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Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

K

kchustle

Private
Minuteman
May 10, 2011
89
0
41
OP, KS
I am putting together a parts list and I am trying to figure out if the Manners stock is worth the additional money over the B&C for a new guy. Manners is local so I would like to support them but I don't know if I can justify the cost. Can you justify the additional cost for a new bolt action shooter?

Bell and Carlson Medalist M40 with Aluminum Bedding Block System and Adjustable Butt Plate

vs.

Manners T2A or T4A

Thanks
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Depending on the rifle your getting your probably better off with more ammo to practice with or a class or some of the online training here.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depending on the rifle your getting your probably better off with more ammo to practice with or a class or some of the online training here. </div></div>

Front runner is the 700 SPS AAC SD
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Then you have no need to replace the stock right away.

You'll be light years ahead by taking that 250-600 dollars and spending it on ammo and practice.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then you have no need to replace the stock right away.

You'll be light years ahead by taking that 250-600 dollars and spending it on ammo and practice. </div></div>

Yep. If you must have the stock... if budget is really a concern at all, go with the BC.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then you have no need to replace the stock right away.

You'll be light years ahead by taking that 250-600 dollars and spending it on ammo and practice. </div></div>

Yep. If you must have the stock... if budget is really a concern at all, go with the BC. </div></div>

Fair enough. I was told that it was the same 'pilar' bedded hogue stock that came on the standard sps tac (different color) which is world renowned for being flimsy and as a result not free floating the barrel. I just assumed that it was probably necessary to get the accuracy out of the rifle.

A buddy of mine has the standard SPS Tac and can shoot 1 MOA with it so I guess I will see if I can get groups like that out of it when I finally find one. We have only shot for groups at 100 yds though. We both prefer shooting timed drills over shooting for the smallest group.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

It does contact the stock but that can be fixed with 15 seconds and a dremel.

I've yet to see one that wont shoot under an inch in stock form.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kchustle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then you have no need to replace the stock right away.

You'll be light years ahead by taking that 250-600 dollars and spending it on ammo and practice. </div></div>

Yep. If you must have the stock... if budget is really a concern at all, go with the BC. </div></div>

Fair enough. I was told that it was the same 'pilar' bedded hogue stock that came on the standard sps tac (different color) which is world renowned for being flimsy and as a result not free floating the barrel. I just assumed that it was probably necessary to get the accuracy out of the rifle.

A buddy of mine has the standard SPS Tac and can shoot 1 MOA with it so I guess I will see if I can get groups like that out of it when I finally find one. We have only shot for groups at 100 yds though. We both prefer shooting timed drills over shooting for the smallest group.</div></div>

The factory stock on the AAC is very flimsy, just resting mine on the front swivel would cause the barrel to touch. I read what rrflyer said about a dremel, I just wasn't comfident enough to try it. Instead I bought a used 700p take-off from hear on the hide. I cannot atest to the improvement the new stock made since I never shot it prior, but I'm much happier with the new stocks feel over the factory.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Skim bed the B&C stock and spend the extra money on either reloading equipment (if you don't reload) or components (bullets, powder, primers) if you already do.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I just put a BC medalist tactical stock on my rem 700 sps tactical. It feels great, and looks great. One thing, I had to take an air dremel and open up the barrel channel on one side! The barrel was contacting the stock when shooting and was obviously closer to one side of the stock than the other. What I don't know was if this was more the stock's problem or the action? I'm leaning towards stock since it sat pretty evenly in the factory hogue stock. Kind of a PITA but it came out fine and has plenty of clearance now (and it's not obvious).

Overall I like the stock, and it shoots great! But I have to admit the paint/coating whatever it is, looks great (olive), but isn't super durable by any means.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

B&C medalist here as well on my aac-sd. I would love a better one as well, but need more practice before it will do any good for myself.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I have had a SPS Tactical for about 2 mos. I replaced the Hogue with a HS Precision from a 5r take off for $200 delivered. I had thought of the B&C also but am happy with the HS, it was a great upgrade.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

B&C Medalist here also. Had to do a small amount of sanding on barrel channel because of webbing finish on stock. Stock fits great and shoots very well.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Thanks for the replies guys. I am probably going to take a mix of the advice in here.

-Keep the hogue for a while
-Dremel it out
-Bed it

Once I feel like I need it I will buy the Manners. Being in Kansas City area I want to support some of our local businesses since there are several that are known for their quality.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

If you're sure you're going to get a Manners, it would be a good idea to order it now.
I ordered my third one yesterday and the delivery time quoted was 16 weeks.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

If your gonna keep the hogue...


