There is some german nato milsurp currently on the market that has copper-nickel plating over a steel jacketed bullet...after googling the topic...the net is that there is some concern that the residue left behind can become an instigater to barrel corrosion. Most of the information is old as there was some indication that the bullet jacket material was used as early as WWI(the ammo currently offered is 90s' production). Is there any current information regarding cleaning products for nickel removal or is it really a big deal at all....
- Thread starter mocos
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Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
I would think that there is a good change for galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals. It's a common problem I've seen in aircraft were two parts mate together and are not of the same alloy or metal type. Older milsurp had corrosive primers. Any non US ammo could have corrosive primers, you have to be careful. All US milsurp ammo, starting in the early 50's, went away from corrosive primers. I've heard German DAG ammo is good but there was a another, and I don't remember the head stamp, had serious problems with misfires and accuracy. You say fromthe 90's is this 223 or 308 ammo? The ammo I'm thinking about was all 308. Donald
I would think that there is a good change for galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals. It's a common problem I've seen in aircraft were two parts mate together and are not of the same alloy or metal type. Older milsurp had corrosive primers. Any non US ammo could have corrosive primers, you have to be careful. All US milsurp ammo, starting in the early 50's, went away from corrosive primers. I've heard German DAG ammo is good but there was a another, and I don't remember the head stamp, had serious problems with misfires and accuracy. You say fromthe 90's is this 223 or 308 ammo? The ammo I'm thinking about was all 308. Donald
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
thanx don
dynamit nobel 308 147 gr fmj berdan....bullets are silver/grey in color..like new ...only shot 4 rds for effect...little bit stiffer than south african....accuracy...potentially very good to excellent...did .75-ish 50yds prone no pod off my elbows...out of a winchester 70 featherweight...then cleaned it with kroil, then bore tech then mobil 1.....did that get it all...?
thanx don
dynamit nobel 308 147 gr fmj berdan....bullets are silver/grey in color..like new ...only shot 4 rds for effect...little bit stiffer than south african....accuracy...potentially very good to excellent...did .75-ish 50yds prone no pod off my elbows...out of a winchester 70 featherweight...then cleaned it with kroil, then bore tech then mobil 1.....did that get it all...?
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
cupro-nickel bullets are copper based so i would think any copper cleaner should work.
cupro-nickel bullets are copper based so i would think any copper cleaner should work.
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
that's exactly the "problem"...the articles I managed to scrounge up indicated that the copper was removed but left the nickel behind? I am guessing that the copper solvent dissolves the copper but not the nickel and subsequently the nickel is left in the bore...
think I'll try a different tact and repost this in another way.
that's exactly the "problem"...the articles I managed to scrounge up indicated that the copper was removed but left the nickel behind? I am guessing that the copper solvent dissolves the copper but not the nickel and subsequently the nickel is left in the bore...
think I'll try a different tact and repost this in another way.
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
don in sc
the galvanic response you mentioned ...was the final result essentially "rust"?.....and would that apply to a stainless barrel to some degree?
don in sc
the galvanic response you mentioned ...was the final result essentially "rust"?.....and would that apply to a stainless barrel to some degree?
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
"then cleaned it with kroil, then bore tech then mobil 1.....did that get it all...? "
Not likely. a few rounds would not leave much behind though and further firing of copper projectiles should help remove residue. Did you use a brush? Solvent with brushing is often not that effective. It will only work on the exposed layer, brushing breaks this layer up and removes the layer some solvents leave which stops further action.
"then cleaned it with kroil, then bore tech then mobil 1.....did that get it all...? "
Not likely. a few rounds would not leave much behind though and further firing of copper projectiles should help remove residue. Did you use a brush? Solvent with brushing is often not that effective. It will only work on the exposed layer, brushing breaks this layer up and removes the layer some solvents leave which stops further action.
