Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground Laws

Moe Ron

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I realize these vary by state and we got this guy arrested for just having a gun visible inside his house. I’m in Texas and was reading the law on this. Says I can use deadly force to protect property. So if a mob is outside my house and somebody throws a bottle or whatever and say breaks a window, can I go out and start conversing with them in 12 gauge? Guess it’s kinda murky 🤷‍♂️ If the mob is in your yard WTF?
 

hollowoutadime

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I think in most places, if it is reasonable you fear for your life, you may not get criminally charged. You may well find yourself in civil court with atty fees and a possible financial judgement against you.
 

moaorbust

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There is an old saying that you can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride. The leftists know full well they may not be able to legally convict you but you will be financially ruined in court defending yourself. Make no mistake they know exactly what they are doing on multiple levels. The goal is to silence dissent and move the Overton window.
 

Cheyenne Bodie

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Make no mistake they know exactly what they are doing on multiple levels
Dude they have no fucking clue what day it is. They just fuck so much shit up for everyone and have nothing to lose themselves, which is one of the oldest weapons known to man. Their org does not attract intelligent people, they're all just useful idiots.
 

W54/XM-388

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    Dude they have no fucking clue what day it is. They just fuck so much shit up for everyone and have nothing to lose themselves, which is one of the oldest weapons known to man. Their org does not attract intelligent people, they're all just useful idiots.
    You are confusing the useful rabble of idiots with those pulling the strings who know exactly what they are doing.
     

    jb0311

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    There is an old saying that you can beat the charge but you can’t beat the ride. The leftists know full well they may not be able to legally convict you but you will be financially ruined in court defending yourself. Make no mistake they know exactly what they are doing on multiple levels. The goal is to silence dissent and move the Overton window.
    Sadly this is true. Folks should have insurance if they own firearms. $350/ year is a drop in the bucket if you head to court to prove your innocence. Even if you succeed in the criminal trial there is still civil and many have won the first and still lost the second. Everyone that carries should have this and current events are showing that even semi urban homeowners should as well.
     

    diggler1833

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    I greet everyone who accidentally comes onto my property with a gun...

    ...granted that gun is in a holster and I'm polite and smiling as I give them correct directions to the meth heads houses, but they always see it, and I'll never not be armed.

    Knowing your local laws is the bulk of the battle. Perhaps having carry insurance would make up the rest. I certainly couldn't legally do what I do in many other states.
     

    Forgetful Coyote

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    If you shoot and wound some POS, and it’s ruled self defense but you lose in civil court, how much would the judgment usually be? Just wondering
     

    mcameron

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    1) you don't own anything valuable enough to kill someone over

    2) do not shoot anyone unless your LIFE is in immenent danger.

    I don't give a shit about the life of a thief or vandal.....if they smash a window on my car, then run off and get hit by a bus, I'm going to sit there and watch them bleed out as I pretend I can't find my phone to call 911

    But I'm not about to shoot him over breaking a window....even if the law says I am completely justified in doing so, it's not worth the hassle of being arrested, and going to court over.....lawyer costs alone will far outweigh whatever it was that was stolen or damaged.

    Have insurance, and have security cameras.
     

    moaorbust

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    Dude they have no fucking clue what day it is. They just fuck so much shit up for everyone and have nothing to lose themselves, which is one of the oldest weapons known to man. Their org does not attract intelligent people, they're all just useful idiots.
    The useful idiots are a feature as it helps them disguise their acts and causes us to ignore them. Underestimating your opponent is often fatal and a habit to avoid.

    Keep in mind the core people have been preparing for years and have gotten the media, many politicians, many millions in funding, and have been successful in poisoning national discourse. That’s not just a rabble or accident. That shows intelligent planning. These people are dangerous.
     

    diggler1833

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    1) weeeeelllllllllll, I just don't know about that. You may make a valid point, but I'm different from you and don't care. Their next of kin is going to have to lawyer up too.

