Wow am I glad that is over.
- Thread starter Frank Green
- Start date
Thanks for the heads up. I have never heard of that podcast. I don't have TV so i listen to a shit ton of podcast and always looking for a new one
Cheap and easy desicion. $355+$200+$350 for say 4000 rounds vs $355+$350 +$355 +350 for 4000 rounds.
The chambering cost and time to spin up a new barrel especially if its not a prefit will save ALOT of money.
Makes the overall cost per round of something like a Bartlien Carbon Barrel cheaper to shoot over the life of the tube.
I called Bartlein and ordered one of these new barrels the day of the announcement. I got the blank in late December and I chambered it in 6 Dasher to use this coming PRS season. I took left over Dasher ammo with my standard load and fired the first 3 (top picture). I then made an adjustment and fired the next 5 (bottom picture). I then fired 3 at 500 yards with the same dope I usually use and they landed in about a 1.5" group right in the middle of the target.
I'm happy that the new barrel material performs like I'm used to from regular 416R Bartlein barrels.
Now to see how long it lasts.
I'm happy that the new barrel material performs like I'm used to from regular 416R Bartlein barrels.
Now to see how long it lasts.
Are these 400ModBB barrels available with 5r rifling?
Yes. In general Bartlein will do whatever rifling you want if you pay them enough. I just ordered a 1:8.5-1:7.5 LHGT for 6.5 Creedmoor in this material; I’m super excited to not need another barrel for a few years.
Would love to hear the range report on this.
Yes, I have a carbon on the way.
Any other reviews? I'm trying to decide if a CF MOD400BB is worth a 50% premium over a Proof Carbon. I doubt anyone has shot out a MOD400BB to speak about the higher round count factor...
Yeah, $200 over a standard Bartlein Carbon. However, with the MOD400BB, it's $450 more than a Proof Carbon. I assume Bartlein is considered more a premium barrel maker too (over Proof)?
Also curious if the MOD400BB is heavier than the traditional steel material.
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How much are you paying for proof carbon blanks, because I don’t see how a Bartlein is $450 more? The Bartlein and proof carbons are pretty close to one another, and the Hanzo steel is $200 extra.
Edit: A quick search shows the Bartlein is cheaper till you add Hanzo steel option.
Weight difference for same contour is going to be practically negligible. Difference between 4140 and 416 is 0.002-0.004 lbs per cubic inch with 416 being less. Mod is a modified 400 series stainless.
Bartlein is a premium barrel. They do make ammo test barrels for manufacturers too.
I'm comparing the pre-fit option prices at various gunsmiths.
$799 for a Proof Carbon Prefit
$1025 for a Bartlein Carbon Prefit
$1250 for a Bartlein Carbon MOD400BB Prefit
Consider you're getting at least an extra half to full barrel out of the modbb barrel.
Absolutely, which is why I am curious on peoples round count experience with the MOD400BB. If the consensus is 2x+ barrel life, than the $450 premium is well worth it.
FedEx is supposed to deliver my mod400bb aiax 6.5cm pre fit from Dave too!ey today. He charges $950 which is just the 200$ surcharge for the blank.
Who's doing Carbon Proof prefits for 799?
Also the general consensus is the new material is cleaning easier/fouling less. If it's fouling less it should clean easier. That's something we couldn't have planned for and is a bonus/by product.
That doesn't mean you don't have to clean the rifles!!!!!! You still need to clean them!!!!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
That doesn't mean you don't have to clean the rifles!!!!!! You still need to clean them!!!!
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
You’re clearly just saying that because people scraping barrels from poor cleaning lets you sell more barrels
It’s not like you’re operating at insane capacity and lead times are going up or anything.Real talk that’s super interesting. Does it cut cleaner or something?
