Anyone had a chance to play with one of these? They have the new Daniel Defense furniture, a geissele two stage trigger and I think a CL lined barrel. They're $2K and it looks and feels pretty nice, are they worth it? What do you think?
- Thread starter snipe10
- Start date
Not sure why they are calling it a mk12.
I've been waiting to see some user reviews as well. Not that I don't trust DD's product claims but I would just like to see how it's rated by end users and various firearms magazines.
I have not handled it but I do know that it's a STainless CHF barrel.
The DD line of rifles are excellent. Their attention to detail is great. I own a DDM4V5 WITH A Geissele trigger and it is the best AR I have ever owned. I say go for it, you will not be disappointed.
I also own a DD V-7 and it's a very accurate AR and is one of the best that I have owned and operated. It was my duty rifle.
N o they are not worth it... if you want a MK12, there are much better choices.
Good grief!! Another @#$%ing company whose marketing dept and execs need a swift kick in the nuts for naming something else a "Mk12." HARDLY!!
Now, with that said, and despite a less-than-appealing (cough, cough...ridiculous) MSRP of ~$2.2k and some of the fugliest furniture ever made (yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder), I hope that it will meet DD's usual levels of reliability and quality. I have run a variety of complete DD rifles and while not precision instruments, they have all been capable rifles with decent ammo and utterly reliable. Only time will tell if this "new" offering from them (their first RLGS AR if I'm not mistaken) will be even close to being worthy of consideration for "precision" applications which they seem to be touting it for.
Now, with that said, and despite a less-than-appealing (cough, cough...ridiculous) MSRP of ~$2.2k and some of the fugliest furniture ever made (yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder), I hope that it will meet DD's usual levels of reliability and quality. I have run a variety of complete DD rifles and while not precision instruments, they have all been capable rifles with decent ammo and utterly reliable. Only time will tell if this "new" offering from them (their first RLGS AR if I'm not mistaken) will be even close to being worthy of consideration for "precision" applications which they seem to be touting it for.
If you're going to spend 2000 why not a POF or get a custom maker like high caliber sales to build you an upper etc? If you are going to spend too much on an AR might as well get something unique.
I say no because the muzzle break looks cheap, no adjustable gas for that price. Street price for a Stag 3G is $1300 and the only thing you would need to replace is the brake.
You don't need an adjustable gas block on a gun with that gas system. It should run suppressed/unsuppressed fine.
If you want a killer SPR type rifle that has all the bells and whistles, look for a KAC LPR. Look quick, because they are going the way of the dodo bird. KAC Reliability and Quality with a Krieger tube.
If you want a killer SPR type rifle that has all the bells and whistles, look for a KAC LPR. Look quick, because they are going the way of the dodo bird. KAC Reliability and Quality with a Krieger tube.
Is it the barrel type that warrants the MK12 legacy? what's the similarities between this and spec rifles??
I have to believe that KAC will either make the LPR again in the near future or another similar rifle as they are/were incredibly popular.... I do wish I had one but I had bought another high end AR just before they came out.
as I questioned earlier, what makes this an MK12? I'm very familiar and owned several MOD 0 and MOD 1 builds
As stated earier in the thread, it isin't. DD is using a term to try and sell a gun, that does not even closely resemble a MK12.
It may not be built of the same parts, but is does pretty closely resemble a Mk12.
Standard AR parts/internals plus:
18" rifle length gas, SS barrel of heavier contour
12" quad rail
Improved trigger
Save for the furniture and the specific manufacturer of the components, I'd say they're more similar than dissimilar.
Ignoring the name, the MSRP of DD rifles is often quite a bit higher than street price. DD makes excellent quality barrels and components. My lightweight DD barrel is sub MOA, granted after 3 rounds it opens up. If the heavier barrel holds its group better, and the street price ends up being $1800-$2000 I think it's a pretty viable rifle for that niche.
Any one have a picture of DD's Mark 12?
I'd like to know how you know what you know. You said, "DD makes excellent quality barrels". What makes them excellent quality? Is it the advertising you have read? Is it what you have read on the internet? Is it your personal experience with accuracy, long barrel life? Please, give some details.
