Everytime I turn the tube on the rebels are retreating. Almost back to square one. I have to hand it to Gadaffi's commanders, they have adapted quickly. Dress like civilians and drive cars instead of tanks and out flank the rebels. I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces or other group doing some of the fighting for them. What do you think? (not to mention the estimated billion dollars spent on the support already. How much does 199 Tomahawk cruise missles cost?)
Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
- Thread starter garrett4
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Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How much does 199 Tomahawk cruise missles cost?) </div></div>
$500,000 - current production Unit Cost
$1,400,000 - average unit cost (TY$)
From:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/bgm-109.htm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> How much does 199 Tomahawk cruise missles cost?) </div></div>
$500,000 - current production Unit Cost
$1,400,000 - average unit cost (TY$)
From:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/bgm-109.htm
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
Thats all right . Britain is launching a shit ton of Tomahawks as well and they are buying them from us . Good for the economy and job production right
Thats all right . Britain is launching a shit ton of Tomahawks as well and they are buying them from us . Good for the economy and job production right
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
I know it is difficult for citizens of a superpower with the combined arms might capable of crushing any conventional military force to believe anyone can fight anybody without our boots...
I wonder if that is how the French felt about a rag tag bunch of losers who got chased all over their land. While that superpower's troops encamped in the loser's towns for the harsh winters the losers sat in rude huts eating their own shoes.
I guess if Layfette hadnt come over we would still be speaking English
I know it is difficult for citizens of a superpower with the combined arms might capable of crushing any conventional military force to believe anyone can fight anybody without our boots...
I wonder if that is how the French felt about a rag tag bunch of losers who got chased all over their land. While that superpower's troops encamped in the loser's towns for the harsh winters the losers sat in rude huts eating their own shoes.
I guess if Layfette hadnt come over we would still be speaking English
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
Can somebody give me some idea of what the plan is and why we are there?
Can somebody give me some idea of what the plan is and why we are there?
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it is difficult for citizens of a superpower with the combined arms might capable of crushing any conventional military force to believe anyone can fight anybody without our boots...
I wonder if that is how the French felt about a rag tag bunch of losers who got chased all over their land. While that superpower's troops encamped in the loser's towns for the harsh winters the losers sat in rude huts eating their own shoes.
I guess if Layfette hadnt come over we would still be speaking English
</div></div>
Quite possibly. However, The French and the Americans were essentially of the same culture. The folks we are "helping" now would probably just as soon turn around and cut our throats once they accomplish their goals. The French knew who they were dealing with. In my mind, right now, we don't have a good handle on who we are dealing with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it is difficult for citizens of a superpower with the combined arms might capable of crushing any conventional military force to believe anyone can fight anybody without our boots...
I wonder if that is how the French felt about a rag tag bunch of losers who got chased all over their land. While that superpower's troops encamped in the loser's towns for the harsh winters the losers sat in rude huts eating their own shoes.
I guess if Layfette hadnt come over we would still be speaking English
Quite possibly. However, The French and the Americans were essentially of the same culture. The folks we are "helping" now would probably just as soon turn around and cut our throats once they accomplish their goals. The French knew who they were dealing with. In my mind, right now, we don't have a good handle on who we are dealing with.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
The French were not the same culture. The French were bitterly Roman Catholic and most Colonists were Protestant of some sort. We were attempting rid ourselves of a monarchy, like the french were at the time.
As for how soon a throat was cut, we went to war with France in 1789. We turned our backs on the now Republic of France and embraced the King of England (talk about ungrateful sonzabitches!)
Its interesting how we are so quick to declare the 'other guy' quick to cut a few throats when we have cut quite a few ourselves and of course handed knives to tryants that would keep the oil flowing.
Its not a clash of Cultures but a clash of superpower national interest and the interest of other nations, no matter the culture we project on them.
Libya has never been an ally of ours since the cold war but the idea of 'freeing' their oil from a guy we hate must have some oilmen polishing the monkey like fiends!
Oh wait, in the top 5 oil producers, no nukes... GTG to intervene!
It took years for our nation to win independence, I'd say we have got to back away from the microwave and let this cook some. Let them pay for Independence rather than we foot the bill.
I know, crazy talk.
The French were not the same culture. The French were bitterly Roman Catholic and most Colonists were Protestant of some sort. We were attempting rid ourselves of a monarchy, like the french were at the time.
As for how soon a throat was cut, we went to war with France in 1789. We turned our backs on the now Republic of France and embraced the King of England (talk about ungrateful sonzabitches!)
Its interesting how we are so quick to declare the 'other guy' quick to cut a few throats when we have cut quite a few ourselves and of course handed knives to tryants that would keep the oil flowing.
Its not a clash of Cultures but a clash of superpower national interest and the interest of other nations, no matter the culture we project on them.
Libya has never been an ally of ours since the cold war but the idea of 'freeing' their oil from a guy we hate must have some oilmen polishing the monkey like fiends!
Oh wait, in the top 5 oil producers, no nukes... GTG to intervene!
It took years for our nation to win independence, I'd say we have got to back away from the microwave and let this cook some. Let them pay for Independence rather than we foot the bill.
