- Thread starter Cold_Bore_88
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Other than slightly thicker recoil lug in vector yes.
Also if anyone wants my mcs-ta pictured earlier pm me, just ordered a j Allen.
Will someone please explain the statement about Timney triggers and light strikes? What are the mechanics?
At the risk of oversimplifying, it's the trigger top sear. The trigger top sear engages the bolt cocking piece. The cocking piece is attached to the firing pin. When cocked, the trigger top sear holds the cocking piece rearward; i.e., cocked.
When the trigger is pulled, the top sear drops and releases the cocking piece/firing pin. The issue is how far rearward the trigger top sear holds the cocking piece/firing pin. This distance is the pin fall.
If the top sear does not hold the cocking piece rearward sufficiently, the pin fall will be too short and when the firing pin strikes the primer, it will not have enough energy to cause ignition.
Several action manufacturers have found that Timney triggers (at least certain models) will not hold the cocking piece/firing pin rearward enough for reliable primer ignition. I personally had light primer strikes with a Timney 2 stage trigger on a Badger M2013. Badger advised they do not recommend Timney triggers. After several calls to Timney, and conflicting information, I was able to obtain a replacement top sear which corrected the condition. It did however take additional firing pin travel adjustments to fully resolve.
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Great response, thank you. And very interesting. I have Timney triggers on R700 receivers and they work fine. I am planning to get a custom action (leaning Curtis Axiom at the moment) and was hoping to use my current Timney trigger. I'll try it, of course, to see how it goes. I was hoping to spare the expense of a new trigger.
If the Timney works well in the R700, it seems strange that it is less compatible in several custom actions.
I had a timney ce 2 stage on my vector and switch to a b&a tac sport. Performance was very noticeable
Has anyone had issues with their Vectors yet? I’ve only had mine for a short time, but I’ve already had a few problems. I have a 308 bolt and a 223 bolt. Recently the 223 bolt quit extracting the fired brass and I had to manually pull out the brass after every shot. I inspected the bolt and noticed that the extractor claw had some free play to it. If I shook the bolt in my had I could hear the extractor flopping around. I pulled the extractor off and checked for any issues, but didn’t find any major issues, other than the spring looked a little weird. I’ll attach a picture of the spring. I assumed this was the cause of he problem, so I got a replacement extractor from Curtis Custom. While waiting for the replacement parts I switched back to my 308 bolt. After a while my 308 bolt developed the same problem. So I now had 2 faulty bolts right before a regional match and had to switch back to my trusty RPR which ran without any issues. Once I received the new extractor I compared it to the old one and it seemed to have a longer and better spring. I also noticed that old extractor’s jaw appeared to bent open ever so slightly. After installing the new extractor, the 223 bolt ran great for 25 rounds before going to another regional match. I shot the first two stages of the match without issues, but that had extraction issues on all 8 of the remaining stages. On the last stage I had to manually extract almost all of the shots. After the match I checked the bolt for free play, but it didn’t seem to have any this time and the jaw didn’t appear to be bent outward, but that’s pretty hard to discern on such a small piece. So now I’m back to having 2 faulty bolts.
Sorry if this is a long post, but has anyone else had extractIon issues with their vectors? I’m wondering if their extractors are made from a weaker material than other brands or if their is some other issue. I think I might have to switch to an action that is more reliable if this continues to be an issue.
Sorry if this is a long post, but has anyone else had extractIon issues with their vectors? I’m wondering if their extractors are made from a weaker material than other brands or if their is some other issue. I think I might have to switch to an action that is more reliable if this continues to be an issue.
No extraction issues but pressure signs from nowhere with with previously developed loads that showed zero pressure and new loads that are under max. New loading of 6cm with 39.2 grains of H4350 is showing ejector marks whilst cratering CCI 450 primers. A prior load of 41.4 grains of H4350 which barely grew the brass before now gives me a sticky bolt. If it was 100 out I would understand but this was in 68 degree weather. Alpha brass both new and once fired fl sized brass. Need to do some more system checks before I blame the action and / or it’s components but I’m suspicious of the bolt. Checking the fx120i today but that will likely be inconclusive. I’ve been wrong before though....