Thanks AvsFan!
You must have missed the part where I discussed the performance of my DD barrels. It was in the post you quoted. I'll expand:
I am a former industry guy who personally knows a lot of the major players in the AR market. There are a lot of good companies out there for sure, but based on my personal experience with their barrels compared to others of similar material/design, and my knowledge of the various manufacturers, they are top of the pack for hammer forged, chrome lined AR barrels.
Over the past 8 years I have witnessed an average of 100,000 plus rounds of 223/556 fired from AR's per year. DD barrels have also proven their reliability throughout that time.
Daniel Defense makes excellent products, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, why not have someone like Centurion Arms or High Caliber Sales build you an actual MK12?
What Daniel Defense is selling is not a MK12 - it's just a marketing thing to help them sell more guns. Just like their "MK18" and "M4A1" rifles.
Why not get the real deal? For the money Daniel Defense is asking for that rifle, you're better off building a real one and not DD's version of a real one.
Here is mine:
What Daniel Defense is selling is not a MK12 - it's just a marketing thing to help them sell more guns. Just like their "MK18" and "M4A1" rifles.
Why not get the real deal? For the money Daniel Defense is asking for that rifle, you're better off building a real one and not DD's version of a real one.
Here is mine:
So does KAC, BCM and FN. They all make HIGH quality, CHF, CL'ed and Very accurate barrels. DD is not unique
Its a 18" SS gun. Nothing MK12 about it.
Taking a 10.3inch CL barrel and slaping a different rail and different flash hider does not making that a MK18 either.
MK12 is a specific gun(s), using specific parts(s). They cheaped out on the FH, Stock, Trigger, and who knows what else. Who knows what barrel they are using anyway.
BCM does not make barrels. They sell them. I am 90% sure the same is true of KAC.
I can only speak from my own experience, but I have found DD barrels to be consistently more accurate than any other CHF CL'd barrel. That does make them unique.
If your experience says otherwise, that is fine. As I stated above, I'm running on data from about 30k rounds fired and 800k witnessed.
Just some anecdotal experiences gathered from the M4 Rifle Marksmanship Course I teach: Folks have brought AR style rifles to the range in most every brand and configuration imaginable; and, the rifle that stands out is the Colt LE6920. Their barrels without exception are so straight as to make the guns the easiest to zero, never any extreme sight adjustment just to get a BSZ. I also note that when Colt reduced the price and increased production, DD dropped their equivalent of the Colt. I am assuming that at equal pricing the folks at DD did not want to butt heads. I am also assuming that lowering the price was not in line with DD's marketing strategy, which is, without doubt, the best marketing out there. Folks obviously believe the DD propaganda and buy the product, satisfied the product will bring reality to their dreams.
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Its more of the whole "system" spec to be mk12. Generally: Specific SPR barrel profile on a 7 twist Douglas turned blank of 18" or 16" for the H variant. OPS Inc brake collar set and 12th Model can, KAC RAS free floater for the mod 1, hard to find Crane gas block, KAC front and rear sights, M84 Gasbuster, KAC bipod mount, KAC sling mount, Leupy 2x8, 3x9 MR/T 3.5x10 w/ m3 turrets on arms 32 mounts.. To me anything else is in an "ish" catagory.
Less glass, mounts and can, mine came to about $1500 for the upper. I put it on an NDS -A1 lower with -a1 furniture and a KAC two stage trigger, that ive since upgraded to a geisiele. Add about $400 there. So, about 2k should get ya a complete rifle less optics and can, but spec parts nonetheless.
I am thinking I may by buying one. Excellent reviews from those who actually own one or have tested it.
Waste of money. Call up HCS and buy one of their MK12 uppers. Or better yet, find a KAC LPR upper or gun and go to town.
Or Centurion Arms for a MK12 upper!
At msrp might be a waste. At street price of 1800 not a waste at all.
daniel defense makes excellent products, but if you're going to spend that kind of money, why not have someone like centurion arms or high caliber sales build you an actual mk12?