I know, crazy talk.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
Don't know if the untrained can defeat those with training without outside influence.
I'll be prepared to care when we start supporting our fellow citizens in the border states rather than persecuting them for defending their rights. Until then, well God bless you but go do it by yourselves.
Don't know if the untrained can defeat those with training without outside influence.
I'll be prepared to care when we start supporting our fellow citizens in the border states rather than persecuting them for defending their rights. Until then, well God bless you but go do it by yourselves.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
I'd hate to be a bird over there....those rebels are very good at shooting into the air......
I'd hate to be a bird over there....those rebels are very good at shooting into the air......
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The French were not the same culture. The French were bitterly Roman Catholic and most Colonists were Protestant of some sort. We were attempting rid ourselves of a monarchy, like the french were at the time.
As for how soon a throat was cut, we went to war with France in 1789. We turned our backs on the now Republic of France and embraced the King of England (talk about ungrateful sonzabitches!)
.</div></div>
France helping the Colonists was all about Benjamin Franklin & the Treaty of Paris, he was pretty much out of the picture in 1789 (died in 1790).
No comment on current politics...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The French were not the same culture. The French were bitterly Roman Catholic and most Colonists were Protestant of some sort. We were attempting rid ourselves of a monarchy, like the french were at the time.
As for how soon a throat was cut, we went to war with France in 1789. We turned our backs on the now Republic of France and embraced the King of England (talk about ungrateful sonzabitches!)
.</div></div>
France helping the Colonists was all about Benjamin Franklin & the Treaty of Paris, he was pretty much out of the picture in 1789 (died in 1790).
No comment on current politics...
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces or other group doing some of the fighting for them. What do you think? </div></div>
It doesn't matter which side wins. In a few years they'll be fighting us whether it's as a Country or just another terrorist group. It's happened before and one of the terrorist fucks was released by Scotland not to long ago.
Here's what 20 seconds on google can do.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/chronology-pr.cfm
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
As a result, two Libyan intelligence officers are charged with planting the bomb. They are eventually turned over by the Libyan government and tried. The trial, conducted in the Netherlands under Scottish law, begins in May 2000 and ends in February 2001. Abdelbaset Al Mohmed al-Megrahi is convicted and receives a life sentence. The other defendant, Al-Amin Khalifah Fhimah is acquitted.
Another 20 seconds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...say-family.html
Life Sentence?
Freed from his life sentence, the Lockerbie bomber was sent home by the Scots on compassionate grounds because he had 'just three months' to live.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces or other group doing some of the fighting for them. What do you think? </div></div>
It doesn't matter which side wins. In a few years they'll be fighting us whether it's as a Country or just another terrorist group. It's happened before and one of the terrorist fucks was released by Scotland not to long ago.
Here's what 20 seconds on google can do.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/chronology-pr.cfm
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
As a result, two Libyan intelligence officers are charged with planting the bomb. They are eventually turned over by the Libyan government and tried. The trial, conducted in the Netherlands under Scottish law, begins in May 2000 and ends in February 2001. Abdelbaset Al Mohmed al-Megrahi is convicted and receives a life sentence. The other defendant, Al-Amin Khalifah Fhimah is acquitted.
Another 20 seconds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...say-family.html
Life Sentence?
Freed from his life sentence, the Lockerbie bomber was sent home by the Scots on compassionate grounds because he had 'just three months' to live.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
UKD-
As much as the French nobility, especially the women, loved Ben foriegn politics has always been more than just love of the messenger.
France saw an opening to make trouble for its old enemy, England and hopefully distract the Brits from other struggles around the world. These two were locked in a battle of empire around the world and France was losing.
Also covered up by our grade school version of events is France was growing tired of sending gold and supplies to a bunch of amateurs who couldnt win a battle. Ben was very entertaining but it was Saratoga that swung the French into a more active role, not Ben's skill with the ladies.
That should strike a familiar cord with many in here.
Many here overlook that our battle for Independence had far more defeats than victories. However all you have to do is win the last battle.
UKD-
As much as the French nobility, especially the women, loved Ben foriegn politics has always been more than just love of the messenger.
France saw an opening to make trouble for its old enemy, England and hopefully distract the Brits from other struggles around the world. These two were locked in a battle of empire around the world and France was losing.
Also covered up by our grade school version of events is France was growing tired of sending gold and supplies to a bunch of amateurs who couldnt win a battle. Ben was very entertaining but it was Saratoga that swung the French into a more active role, not Ben's skill with the ladies.
That should strike a familiar cord with many in here.
Many here overlook that our battle for Independence had far more defeats than victories. However all you have to do is win the last battle.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces </div></div>
"US and Egyptian special forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told.
An unnamed rebel source related how he had undergone training in military techniques at a "secret facility" in eastern Libya.
He told our correspondent Laurence Lee, reporting from the rebel-stronghold of Benghazi, that he was sent to fire Katyusha rockets but was given a simple, unguided version of the rocket instead.
"He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He didn't say they were sourced from Egypt, but that was their route through," our correspondent said.
