also since these actions and barrels are not very elastic, what effect do you get on the threads every torque cycle?

If you cant show a compelling reason why you need to torque it more than say 50 lbs, despite what your little book of formulas says then you are wasting everyones time.

Then add in the ability to fixture it in place without damaging the action, lugs, tooling or fixturing while using insane torque values.


Some of the very best smiths in the world who have been doing this a long time, barely torque the barrel. Their barrels have won world records and championships. And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

I respect your points parts 1-4, but then you make statements without any data or evidence on the last paragraph, in contradiction to your original point of wanting data. Dial down the hate knob.

 

[Tokay444]

Show me the data that shows a difference in how the barrel shoots. between 30, 70 and 150 lbs of torque.

Also since these actions and barrels are not very elastic, what effect do you get on the threads every torque cycle?

If you cant show a compelling reason why you need to torque it more than say 50 lbs, despite what your little book of formulas says then you are wasting everyones time.

Then add in the ability to fixture it in place without damaging the action, lugs, tooling or fixturing while using insane torque values.


Some of the very best smiths in the world who have been doing this a long time, barely torque the barrel. Their barrels have won world records and championships. And yet we are supposed to listen to marginal to shitty shooters who have a rudimentary understanding of how material science applies to precision rifles.

Part of the point is that 150ft/lbs isn’t insane. I have no problem at all with a SAC vice and the action wrench provided by the action manufacturer.

 

[NateVA]

Did you miss all of @Tokay444 posts about first round shots?

I (maybe wrongly) interpreted his posts as being about missing cold bore shots due to zero shifts caused by impacts to the barrel. For guns that are used more "roughly" than benchrest or exclusively range guns. Not about ONLY the cold bore shot being off due to insufficient torque and then the rest of the group being where it should.

 

[Tokay444]

https://www.americanrifle.com/web/content/30461

 

[Tokay444]

https://americanrifle.odoo.com/shop/015-10900-ra-receiver-wrench-coup-de-grace-1786

 

[Skip1943]

Here's the thing for me... I don't give a shit what anyone torques their barrels to. My ego doesn't demand that anyone believe me, or that I'm absolutely right. But I'm supremely confident that my rifles are solid, in fit, form, and function.

The gunsmith that has built my last 2 rifles, builds PRS, and believes that 100 ft-lbs makes a difference for precision shooting. I know that it's enough to keep the barrel on, but far from any mechanical limits. I also know that the dude has a lot more experience with building and shooting than I do. And I know that he has the tools and equipment to do the job. So why would I argue with a bunch of regular joes about the numbers? There's literally zero problem. It's not worth the energy.

 

[Baron23]

So, one of our more diplomatic members () does seem to properly recognize that some in this thread appear have pulled opinions seemly out of their ass.

But we also have what appears to be two mech engineers with actual analysis that seems to indicate that Ted’s 100 ft/lbs (150 max) is far within the tolerance of the material/configuration of this kind of joint and seem to indicate that it’s rather needed for elastic deformation to ensure nothing moves under the stress of firing. This is not to even mention the far greater torque Mike puts on his TacOps rifles and their reputation for first shot precision (and in work guns where first shot is prob the only shot and must be right)

I have a prefit for a CDG that I haven’t screwed on yet and plan to go 100 ft/lbs. Of course if I tear up my bench tryin to get the mofo off in the future then I might well change my mind. Lol

 

[TahoeDust]

Is there any concern of damaging the action when going 100+ ft/lb? In my circumstance it would be an Origin action with a Bugholes action wrench.

 

[Skip1943]

Is there any concern of damaging the action when going 100+ ft/lb? In my circumstance it would be an Origin action with a Bugholes action wrench.

Absolutely none, so long as everything is fixtured solidly, and nothing slips.