    The mental health/security of my family is worth way more than me having to sell off some shit to afford a lawyer.
     

    mcameron

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    1) weeeeelllllllllll, I just don't know about that. You may make a valid point, but I'm different from you and don't care. Their next of kin is going to have to lawyer up too.

    The mental health/security of my family is worth way more than me having to sell off some shit to afford a lawyer.
    Have you looked at what a defense lawyer costs recently....it's not a matter of "selling off some shit" unless you happen to own several houses

    And what do you think is going to have a bigger impact on your family.....a broken window or stolen lawnmowers?.....or their father potentially going to jail on murder charges?

    Also, do you trust current sitting judges enough to place your life in their hands?....what about your average citizen sitting on a jury?
     

    Cheyenne Bodie

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    You are confusing the useful rabble of idiots with those pulling the strings who know exactly what they are doing.
    Trust me, the people "pulling the strings" are just giving them money. BLM does have some semblance of a structure, but Antifa does not. I'm not gonna give the commie shit stains any pointers, but let's just say it's more of a shit show than you might imagine. BLM/Dem radicals have the same problems only to a lesser degree, again not gonna give out any pointers but I'll tell yall that they are funded to do what they do with very little direction otherwise. I'm not just talking out of my ass about this stuff or passing around rumors, and I won't tell you how I know, but I do know this entire movement is basically just a well funded gaggle of fucking morons with a tenuous grasp of reality at large.
     

    MarinePMI

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    I know in California, from experience, if they are on "your threshold" and threatening you, you have the right to defend yourself/shoot them. So, even if you live in an apartment, if they come up a set of stairs that only lead to your apartment, that first step/rung is your threshold. If they are on the walkway of your house, heading to your door with demonstrated ill intent, yep, you can defend yourself.

    It's happened to me twice, when living in a not so great part of town.

    Also had my porch light shot out by the police, as they prepared a breach on a meth head who car jacked a vehicle the next town over, got pursued, bailed out of the vehicle next to the apartment complex, came up my stairs (I wasn't home at the time) and hopped from my stair railing onto my neighbor's balcony. She (single mom) heard a noise, saw the helicopter search light, and ignorantly opened her balcony sliding glass door to see what was going on (unarmed). Perp took her and her two sons hostage with a knife. Cops initially were planning to breach through my bedroom wall, but after I arrived and informed them of the ammo, gun powder and weapons in my place, they decided to go through another neighbor's adjoining wall (see, owning guns does help in other ways :) ). So, they punched a hole in the wall of the neighbor's bathroom (common wall with my neighbors bathroom), and during the ruckus, one of the boys got out. Police pushed a tear gas grenade through the hole in the wall, and when it went off the perp panicked, and tried to smother it. The Mom grabbed the other kid and hightailed it out the front door. SWAT went in frontal and took said perp into custody. No extra holes in him, but he did have some extra dents and "ow-eees".

    ...Meanwhile I spent the night sleeping in my truck in the nearby Wal-mart parking lot, waiting until the 4am breach was done. What a shitty way to spend Thanksgiving Day evening...

    That's still a shitty part of town, but my career bloomed, which meant I no longer had to live in that shit hole. Tweekers and gang bangers...smdh. I guess my "white privilege" didn't protect me from that crap in that shit hole...
     

    diggler1833

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    Have you looked at what a defense lawyer costs recently....it's not a matter of "selling off some shit" unless you happen to own several houses

    And what do you think is going to have a bigger impact on your family.....a broken window or stolen lawnmowers?.....or their father potentially going to jail on murder charges?

    Also, do you trust current sitting judges enough to place your life in their hands?....what about your average citizen sitting on a jury?
    Where I live the law allows for use of deadly force in my house, place of business, place of worship, and even my vehicle.

    The law allows for deadly force to prevent a forceable felony...so yeah, some douche using a weapon to bust any window if mine and harm me or my family qualifies pretty easily. Are they going to walk up and break my window (home or auto) to offer me a Werther's Original? I think not...my dad worked with Reginald Denny of LA riots fame...I know what happens when you comply.

    Where I live we actually have an anti-red flag law...so maybe we're just a wee bit less Lib-tarded than where you are.