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Just checked the scale to the previously calibrated weight. Received reading was 99.994. Yeah not the scale.
Here’s a photo for reference. A little hard to see without zoomage.
**Edit with better picture of the 39.2 grain loaded brass**
Attachments
How many rounds on the barrel? Could be a carbon ring has formed and is causing you to hit the pressure edge.
Just went through this on my 6cm (not a Curtis). About 800 rounds on the barrel and started blowing primers out of no where with factory Hornady 108 ELD Match. Cleaned the neck/throat with a 7mm nylon brush and Boretech and the issue completely went away.
Just spend some time spinning the brush in the throat area, just before you get resistance from the rifling, and let the solvents work. Hope it helps...
So far I’ve got 300ish through the tube with a few cleanings. Full copper and carbon after first 100.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll give that a shot. I’m certainly hoping there is an easy fix. It’s a lot cheaper than a new barrel resulting from a replaced bolt that may or may not headspace the same. Hopefully I can get back to the range soon to give an update.
Mine actually developed pressure signs too just like you were saying. I assumed it was a barrel issue, but maybe not
Did you go through the tip that @Aaron47pb provided?
New barrel, at the 300 round mark you're getting unexplained high pressure. What makes you think the bolt is causing the issue? Any changes to the bolt? Have you recently removed and reinstalled the barrel?
Because I replaced the firing pin after damaging the other during a cleaning and am wondering if perhaps it is undersized and the harmony between the firing pin hole and firing pin has been disrupted.
I have removed and replaced the barrel recently yes. Not to sound too ignorant but what could that do to cause issue? I am no longer using the set screws and have the barrel torqued on now. Not that it’s relevent but is a difference on the table.
Yes, I have cleaned the barrel thoroughly and used a bore scope to insure there is no carbon ring. This is the second barrel I've had issues with on this action. Both barrels were brand new benchmarks
Shit. Did you talk to CC about it?
I haven't talked to them about the barrel. I only talked to the people who cut the barrel since I assumed that's where the problem is. I've only talked to CC about the extractor issues
You mentioned second barrel. Same cutter for both barrels?
Yes, they were both benchmark barrels cut by Alamo Precision for Jake Vibbert
I don't think the firing pin would cause the high pressure. The reason I asked about the barrel change is if you are now torquing the barrel, you are effectively decreasing the head space. The CC Vector tenon prints state that if you are hand tightening the barrel, the tenon length should be increased by .002". A barrel tenon cut for hand tightening is .002" longer than a barrel tenon cut for torquing. It's this way to offset the effects of thread crush.
http://www.curtiscustom.com/product/tennon-prints/
Check the head space, or reinstall the barrel hand tight and see if the high pressure condition continues.
Looking at this, that's a good point, because I've had smiths ask if I intend to use the set screws hand tight or torque it on.
You don’t think the couple thousandths difference in headspace from hand tight to torqued change is gonna change anything? Has velocity changed with pressure?
I would think if anything, it would just be a heavier bolt close - but something changed to create excess pressure. All else being the same, start with what changed.
You think I’d be hosed
On an unfired or full length sized case bolt close seemed normal as ever. Pulled the ejector and placed a piece of masking tape on the base. Not scientific by any means but got a no go.
You bring up the tenon print and I guess I thought past that. Wouldn’t I be fucked now after torquing the barrel and crushing the threads then moving to hand tight? Too at what torque level would .002 of crush happen?
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After @Praeger brought up the note from the tenon spec that’s probably the culprit. Velocity has picked up but I attested that to a more broken in barrel. I didn’t take good enough notes from the first load development to compare all the way up the ladder. This is my first rodeo so there’s that.
What the guys above have brought up may apply if you’re torquing vs hand tight with set screws.