"He said these were state-of-the-art, heat-seeking rockets and that they needed to be trained on how to use them, which was one of the things the American and Egyptian special forces were there to do."
The intriguing development has raised several uncomfortable questions, about Egypt's private involvement and what the arms embargo exactly means, said our correspondent.
"There is also the question of whether or not the outside world should arm the rebels, when in fact they [rebels] are already being armed covertly."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">. I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces </div></div>
"US and Egyptian special forces have reportedly been offering covert armed training to rebel fighters in the battle for Libya, Al Jazeera has been told.
An unnamed rebel source related how he had undergone training in military techniques at a "secret facility" in eastern Libya.
He told our correspondent Laurence Lee, reporting from the rebel-stronghold of Benghazi, that he was sent to fire Katyusha rockets but was given a simple, unguided version of the rocket instead.
"He told us that on Thursday night a new shipment of Katyusha rockets had been sent into eastern Libya from Egypt. He didn't say they were sourced from Egypt, but that was their route through," our correspondent said.
"He said these were state-of-the-art, heat-seeking rockets and that they needed to be trained on how to use them, which was one of the things the American and Egyptian special forces were there to do."
The intriguing development has raised several uncomfortable questions, about Egypt's private involvement and what the arms embargo exactly means, said our correspondent.
"There is also the question of whether or not the outside world should arm the rebels, when in fact they [rebels] are already being armed covertly."
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/04/201142172443133798.html
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces or other group doing some of the fighting for them. What do you think? </div></div>
It doesn't matter which side wins. In a few years they'll be fighting us whether it's as a Country or just another terrorist group. It's happened before and one of the terrorist fucks was released by Scotland not to long ago.
Here's what 20 seconds on google can do.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/chronology-pr.cfm
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
</div></div>
If you look back a bit more in history, you would see that there is a pattern that develops, The Libyan leader ordered the Pan AM bombing as retaliation for the US & the UK bombing his house and killing his step daughter (while managing to miss him), which was in turn payback for Lybian involvement in bombing a nightclub in europe and killing a couple US soldiers, which was .... which was ... which was .... And so on.
Just because one may be the dominant superpower on the planet, doesn't mean that if you go to crazy land and kick everyone's rear ends, someone from crazy land won't come over to your place to try to fulfill their blood vengence vow.
I think whichever side wins, somebody or somebody's grandchildren will be looking for payback on the infidels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HillbillyfromAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garrett4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't see how they can win without some sort of Special Forces or other group doing some of the fighting for them. What do you think? </div></div>
It doesn't matter which side wins. In a few years they'll be fighting us whether it's as a Country or just another terrorist group. It's happened before and one of the terrorist fucks was released by Scotland not to long ago.
Here's what 20 seconds on google can do.
http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/chronology-pr.cfm
Dec. 21, 1988 - A bomb destroys Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the Boeing 747 are killed including 189 Americans, as are 11 people on the ground.
</div></div>
If you look back a bit more in history, you would see that there is a pattern that develops, The Libyan leader ordered the Pan AM bombing as retaliation for the US & the UK bombing his house and killing his step daughter (while managing to miss him), which was in turn payback for Lybian involvement in bombing a nightclub in europe and killing a couple US soldiers, which was .... which was ... which was .... And so on.
Just because one may be the dominant superpower on the planet, doesn't mean that if you go to crazy land and kick everyone's rear ends, someone from crazy land won't come over to your place to try to fulfill their blood vengence vow.
I think whichever side wins, somebody or somebody's grandchildren will be looking for payback on the infidels.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
Arabs fighting Arabs so it could go either way. Billy Waugh tried to train 'em back in the '70s and quickly realized they were untrainable. But, as mentioned above, nothing will change.
Arabs fighting Arabs so it could go either way. Billy Waugh tried to train 'em back in the '70s and quickly realized they were untrainable. But, as mentioned above, nothing will change.
Re: Can the Libyan Rebels Win w/o US Boots on ground
That noted military expert Geraldo Rivera, who is "entrenched" with the rioters* in Benghazi, just told on Fox News that if you give the rioters more powerful weapons, they'll only be a danger to themselves.
<span style="font-style: italic">Oh Bummer!</span> has bet his 2012 re-election on the removal of Gadaffi so, if Geraldo is correct, no, they can't win without external reinforcement. And considering what he has at stake, <span style="font-style: italic">Oh Bummer!</span> isn't likely to risk the outcome on a military response from the Frogs or the English.
*Calling them "rebels" gives them too much credit
That noted military expert Geraldo Rivera, who is "entrenched" with the rioters* in Benghazi, just told on Fox News that if you give the rioters more powerful weapons, they'll only be a danger to themselves.
<span style="font-style: italic">Oh Bummer!</span> has bet his 2012 re-election on the removal of Gadaffi so, if Geraldo is correct, no, they can't win without external reinforcement. And considering what he has at stake, <span style="font-style: italic">Oh Bummer!</span> isn't likely to risk the outcome on a military response from the Frogs or the English.
*Calling them "rebels" gives them too much credit
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