Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

[Bluesop7]

Im new to reloading and have only thus far loaded a total of about 50 rounds of 30-30 for another rifle and didnt have any trouble whatsoever. I got my brass prepped, primed, put powder in and went to seat the bullets and this is what I got. I am using 308 winchester brass never fired, and sierra 168GR bullets.

I am using a lee bullet seater to load this 308 ammo. I screwed the die in until it touched the shell holder then 1/4 turn more and locked it in. If I just pulled the lever until I met some resistance (not until shell holder was touching die but probably 1/8" short) it would seat the bullet fine. As you can see from the picture I was able to get one quite a bit further in but then thought I would try and fully pull the lever since the bullet was already started into the neck. If I pulled it until the shell holder touched the die, this is what I got. Is this a bad die or am I just doing something wrong? Any thoughts?

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

I think I may have figured it out. I got the pacesetter die set and apparently the bullet seater puts on a crimp, whereas I should be using the dead length bullet seater die which does not place a crimp. Did not even realize they had two different types of bullet seater dies. So much for goin to the range tomorrow with some new handloads.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Simple solution....screw the die in until it touches the shell holder, then back it out 1 turn.Now when you seat a bullet you won't bottom the neck on the collet.

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Ha, now why didnt I think of that. Appreciate the help. Sometimes the most simple solutions seem to escape me. I'll give it a try.

 

[Oodin]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Yup, back out the die 1 revolution, use the knob on top to control the bullet seating depth.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Those ARE some 'heavy duty' crimps!

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

If you ever need an ultra crimp now you know how to get one!

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Well your suggestion worked. Got my first box of 308 loaded. One thing that was a bit disturbing though, was that I checked the OAL of each of the 20 rounds. I was shooting for 2.216" which is 0.01" off the lands (to ogive). From what I measured I was getting at a very low of 2.212" on up to 2.219" at the highest. Just curious if this is about what everyone else gets or if its some sort of problem with the die, method of seating (not sure how this would be possible but who knows), or perhaps with the bullets themselves. Like I said, just curious if this is about the variance that everyone else gets or if this is abnormal and I need to fix something (168GR SMK).

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

I may be wrong, but I think that variation is caused by imperfections in the tip of the bullet.You will probably need what is called a meplat trimmer to get them all perfect.I don't think those few thousanths will make a measurable difference.

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

All measurements were taken from the ogive using hornady's comparator. I thought measuring from the ogive would eliminate the variables associated with the variances of the meplat?

 

[Nate O.]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

couple things that I can think would cause that.

1-Uneven neck tension from one case to another.

2-Running a commpressed load.

Whether you FL or neck size your new brass before you load it, a little lube on the inside of the necks go's along way. without it and a rough expander, you'll get different neck tension.

Try it with your next batch.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

I was seating some 55gn vmax today on progressive and had this happen a few times. It happens with flat based bullets if you dont chamfer the necks, and if youre not super careful when seating to line it up perfectly....which is difficult to do when youre trying to pump out some rounds on a progressive. I went through and chamfered all the cases and never had a problem again.

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Nate, do you mean put lube in the neck before seating the bullets or just when resizing? I assume just when resizing but thought I would ask.

As far as a compressed load goes, I loaded 42.0 GR of reloader 15. These rounds are meant to be used for barrel break in and sighting in the scope. The powder, by looking, was about a 1/4 of the way up the shoulder. Would you consider that compressed?

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Well...I might not have chamfered the cases...sometimes I get too lazy for my own good. Got some a couple things on the way in the mail to chamfer as well as uniform primer pockets etc. I've gone this far might as well do it completely right.

I just kinda put the bullet on top of the case and pressed it up in there with no real concern as to how straight I placed it on top of the mouth. Does it help with runout, etc...to place the bullet on the mouth as straight as possible? I figured that was a function of the die and wouldnt really matter how I put the bullet on there.

 

[Nate O.]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Read this, you'll like it.

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rebel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well...I might not have chamfered the cases...sometimes I get too lazy for my own good. Got some a couple things on the way in the mail to chamfer as well as uniform primer pockets etc. I've gone this far might as well do it completely right.