    You break into my shop to grand theft an ATV or lawnmower applies too. Just trespassing is going to cost you more since my land is a ranch...I'll throw up a summary at the end of this, but it's a $750 -$2K fine.

    Maybe your position is required in your area? I can certainly understand if that is the case. As for out here in my part of the country...this is the capital of fuck around and find out.

    A super brief summary of self defense laws. See page 43 of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act for more if you want:
    Screenshot_20200917-160957_Samsung Internet.jpg

    Trespassing law summary for ranches in OK:
     

    mcameron

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    Where I live the law allows for use of deadly force in my house, place of business, place of worship, and even my vehicle.

    The law allows for deadly force to prevent a forceable felony...so yeah, some douche using a weapon to bust any window if mine and harm me or my family qualifies pretty easily. Are they going to walk up and break my window (home or auto) to offer me a Werther's Original? I think not...my dad worked with Reginald Denny of LA riots fame...I know what happens when you comply.

    Where I live we actually have an anti-red flag law...so maybe we're just a wee bit less Lib-tarded than where you are.

    You break into my shop to grand theft an ATV or lawnmower applies too. Just trespassing is going to cost you more since my land is a ranch...I'll throw up a summary at the end of this, but it's a $750 -$2K fine.

    Maybe your position is required in your area? I can certainly understand if that is the case. As for out here in my part of the country...this is the capital of fuck around and find out.

    A super brief summary of self defense laws. See page 43 of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act for more if you want:
    View attachment 7426159

    Trespassing law summary for ranches in OK:
    ....did you actually bother to read what i wrote?......or are you just trying to look for reasons to grease someone?


    it could be 100% legal to shoot someone for stealing your lawn mower......you are still going to be arrested....you are still going to court.....you are still going to have to take out a mortgage to afford a lawyer.

    cops are not gonna just show up and go "yup good shoot, nothing to see here"........you ARE going for a ride.


    is shooting someone and going through the courts to HOPEFULLY be acquitted worth the $2000 lawnmower that insurance will cover?
     
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    BytorJr

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    @MarinePMI good story there!! I remember driving home talking on phone to a good buddy of mine. I turned to go into my Orlando apartment (see where this is going?) and had been mentioning to him I'd seen 4-5 cop cars on way to the street on which I turn. Then I turned...holy shit!!!!!! about 7 more cop cars. Drove into my apartment...3 at gates. Drove to my unit (townhouse), 3-4 more. Got out, looked around like WTF. Went looking around a bit (because I'm an idiot).

    All of a sudden a helicopter is hovering about 15 feet over the apartments by the swimming pool. I rush to get the little kids playing on tennis court the hell away from there, about the time I turned from shooing them off, I turn around I think somebody had rappelled out of the helicopter, and there were 3 cops slamming this combination rocket scientist/neurosurgeon against the mail boxes...10 feet from me. I only saw the perp jump fence. Still have no idea where cops came from. I left Orlando about 6 months later. Fortunately, no children were hurt and the thug, I mean rocket scientist/neurosurgeon was taken to jail.

    I got real familiar with the Halo-Sun on the night patrols. Cops I knew were like...dude, you know other than Windermere, you are surrounded by the worst neighborhoods in all of Orlando...move or be super diligent. On a positive note...we had a lot of Brazilian women in the area ;).
     
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    MarinePMI

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    @MarinePMI good story there!! I remember driving home talking on phone to a good buddy of mine. I turned to go into my Orlando apartment (see where this is going?) and had been mentioning to him I'd seen 4-5 cop cars on way to the street on which I turn. Then I turned...holy shit!!!!!! about 7 more cop cars. Drove into my apartment...3 at gates. Drove to my unit (townhouse), 3-4 more. Got out, looked around like WTF. Went looking around a bit (because I'm an idiot).