Hey frank,
random question here as I’m currently welding on a piece of AR400. Why could the AR series of steels not work in barrels? Corrosion? I’m sure it would be hell on your tooling. I’m sure their is a super simple answer to this that your average dumb welder wouldn’t know.
random question here as I’m currently welding on a piece of AR400. Why could the AR series of steels not work in barrels? Corrosion? I’m sure it would be hell on your tooling. I’m sure their is a super simple answer to this that your average dumb welder wouldn’t know.
Cheaper than the cheapest I've seen.
I didn't want to hijack this thread but the carbon pre-fits that Proof Research puts out are $799-$829 depending on what distributor you're buying from.
yes in very specific contour/length/chamber
Your point being what exactly? I'll be happy to buy a very specific contour/length/chamber prefit Bartlein Carbon for $799.
I am looking for a carbon wrapped 22" sendero in 6.5 creedmoor and Proof offers it for $799. & Straightjacket offers that same very specific contour/length/chamber for $1025/$1250 depending on MOD400BB or not. Which brings into question my original post... has anyone shot out a MOD400BB to provide feedback on the round count. As it stands, the MOD400BB is a 50%+ premium over a Proof. If the concenus is 2x+ round count, then I'm going MOD400BB.
Someone grab a hanzo barrel in 300 norma and burn as many 245gr EHs as fast as you can muster them.. 
In all seriousness @Frank Green is there a rough estimate on the percentage of increased barrel life on the new alloy? And i might have missed it, will they be offered turned down and wrapped in carbon fiber? Or would that defeat the purpose?
Suddenly pushing the hell out of a 30 Sherman doesn't seem to have me as worried about barrel life if the gain is even 25-30%
In all seriousness @Frank Green is there a rough estimate on the percentage of increased barrel life on the new alloy? And i might have missed it, will they be offered turned down and wrapped in carbon fiber? Or would that defeat the purpose?
Suddenly pushing the hell out of a 30 Sherman doesn't seem to have me as worried about barrel life if the gain is even 25-30%
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then the proof works for you. not everyone wants exactly what the proof prefits come in compared to custom freebore or different cartridges/length/contour
you might not be saving money doing the mod400bb from a barrel life to cost perspective, but you would be saving in load development
3 proof. 2500 rounds each $2400-2500 in barrels
2 cfw bartlein mod400bb 3750 each, $2500 in barrels
7500 rounds for both combinations at $7500 in ammo costs
$10000 total cost but say 150 less in break in and load development
the further past 50% extra the mod400bb shoots the more the benefit goes to it
Frank,
What's the lead time on the old and new barrels?
What's the lead time on the old and new barrels?
I sent an email to the shop late last week asking this exact same question, and have not heard back yet...
Please don't interpret that as a jab. I am trying to avoid tying up their phone line.
I can tell both of you because I just ordered one....5-6 months.
To your first thought....I'll say more damage is done from improper cleaning then from physically shooting the gun/barrel....that being said....you have to maintain the system or you will at some point end up with problems because you didn't clean the barrel.You’re clearly just saying that because people scraping barrels from poor cleaning lets you sell more barrels
Real talk that’s super interesting. Does it cut cleaner or something?
To your question....it does machine differently. We can tell it's different but nothing that is effecting tooling in a negative way etc...still run your same speeds and feeds like you normally do.
Later, Frank
The phones and emails are off the chart! I do ask everyone to be patient the best you can.
About a week ago....the guys in the office with me started laughing. I asked what was so funny? This was around 4pm. They said the phone hasn't ringed for the last 20 minutes! I said so? They said prior to that they we're timing the phone and the phone was ringing every 3 minutes! No BS!
Thud, No difference! Doesn't matter if you are ordering standard material or the new material.
For general information we are basically quoting 8 months right now. You might get it sooner and as well with other things...depending on caliber/what you are ordering and when you place the order...you could get it in say 6 weeks. Timing can be everything.
In case anyone is thinking and I've been asked the question on the phone now about three times. You guys have enough steel? The answer is yes we are fine. I just ordered another mill run of the Bartlein 400modBB material. I was told 5-6 months for that. Standard steel we already had material ordered for all of 2021. The mill just told me today that they have orders scheduled into next year already and that mill lead times are getting pushed out as of right now.