What daniel defense is selling is not a mk12 - it's just a marketing thing to help them sell more guns. Just like their "mk18" and "m4a1" rifles.
Why not get the real deal? For the money daniel defense is asking for that rifle, you're better off building a real one and not dd's version of a real one.
Here is mine:
^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, at 1800 a KAC SR-15 is a good deal.
The DD "MK12" does NOTHING that makes it even remotely worth it over a Colt 6920 with a FF rail strapped on it. $800 gun + $250 rail = better rifle.
DD got too big to fast and it went to their heads. Same as nightforce. Now they think their shit is made from unobtainium the way they price it.
Silencer to be technical. HP Maxim called it the silencer and he invented it after all.
That is your opinion. I haven't shot a 6920 with or without a ff rail that could hold the groups the two ddmk12's I have shot could hold. I was so impressed I bought one. still waiting on a scope so if this one shoots the same for me its money well spent.
The value will be determined by the buyer. For example I think the upper you recommended is a waste of money when I can have a complete rifle for only 300 more. To the op its your money find the value for yourself.
The value will be determined by the buyer. For example I think the upper you recommended is a waste of money when I can have a complete rifle for only 300 more. To the op its your money find the value for yourself.
That's exactly what I was going to say. I've been spying those LPR's for quite sometime. A company over on ar15.com has them in stock, right now, for 2200.00 which is a killer price for them. Not only do you get the Krieger barrel but KAC stopped making them, so I'm sure they will have a great collector's value as well.
KAC LPR Upper in the exchange right now for $1650: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-wts-new-knights-armamanet-kac-lpr-upper.html
Well something is off. Colt barrels are STRAIT. In fact, talk to some of our master class highpower shooters around here. They will tell you COLT are among the best when it comes to CL 1/7 barrels.
Never seen accuracy issues with a 6920 Barrel. They usually hovered around 1-1.5MOA with good ammo. Thats pretty solid considering the barrel.
Cobracutter,
So you mean to tell me that the DPMS Mk. 12 isn't an actual Mk. 12?
I think these companies name some of these rifles after military rifles to put them into a category (DDM4, DDMk.18, DPMS SASS, etc...). Im sure DD, DPMS, etc.... don't actually mean to attempt at making a clone or convincing buyers that they are getting an actual military rifle. I could care less what people name their rifles. But, I also don't correct everyone that says clip and not magazine either. I know what they mean.
So you mean to tell me that the DPMS Mk. 12 isn't an actual Mk. 12?
I think these companies name some of these rifles after military rifles to put them into a category (DDM4, DDMk.18, DPMS SASS, etc...). Im sure DD, DPMS, etc.... don't actually mean to attempt at making a clone or convincing buyers that they are getting an actual military rifle. I could care less what people name their rifles. But, I also don't correct everyone that says clip and not magazine either. I know what they mean.
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OP,
You might as well do it right:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/268525-wts-high-caliber-sales-mk12-mod1.html
I own a DD MK18 upper on a Noveske N4 lower that I got in trade and love it. It's reliable and accurate unsuppressed.
I have a 556 Saker on the way and plan to do a couple of carbine courses.
If I was going to buy a MK 12 I would go HCS all the way.
You might as well do it right:
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/firearms-sale/268525-wts-high-caliber-sales-mk12-mod1.html
I own a DD MK18 upper on a Noveske N4 lower that I got in trade and love it. It's reliable and accurate unsuppressed.
I have a 556 Saker on the way and plan to do a couple of carbine courses.
If I was going to buy a MK 12 I would go HCS all the way.
My guess would be trigger control issues hidden by the SSA.
Absolutely not.
Find a KAC LPR. The DD won't beat it, and if you ever decide to sell it, KAC rifles sell pronto.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Truth about AR Companies
Many sell them
Few make them
Most are part assemblers
2000.00 is a lot to pay for someone to put together basic parts
Many sell them
Few make them
Most are part assemblers
2000.00 is a lot to pay for someone to put together basic parts