    All of a sudden a helicopter is hovering about 15 feet over the apartments by the swimming pool. I rush to get the little kids playing on tennis court the hell away from there, about the time I turned from shooing them off, I turn around I think somebody had rappelled out of the helicopter, and there were 3 cops slamming this combination rocket scientist/neurosurgeon against the mail boxes...10 feet from me. I only saw the perp jump fence. Still have no idea where cops came from. I left Orlando about 6 months later. Fortunately, no children were hurt and the thug, I mean rocket scientist/neurosurgeon was taken to jail.

    I got real familiar with the Halo-Sun on the night patrols. Cops I knew were like...dude, you know other than Windermere, you are surrounded by the worst neighborhoods in all of Orlando...move or be super diligent. On a positive note...we had a lot of Brazilian women in the area ;).

    The funny thing was, it made the national news. The next week, I was back in D.C., working with a government customer and he said "Hey, did you see that car jacking hostage thing in your home town?" LOL! The look on his face was priceless when I responded, "Yep. That was my next door neighbor." He had that "No fucking way!?!?!" look on his face...
     

    diggler1833

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    ....did you actually bother to read what i wrote?......or are you just trying to look for reasons to grease someone?


    it could be 100% legal to shoot someone for stealing your lawn mower......you are still going to be arrested....you are still going to court.....you are still going to have to take out a mortgage to afford a lawyer.

    cops are not gonna just show up and go "yup good shoot, nothing to see here"........you ARE going for a ride.


    is shooting someone and going through the courts to HOPEFULLY be acquitted worth the $2000 lawnmower that insurance will cover?
    Perhaps in your defense you overlooked the part on my original post where I suggested carry insurance as making up the rest of a good plan? It's not a license to 'grease' someone as you stated...but it helps protect you just a little bit.

    As far as jail, I'd have to take a trip if the dude was coming at me with a knife if I apparently lived in your area...so...

    I'm out of energy for you at this point man...so best of luck to you and I'll take my chances.

    ***Edited to add: this is of course of I have to use deadly force...not because I simply want to***
     
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    Cheyenne Bodie

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    I'll file this under laws I don't even read because I don't give a fuck. Somebody/bodies run up on me while I'm in my own shit they are getting shot in the damn face if I gotta shoot at all. Back, front, left, right, on facetime, on periscope, hand on the bible with a protest permit from Trump himself— IDGAF. If I gotta shoot I'm dropping everyone, and if I'm at home nobody gonna see shit but me.
     
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    eastexsteve

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    I realize these vary by state and we got this guy arrested for just having a gun visible inside his house. I’m in Texas and was reading the law on this. Says I can use deadly force to protect property. So if a mob is outside my house and somebody throws a bottle or whatever and say breaks a window, can I go out and start conversing with them in 12 gauge? Guess it’s kinda murky 🤷‍♂️ If the mob is in your yard WTF?
    I think if you read Texas Penal Code, it's a bit more complicated than that. When it comes to using deadly force to protect personal property, read Title 2, Chapter 9, Subchapter D, Section 9.42.
     
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    Do-nothing

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    Stuff can be replaced, life can't be. If I am in fear for my life or that of a loved one, I will shoot you and I will aim to kill you. The last thing I want is for your worthless hind-parts sitting in a wheelchair before some "poor-me" civil jury drooling all over your self. All the while your attorney is telling that jury how you had turned your life around, found Jesus, and you were about to start a new job as a rocket surgeon so you could support your 11 children by 8 different women. Of course said mothers would all be in court as your character witnesses. As for my sorry tail, I had gone to Walmart armed with a weapon of war looking for trouble and shot you for no reason, when all you were doing was asking me for directions to the nearest Baptist church. (Never mind the stolen Glock you were packing.). I am seriously considering carry insurance. While some of what I posted above was meant in jest, if you shoot someone, your life as you know it will change forever. If you don't go to jail, you will be sued in civil court, or both.
     

    jrhtx

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    Read what this man is saying over and over until you get it. Personal property is not worth what you will pay in legal fees and most likely will also lose your job in todays world. If they breach your house, that's different.

    In Texas you can shoot someone after dark if they are breaking into your car. Does that mean you should? Maybe if you left your government laptop inside with "Top Secret" information on it. If not, is it worth shooting someone?

