Gunsmithing Best Action

[Buckoman]

What is the major differences between say a Stiller Tac30 and a Surgeon RSR? Is one prefered over the other and why?

What is the major advantage of the Surgeon 591 over the RSR? Is there something about it that justifies the extra expense for the 591? On the surface my logic dictates that having a removable base would be good say if you wanted to go with a 30 or 40 MOA base for the RSR. Is this not necessary?

 

[Robert Gradous]

Re: Best Action

AS a gun builder, I think that the 591 is as good as it comes. The tac 30 by stiller is great as well as the RSR buy surgeon. I like the one I can get first.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Best Action

The 591 is machined from one piece of billet to include the scope rail and recoil lug, both are integral to the receiver. This alone increases the cost of the 591 as the machining operations/costs are more than the RSR or Tac30.

If asking which one is stronger, the 591 is, no doubt.

 

[Buckoman]

Re: Best Action

Does that extra strength make any noticable difference in the end?

 

[Clark]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Master_Blaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does that extra strength make any noticable difference in the end? </div></div>

I can tell you that if you incrementally overload some handloads in an SKS and in a Ruger #1, you will notice the difference.
The #1 will just wreck the brass, but the SKS firing pin blows out of the bolt.

Modern bolt actions are mostly much stronger that the brass. The action strength is then not a problem, but what happens to the gas and pits or brass when a case fails.

I have overload dozens of guns to see what happens, and I have had very strong guns shoot their extractor toward where the shooter would be.

 

[JJones75]

Re: Best Action

I think that the built on rail and lug adds to the strength as far as ridgity goes not so much as a failure rate for over loaded rounds , I believe that strength comes more from the steel used in the action and barrel plus how well their fitted together

I know of a Lawton 7000 that was severly over pressured with a lapua based round and survived. If sombody had told me what the load was before they shot it I'd have said it would be a life changing experiance , possibly death

 

[BMG50CAL]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Master_Blaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does that extra strength make any noticable difference in the end? </div></div>.

For the normal use no. But for target shooting or real world hardcore use a little.

It comes down to the person if it worth the extra money. for me the answer is yes

 

[BLAWTON]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I know of a Lawton 7000 that was severly over pressured with a lapua based round and survived. If sombody had told me what the load was before they shot it I'd have said it would be a life changing experiance , possibly death </div></div>

That was eddybo here on the hide. He can tell you about it. Another good example is just recently someone loaded a cheytac with 132 grains of RL-15 instead of RL-25. We could beat the recoil lug off the barrel and it grew .01 but the action survived and is working great now.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Master_Blaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does that extra strength make any noticable difference in the end? </div></div>

I think the main reason they went with a one piece rail was to eliminate possible scope base movement. The strength was probably a secondary benefit.

 

[Buckoman]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotAGuru &#8853;</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I know of a Lawton 7000 that was severly over pressured with a lapua based round and survived. If sombody had told me what the load was before they shot it I'd have said it would be a life changing experiance , possibly death </div></div>

That was eddybo here on the hide. He can tell you about it. Another good example is just recently someone loaded a cheytac with 132 grains of RL-15 instead of RL-25. We could beat the recoil lug off the barrel and it grew .01 but the action survived and is working great now.</div></div>

Crap thats one scary story. I'm asking the above questions from the standpoint of budget and best bang for the buck. I don't plan on overloading, but you never know. I was just wondering from the standpoint of quaiity vs one over the other if one was prefered over the other. I'm leaning toward the Surgeon RSR but the the advantage of the STiller Tac30 compared to the RSR is the Sako extractor.

Is the Sako extractor really necessary or another fad of the sales gimic world. What's its advantage?

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Best Action

phoenix machine is now defiancemachine. Also built the nesika actions.
I like the fact his machining quality control makes his bolts and actions interchangeable with no fitting. His bolts are also one piece. He may make a few of
the actions already mentioned. Glen used to compete as well so he has quite a background to lean on in coming up with his designs.

 

[terrygood]

Re: Best Action

I think the answer you are looking for, is it worth it? In reality you will never need anything more than a cleaned up rem 700. The real advantage of the 591 is it eliminates variables in the accuracy equation. F-class, AIAW does this already. The tactical (sniper world) is a little behind. The Desert Tactical is the next step in evolution. All in all you get what you pay for. Spend the money on the 591 and ride a bike to work? You can always sell it later if you have a known builder put it together for you. Get on the group buy from Surgeon.

 

[stiller]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigwheeler</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> phoenix machine is now defiancemachine. Also built the nesika actions.
I like the fact his machining quality control makes his bolts and actions interchangeable with no fitting. His bolts are also one piece. He may make a few of
the actions already mentioned. Glen used to compete as well so he has quite a background to lean on in coming up with his designs. </div></div>

The only actions discussed in this thread are Surgeons and Stillers, and Glenn definately does not build any of them. All of our actions have interchangeable bolts along with most of the other good customs by the way.

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Best Action

Fair enough.

 

[Spuhr]

Re: Best Action

I think that the integral rail is a wonderfull feature that is close to a must have........

When it comes to Stiller I am very satisfied with the quality.
I bougth ten actions at one time that are being used hard at an ammunitionfactory for testing. The requirement from the customer was that all bolts should work in all actions, and that the customer, should be able to switch barrels without fitting.
The whole concept have beening used for more than a year now, a number of barrels have been shoot out and the customer i very satisfied.
The tolerances betwen the actions was very good.

Håkan

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Best Action

You guy's are all wrong....The best action is on the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guy's are all wrong....The best action is on the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana. </div></div>

NYNY, MGM or Excalibur?

 

[allie]

Re: Best Action

theres nothing better than a smooooth action!

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Best Action

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DavidD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guy's are all wrong....The best action is on the corner of Las Vegas Boulevard and Tropicana. </div></div>

NYNY, MGM or Excalibur?</div></div>




'yank 'em and crank 'em and don't stand around to thank 'em.....