I'm getting back to work....
Later, Frank
For sure. There’s a huge gulf between cleaning properly and “cleaning” - and when some folks see someone say they need to clean a gun they break out the abrasives.
I wonder if it’s related to grain size, maybe? I’m directionally interested (though not financially interested) in comparing a couple slices of 400MODBB and 416R under a SEM. Smaller grains would presumably result in less trouble with fire cracking and smoother chip creation.
I
For clarity’s sake, do you have 400MODBB for barrels that were ordered last week (with the mill run being anticipated demand), or are those waiting on the mill run?
Also if you wanted to do a run of 400MODBB in 6.5 caliber in left hand gain twists next week that would be wonderful =D
For clarity’s sake, do you have 400MODBB for barrels that were ordered last week (with the mill run being anticipated demand), or are those waiting on the mill run?
Also if you wanted to do a run of 400MODBB in 6.5 caliber in left hand gain twists next week that would be wonderful =D
Phone calls are quick and can answer any question in minutes. Took 5 to get a custom order in.
Well, I figured that I'd keep the phone open for people who were actually ready to order.
No not waiting for the mill run. We have material in stock but we always need to be ahead of the game per say. Don’t ever want to run out of material. It’s the one thing we don’t make. So no material.....no barrels! So I’m/we are always trying to forecast orders/demand. Our steel orders/schedule needs to be out in front of whatever we think is coming in for orders. So if it normally takes us 4 to 5 months to get steel from the mill I’ve already have 6 months or more in house or already on the way. I look at current orders and what we’ve done in the past in order to order steel.
We cannot plan for everything but usually have 99% of what we think we are going to need covered.
Caliber has nothing to do with it. You say 6.5mm but I’ll tell you this....6.5mm, 30cal, 6mm, 224cal and I’ll say 7mm barrels for rifling never stop. They are always running. There is that much work for them. A couple of years ago at one point 6.5mm was like 40% of our production the demand was just so high. Next up is 338 and 50cal. Seems as soon as we pull that tooling out...it’s going back in for one reason or another. Other calibers like 375, 416, 358, 25, 270 run thru cycles at times but not always.
The other thing we deal with is emergency’s.
Due to the amount of request we received thru out last year for 20mm caliber barrels....I did place an order for steel that is 2.625” in diameter as some of those barrels are finishing at 2.5” in diameter. We normally don’t stock material larger than 2.28” diameter. So I put in a order from the mill for that larger diameter material. I’m on 5 months right now and it’s due in anytime.
That's very interesting inside info on Production.
Im guessing military, but what is using 20mm barrels ?
Im guessing military, but what is using 20mm barrels ?
The 20mm is private stuff. No military stuff. I've quoted 20mm ammunition test barrels in the past a couple of times but for what they want for the barrel we have to make a bigger/longer rifling machine and to do like 10pcs every 10 years....not worth it unless someone is willing to put down some serious money. The longest 20mm barrels we've done have been around 53" long finished. We made a run of new made 20mm Lahti barrels for a guy I know that was rebuilding/reactivating a bunch of Lahti anti tank guns in the past. That was the first time we made 20mm barrels. I'll tell you this....the bore finish on those 20mm's was as nice as any other barrel we made and we held them to our standard min spec. tolerances instead of the usual +.002" tolerance on the bore and grooves on those.
The private stuff would be like you calling up to order one to build a bolt gun etc...and a couple of small manufacturers.
Also we've had requests and have done 50cal barrels in 2.5" o.d. in the past as well as 58cal barrels. So again we need larger diameter material.
Can't beat Bartlein, barrel I made payment on Monday arriving today and completed months under quote on a custom order.
What’s the recommended left hand gain twist for 6.5 Creedmoor 22”? I’m thinking 8.5-7.75?... maybe 8.25-7.5? I need to listen to the podcast again but I believe Frank suggests .75” over a full 1”.