I dremeled the end of the barrel channel out so it would touch. I then took a 3/8's threaded rod....heated it with a torch and sunk it into the plastic ribs in the forearm area under the barrel. After that it hit it with some fiberglass bondo to ad even more stiffness. 20$ or so worth of material and it did away with 95% of the flex both laterally and horizontally.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I was looking at the Houge stock as well, you have to look at which one you buy, one version only has the aluminum running halfway through the stock and costs 100 bucks the other has the aluminum all the way to the end and costs 300 bucks. My issues is a 14 1/2 LOP so I am looking at a Manners for my 700 LTR.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

That B&C is about $250ish? For the love of sanity, Keep your Hogue and try as rrflyer suggests!!! Friends don't let friends throw $250 in the garbage on such things. I have played with a couple B&C Medalists, and both required quite a bit of Dremel & Bedding Love before they were really worth using. Even then, they were certainly nothing to write home about.

Mod the Hogue as rrflyer suggests, and save your money for a Manners. Trust me, there is literally no comparison between the two. Manners is top shelf, end of story. B&C is a waste of time, and money.

Yeah, I got my nomex undies on, go ahead and flame on. Just my .02c, and I will fully stand by my statements. BTW, I am a poor working slob who has to Scrimp and Save for all im worth to buy *ANYTHING*. I currenly own a Savage 111 with a McMillan A5 @ 5lbs fill wt. Care to guess what I had on my rifle right before I finally broke down and bought McMillan? B&C.

My neighbor and I decided to get us each one of them. When we unboxed them and set our actions into them, we noticed mine was off center in the action area, and the forearm area itself was a bit off. On my neighbors, the barrel channel required a lot of dremel love, and the action area was just plain sloppy. Yet, this was a Full Drop In and GO solution, all for the low, low, price of ONLY $250!

A good bit later on I seen the Manners thumbhole stock, and have wanted one ever since, but my McMillan is rock solid. I just can not justify taking it off just because something else caught my eye!
smile.gif
One of these days, I will own a Manners stock!
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

If you have to have a new stock, then do it right and get a Manners or better yet a McMillan. It will just work right, no dremel required.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I couldnt disagree more. I have a number of the Bell and Carlson A3 stocks myself. Yes, the bottom metal has to be fitted and yes the barrel channel has to be opened for a heavy barrel but these stocks fit me fine and my rifles shoot great in them all way out too 1000 yards.

BTW, I do still have a couple of McMillans and have owned several Manners stocks. They are excellent but for best results they often have to be bedded as well.

My 260 AI with a try load @100 yds on a very windy day.
006-2.jpg

007.jpg
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I'll preface this by saying that rrflyer whooped my tail in the last match we were both in. Well pretty much every one whooped me
smile.gif
I had a B&C on my rifle then, and now have a AICS. I have a 700 VTR and the OEM stock was not consistent for me. I did not do what rrflyer did to his though. For me the B&C reduced felt recoil, and I fit much better behind it. The palm swell was also a lot nicer than my OEM chassis. I bought the AICS because I wanted DMB and side sling mounts. Of course ammo and training would help.And trust me I've been shooting the holy crap out of it since my last match. I also dropped in a new trigger which helped me as well. So I agree w/ RR that ammo and training will benifit you, but my overall shooting experience IMO is much better with the AICS and was also better w/ the B&C


Signed

total n00b

Gu354.jpg
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I've had both B&C stocks and a Manners/McMillan.

All I can say is Manners are hands down better and they have some of the best customer service in the industry.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

B&C are excellent quality for their price point. In my opinion they are better quality than H&S Precision stocks.

When you look at Manners, they are in a different price point and constructed in a different way.

If you want a manners, it would be silly to purchase a B&C.

I have several B&C stocks on rifles here. I am getting ready to install a M40 on another rifle. I like the way they feel and the value they offer. You are not going to see an accuracy difference between a B&C, Manners or McMillan when all are mounted up in the same manner.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

IMO it is not even fair to try to compare the two. If you are looking to upgrade, as others have said, take rrflyers advice and work your Hogue over. If you want a real upgrade, then go with Manners.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I'd say Manner's too.

I have used a friends B&C, and while it's a good stock, the Manner's is just worlds apart. Plus their customer service is top notch.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spd90bw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B&C Medalist here also. Had to do a small amount of sanding on barrel channel because of webbing finish on stock. Stock fits great and shoots very well. </div></div>

Same here I really like mine. Do I shoot better hard to say. I do need to practice as much as I can.

But I think buying a rock and a rear bag helped more. I hated fighting those sand bags.

Match ammunition and and good solid rest will improve your shooting a lot right off the bat. or it did mine.

 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Anything wrong with the B&C A5 stock? Or does that rate as low as the rest of the B&C line?
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Nothing wrong with it for the money. It is however in a different class than the Manners or McMillans. I do own all three. I like them all, but don't fail to see the quality difference between them.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong with it for the money. It is however in a different class than the Manners or McMillans. I do own all three. I like them all, but don't fail to see the quality difference between them. </div></div>
Price points aside, can you spell out those differences in greater detail? Forgive me, but I've been working in the engineering field for the past 20+ years, and sweeping generalizations just don't cut it for me.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Dave308,

The stock you have is a few notches up from the 2 I played with. In all honestly, did it fit SPOT ON right out of the box? I am sincerely asking you sir.