I just kinda put the bullet on top of the case and pressed it up in there with no real concern as to how straight I placed it on top of the mouth. Does it help with runout, etc...to place the bullet on the mouth as straight as possible? I figured that was a function of the die and wouldnt really matter how I put the bullet on there. </div></div>

I was speaking simply of crushing the cases, the lee seater dies are pretty good, but they dont do quite as good a job as other higher end dies of straightening the bullet before it gets seated. If you are seating flat base bullets, making sure it is on there real straight will just help to not crush the case if you dont chamfer the necks.

I was loading up a quick 500 for a friend with virgin winny brass and hoping to not have to chamfer...after 4 crushed cases I decided i had to.

 

[Cheech]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Been there, done that...

I'm pretty sure the instructions say to raise the ram with a case in the shell holder then screw the seating die in until you feel resistance from the shell then lower the ram and adjust the die down for desired crimp. I don't believe you are supposed to screw it down until it touches the shell holder. It's just a seater and you're not shaping the case at all so no reason to fully engulf the case and touch the shell holder.

If the die is hitting the shell holder you are crushing the case by running it into the die further than intended. Only the sizer die needs to fully engulf the case and touch the shell holder.

Cheers

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cheech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Been there, done that...

I'm pretty sure the instructions say to raise the ram with a case in the shell holder then screw the seating die in until you feel resistance from the shell then lower the ram and adjust the die down for desired crimp. I don't believe you are supposed to screw it down until it touches the shell holder. It's just a seater and you're not shaping the case at all so no reason to fully engulf the case and touch the shell holder.

If the die is hitting the shell holder you are crushing the case by running it into the die further than intended. Only the sizer die needs to fully engulf the case and touch the shell holder.

Cheers </div></div>

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.

You don't set up a seating die the same way you do a sizing die.

Remove seating stem to be sure nothing binds and unscrew the body from the press, a good amount.

Put a sized case in the shellplate/holder.

Raise ram with seating die body still out.

Slowly screw the seating die body down until you feel the 'crimp step' contact the case mouth.

Once you have contacted the case mouth, unscrew the die body X, Y or Z turns, whichever floats your boat and set the die body's locking ring.

Reinsert your seating stem and go to town.

CAVEAT:

Back in early '09, I received two 500ct batches of Winchester 308 from Midway for two different friends. I had my Hornady Inline seating die set up properly, but I kept crunching some shoulders like the OP, however I couldn't figure out what the deal was.

I checked the insides of the necks, as they looked to be a bit rough on their surfaces, so I ran my Redding carbide button through all of them.

Still crushed one, or two.

I then took my seating die out and took it apart, cleaned it and reinstalled it, but no dice, another one, or three crushed.

I miced all the bullets, they were fine. I miced the inside of the necks, they looked fine.

I was at a loss and kept on until I put a case in to prime it and just happened to be focusing on the case neck proper. I noticed it was unusually long, so I measured it and the case proper.

I was getting 2.043" for a case length and even though the seating die's crimp step was turned back enough, it wasn't enough to offset the abnormal and freakishly long necks.

I went through 700 pieces of the 1000 and found about 15 of them were deformed with longer necks.

Ya never know until you know, so keep an eye on the necks.

Chris

 

[Cheech]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Good reason to atleast check/trim new brass if not size it.

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Screwing out the die worked as you can tell from my ammo pic. Worked like a champ. I do think for the rest of them though I will throw them on the trimmer just to make sure and be safe.

 

[Bluesop7]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

Well all cases were right at min trim length so I guess Im good there. Im not chasing uptmost in accuracy right now. I want to shoot a couple hundred rounds through it so I can really get comfortable with the new gun and then start loading for as accurate as I can get.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

If my eyes are seeing correct from your blurry pics there is a ring around the bullet about 1/4" down from tip???? If that is the case your cheapy Lee seater doesn't seat from a reliable and consistent part of the bullet. The tips from ogive to very tip vary sometimes considerably on SMK's. Thus you are getting the results of that inconsistency in your OAL or even your base to ogive length.

You will need a bullet seater that seats off the ogive to get real consistent OAL. Some cheapy seaters also just push on the very tip to seat and some down a bit. If the bullet diameter aheand of ogive is .001 smaller then the seater extends down a bit further and vice versa. Hope that makes sense and helps???

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[DBohn]

Re: Crushed shoulder when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those ARE some 'heavy duty' crimps! </div></div>

Heavy Duty to say the least! Those crimps are out of this world! Use the seater stem and not the die. Live and learn, we've all had our mishaps in reloading. Learn from your mistakes and keep shooting!