    Look at the news today. A man was just arrested for being seen with a shotgun in his window as BLM surrounded his house because he had a Trump flag flying. He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't even go outside (per the story). But I bet it's going to cost him close to $100k+ to get out of it, if he can.

    Also remember when you get to prison and they pass out your shower package, they probably just ran out of soap on a rope.


    ....did you actually bother to read what i wrote?......or are you just trying to look for reasons to grease someone?


    it could be 100% legal to shoot someone for stealing your lawn mower......you are still going to be arrested....you are still going to court.....you are still going to have to take out a mortgage to afford a lawyer.

    cops are not gonna just show up and go "yup good shoot, nothing to see here"........you ARE going for a ride.


    is shooting someone and going through the courts to HOPEFULLY be acquitted worth the $2000 lawnmower that insurance will cover?
     

    hunter1959

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    Sadly this is true. Folks should have insurance if they own firearms. $350/ year is a drop in the bucket if you head to court to prove your innocence. Even if you succeed in the criminal trial there is still civil and many have won the first and still lost the second. Everyone that carries should have this and current events are showing that even semi urban homeowners should as well.
    for the gun owner, and certainly the concealed carry permit holder, USCCA is the only act in town to stand with you in the event of either court action.... I pay $35 per month, and it is one of the best investments (along with your house, your education, your self defense and your family) that you can lay your money on... get it, well worth it, and the peace of mind is priceless...
     

    eastexsteve

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    for the gun owner, and certainly the concealed carry permit holder, USCCA is the only act in town to stand with you in the event of either court action.... I pay $35 per month, and it is one of the best investments (along with your house, your education, your self defense and your family) that you can lay your money on... get it, well worth it, and the peace of mind is priceless...
    Just a question here. If you have to call USCCA, do they have a special team of attorneys, or do they just try to contract out to someone local?
     

    Powder_Burns

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    I’m not a lawyer but I stayed at a holiday inn express last night.
    Castle doctrine applies inside your vehicle or your home. Don’t think that defense would fly in court if you shot someone in your front yard. I would research the statutes pertaining to this for your home state, county, city, etc.
    Let law enforcement sort it out, no reason to risk life and liberty when someone else will get paid to deal with that headache.
     

    MarinePMI

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    It's all about your "threshold", not your home or yard.

    You ever wonder why the wealthy have walls and a gate? Because that legally moves their "threshold" to the gate, since it leads only to the home (and not a short cut across your property to another destination).

    Hence why buying a home with a "courtyard" that has a front gate, extends your "threshold" to that gate. It leads nowhere but to your front door. It's always smart to gate your driveway, or have a home with a gated courtyard if possible.
     

    eastexsteve

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    It's all about your "threshold", not your home or yard.

    You ever wonder why the wealthy have walls and a gate? Because that legally moves their "threshold" to the gate, since it leads only to the home (and not a short cut across your property to another destination).

    Hence why buying a home with a "courtyard" that has a front gate, extends your "threshold" to that gate. It leads nowhere but to your front door. It's always smart to gate your driveway, or have a home with a gated courtyard if possible.
    Just to expand upon what you stated, at least in Texas, it seems to depend upon what county you live in, along with the prosecutors and judges. Even though Texas law is very much in favor of the resident/homeowner/landowner, liberal leaning judges and prosecutors will try and bend the law into a prosecution against you. I thank God I don't live in a place like Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, or Houston. I knew I was living in the right place when the local sheriff once asked me:

    Sheriff: "Do you own any guns?"
    Me: "Sure."
    Sheriff: "Good, because we can't really protect you out here on the fringe of the county."

    Although, when I once had to call the sheriff's department because of some belligerent armed trespassers, they were here in about 6 minutes with guns drawn. The perps were complaining about how I was threatening their lives. They changed their tune once those deputies got hold of them.

    I later heard that the local judge had a policy. She wouldn't allow prosecution of anyone on any type of gun possession crime as long as they weren't committing a crime or had no criminal history. She ran every year for re-election unopposed.

    Yep, I live in the right county.