Put it this way, after having played with exactly 3 B&C stocks over the years, I most definitely will not buy or trade into another one unless I can drop a barreled action into it and Really LOOK at the fit and finish. If I want a project, I will buy a nice wood stock, or laminate.

Again, I am not trying to be an ass, I really am curious if B&C has "recently" stepped up their game.

Gary
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I run two of the B&C stocks and they are nice for the price. Your comparison isn't really apples to apples. Its like asking whats better, a Vortex PST or USO. One is great for the money but you are limited to how it comes from Vortex; USO is fully customizable to the way you want it.

diriel, mine (700 actions) fit fine but, still needed skim and lug bedding. Bottom metals dropped right in with no issue. Probably just those Savage actions you run being out of whack
wink.gif
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Haha, yeah it very well could be my poor ole Salvage
smile.gif


Recently I have been drooling over those Defiance Machine actions.. damn. I would say Ramen For a Year...but my wife would probably not sign on for that!

Have a good one,
Gary
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I will say this about my B&C A5 it dings easily. I have a small ding on my cheek piece from my bolt sliding back when I carry it with an open bolt.

It is also heavy. I only shoot bench rest with it, so it's no problem for me.

If I decided to take it hunting, I would put my old stock back on.

But I really like it.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

Yeah my McMillan A5 is heavy @ 5lbs fill weight. It is about as solid as a rock. I have managed to collect 1 or 2 dings over the last few years, but those were *WELL* earned
smile.gif


Have a good one,
Gary
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I used a Bell and Carlson A5 for my AAC-SD project. I used CDI bottom metal and AI mags. Had the stock bedded and inlet done by APA. The gun functioned great and shot like a champ. That being said, i ordered a Manners T2A with the mini chassis earlier today. Nothing wrong with the old setup at all, just liked the way the manners handled better.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I'm happy with my bc a2... Only thing I'll upgrade to is XLR or something...
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

First let me say there is no comparison between the quality and feel of a manners verses a B&C. I own 3 T-4’s, a mcmillan a-5, two a-3’s, one HS PSS style and just bought and I am in the process of bedding a Remington Tactical into Bell & Carlson Tactical Medalist A3 w/ the butt hook.

I have had other B&C’s and well... they didn’t really impress me much but either they have changed things or my memory is bad because this new stock is Sweet! IMHO it is much better than the HS it is replacing. That’s judged by fit, feel and internal construction. When you bang on the sides it doesn’t sound hollow like the HS… Stocky’s has them and others for around 218 right now.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

First, Hogue stocks are garbage, I had one that came with my SPS Tac. I shot it once before throwing the stock in the garbage. I was looking at the B&C since I already have them on two other rifles and they work great. Fit and finish was never bad but I bedded them anyway to eliminate any possible problems down the road. McMillan was my next choice but the price of it and a DM trigger guard was off putting. After adding up the prices I decided to go with an AICS and have never looked back. Point is, figure out everything you might need or want and then and figure out what is going to make you happy. Dont compromise or you will always be wondering "what if".
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I run the BC light tactical on my surgeon build and have no problems with it. I have a couple mcmillans in the A2 and A5 models and there is no doubt they are built to closer tolerances but they all got or will get a skim coat anyways.

With reasonable unlimited money I would go with the Manners but budget did matter to me and the BC with more ammo was the direction I went and would do it again.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

If you want a good, affordable upgrade from the flimsy tupperware junk the factory gives you, then you will be well served by a B&C. However, the Manners is just on another level. I own both so no bias here.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I *really* wanted a Manners T2A/T4A for my 10FP...but in the end I couldn't justify the price delta beyond an A2 Medalist given my current skill level. Currently owning another A2 Medalist surely factored into my decision from an ergonomics/standardization standpoint.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I literally just got my b&c a2, and it took me literally 3 minutes to swap my 700 into it. Feels great and completely free floated
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

If you're not sure which way to go then tweak on the factory stock and take your time deciding and saving for replacement. My SPS Tactical was toucing in at least a couple of places when I first got it. Took less than 30 minutes with an exacto knife and a large socket wrapped with sand paper to get that cleaned up. It's not a great stock by any means but it's shooting pretty darn good for me. I think I'm picking up more points by reloading and putting more rounds down range than I would by replacing the stock. When I think I can outshoot the rifle then I'll replace the stock, I'm not there yet.
 
Re: Bell and Carlson vs. Manners

I ordered another Manners last week. Until you experience the difference for yourself there is no need in me, trying to sell someone on the virtues of owning a Manners. As far as price, with current scrap prices, you could literally pick up enough aluminum cans to pay for it, in the 12 weeks it will take before your order is completed. And as they always say, you get what you pay for.
 
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