I’m curious if that is it. I have a vector in 6 Creedmoor from Alamo and it is torqued never had barrel off but plan to get another barrel at some point. I have used switch barrel on AI with good success. From what I’ve read it’s a couple thousandths difference hand tight to torqued may be enough to get a change in pressure? from what I’ve seen just adjusting dies before that bump shoulder too much or not enough. Might even be false pressure signs if case can’t grow in chamber all the pressure could be going to bolt face.
No, the steel will flex. That won't damage it. Curtis says .002" for torque up to 100 ft/lbs. It's an easy check though, just remove and reinstall hand tight with set screws. Test same load as before. No pressure signs, that was probably the cause. If high pressure continues, I'd find a bore scope and take a close look at your chamber and bore.
I think my 6.5 barrels were cut to be torqued, but I only hand tighten them. So it’s the opposite of what the other guy does
I’ll give that a try. Thanks for bringing it up.
Could it be too much headspace then?
As an update to my post a few pages back, I went with a Straight Jacket armory prefit for my action in 6mm Creedmoor. I have to say, I could not be happier. It shoots sub half minute using Factory Hornady 108. Turnaround time was fast also. I have another barrel, a 6.5 Creed on order with them too.
What freebore did you go with?
Thanks
I was told for the 108's (match ammo or reloading) the .188 Spec works great.
I did the .184 option. I'm getting average velocities of 3030 out of a 26" shooting factory 108s. I don't plan to reload for my 6mm Creed barrel.
My action and barrel should be here in a week. I have an ARC mag and an AICS Ill be testing out. Ill let you know.
Mine ran great in a manners with dbm in 6.5 prc. Accurate mag strapless wsm mags
Depends on the chassis or bottom metal. If the magazine doesn’t have anything to stop it, with upward pressure it will over insert into the action and the lips will block the bolt.
One of the biggest reasons to use a vector is being able to use AW mags. Unless you already own a vector, I’d look into the curtis axiom. It uses the same bolt and feels about the same as the vector, and it’s aics cut.
Isn’t this only if it’s the really early ones? My #86 will run with pressure on the mag and there’s nothing in Mesa dbm to prevent over insertion.
I have had three. One with serial before yours, and the current one with a serial close to 200. Not sure on the serial of the other.
They all did/do it depending on chassis.
You’re running an aics mag with upward pressure and nothing in the dbm or chassis keeping it from over inserting??
Wild and yes I could balance the rifle on something, I could even press the rifle down on the mag and the worst it would get is feeling light resistance, never stops the bolt.
After 2000rounds and two 6.5cm barrels with my Curtis vector I’m having same unexplained severe pressure signs with low powder charge as some of the members posted above. My Peterson’s srp brass will not last more than 4 firings with less than 40.5 grains of h4350 or rl16, even with 39.8 grains of charge it shows heavy ejector mark and sticky bolt lift on 3-4 rounds out of a ten shot firing string. The primer pockets will become so loose to unusable at the 4th firing when these petersons srp brass have lasted me more than 16 firings on my tikka and ruger American with 41.7+ grains of charge, also the shoulder datum on a virgin brass measured at 1.556, after firing it becomes 1.565 when on my tikka and ruger American never measured pass 1.560 after multiple firings on hot loads. I think the chambering spec from Curtis custom is little off...... both of my barrels are set to be hand torqued, one chambered by keystone accuracy and the other one is chambered by paradigm gunworks. The other problem I’m having is the bolt stop will not last for more than 600 rounds if you cycle the bolt fast and rough like you should, I’m on my third bolt stop after 2000 rounds....... during my local match last week I pulled off my bolt completely when cycling the action lol. Curtis custom needs to do something to address these issues, becuase if you pay premium price for these actions ppl will expect to be lot more robust and problem free like the Impact 737r and the bighorn TL-3.
the zeus
Aren’t they the same as Curtis custom? Maybe just brother company with different name?
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