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
I try not to use a bore brush and if I do, it's a nylon one. This bore tech brand seems to be very effective in removing copper fouling without having to use a brush. I verified it by using a "foul out" after cleaning my AR with boretech and the light went on immediately when I turned it on. I don't think the foul out will remove nickel because the solution it comes with is for copper....there is a different solution for lead. I guess my next step is to contact Birchwood Casey and see if they can shed some light on my inquiry.
I try not to use a bore brush and if I do, it's a nylon one. This bore tech brand seems to be very effective in removing copper fouling without having to use a brush. I verified it by using a "foul out" after cleaning my AR with boretech and the light went on immediately when I turned it on. I don't think the foul out will remove nickel because the solution it comes with is for copper....there is a different solution for lead. I guess my next step is to contact Birchwood Casey and see if they can shed some light on my inquiry.
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
I would look for something with these chemicals in it... http://books.google.com/books?id=TphJAAA...;q=&f=false ....page 29, read the instructions throughly and USE AT YOUR OWN RISK ! That recipe is from the year 1909 !
I would look for something with these chemicals in it... http://books.google.com/books?id=TphJAAA...;q=&f=false ....page 29, read the instructions throughly and USE AT YOUR OWN RISK ! That recipe is from the year 1909 !
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
Here is Ammoman's explaination; 75% copper
Cupronickel: (sometimes incorrectly written as "Cupernickel" or "Coppernickel") is an alloy of copper that contains nickel and strengthening elements, such as iron and manganese. It is highly resistant to corrosion in seawater, because its electrode potential is adjusted to be neutral with regard to seawater. Because of this, it is used for piping, heat exchangers and condensers in seawater systems as well as marine hardware, and sometimes for the propellers, crankshafts and hulls of premium tugboats, fishing boats and other working boats. A more familiar common use is in silver-coloured modern circulation coins. A typical mix is 75% copper, 25% nickel, and a trace amount of Manganese. In the past true silver coins were debased with cupronickel. Despite high copper content, the color of cupro-nickel remarkably is silver.
Here is Ammoman's explaination; 75% copper
Cupronickel: (sometimes incorrectly written as "Cupernickel" or "Coppernickel") is an alloy of copper that contains nickel and strengthening elements, such as iron and manganese. It is highly resistant to corrosion in seawater, because its electrode potential is adjusted to be neutral with regard to seawater. Because of this, it is used for piping, heat exchangers and condensers in seawater systems as well as marine hardware, and sometimes for the propellers, crankshafts and hulls of premium tugboats, fishing boats and other working boats. A more familiar common use is in silver-coloured modern circulation coins. A typical mix is 75% copper, 25% nickel, and a trace amount of Manganese. In the past true silver coins were debased with cupronickel. Despite high copper content, the color of cupro-nickel remarkably is silver.
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
It isn't the cupronickel...but the corrosive primers used in some foreign ammo manufacturers. Clean with a water based cleaner first then worry about the copper. Lots of folks use Windex as the first cleaning agent. The old Armory Bore Solvent used a mixture that had water plus water soluable oils for just that reason. JMHO
It isn't the cupronickel...but the corrosive primers used in some foreign ammo manufacturers. Clean with a water based cleaner first then worry about the copper. Lots of folks use Windex as the first cleaning agent. The old Armory Bore Solvent used a mixture that had water plus water soluable oils for just that reason. JMHO
Re: cleaning after shooting cupro-nickel bullets
DAG and MEN are without a shadow of a doubt NON CORROSIVE. You will not find ANY NATO spec ammo that is corrosive. The only 7.62 surp that IS corrosive that has been imported in the last 5 years is S&B and possibly POF. Germany makes better service grade 7.62 than we do.
DAG and MEN are without a shadow of a doubt NON CORROSIVE. You will not find ANY NATO spec ammo that is corrosive. The only 7.62 surp that IS corrosive that has been imported in the last 5 years is S&B and possibly POF. Germany makes better service grade 7.62 than we do.
